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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

571.0. "Quiz Time" by GRECO::FRYDMAN (wherever you go...you're there) Fri Oct 28 1988 12:21

An interesting "quiz" came over  soc.culture.jewish  yesterday. I thought
    it might foster some interesting discussion.  I've copied it without
    permission.
    
    
    
 
Several years ago [people] received a 'quiz' at a national Hadassah
convention.  It's purpose was to demonstrate that many Jews are more
familiar with non-Jewish subjects than with Judiasm.
 
These are adapted from the 'quiz', which was prepared by Rabbis Jack Reimer,
Steven Riskin, and Arnold Turetsky.
 
 
- Name three of the 4 Gospels.
- Name 4 books of the 5 books of Moses.
 
- Who was the mother of Jesus?
- Who was the mother of Moses?
  - (- if too hard, who was Moses' wife? 
          ok, ok, - name one of Moses' children )
 
 
-  To what town did the 3 wise men go?
-  To what town did Jonah go?
 
- Who was the first Pope?
- Who was the first king of Israel?
 
- Which of the following (if any) are from the Hebrew Bible?
  - The witch of Endor
  - Shadrack, Mishack and Abendigo
  - Satan
  - The angel Michael
  - The book(s) of Chronicles
 
- Name the president of Egypt
- Name the president of Israel
 
- Under which astrological sign were you born?
- In what Hebrew month were you born?
 
- What does 'trinity' mean?
- What does 'midrash' mean?
 
- Who wrote "Gone with the Wind?"
- Who wrote "Guide for the Perplexed?"
 
- What are your parents' Hebrew names?
 
- How many lines in a sonnet?
- How many letters in the Hebrew alphabet?
 
- When did Socrates live?
- When did Rabbi Akiva live?
 
- Name 5 baseball players
- Name 5 of the 12 tribes of Israel
 
- Name 3 professional football quarterbacks
- Name the 3 major prophets
 
- What happened to Columbus in 1492?
- What happened to the Jews in 1492?
 
- Who am I?  I am one of the most famous and well-known  of
anyone mentioned in the Bible.  But I almost was killed as an
infant.  You see, where my parents lived, the king decided to kill
all male infants.  But my family got me away in time, and I
grew up to be very famous, indeed.  Who am I?
 
------------------------
 
As the authors of the original quiz stated, the answers aren't
offerred here.  Nor are they particularly hard questions.
The incentive is to encourage Jewish study.
 
As a guide here, if you are quite confident in your answers, you're
probably right.  If you are thinking, "what's the big deal, the
answers are all obvious"  there is a big deal:   as the authors of
the original quiz said, significant numbers of Jews will "flunk" this
quiz.   If you are Jewish, don't know many answers, and think this
is a dumb quiz, I encourage you to at least try to learn a bit more
about Judaism. It can't hurt.
-- 
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
571.1In 1492 Isabella did both Columbus and the JewsDECSIM::GROSSWanted: inane comment to fill this slotWed Nov 16 1988 17:5630
> - What happened to Columbus in 1492?
> - What happened to the Jews in 1492?

Just this year I got tired of viewing myself as an uneducated Jew so I picked
up a volume of Jewish history that has been gathering dust in my bookshelf
and started reading the story of the Maranos. That is how I came to know what
happened to the Jews in 1492. It's a fascinating story and since I might not
be the only one who (at least until recently) does not know about it, I shall
enter the answer to this question.

The Maranos of Spain had been forcibly converted to Christianity by an over-
zealous clergy under threat of death or torture. Most Maranos converted only to
save themselves and their families and practiced Judaism in secret (secret
because, as "Christians", they could be punished for heresy). Queen Isabella
was not a native Spaniard and, unlike most Spanish aristocrats of that era, she
hated Jews. She convinced Ferdinand that the Maranos would never become good
Christians while they were receiving support from the resident Jewish community.
In 1492 the Jews were expelled from Spain and were required to leave their
property behind. Shortly thereafter, Isabella brought the inquisition into Spain
to catch and punish any Maranos who engaged in any Jewish practices whatever.

