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| Title: | BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest |
| Notice: | 1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration |
| Moderator: | SMURF::FENSTER |
|
| Created: | Mon Feb 03 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Thu Jun 05 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 1524 |
| Total number of notes: | 18709 |
438.0. "DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH" by PRSIS4::ROZENBLUM () Wed Mar 16 1988 09:52
<<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMANWORK1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BAGELS.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Jewish Singles:#128 Directory:#280 Register: #32 >-
================================================================================
Note 446.0 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 50 replies
NATASH::LUTWAK 18 lines 19-FEB-1988 12:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have just learned that DECworld will be held from September 12-23rd.
September 12th is first day of Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur begins
the evening of the 20th.!!
I find this to be an appalling lack of sensitivity by the corporation
as there will be lots of people from Digital heading to Cannes
who will be expected to be there on September 12th!!
The company would not have chosen its first day of DECworld to
begin either on Easter or Christmas.
I'm thinking of sending a memo to KO, Jack Shields and John Sims
on this -- a protest if you will.
Any thoughts?
Susan
================================================================================
Note 446.1 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 1 of 50
ULTRA::OFSEVIT 12 lines 19-FEB-1988 13:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably too late to get it changed, since by the time
the schedule is announced many major plans have probably already
been made, e.g., exhibition space, travel, hotels.
It would be worth going up the ladder rather than starting at
the top and find out who made the decision on the date. That's
who really needs to know that they blew it.
The best you can probably hope for is that they learn from the
mistake and don't do it again.
David
================================================================================
Note 446.2 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 2 of 50
FSLENG::CHERSON "Birth, School, Work, Death" 6 lines 19-FEB-1988 13:45
-< Who made the mistake? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: .0
If the company made this mistake, then I'm surprised. If it was
the French, then I'm not.
David
================================================================================
Note 446.3 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 3 of 50
CADSYS::REISS "Fern Alyza Reiss" 16 lines 19-FEB-1988 14:16
-< send the letter >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with David: It's probably too late to get it changed now,
and the best you can hope for is more sensitivity and/or awareness
next time. And it's probably more politic to go up the ladder rather
than starting at the top. But you might want to think about sending
a letter to someone at the top of the ladder too; otherwise, people
might change positions, and you could end up with the same
insensitivity down the road.
If you think this kind of letter (expressing regret and hopeful
that it won't recur) would be more effective signed by more people
whom if affects, maybe you could post the letter here and we could
add signatures? It's also something that should be brought up at
the next "Valuing Differences" forum.
--Fern
================================================================================
Note 446.4 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 4 of 50
JACOB::SWARTOUT 17 lines 24-FEB-1988 14:30
-< Register a complaint/regrets? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also agree that it is probably too late to get the dates changed
but it may indeed be worthwhile to register some kind of complaint
or regret so that it doesn't happen again.
re: .3 second paragraph
I also agree that such a letter may have more validity or power
with multiple signatures, etc. If such an effort is begun, would
be more than willing to add my signature, opinions and what all.
I would be interested, for curiousity's sake, to know who/which
group did make the decision.
Regards,
Adrianna
================================================================================
Note 446.5 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 5 of 50
BAGELS::SREBNICK "It works better if you plug it in" 22 lines 24-FEB-1988 17:14
-< Offer some help, too. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I might also suggest a helpful and explanatory tone to your letter.
Part of your letter might explain why these holidays are important.
Explain that it is prohibited to work on such holidays, and explain
what "work" really means (such as you can; I've worded many such
letters and would be happy to give you some help). Also, you may
include a calendar of important Jewish holidays for the next few years,
and offer to update it as necessary. If you suggest that it be
rescheduled, don't forget to tell the powers that be about Sukkot.
DECworld will have to be pushed to October 4 to avoid conflict w/those
holidays.
I get upset when things like this happen, but let's face facts.
Non-Jews don't have the same prohibitions on their holidays that we do
on ours. It just doesn't occur to non-Jewish (and unfortunately, some
Jewish) people that religious holidays could possibly preclude the
possibility of people attending seminars. Non-Jewish people can ride
and travel and stop in at the office and write (etc...) on their
holidays.
I am generous enough to believe that the DECworld schedule was a result
of ignorance, not malice.
================================================================================
Note 446.6 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 6 of 50
CADSYS::RICHARDSON 22 lines 25-FEB-1988 12:41
-< we're not the only ones >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, not all non-Jewish groups travel, work, etc., on their
own holidays either: I had a girlfriend in grade school through
high school whose family came from some very right-wing (well, that's
how *I* would describe it, anyhow) Christian sect - I don't know
what the name of this group is; they came from Ohio if that is a
clue - she and her parents were notmembers of that religion themselves,
but her cousins, etc., were. None of the rest of us were allowed
to meet the cousins when they were visiting because we were neither
faily members nor members of their religion, and on their holidays
they did not travel or even put on clothing; they had complete days
of rest. According to my friend, they spent their religious holidays
sitting around in their bathrobes and slippers reading their Bibles
and other religious texts (I think they DID turn light switches
on and off and stuff like that, though; those things don't fall
into most non-Jewish people's definitions of "work"). I also think
most of their holidays fell on Sundays anyhow. The only time I
ever even saw these people was at my friend's wedding, but they
would didn't talk to any of the guests except those related to them
(certainly not to Jewish guests :-) -- it was a about the strangest
wedding I'd ever been to). So, it's not just us.
================================================================================
Note 446.7 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 7 of 50
CALLME::MR_TOPAZ 20 lines 25-FEB-1988 14:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This issue ought to be brought to the attention of the Valuing
Differences people. Even then, though, it could be an extremely
difficult issue for them to resolve -- where should we ask that
the line be drawn?
