Conference taveng::bagels

Hi Nancy,

It's very nice of you to go to such lengths to accommodate your kosher
guests!  Here are some of the answers to your questions; I'm sure people
will jump in and correct me if I get something wrong.

You asked about getting a new hibachi.  Yes, a new hibachi is "immediately
kosher;" there's nothing you need to do to it.  Very observant people would
probably "tovel" their own spatula, but I don't know of anyone who would be
picky about that at a guest's house; a new spatula should be just fine.  A
new sponge is also necessary.

You can get kosher hotdog and hamburger rolls, as well as kosher pickles,
ketchup, relish, and potato chips.  There are several different symbols to
signify the kashrut of a product: OU (a U in a circle); KVH (the letters
are intertwined) is the Boston hechsher or certification; OK (K in a
circle) are some of the most common.  Depending upon the level of
observance of the people you're inviting, just a "K" might not be
sufficient.  Make sure that none of these things say "Dairy" -- if the
products are dairy, your guests won't be able to eat them along with the
meat.  They should all be "pareve," that is, free of both meat and milk.

The easiest bet with potato salad, coleslaw, macaroni salad, etc, is to get
them from a kosher restaurant or shop.  Kosher mayonaise is available, but
making the food at your home will be tricky if you don't keep kosher.  Again,
even if you get the side dishes at a kosher place, make sure that they're
not dairy.

For the corn on the cob, butter won't work, but PAREVE margarine will.
Make sure to check that it's pareve--a lot of people assume that margarine
is always pareve, but many companies add milk these days.  Mazola makes a
good pareve margarine, among other companies.   Also, how were you planning
on cooking the corn?  If you're going to boil it, you might need a new pot,
too--again, this depends on the levels of observance of your guests.
    
    >The cake I'll get from a kosher bakery and I'll make sure that it
    >doesn't have milk in either the cake or frosting.

That's fine.  And for the coffee, you can use Rich's or something
similar--anything that doesn't have milk.


Hope that answered most of it.  A lot of it does depend on how observant
your guests are: some people just avoid non-kosher meat, some don't eat
anything hot unless it's kosher, some don't eat anything at all unless it's
kosher...  Another thought: you might want to serve the margarine, chips,
etc. in their original wrappers, just so that people know they're kosher.

    A Kosher BBQ is probably one of the easiest meals to make.
    
    Fern did a excellent job of answering your questions but I thought
    I might add a few extra points.
    
     1. A gas Grill can be koshered if you turn the gas up to high for 1
    hour.  Use a brand new spatula.  If you wash the spatula before using
    use a brand new sponge and make sure that you dish washing detergent
    has an OU mark on it.  Most major brands do. 
    
    2. If you buy the products from a deli make sure that it is certified
    Kosher for meat.
    
    3.  Hamburgers are not a problem.  Best to get them at a Kosher
    butcher and verify that the meat was koshered before grinding but
    since you are cooking over an open flame this isn't a requirement.
    
    4.  The cake may be a problem.  Few bakeries provide parve cakes
    as they use dairy products in many of their other goodies and don't
    separate the utensils.  Fruit might be a better alternative.

    5.  For coffee there are several brands of lightener such as Coffee 
    Rich which are OU and Parve. 

    6.  As for potato chips.  Most major brands are marked Kosher.  
    Frito-Lay and Eagle brands are marked.  Eagle brand seems to have the 
    widest selection of Kosher snacks and all I have seen are OU.

    Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

    Warren
    

Corn can be done on the hibachi - un-husked.  Just keep turning 
for 15 minutes.  Or, you can husk the corn, wrap in foil, and 
put it on the hibachi.

Sara

    I prefer Fleishmann's to Mazola (:-).  As for potato chips Cape
    Cod has an OU and besides they're the best.
    
    David

    Although the suggestions offered in the previous replies were
    relatively thorough, and technically it could all be done, I think
    that you would be well advised to contact your kosher guests before
    you go to all that trouble. I have seen people go to great lengths
    in this  regard, only to be embarrassed, insulted, and angered by
    their guests not feeling comfortable with the food. 
    In truth, there are many, many details to keep track of, and someone
    doing it for the first time might inadvertantly overlook something.
    People who have been keeping kosher all their lives quite often
    will goof and find themselves having to re-kasher their dishes,
    or worse. 
    If the guests are strictly observant, you might invite them over
    to help you out with the kashering process, as well as the buying
    of the food itself. Alternately, the best solution would be to buy
    completely packaged food from a strictly kosher restaurant (that
    they approve of) for the guests in question.
    None of this should be construed as not "trusting" you. But just
    as in any other arena one needs time to watch and absorb new
    techniques, so too in this matter. 
    I hope the experience is enlightening, and lots of fun!! (All this
    talk of hamburgers is getting me hungry...)
    -Jeremy
    

I would second the advice in .5.

There are many different ways in which people "keep kosher".  Some would
compromise and go along with whatever arrangements the host makes, while
others would prefer not to eat cooked food out at all.  The best thing
to do is *ask* the guests what kind of food arrangements they would feel
comfortable with.

If I were going to a barbecue at the home of someone who doesn't keep kosher,
I would prefer a setup where soyburgers or fresh fish are available, barbecued
over aluminum foil.  This would make a separate grill unnecessary.  It would 
also make it much simpler in that nobody would have to worry about which 
ingredients are dairy or not.  So-called "nondairy" creamers often contain 
ingredients that are dairy according to the rules of kashrut, e.g. sodium 
caseinate or whey extracts.  The same is true of bread and rolls.

Another person would have a different opinion!  That's why finding out what 
the guests would want is the best way to handle this.

    Well, my friends, your responses have really helped me.  Thank you.
    
    Some of you have written me personally and offered to help me over
    the telephone; for those I haven't had a chance to call, I apologize.
    I've been very busy these past few days.
    
    You've brought up some points that I hadn't thought of.  Such as
    what am I going to cook the corn in? (No, we don't have different
    pots for milk and meat dishes.)  Similarly, this led me to think
    of what I will use to cut things with.  (No, we don't have separate
    knives for milk and meat dishes.)  I also hadn't realized that some
    margarines aren't parev. 
    
    My heart is in the right place, but this is more involved than I
    realized.   I'll take your advice; I'll call my friends and ask them 
    about their levels of keeping kosher.
    
    If I have more questions once I speak to my friends, I'll be back
    for more help.
    
    In the meantime... thank you!
    
    Nancy 
                

    It's probably too late, but just for the record:
    
    You have to be careful with non-dairy creamers, especially the powdered
    ones.  As was said in -.6 you have to watch out for sodium caseinate, a
    milk derivative that's considered dairy.  Many of these creamers
    are U-O, but they're still dairy.
    
    Almost without exception (Ta-am Tov being the only exception I know
    of) all kosher powdered non-dairy creamers are milchig. 

    Re: -1
    
    
    Most of the liquid ones are marked OU Parve; such as Coffee Rich.
    
    

    re:.8, etc.
    It's kind of curious that milk-derived casein can be heckshered
    parve, but if the O-U thinks it is then maybe it is!  I suspect
    it has to do with the fact that it has been a) chemically transformed
    and b) dried.  The latter has been used (in some interpretations)
    to count animal-derived rennet as parve, if it was dried out in
    processing.
    
    Are there any non-casein creamers?

re .10:

>    It's kind of curious that milk-derived casein can be heckshered
>    parve, but if the O-U thinks it is then maybe it is!

    But it isn't!  The non-dairy creamers that contain sodium caseinate
    are marked dairy (how's that for an oxymoron).  Rich's liquid creamer
    doesn't contain sodium caseinate and is marked parve.