Isabella's daughter, Isabella II, became queen of Portugal where she did for
the Portugese Jews and the Portugese Maranos (and those Jews who had fled from
Spain to Portugal) what her mother had done for the Spanish Jews.

I was terribly moved by this history. There is a lot more gory detail. We Jews
inspired so much hate. It helps explain why such a thing as the Holocaust was
ever possible.

Dave
571.2More on the InquisitionTAVIS::SIDSat Nov 19 1988 14:2424
Re .1:

Here are a couple of interesting side-notes about the Inquisition
that I thought I would point out. 

1. The term Marano is actually a derogatory term, which I think
means pig.  Unfortunately, I can't think of another term which
succinctly means Jews-who-were-forcibly-converted-and-practiced-
their-religion- in-secret, so I guess Marano will have to do.  In
Hebrew they are called Anusim, which simply means "forced". 

2. There have been many cases of modern citizens of Spain, who are
Christians in all their practices, but still maintain mysterious
family traditions such as lighting candles in the cellar, etc.;
actions which they themselves cannot explain.  There is also a
wonderful story by Elie Weisel (I got the impression it was true,
but I'm not sure) about a Spaniard he meets who turns out to be
such a descendent.  The story, "Testament of a Jew from Saragosa" is 
found in his book, _Legends of our Time_. 

3. Did you know that there is still a law on the books in Spain
which makes it a capital offense for a Jew to set foot in that
country? Nobody ever bothered to repeal the law.  Are there any
Spanish Bagelnoters who care to comment?
571.3where some wentVINO::WEINERSamSat Nov 19 1988 19:206
    re .2
    Sometime this past summer, NPR had a story on some decendants of
    the Maranos who now live in the American Southwest (New Mexico?).
    See note 445.
    
    
571.4And in Mexico, tooSLSTRN::RADWINMon Nov 21 1988 08:475
    During the mid-1960s, another group of apparent Marano descendents
    was discovered in a small Mexican village.  The people practiced
    many Jewish customs and rituals without realizing that the practices
    were Jewish.  A group of young American Jews visited to provide the 
    villagers with a more complete understanding of Judiasm.
571.5Jewlery Story My EyeUSACSB::SCHORRMon Nov 21 1988 09:545
    There are many who believe that Columbus's trip was financed with
    wealth confiscated from the Jews when they were forced to leave
    Spain.
    
    WS
571.61492 from another point of viewWATCH::STCLAIRDoug St. ClairMon Nov 21 1988 11:3030
    
    I had an interesting insight to the questions regarding The experiences
    of 1492.  At one time I was taking an adult education class at Temple
    Emanual in Newton and the topic was the Kole Nidre prayer.  I decided
    to ask a Catholic Priest for his perception of the prayer and our
    discussion moved to Catholic Spain in the 1400s.  His insights as,
    I remember them were as follows (and he qualified his answer by
    saying "I'm not a scholar I'm simply a Parish Priest.").
       
    He remembered being taught that there were three major religons
    represented in Spain at that time Islam, Jew, and Christian.  The
    Catholics asked all to leave or convert.  Many Jews (Maranos) and Muslums
    (Mariscos sp?) left.  However, some elected to stay and convert.
    Many of these were wealhy and established and to leave would have
    ment financial loss.  Of this group many did not truly convert and
    remained secretly true to their former religion.  Some of these false 
    converts rose in power and respect in the Church.  When they were
    found out the Church has real problems.   For example the weddings,
    christening, etc. performed by false priests were invalid and the
    duplicity damaged others. It seems that more Jews than Muslums fell
    into this catagory of false convert.
    
    It is an interesting scenario.  I would like to hear an impartial
    history that presented a balanced point of view and also communicated
    an understanding of the attitudes of the times in which the events
    occured. Its hard to understand these events with only the "facts"
    and none of their contempary context from the time of there occurance.
    