It's reasonable to expect that a large percentage of Jews, both
customers and employees, would be unable to attend a company
function scheduled on Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur. In all
likelihood, a decidedly smaller number would decline to attend
company functions scheduled on other holidays. Are Jewish
employees, as a group, justified in asking that events not be
scheduled on Sukkot or Pesach, even though only a relatively
small percentage of them (who represent only a small percentage
of DEC employees) do not work on those holidays? (This isn't a
rhetorical question, by any means.) Has anyone ever objected to
company-sponsored functions (meetings, DECUS or INDECUS sessions)
that were scheduled on Friday afternoons, within a half-hour of
sundown?
--Mr Topaz
================================================================================
Note 446.8 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 8 of 50
CADSYS::REISS "Fern Alyza Reiss" 25 lines 26-FEB-1988 09:09
-< sure, tell 'em >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-.1
>Has anyone ever objected to company sponsored functions that were
>sponsored on Friday afternoons?
Sure. I don't make a *big* deal out of it, but when there is
something--a meeting, a class, frequently a social event--scheduled
for Friday afternoon, I make people aware of it. If it's something
in my group, I ask if there's another time it could be held. Everyone
in my group is aware of my observance and they're good about scheduling
around me. If it's a larger group that's involved, I don't ask
for it to be rescheduled, but I do give my reason for declining--along
the lines of, "Gee, I wish I could make it, but I'm Sabbath observant
and so I'm not able to do (fill-in-the-blank) on late Friday
afternoons; I need to be home by sundown...If it were held earlier
in the day or another day next time..."
If this is already scheduled, it may indeed be too much to expect
that it be rescheduled at this date, but it should certainly be
made known to the Valuing Differences people. Where to draw the
line in terms of holidays-less-widely-observed is a difficult issue,
but that is precisely the kind of issue which Valuing Differences
is supposed to address.
/Fern
================================================================================
Note 446.9 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 9 of 50
BUFFER::FROMME "SAA, not in my lifetime !" 13 lines 26-FEB-1988 10:07
-< The Digital way >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: .7
The "Valuing Differences people" which is a board made up of various
upper management representatives, did discuss this issue. They decided
that whatever date they picked, ( they had three two week periods
to choose from ) it would interfere with someone's religious holiday.
Therefore, they decided that the dates for DECWorld would remain
as scheduled. By the way, the chairman of the Valuing Differences
board is a Jew !
Please, don't flame at me, I am not on the board and do not agree
with their decision.
================================================================================
Note 446.10 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 10 of 50
GRECO::FRYDMAN "wherever you go...you're there" 11 lines 26-FEB-1988 11:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I certainly understand that it is difficult to schedule around the
various Tishri "holy days"; however, it might have been appropriate to
announce the dates aknowledging the date conflict and publically
stating that any one-day exhibits, unique seminars, and special
programs would not be held on those specific days.
There were those kinds of guidelines when I was in college...no
exams were to be scheduled on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. On the
other holidays (Sukkot, Pesach, and Shavuoth) I was always able
to take a make-up or alternate date exam.
================================================================================
Note 446.11 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 11 of 50
DIEHRD::MAHLER "Mordecai ben Moshe" 18 lines 26-FEB-1988 11:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is all well taken, but do you all really expect that "DEC"
[in the puritan-ical sense of the word] will work around Jewish
holidays? But then, with the size of "The Company", what's true in
one place might not be in another. Physics doesn't apply here and
Semetic Physics definitely won't. As in any other cult, be sure you
give up your beliefs and ethics and follow the greater whole. We'd
all be much happier right? It's attitudes like "This issue outa be
resolved or brought to the attention of someone" or "This is really
a bad situation, isn't it" that are contributing to the "final
solution". Just sit back and relax and let the world pass by. After
all, someone *else* is going to see that things "fit" in the "right"
way. It's happened in the past. Surprising it doesn't happen more
often inside these clover covered walls. Or does it? Maybe it does
and no one notices. Worse, it DOES and no one stands their ground!
Our Americana is showing.
================================================================================
Note 446.12 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 12 of 50
DIEHRD::MAHLER "Mordecai ben Moshe" 9 lines 26-FEB-1988 11:39
-< Valuing Differences my tuchus. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
� This issue ought to be brought to the attention of the Valuing
� Differences people.
That's *real* big of ya. Musta have taken loads of effort to
provide us with that omniscient overview. What a leap of faith [In a
reasonable large percentage justifiable non-rhetorical kind of way]!
Tell me Mr. System Manager, what are YOU doing to see that the voice
of your bretheren doesn't wither? Having a bagel brunch maybe?
================================================================================
Note 446.13 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 13 of 50
CADSYS::REISS "Fern Alyza Reiss" 21 lines 26-FEB-1988 14:40
-< Wazza problem? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This issue ought to be brought to the attention of the Valuing
>> Differences people
> That's *real* big of ya. Musta taken loads of effort to provide
> us with that omniscient overview. Tell me Mr. System Manager, what
> are YOU doing...
Hey, lighten up Michael! :~)
First of all, it wasn't "Mr System Manager" who first suggested
Valuing Differences, it was me, way back in reply 3. And I didn't
think it was a cop out, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
The original note asked for "any thoughts" and that was one of
my first, along with putting a letter on line to get co-signers.
The thing about Valuing Differences is that they're doing events
at many of the individual plants. So even though I plan on bringing
this up when they hit *my* plant, I still wanted to air it so that
other people could follow suit. That's all. I'm not sure why you
were so upset with the suggestion. /Fern
================================================================================
Note 446.14 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 14 of 50
IND::MENDES "Free Lunches For Sale" 29 lines 28-FEB-1988 16:34
-< Take a Firm, Reasonable Stand >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems that a letter to ALL the appropriate people- Valuing
Differences, executive management, the people directly responsible
for the scheduling- is appropriate. It should emphasize that both
Digital AND customer people who are in any way observant will be
unable to attend during our High Holy Days. (About all that excludes
are the totally secular types, and even they should be sensitive
to this particular issue.)
