Conference taveng::bagels

    
    I live in Sudbury, MA and am a member of a Reform congregation,
    Beth El. My younger daughter, Shayna, is in Hebrew School Kindergarten.
    My older daughter, Anya, is nine and also started Hebrew School
    when she was in Kindergarten. From K-2, school is one afternoon per
    week, 3:30-5:30. The first two years emphasized beginning alphabet,
    learning about Jewish holidays, art activities(homemade seder plates
    and painted kiddush cups, etc.), songs, etc. There are also special
    events such as welcoming the new K class to the school in a ceremony
    where each child is given their own tallis(it is a joy to watch).
    
    Beginning in grade 3, school is two afternoons per week, 3:30-5:30.
    There are several books being used, one about holidays and two for
    alphabet and reading. Two afternoons per week plus soccer and Brownies
    makes for a long week, but Anya loves it, as do her friends. I credit
    the teachers for providing an excellent curriculum and pleasureable
    environment for learning. Our family participation in temple events,
    the holidays, and in keeping shabbat, I believe, make a difference
    also.
    
    My reaction to your son's situation is that he's getting a late start
    as it is. If the curriculum at the school is stimulating and fun, he'll
    want to participate, and that's half the battle when the issue is kids
    and their energy level. If he doesn't get the joy of learning about
    Judaism now, when will he?
    
    

Whether or not you send you child to Hebrew  school  or  note  depends

fundamentally  on  what  you  have  in  mind.  Do you want a Religious

education or a Jewish education?



If you want them to identify  themselves  as  Jews  (religion  aside).

Then  the  education  can  be added to the symbols you provide in your

home.



If you are not  religious  and  don't  care  if  your  child  is  more

observant than yourself than you might as well let them play outside.

I also belong to Beth El in Sudbury (9 years). I have sons 13 (8th Grade) and
9 (4th Grade). Having just gone thru a Bar Mitzvah and expecting a little push-
back from the 13 yr old about continuing in the high school, I've been 
pleasantly surprised with the opposite! The high school at Beth El meets on 
Mondays at 6:15 for dinner (pizza);at 7 and at 8, there are 1 hour classes; a
required course and an elective for each grade. Also, each student chooses a 
project for Gemilut Hassidum. My son will be a teaching assistant for the Family
Education program and helping out at a nursing home and homeless shelter. He is
adamant that he attend Hebrew School above all else. Similarly, my 9 yr old 
feels the same. He looks forward to Tuesdays and Thursdays. 

After seeing first hand how my son prepared for his Bar Mitzvah, after
participating in the Bar Mitzvah Torah class run for those families with a Bar
Mitzvah by our Rabbi (Larry Kushner), and after seeing Josh and his friends
celebrate their Bar Mitvahs over a 4 month period, I can honestly say I'm not 
sure how Beth El does it, but they are turning out a good group. Between the 
Hebrew School and the Youth Group, Josh is able to maintain his Jewish identity
in our environment.

Before someone else mentions it, I have been the School Chairman at Beth El for
2 years as well as part of its School Committee. My views may be biased. I also
attended a Hebrew Scool 5 days a week from 1st grade thru 9th grade.

Contact me if you have questions. There are other Beth El members who read these
notes and can also give their views (right, Dave? Michael)


    -Stan

    Thanks for the responses so far.  It sounds like Hebrew School may
    be a more common thing in New England than in Colorado Springs,
    from the limited sample of replies.  I'm curious to hear from
    anyone who decided *not* to send a child to Hebrew School and why,
    as well as from those who do.

    We do not believe that our kids need Hebrew School to develop a
    Jewish identity.  They get that at home, at Sunday School, and
    through various other activities.  They both (Joshua, 8, and
    Shayna, 6) have very strong Jewish identities now.

    When I picked Josh up from Hebrew School yesterday, he was very
    excited about the things they had done that day.  He doesn't view
    Hebrew School as a drag (yet).  He'll be starting musis lessons
    soon, though, and will probably be going back to his weekly
    mentorship program in a high school chem lab as well.  We'll see
    what happens as the load increases.  So far, so good.

    Sid

This is Dave signing in... I have a daughter in 6th grade and twin
boys in 4th grade. They all started Hebrew school in kindergarten.
The boys took piano lessons (private), violin lessons (at school),
and Little League last year so 2 afternoons a week of Hebrew school
led to a lot of hassles. We don't have Sunday school in Sudbury; it's
because we're all going somewhere on the weekends and don't want to be
locked into staying home on Sunday.

I don't see how children can learn enough about Judaism without Hebrew
school. There are readers of this conference who would assert that
Hebrew school, itself, is not enough and that Jewish children need to
attend Jewish day-schools.