    
                                                       
571.7Marranos and ConversosRABBIT::SEIDMANAaron SeidmanTue Nov 22 1988 12:2219
    RE: 571.2


    >1. The term Marano is actually a derogatory term, which I think
    >means pig.
    
    I believe the Jews who elected conversion to Catholicism were termed
    "conversos," but those who attempted to maintain their Judaism in
    secret were called "marranos" by the Spaniards.  It was a deliberate
    term of derision.
    
    As a side note, a certain number of conversos who were engaged in trade
    and were later able to extricate themselves from Spain made their way
    to Holland, where they found it to their advantage to resume a Jewish
    identity.  The (predominately Protestant) Dutch, who had won freedom
    from Spain after a bitter struggle, were much more amenable to doing
    business with Jews than with Catholics.
    
    					Aaron 
571.8Spain in 1492 was _grim_DECSIM::GROSSWanted: inane comment to fill this slotTue Nov 22 1988 17:2325
I rechecked my source book and found I made a minor error. The inquisition came
to Spain before the Jews were ejected, not after. Also, the deadline for
leaving Spain was TishB'av of 1492.

My source book claims that, though some Jews converted in order to stay, others
converted to escape mob violence. Over and over again (and not just in Spain),
Jews were falsely accused of celebrating Passover with child murder and of
desecration of Hosts. There were also claims that the Talmud contained heretical
statements concerning Christianity. Whole communities would be thrown in prison.
Roving monks preached violence toward the Jews. There were 3 individuals
claiming to be Pope at that time. The Pope in Rome generally supported the Jews
but his influence was low. Another claimant to be Pope resided in Spain
(France??) and thought he could increase his influence if he could convert the
Jews.

Overall, that period of history was a low point for Christianity. Islamic
persons were also forced to leave Spain; however, the treatment of Islamic
refugees was no where near as bad as the treatment of Jews for fear of
revenge from nearby African/Islamic nations. Jews who left Spain by sea were
penniless and subject to the whims of their ship's captain.

My source book does not mention Holland as a Jewish destination. The luckiest
Jews went to Turkey. France had already forbidden Jews to live there. The
unlucky ones went to Portugal. A few years later the Jews were ejected from
Portugal and were forced to leave their _children_ behind.
571.9Interesting readingBOLT::MINOWRepent! Godot is coming soon! Repent!Wed Nov 23 1988 12:075
Several chapters in Michner's fictional history of the Jews, The Source,
deal with Spain and the Marranos.

M.
 
571.10Some historic remarks on the MarranosTAVIS::JUANThu Dec 01 1988 04:1680
    A very good reference on the subject of Marranos is C. Roth's "History
    of the Marranos". Other sources - a bit old perhaps - include S.
    Dubnow master piece "History of the Jewish People" (Geschichte fun
    Yddishn Folk - written in Yddish, before the war).
    
    The term Marrano is the colloquial Spanish for pig. It is supposedly
    an allusion to the fact that the "conversos" or "New Christians"
    (Cristianos Nuevos) kept on rejecting pork as part of their diet.
    The word CHUETA in the Balearic islands also means pigs and was
    used as a nickname for descendant of converse Jews. There is however
    a Hebrew etimology to the word Marrano (even if it does not seem
    to be plausible to me), according to which Marrano is "Mar Anus"
    or Mr. Forced-One (to leave Judaism).
    
    By 1450 Spain was finishing the Reconquista, reconquering the Southern
    Regions from the last Caliphs from Granada. This was the end of
    the great wave of invasions of Europe by the Moslems, stopped by
    Martell in France and followed by the slow reconquering of "Spain"
    for a period of 600 years. Two kingdoms, Castilla and Aragon were
    bound by the marriage of their kings, Fernando of Aragon and Isabel
    of Castilla - and by this marriage of kingdoms they built the basis
    for Spain: They set to unite Spain under their rule. After conquering
    Granada and as a political move to force unity under their rule
    they forbade for "infidels" to live in their kingdom - this included
    Jews and Moslems.
    