Furthermore, it should be pointed out that both employees and customers
may find this scheduling offensive. Therefore, if they MUST schedule
DECWorld at such a time, they should go out of their way to make
everyone aware that they understand what they are doing, that they
had no choice, and that they are prepared to make accommodations,
e.g., schedule visits and special presentations around customers'
observances, arrange for employees to be able to attend services,
etc. without prejudice.
Lastly, any employee who feels unable to attend should feel free
to explain that his or her observances, family or community
responsibilities prevent full, or even ANY, participation in the
event.
Unfortunately, if everyone's observances are strictly adhered to-
Christian, Jew, Moslem or whatever- it would be virtually impossible
to schedule any 2 weeks for any event. In this case, it might mean
that Jewish employees have to forego this event. I only hope the
scheduling was out of necessity, not out of insensitivity.
- Richard
================================================================================
Note 446.15 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 15 of 50
ULTRA::ELLIS "David Ellis" 20 lines 29-FEB-1988 09:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twenty years ago, it was unusual to see a company showing sensitivity to
Jewish employees and customers by scheduling around the High Holidays.
I'd like to think that we have made significant progress since then.
The most innocuous explanation of this DECWorld scheculing fiasco is that
it is an unfortunate lapse in the sensitivity of DEC upper management.
What we can do is make it clear that this kind of lapse should not recur.
Whenever an event needs to be scheduled in September or October, the Jewish
calendar should *always* be checked before the dates are cast in concrete.
Given the situation as it is, we can still insist (as suggested in .10 and .14)
that all programs scheduled for the High Holidays be made available on other
days so that Jewish employees and customers will not be placed in a situation
of conflict.
What I'd really like to see is a public statement by upper management that
demonstrates an understanding of the interests and needs of Jewish employees
and customers. DEC has always shown that it is a people-oriented company,
and in this situation, management needs to reaffirm that this is indeed the
case, despite the unfortunate appearance of a contrary attitude.
================================================================================
Note 446.16 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 16 of 50
IAGO::SCHOELLER "Dick (Gavriel ben Avraham) Schoelle" 6 lines 29-FEB-1988 09:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I would not normally attend DECworld, I find it the company's lack of
sensitivity and good planning troubling. I am amazed that they would
schedule DECworld then. Definitely include me among those who ask for more
understanding in the future.
Gavriel
================================================================================
Note 446.17 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 17 of 50
MCIS2::WEINER "Jerry Weiner" 11 lines 29-FEB-1988 09:36
-< DECWORLD Scheduling >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that someone(s) were very short sighted for not considering
that our holiday happens during DECWORLD. I also agree that it probably is not
changeable now, but certainly could be prevented in the future.
If I were scheduled to work at DECWORLD, I would not work that day.
I also would have some serious reservations about being away from home on
Yom Kippor.
================================================================================
Note 446.18 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 18 of 50
CRETE::LEVITAN 13 lines 29-FEB-1988 11:23
-< DEC Isn't The Only One >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes not looking at the calendar (re: holidays) can really
hurt a company. As an example: Interface, just about the largest
trade show firm made a mistake a few years ago that resulted in
dropping one of their shows.
They had a show in Washington, DC called (I think) Federal Expo
and without looking at the calendar, scheduled it the week of Passover.
There was an uproar from many firms that usually participate in
that particular show. By time they realized their error, it was
too late to change it. Granted, it was one of their smaller shows,
but I believe it is no longer held.
The owner and most of his employees are Jewish.
================================================================================
Note 446.19 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 19 of 50
RETORT::RON 8 lines 29-FEB-1988 11:35
-< Count me in >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I normally do not observe religious holidays. Even so, I feel that
upper management should have been more sensitive in this case.
If a multiple signature letter is prepared, I'll be happy to join in
and sign it.
-- Ron
================================================================================
Note 446.20 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 20 of 50
ULTRA::OFSEVIT 6 lines 29-FEB-1988 13:14
-< another possible reason: >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another factor in this situation is that the schedule may have
been made in Europe, and specifically in France. I have a suspicion
that U.S. companies (or branches of companies) are years ahead of
Europe in taking individual employees' differences into account.
David
================================================================================
Note 446.21 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 21 of 50
CADSYS::REISS "Fern Alyza Reiss" 7 lines 29-FEB-1988 13:50
-< Let's Get Going! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like most people are in agreement that a letter or letters
need to be written.
Is the original author of this note writing one now which will be
put on line for signatures? (If she's not, I'll volunteer to do
it if no one else is waiting in line for the honor :~) /Fern
================================================================================
Note 446.22 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 22 of 50
DELNI::GOLDBERG 8 lines 29-FEB-1988 14:13
-< Another signature >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEC's mistake is identical to the one frequently made by school
committees and officers in scheduling tests and other events to
be held on days of Jewish observence. And as in such cases, we
must make the responsible people aware of the fact that there is
a Jewish community at DEC that has certain religious obligations.
I don't think that we can do more, or that we should do less. Yes,
I'd sign the proposed letter.
================================================================================
Note 446.23 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 23 of 50
BAGELS::SREBNICK "It works better if you plug it in." 2 lines 29-FEB-1988 14:25
-< Send your cards and letters to??? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgive my ignorance, but just how does one contact the Valuing
Differences committee?
================================================================================
Note 446.24 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 24 of 50
SAGE::PERLMAN "Eli B. Perlman" 30 lines 29-FEB-1988 14:39
-< Don't be too hasty to rationalize, I've been there! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I won DECathlon a few years ago. When I complained that it started
on Yom Kippur and I would not be able to attend, they told me that
it was an oversight and how sorry they were. They acted surprised
as to how I responded and told me I was the first to complain.
After a short time, other Jewish DECathlon winners called me and
told me that they had complained and received the same response.
THEY WERE SO SWAMPED WITH CALLES THAT THEY CHANGED THE DATE "ONLY
FOR THE JEWS" by letting them come one day late, and leave one day
late. They also promised that they would never let this happen again.