Another Beth El parent who reads Bagels is Meredith Malmberg who also
has twins in my boy's class.

Dave

    As a follow along to .2, how would you handle the situation where the
    parent wants the child to attend Hebrew School and the child wants no
    part of it?
    
    Eric

I don't have any kids in hebrew school, but in my case (in the early/mid
70's) my parents wanted me to attend hebrew school and I wanted, after the
first few weeks, nothing to do with it at all. After three years of fighting
about it they gave in (I didn't believe in the religion and thought it a bit
hypocritical to go through with a Bar Mitzvah if I didn't believe.  BTW, 
they don't believe either - they wanted the "Jewish background").

I never regretted the decision, though some of my friends who were not
Bar/Bas Mitzvahed have since gone through with it.

    OK, I can't keep quite any longer. Here are my 2 cents worth.
    
    If kids don't go to Hebrew school, it is not the kids' fault, it is the
    parents fault. If parents try to SEND their kids to Hebrew school
    without giving them a sense for being Jewish IN THE HOME, and from
    birth, then obviously the kids won't want to go. If you want to raise
    Jewish kids, you have to show them it is important to be Jewish. This
    is not an issue of going to Hebrew school. Would you let your kids opt
    out of going to regular school? I think not.
    
    I am not trying to preach, just make a point. If you want your kids to
    grow up as Jews, you have to show them it is important to you, and NOT
    optional. Kids pick up very quickly how their parents feel, and if the
    parents are ambivalent, so are the kids. My kids go to Hewbrew school,
    and to Hebrew high school, because they know it is important and
    expected of them. They don't always go willingly, but they do go. The
    examples we set for our kids will determine how they turn out. As
    parents, we have to be aware of that and make the appropriate choices.
    
    Jack

    Hebraw School (at least as I remember it) was made up of many areas.
    Some were interesting, others were not. I majorly question the need to
    be fluent in Hebrew, something I disliked busting my buns on then and
    doubt if I remember any of it now.
    
    My point is that do you want your children to learn about religion and
    its practices, the Law around it, and be fluent in the language, or are
    the first two enough. Considering that most religions today have their
    service in the venacular, as does Reform Judaism (and I strongly doubt 
    that most Conservative Jews could translate Hebrew prayers, let alone
    read and write Hebrew as a working language), is learning Hebrew (a
    major undertaking) really necessary?
    
    Eric

    Update.  Joshua seems to be really enjoying his classes,
    particularly learning to read and write Hebrew.  As I stated
    before (I think), my kids learn about Judaism and their Jewishness
    through several channels.  Hebrew School isn't necessary for that,
    though it helps.

    I'd like my kids to be able to read and write Hebrew.  In fact, if
    we chose not to send them to Hebrew School, I would teach them
    myself.  At the risk of starting us off into a serious rathole
    here, I'd like to assert that I *dislike* services in the
    vernacular.  I much prefer services in Hebrew and I'm hesitant to
    say why in this note.  Perhaps if someone feels inclined to start
    a separate note on this, I'll throw in my two cents worth.

    In any case, the reason I want my kids to go to Hebrew School is
    to learn Hebrew.  I do not agree that the kids should have no
    say in what pursuits/activities they are signed up for, though
    making it simple matter of their choice or not does not allow for
    the rightful role of the parent as a guide.  Fortunately, it seems
    to be working out okay so far.

    Sid

    re: .10
    
    Having a child in Hebrew school and a wife teaching in two, I came to
    view the value of Hebrew school with mixed reaction.  I initially
    thought that Hebrew school will not be necessary for my son (now age 9,
    attending Kita Dalet) and will be too much a burden on his other
    activities.  As you, I too planned to teach my son Hebrew myself, but with
    his and my busy schedules, this is hard to materialize.  Besides, I came
    to realize that kids at his age need for cerain activities the group
    and the frame: it is very hard to do certain activities at home w/o other
    children of the same age and without a formal "frame" (place and time).
    Fortunately, last year he happened to have an excellent
    teacher that made them sweat and learn seriousely, and yet have fun.  He was
    swamped with work from secular school, Hebrew school and other activities,
    yet looked forward to the Hebrew school classes (3! times a week) and
    managed to be a Straight A student in all of them.  Moreover, he liked so
    much his class's "Kabalat Torah" service in the synagouge, that he wrote a 
    short assay about it in his secular's school bulletin, entitled "My most 
    important experience in the last semester."  And that's in Nashua, not
    Israel. That's what I call providing the roots and identity.
    