    The date for the Jews to leave Spain, August 1492, happened to fall 9th
    Av. It is worth to mention that this was important enough to be
    recorded by Columbus as a milestone when he begun his report about
    the discovery of the new way to the "Indies".
    
    For a long time the Catholic Church had an institution, called
    Inquisition, whose charter was to enquire about the heresies that
    came to light within the Church. The Inquisition worked against
    Arrians and other heresies that questioned the main dogmas of
    Catholicism. According to its charter it could only work on erratic
    Christians.
    
    When the number of converse Jews begun to increase, due to "pogroms",
    forced conversions and economic interests, the Inquisition begun
    to resent the presence of Jews that could influence or perhaps help
    their brethen to return to Judaism. As such the Inquisition lobbied
    with the Queen to convince her on the necessity to expell Jews that
    could stain the souls just saved from Hell...
    
    In Spain the Decree was clear enough: as of xx August 1492 no infidels
    were to live in the Realm. The option was: to convert - more or
    less sincerely and stay; or look for new horizons. Many left for
    Portugal, Italy, Turkey, Israel, etc. Others - such as the Santangel
    family, ministers and bankers, found that by converting they got
    a legitimization of their position and an open gate to nobility.
    Most converses changed their names, receiving as patronims the name
    of the saint in which day they were baptized (Santamaria, San Martin,
    etc.), other kept hints of where did they come from (Barrio=quarter,
    meaning from the Jewish quarter) or a few proud ones, that kept
    their Jewish names - as the Santangel.
    
    The Jews that left Spain took with them their skills and economic
    influence - some say their departure was source of the Spanish decline
    in the XVI Century. Those leving for Porugal had a somber luck:
    Here the daughter of Isabel was engaged with the Heir to the throne,
    but put a condition that she wouldn't put her feet on a country
    full of infidels.
           
    The king of Portugal had a dilemma: to loose his good Jewish subjects
    or to loose the most powefull alliance of the time. The solution
    was to expell the Jews, giving a single date and port of departure:
    Lisbon. On the day of the expulsion, all children were taken away
    from their parents and converted, the parents had to choose between
    conversion and death. Some fell "Al kiddush HaShem" and most accepted
    the conversion. Since hardly this conversion was willing, in the
    next centuries to be a "Portugues" in Latin America was an euphemism
    for secret Jew.
    
    The number of martirs by the Spanish and Portuguese forced Jews
    is very large - undoubtly they wrote a golden page of heroism in
    the history of the Jewish people.
     
    
    to the Queen 
571.11NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Thu Dec 01 1988 11:275
re .10:

Thank you, Juan, for an interesting note.  One question, though.
You say the Santangel family kept their Jewish name, but it sounds like
Saint <something> to me.  Could you explain?
571.12BOLT::MINOWRepent! Godot is coming soon! Repent!Thu Dec 01 1988 15:233
According to the Hebrew Calendar program, 9-Av-5252 was Thursday, 2-Aug-1492.

Martin.
571.13The pogroms began in 1369DECSIM::GROSSWanted: inane comment to fill this slotFri Dec 02 1988 15:1416
My history book gives the derivation of "Marrano" from the Spanish word
"maranatha" which means damned.

The treatment of Jews in Spain was far superior to any other European country
until the year 1369 when the Jews backed the losing side in a civil war. In
the early 1300's the "Black Death" plagues hit Europe. Jews in France and
Germany were accused of causing the plague by poisening the water. Riots
occurred in many places and many Jews were murdered, but NOT in Spain. After
1369 Jews were required to wear the Jewish badge in Spain and the pogroms
began, worsening thru the year 1492.

In Spain Jews were the bankers, doctors, international traders, and
essentially all the middle-class. The king's phyician and the chief financial
officer were usually Jewish.

Dave