This happened in Hawaii, not in France (which happened to fall very
nicely between the High Holydays and Sukkot.
By the way, in spite of the fact 25% of the winners turned out to be
Jewish and came one day late, and in spite of all the assurances, they
repeated this same thing a couple of years ago.
DIGITAL really does not value differences as much as it says it
does. In fact it is sometimes blind to differences. That is the
only negative thing I can say about this company, but it rears its
ugly head every two or three years around September.
I, for one, will not take part in the DECworld Celebration as a
result.
Regards and good calendar hunting,
Eli
================================================================================
Note 446.25 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 25 of 50
STAR::TOPAZ 6 lines 29-FEB-1988 14:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re .23:
The phone book lists the Valuing Differences office in the Personnel
listings; the mail stop is listed as CFO2-3/K78.
--Mr Topaz
================================================================================
Note 446.26 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 26 of 50
NATASH::LUTWAK 10 lines 29-FEB-1988 14:46
-< The memo we sent >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your notes of support.
A group of Jews in my department sent a memo to Shield, John Sims
( VP PErsonnel) and Chick Shue (Head of U.S. side of DECworld this
year) pointing out the days and their importance to Jews.
The memo also pointed out that digital as a company values differences
and sends this message out to both its employees and its customers.
So that we dont' embarrass either we asked that the date be changed.
================================================================================
Note 446.27 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 27 of 50
PARVAX::MIGDAL 5 lines 29-FEB-1988 15:29
-< Don't know what to say! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why are we always the "Forgotten People?"
I will refuse to attend DecWorld this year.
Allan
================================================================================
Note 446.28 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 28 of 50
CADSE::FOX "Don't assume ANYTHING" 7 lines 29-FEB-1988 16:03
-< I'll sign the letter >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: -last several on signatures
Granted that DECworld is a two week event, and scheduling is
probably a nightmare, DEC should still make provsions for holiday
observance, and publicize the fact.
Bobbi
================================================================================
Note 446.29 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 29 of 50
HJUXB::ADLER "Ed Adler @UNX / UNXA::ADLER" 22 lines 29-FEB-1988 18:01
-< Digital's FIRST RULE >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Moderator,
How about forwarding a copy of this note and its replies to:
KENNETH OLSEN @MLO@MRGATE
We seem to be spending too much time talking and not doing.
I'd like to point out that Digital is violating its own First Rule:
FIRST RULE
When dealing with a customer, a vendor, or an employee, do what
is "right" to do in each situation.
Quotation from:
"DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION CORPORATE PHILOSOPHIES"
-Operations Committee 1974
/Ed
================================================================================
Note 446.30 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 30 of 50
MDRLEG::RUBEN "Language is a virus" 12 lines 1-MAR-1988 02:24
-< MOVE IT >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, I'm not a Jew, but I'm myself concerned on
self-respect and respecting others views and thoughts.
I'm quite displeased DECworld being held in such an important date
and I hope someone somewhere take an action to solve this situation
very soon.
I don't think of changing the date being so crude. My personal opinion:
change it, and change it NOW!
Rub�n.
================================================================================
Note 446.31 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 31 of 50
IAGO::SCHOELLER "Dick (Gavriel ben Avraham) Schoell" 10 lines 1-MAR-1988 09:00
-< Savlanut! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
< Note 446.29 by HJUXB::ADLER "Ed Adler @UNX / UNXA::ADLER" >
> How about forwarding a copy of this note and its replies to:
> KENNETH OLSEN @MLO@MRGATE
It has been asked that replies to this note be used for gathering
opinions on this matter. At some point this may get sent that far
up the ladder. Right now just keep those votes coming 8^{).
Gavriel
================================================================================
Note 446.32 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 32 of 50
SHIRE::BARTA "Gabriel Barta/ExtComm/Telecom/Geneva" 32 lines 1-MAR-1988 10:14
-< Here's a voice in the wilderness >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my reaction for what it's worth. You might say that as a Jew
I'm qualified to comment, but as an atheist, non-observing Jew I'm
not, but I fundamentally disagree: all one needs is to be a working
resident of a particular country. Anyway, here goes.
Holidays are not holy days, they are civil rest days. They have
nothing to do with religion, which in many countries is legally
separated from the affairs of the state, and which should be so in all
countries. Therefore, no employer has any business whatsoever giving
so much as a single day's holiday for specific religious holy days.
Insofar as Christmas etc. is NOT a civil holiday in the country
concerned, no employer has any business scheduling around it -- at
least, not without doing the equivalent for ALL religions (including
Zoroastrianism). So ALL POSSIBLE religious holy days would have to be
scheduled around, which is an impossibility. Also -- a small,
incidental matter -- the U.S. Constitution would be broken, at least
in spirit. Separation of Church and State, remember?
Western countries -- in the past -- have made non-"valuing differences"
decisions to make Christian holy days into civil holidays, but not
Jewish ones. This may have been a mistake, or it may not. Complain
to the countries concerned. DEC has absolutely nothing at all to do
with it.
As for "valuing differences", it is the responsibility of each
individual, and in particular each manager. Perhaps this so-called
"program" doesn't exist in Europe because there's less need in Europe
for the corporate machinery to compel people to do what they're
supposed to do anyway.
So, everyone: stop making a senseless fuss, please.
================================================================================
Note 446.33 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 33 of 50
ABACUS::STEINBERGER 19 lines 1-MAR-1988 10:58
-< Another complaint about scheduling >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I complained once about DECUS being scheduled during the Jewish Holidays (I
sent the letter to both "Ken" and the DEC administrator for DECUS) and got a
nice letter back, apologizing, and promising better scheduling in the future.
I must admit, that since that letter, DECUS (US, anyway) has not been scheduled
during a (major?) Jewish Holiday.