    My wife's experience, however, was different.  She taught in two
    temples, various classes.  Some classes were a real success,
    mainly because there was parents' participation and the children took
    the school seriously.  Others were a disaster, mainly because the parents
    could care less (e.g., nobody showed up for a teacher-parent conference),
    the principal did not provide guidelines, program, or supervision, and
    the children's attitude in general was (and I heard a few of them
    saying that explicitly): I'm here because my parents want me to be (i.e., I
    could care less) and my father wants me to be here because he attended
    Hebrew school as well.  Something akin "I'm paying taxes because I don't
    want to confront the goverment, but I hate it and I don't understand why
    I should pay."
    
    Bottom line (and that's only my personal opinion):
    If you want your children to get serious Jewish education or learn
    Hebrew very well, DON'T send them to a Hebrew school (at least not those in
    Reform or Conservative shuls).  From knowing several of those, I found out
    that not all of the teachers (and that's a polite understatement) know
    Hebrew (except for mumbling a few words and reading poorly) and many of
    them are not observant to a large extent.
    If, however, you want your children to get some exposure, on which you can
    build at home, DO send your children to a Hebrew school.  If you have a
    choice, choose one that has a dedicated principal with a basic 
    education experience, a school with a well defined curriculum, a teacher
    that knows well enough the material, and a class with parental
    participation.  I doubt whether you can find a school that rates well
    on all these parameters, but some will rate fairly well on some of these
    parameters. The better they do, the more positive your children's experience
    (and willingness to continue Hebrew education) will be.
    
    Shaike
    

    My parents enrolled me in Temple Sunday School
    when I was in the first grade. I went to class
    every Sunday, learning the basics of reading and
    writing Hebrew (as I was doing with English in
    public school) and studying the basics of the
    history (just like public school).
    
    In the 4th grade, I started going to Temple one
    afternoon per week -- Tuesday or Thursday -- plus
    the Sunday morning class. This lasted for 2 years,
    and in the 6th grade, I went on both Tuesday and
    Thursday, plus Sunday.
    
    In grades 7-9, I attended Temple school on
    Saturday morning (ending with Sabbath services),
    and Monday and Wednesday afternoons after public
    school. At the end of the 9th grade, I was confirmed.
    
    I went to a Reform temple and received one of the
    finest religious educations. Our rabbi was a strong
    advocate of ecumenical knowledge, and our Temple
    fostered strong relationships with every church in the
    city. The various church youth groups attended our
    Saturday services; in turn, we attended their Sunday
    masses -- Catholic, Protestant, Greek, Armenian, Baptist...
    Besides the ongoing Hebrew classes, we studied
    comparative religion, Jewish history, Jewish law, etc.
    
    I admit I was often bored, and very fed up with the
    social "rules" that permeated the Temple School corridors
    as did the public school corridors. But I did learn, and
    can read Hebrew and converse knowledgeably about my
    religion and other religions, as well. In 20/20 hindsight,
    I can say that I am THRILLED that my parents sent me.
    
    leah rifka
    
    

    I went to Hebrew School from age 8 to age 16 [confirmation].  I
    can't say I particularly enjoyed it, expecially since I have trouble
    with foreign languages -- I vividly remember trying to read the
    Shema in under 4 minutes to get a star on thereading goal charts.
    2 years later, the Rabbi sat with me for a few minutes and I have
    never forgotten it since!  We went three times a week, I believe,
    and I do remember being jealous of my Christian friends who only
    went once a week to catechism [sp?] classes.  I also remember saying
    that since I went, my kids were going to have to go too!
    
    Well, my oldest started kindergarten at the local temple [acton]
    last month. They start them bi-weekly in kindergarten, then weekly
    till 3rd grade. His teacher is great, I sit across the hall during
    his class and listen.  He's excited about both Hebrew and regular
    school equally -- I hope it lasts!  
    
    I talked to his teacher recently, and she said it was interesting how 
    not too many of the kids in the class seemed to know much about their 
    religion.  I know, they're only 5 and 6.  But Jaime's been to services 
    already, he helps light candles, he adores the Shalom Sesame tapes, he 
    went to Holiday School for two years.  And he's not rebelled yet:>)[i
    know the time will come...]  I myself was not Bat Mitzvahed, partially
    due    to my uncomfortable-ness with Hebrew, partially because in
    the early 60s it wasn't as 'in' as it is now, but was confirmed; I won't
    push him to be confirmed nor our daughter to be Bat Mizvahed when
    the time comes -- those are decisions they can make then.
    
    I feel that Hebrew school is good in that it re-emphasizes what
    they learn at home.  In some instances it might be ALL that they
    learn.  It's not for everyone.
    
    /sandy
    when they then go twice a week.