Unfortunately, we probably have to go through the same process for each DEC
sponsored event, and their schedulers/administrators (including the DEC
Outings, which just about always fall around RH and YK).
Perhaps it's time to elevate the problem to "DEC's Personnel and Policies"
Committee to get a DEC policy concerning scheduling corporate activities
during "major" religious holidays of any (recognized) religion.
You don't want to know my opinion about DEC's (unofficial) policy toward
(Christmas) holiday decorations!
ed
================================================================================
Note 446.34 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 34 of 50
CURIE::GOLD "Jack E. Gold, MRO3" 18 lines 1-MAR-1988 11:28
-< Another approach >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ladies and Gentlemen
Your offense at Digital scheduling DECWORLD during the holidays
is well taken. However, in order for this to have a major impact
on the corporation, I suggest that we demonstrate to Digital what
this will mean in lost opportunity. Specifically, I suggest compiling
a list of those folks who would otherwise be participating in DECWORLD,
but will now not be able to. This list should include both Digital
folks and customers that we are aware of. If we can demonstrate
to Digital that there will be a significant number of people not
able to attend that otherwise would have, then perhaps they will
be more careful next time.
I for one will not be able to attend over the holidays. This is
in spite of the fact that I will be heavily involved with one of
the demos. Are there others of you out there?
Jack
================================================================================
Note 446.35 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 35 of 50
BIGMAC::JAROSS 10 lines 1-MAR-1988 13:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this time I am not scheduled to work on DECworld, but things
change around here rapidly. I really think it's disgraceful to
have the holiest of our holidays ignored in this manner. While it
may be too late to change the dates for this year, this file should
be forwarded to the appropriate people. Perhaps the fiscal calendar
that's so widely distributed should include a list of dates around
which major events should not be scheduled.
Maryan
================================================================================
Note 446.36 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 36 of 50
SLSTRN::RADWIN 8 lines 1-MAR-1988 14:28
-< Senseless, it ain't >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re. 32
>>stop making a senseless fuss<<
By scheduling DECWorld as it has, Digital is affecting the ability
of employees to participate and customers to attend. This is not
an insignificant matter. Nor is it a senseless fuss to bring this
situation to the attention of senior management.
================================================================================
Note 446.37 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 37 of 50
TERZA::ZANE "not by sight, only by sound" 16 lines 1-MAR-1988 16:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to make light of what I consider to be a very important matter,
but perhaps we ought to drive "valuing differences" home by hiring a
cantor and a rabbi to perform the High Holiday services right there at
DECWorld.
Yom Kippur is by far the most important Jewish holiday for me. I
think the organizers of DECWorld should know that it is very important
for a large number of people who might otherwise participate.
I wouldn't miss Yom Kippur for the (DEC) world.
Terza
================================================================================
Note 446.38 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 38 of 50
DIEHRD::MAHLER "Mordecai ben Moshe" 6 lines 1-MAR-1988 20:25
-< Volunteer for presentation to The People >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the status here? Has someone written a letter and would
like a review or better yet, a presenter?
RE:.37 G-d I loved that. A High Holy Sit-in. I'll bring my
tie-dye tallis.
================================================================================
Note 446.39 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 39 of 50
PRSIS4::ROZENBLUM 12 lines 2-MAR-1988 04:43
-< Make our action together >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with the answer 34 . I think we need to point out to DEC
that all the jew of the compagny are disagree to this meeting.
If you want I will distribute a letter of protestation to all the
jew employee in paris for their signatures.
But help to build this letter , send me your model where you explain
the importance of our feast and where you ask DEC to take care for
the next time.
Rozenblum serge IS # ADG EVRY France
================================================================================
Note 446.40 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 40 of 50
CURIE::FEINBERG "Don Feinberg" 8 lines 2-MAR-1988 09:43
-< Management alerted? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I heard yesterday (1 March) by a realiable management source
that this problem has already been elevated to the OPS committee.
We can probably assume that they're aware of it. What they'll
_do_, of course, remains to be seen.
/don feinberg
================================================================================
Note 446.41 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 41 of 50
JACOB::SWARTOUT 9 lines 2-MAR-1988 11:05
-< re: .40 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: .40
If this issue has already been elevated to management, then that's
good. However, I still think that a cohesive show of "solidarity"
among the Jews, et al of this company would be a good idea - not
only for this particular event, but also for future events. "We"
have a voice, we should use it.
Adrianna
================================================================================
Note 446.42 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 42 of 50
NATASH::LUTWAK 47 lines 2-MAR-1988 12:19
-< Jack Shields' reply >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello. As the original instigator of this note, here's the memo
sent by Jack Shields in response to my group's note concerning Rosh
Hashonah and Yom Kippur and the conflict with DECworld.
I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M
Date: 2-Mar-1988 11:31am EST
From: SHIELDS
183@DECMAIL@OGOMTS@OGO
Dept: SSMI ADMINISTRATION
Tel No: 276-9890
TO: See Below
Subject: ANNOUNCED DECWORLD DATES
Thank you for your note regarding the conflict of DECworld dates
and the Jewish Holy Days.
As you probably realize, we discovered this conflict a few weeks
ago and attempted to reschedule DECworld accordingly.
Unfortunately, we were unable to do so due to previous
commitments of space for the exposition center and rooms around
Cote d'Azure.
Please accept my apologies for our lack of sensitivity to the
dates and my assurances that we have (already) insured that
future DECworld's will not have a schedule conflict with the high
holy dates.
/KLM
klm.l972
Distribution:
TO: OURI TSAFRIR @OGO
TO: JACKIE SHERMAN @OGO
TO: CAROLE OSTERER @OGO
TO: SUSAN LUTWAK @OGO
TO: MIKE HYATT @OGO
CC: JOHN SIMS @CORE
CC: CHICK SHUE @MRO
================================================================================
Note 446.43 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 43 of 50
ERICG::ERICG "Eric Goldstein" 5 lines 3-MAR-1988 07:22
-< Kol Hakavod lachem. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re .42
You folks certainly deserve a pat on the back for your efforts. Be sure
to keep a copy of that memo from Shields for the next time that a similar
problem arises.
================================================================================
Note 446.44 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 44 of 50
SRFSUP::PLAUT "Milt" 6 lines 3-MAR-1988 16:09
-< Not Too Late to Change Date >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just heard from a reliable source that DECWORLD will not be held
in France but will be held at about 8 of the ACT's. If they can
make that drastic a change at this late date, then maybe it's not
too late for us to suggest that the date be changed so it doesn't
interfere with Rosh Hashona and Yom Kippur?
================================================================================
Note 446.45 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 45 of 50
PRSOIS::FITOUSSI 8 lines 4-MAR-1988 08:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-< NO DECWORLD MUSN'T BEGIN THIS DAY >-
re note .0
I effectively agree 100 % with you, Suzan. A lot of jews work in
this company... Digital should respect everyone's religion and its
laws. If you write a letter of complaint to Ken Olsen, I will sign
it too for sure.
================================================================================
Note 446.46 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 46 of 50
FSLENG::CHERSON "Birth, School, Work, Death" 7 lines 4-MAR-1988 11:04
-< say what?? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: .44
How could DECworld possibly be held at 8 ACT's?! I don't care if
they have it at every ACT in the world, I don't think that they
could do it.
David
================================================================================
Note 446.47 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 47 of 50
SHIRE::BARTA "Gabriel Barta/ExtComm/Telecom/Geneva" 23 lines 5-MAR-1988 06:32
-< This topic is a disgrace >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To misquote .43: you guys certainly do NOT deserve a pat on the back
for your efforts. Jack Shields does. He's done his part and more
(see .42); I'm still waiting for my fellow Jews to do theirs.
Here's a word-for-word extract of the personnel policy in European
Headquarters, Geneva, which (one should damn well hope) is repeated in
other subsidiaries and the U.S.:
Employees who belong to a religious community whose official
holidays do not coincide with local holidays may attend religious
services, with their supervisor's approval. The time off taken
should be deducted from accrued vacation or compensated by overtime.
Notice the symmetry for Christians living in Israel (e.g. your average
Joe Blow DEC relocatee).
You are wrong. Full stop. Period.
In fact, this whole topic is a total disgrace, and shows your complete
lack of understanding of civic issues and citizens' responsibilities
towards each other.
Comments?
================================================================================
Note 446.48 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 48 of 50
DIEHRD::MAHLER "Mordecai ben Moshe" 5 lines 5-MAR-1988 13:50
-< {snicker, snicker} >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Citizens of DIGITAL unite! You have nothing to lose but
your job security!
================================================================================
Note 446.49 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 49 of 50
ERICG::ERICG "Eric Goldstein" 19 lines 6-MAR-1988 05:47
-< Huh? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.47> He's done his part and more
.47> I'm still waiting for my fellow Jews to do theirs.
I don't understand. What is our part?
.47> Notice the symmetry for Christians living in Israel (e.g. your average
.47> Joe Blow DEC relocatee).
Actually, there may not be any such Digital employees who would feel a need
to take advantage of this policy. I'd guess that there'd be a greater
probability that it would be of use to Moslems working for Digital in Europe.
.47> You are wrong. Full stop. Period.
Who is wrong, and about what?
.47> Comments?
Yes. Please explain what you are talking about.
================================================================================
Note 446.50 DECWORLD BEGINS ON ROSH HASHONAH 50 of 50
GRECO::FRYDMAN "wherever you go...you're there" 28 lines 6-MAR-1988 19:26
-< "Zah shtil" indeed!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: .47
The real disgrace is the complete insensitivity by Mr. Barta of
the impact on ourselves and our customers of this mis-scheduling.
Jack Shields understands, and has promised that this type of mistake
will be avoided in the future. It makes sense because it's good
business and good employee relations.
Here, on this side of the pond, we are learning as a company to
become more attuned to the different lifestyles of our employees
and customers. We are learning that we may have to modify the way
we do business if we are to continue to be successful internationally.
I'm wondering whether what I called insensitivity may, in fact,
be fear. Fear of standing out...of standing up and making some
waves. Jews used to say "Zah shtil" (be quiet) when something was
done to them. They didn't want to cause a fuss because...who knows
what THEY might do to us? Well, that isn't how many of us react
anymore. When Jews approached DIGITAL with a request.. it was answered
with respect.
I'm proud of those involved...the people who wrote the letter...and
Jack Sheilds and DIGITAL for the manner and tone of the response.
---Av
| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 438.1 | | SHIRE::BARTA | Gabriel Barta/ExtComm/Telecom/Geneva | Thu Mar 17 1988 04:45 | 58 |
| I'm very glad that this note has been resurrected, even though I was
in a minority of one in its previous life. The current version stops
just short of my attempt to make clear some things that the two last
replies seem to have misunderstood. (I'm sure it was a coincidence
that the file disappeared just after that! :-) I will try and
reproduce some of what I said.
There's a distinction to be made between the company's
responsibilities towards its employees, and the employees'
responsibilities towards the company. The first has been fulfilled --
hence my saying that Jack Shields has done his part. The second, I
believe, has not been fulfilled by people who expect, or perhaps even
try to coerce, DEC to observe their holy days.
The employee's responsibilities towards the company are defined
by the laws of the country, by the work contract (express or implied)
and by each individual's responsibilities towards society. These all
-- it seems to me -- imply two duties which are relevant to this
discussion: to work the days specified by law and contract, and to
avoid affecting others (people, companies or kangaroos) by the
exercise of one's religion. (This latter is what I was referring to
by the separation of Church and State.)
Now, to ASK that one should not have duties assigned during one's
religion's high holy days is perfectly reasonable. It is what the
personnel policy I quoted refers to. To EXPECT this (or especially to
DEMAND it) is absolutely not reasonable, since it is in direct
violation of one's contract, and could very easily be in violation of
the law (depending on the country) and of the principle of non-
interference with others.
These were my points. You will notice that all are quite independent
of how sensitive a company is to individual differences, and also of
how well or badly DEC wants to succeed in business. We are talking
about the employees' behaviour, not the company's.
The "valuing differences" programme has never been needed in Europe,
and we all hope it never will be. Taking individuals' differences
into account is a totally ingrained part of all Europeans' culture,
and it would be completely misplaced (as well as unnecessary) for an
organization to presume to try and teach people these basic
responsibilities.
As for the "ad hominem" attacks, there were two: that I am insensitive
to Jews' legitimate needs, and that I wrote what I wrote out of fear
("sei still", to write it in German since I don't remember the Yiddish
spelling).
To a Central European who lost grandparents, aunts, uncles et j'en
passe in the camps, the first is just a little bit wide of the mark.
As for the second: upholding *this* point of view, in *this* conference,
does not exactly support it.
Finally, Eric Goldstein (in .48) doesn't seem to know what's going
on. Has the above helped a little, Eric? Eric?
Gabriel.
|
| 438.2 | | 52654::ERICG | Eric Goldstein | Thu Mar 17 1988 08:18 | 44 |
| .1> Has the above helped a little, Eric? Eric?
Yes, it is considerably more coherent than your previous note, though the
following section indicates that there is still room for improvement.
.1> Now, to ASK that one should not have duties assigned during one's
.1> religion's high holy days is perfectly reasonable. It is what the
.1> personnel policy I quoted refers to. To EXPECT this (or especially to
.1> DEMAND it) is absolutely not reasonable, since it is in direct
.1> violation of one's contract ...
Are you saying that it would be a violation not to have duties assigned
to me during my religion's holidays, or that it would be a violation for
me to expect this? Since you are so familiar with the terms of my contract,
please quote the section which states that either or both of these is not
permitted.
.1> ... and could very easily be in violation of
.1> the law (depending on the country) ...
Again, please tell us in which country it is a crime not to assign an employee
duties on his religion's holidays, or in which one may be prosecuted for
having expectations that this will occur.
.1> Taking individuals' differences
.1> into account is a totally ingrained part of all Europeans' culture ...
What an amazing continent you live on! Europe has so many different and
diverse cultures, but somehow all of them have this wonderful feature in
common. Maybe it's something in the water.
Finally, since you have quoted from a policy that you say applies to Geneva,
I hope that you'll allow me to quote from Personnel Policies and Procedures
for the United States (another location in which Digital has a major presence).
Section 4.01 includes the following paragraph:
Employees who wish to celebrate religious holidays not covered by
the Company holiday schedule are expected to do so by using either
personal holiday or vacation.
Since employees are EXPECTED to use personal holiday or vacation to celebrate
religious holidays, it logically follows that they should not have duties
assigned to them on such days. I would imagine that even in Geneva, employees
generally are not assigned duties while they are on vacation.
|
| 438.3 | T O L E R A T I O N . . . | EUROPE::ZARKA | Have Fun & Be Lazy | Thu Mar 17 1988 15:41 | 53 |
| RE: .47
Gabriel,
Your quote from the personnel policy in European Headquarters is
totally correct, but that policy is also not the correct one. I
already have mentioned that policy in this conference in September 85
and as you can see below it is not the same. The company changed the
policy (or the work contract) without informing the employees. We are
now in the process to have it back as it was or to amend it. If your
are an atheist none of us will hold it against you but we believe in
G.., we are Jews and we are proud of it.
During my thirteen years with DEC I for example have always agreed to
work 361.5 days at any time (and I did it) but I only reserved 2 days
for Rosh Hashana and 1.5 days for Yom Kippour. Is this not showing
"responsibility towards the company"? For the first time this year I
encounter a problem to do what I have always done.
In the past when those events were falling during any show or meeting
I returned home to follow the religious event and to be also with my
family (this is part of our TRADITION), then traveled straight back to
the show/meeting.
Gerard
<<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMAN_WRKD:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BAGELS-OLD.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 7.16 rosh hashana and vacation 16 of 23
EUROPE::ZARKA 20 lines 2-SEP-1985 10:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re 7.0
I've been with DEC for 10 years and have never worked on Rosh Hashana or
Yom Kippour. From an internal document named "YOU AND DIGITAL" valid in
Switzerland I am extracting the following sentence :
"Members of religious groups whose official religious feast days do not
coincide with Company's official holidays are allowed to attend religious
services."
Re 7.1
Before joining DEC I worked in four other company here in Switzerland and
I never got the problem of taking these days off. This has always been one
of my first request before signing for a job.
Shanna Tova
Gerard
|
| 438.4 | Memo to the DECworld 88 Management team | EUROPE::ZARKA | Have Fun & Be Lazy | Mon Mar 21 1988 08:25 | 74 |
|
Attached is a memo sent to the DECworld 88 management team. I didn't
enter it before receiving the OK from Lise who was on holiday. No
answer up to now.
From: NAME: Lise COHEN @GEO
FUNC: Executive Events
TEL: 7-821-4283 <COHEN.L AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>
Date: 03-Mar-1988
Posted-date: 03-Mar-1988
Precedence: 1
Subject: DECWORLD '88 - JEWISH HOLIDAYS.
To: See Below
I realised only a few weeks ago that the two most important
Jewish holidays i.e. Rosh Hashana (Jewish New Year) on September
12th and Yom Kippur (day of forgiveness) on September 21st are
falling this year during DECworld '88. For a Christian this would
be like going to DECworld during Christmas.
A most important minority of our invites to DECworld are Jewish.
Most Jews would simply not accept to travel and be away from home
on those days. In the case that some Jews however decide to
go to DECworld we should be able to do something for them (synagogue
service, etc.).
I know that we cannot change the dates of DECworld now, but we
should at least show to the world that we are sensible to the
'mistake', and that we will do something for them.
I also think that Digital as a corporation should offer a flight ticket
to Jewish employees working at DECworld so that they can go home on
those two holidays if they wish to do so.
If we can organise prayer rooms for the Arabs every year at DECville,
we should also be able to do something for our Jewish community.
It seems that Digital US has a board called "Valuing Differences". It
would be interesting to see what they have to say in this matter.
Though I am Jewish by marriage only (but fully by heart), I know
what it means and takes to be away from the family on those two
holidays.
Best regards,
Lise
Distribution List:
GEORGE BROTHERS @REO,
NAME: Nicole CARCASSONNE @GEO <CARCASSONNE AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
JEAN-CLAUDE CHAMPLONG @GEO,
NAME: Lise COHEN @GEO <COHEN.L AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
NAME: David COOPER @GEO <COOPER.D AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
PETER COURTNEY @GEO,
NAME: Aubert DE PROYART @GEO <DE PROYART AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
JACQUES DUPERRAY @EVB,
JEAN-LOUIS FRANCESCHINI @TDC,
NAME: Roger HAISMAN @GEO <HAISMAN AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
CARL HEMINGWAY @VBO,
NAME: Genevieve HOLVECK @GEO <HOLVECK AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
GISELA ITEN @VBO,
LAURENT LEFOL @VBO,
NAME: Phil LONDON @GEO <LONDON AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
NAME: Antoine MANSALI @GEO <MANSALI AT GVA01A1@GVA01A@GEO>,
ROBERT ROLLER @MKO,
TOM WHELAN @KLO,
PAT MOLLOY @AKO
|
| 438.5 | Answer from European management | EUROPE::ZARKA | Have Fun & Be Lazy | Fri Apr 15 1988 04:31 | 51 |
| From: NAME: Michael EWING @GEC
FUNC: AREA HR & ORGANISATION
TEL: DTN 821/4547 <EWING AT @AMIS1A1@GVAMRC@GEO>
Date: 07-Apr-1988
Posted-date: 11-Apr-1988
Precedence: 1
Subject: DECWORLD
To: See Below
COMPLETE DISTRIBUTION OF THIS MESSAGE IS:
DW88 CTY COORD: BDA STAFF: EUR AREA FM:
DW88 TEAM: EUR CM: DICK WALSH
EUR MKTG MGRS: EUR HRO MGRS: JACK SHIELDS
*************************************************************
THIS IS A JOINT MESSAGE FROM BRUNO D'AVANZO AND MICHAEL EWING
*************************************************************
Many people have raised the subject of DecWorld '88 coinciding with
the Jewish High Holidays of Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur.
We are aware of this situation, which we deeply regret, but
unfortunately there was no alternative, as the dates had to be picked
against various constraints, such as availability of the Exhibition
Hall, hotel availability in Cannes. In fact this has been known
generally for more than a year.
However we wish to point out that the planning for DecWorld has always
acknowledged the needs of those customers and employees for whom these
days have great significance.
Customers of course do have some flexibility on dates and it is
possible for travel arrangements to be made to avoid the key dates.
Employees who wish to observe the holidays are free to do so and
should inform their supervisor as appropriate. Consideration will be
shown to the needs of those employees who attend DecWorld but need
some free time to undertake activities connected with the holy days.
We will help to arrange for those interested the appropriate
accomodation, synagogues, kosher meals, etc.
We would express the regret of the Corporation that this problem has
occurred this year, and can advise you that steps have been taken to
ensure future DecWorld dates will not create a similar schedule
problem.
Best regards,
|
| 438.6 | Wrong date!! | SRFSUP::PLAUT | Milt | Fri Apr 15 1988 17:40 | 6 |
| As a follow on: I just received a company publication previewing
DECWORLD. Contained within it was a reference about DECWORLD
coinciding with the Jewish Holidays. The dates were published.
Would you believe that they had the WRONG date for Rosh Hashonah!!!!
Oh well, someone tried ( I wish they could try harder!)
|
| 438.7 | Being in Cannes for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippour | SHIRE::PANUSH | | Fri Aug 05 1988 09:38 | 24 |
| Hello !
My name is Aviva Panush and I am located in Geneva.
We are a few who will be going to DECworld and be there for Rosh Hashanah
and Yom Kippour, but it does not mean we will be working these 3 days !
What do you think about having a dinner on the 12th or 13th of September,
or both of them !, in a kosher restaurant in Nice or Cannes ?
It will not be an "official" organization, you might have already received
the DW88 guide in which it is stated that kosher meals will be available upon
request, but not on the boat, and that maps of the city will be distributed,
and that's it.
I am in contact with several people in Geneva and in Cannes in order to set up
a pleasant and joyful evening, as Rosh Hashanah has to be ! Then, if you feel
like it, join us and forward this note to your friends !
If you are interested or if you have any ideas/questions, please feel free to
contact me (DTN 821-4203, VAXmail SHIRE::PANUSH).
Shalom.
Aviva
|
| 438.8 | Kosher Restaurants may not be open on Holiday... | TAVENG::CHAIM | The Bagel Nosher | Sun Aug 07 1988 05:01 | 13 |
| Re: .7
I have my doubts as to the possibility that any of the Kosher
restaurants in Nice will be open for business on Rosh Hashannah
(unless you know for sure otherwise -- from experience I know they
are not open on Shabbat).
However, though I don't know of any Kosher restaurants in Cannes,
I believe there is a hotel (forgot name -- but could get it if you
need -- I myself was never there) that provides Kosher meals.
Cb.
|
| 438.9 | You're right | SHIRE::PANUSH | | Tue Aug 09 1988 12:54 | 8 |
| You are right. But I am in contact with a "from" person leaving in the area
and we will try to find a casher restaurant as near as possible from Cannes.
If not, then we will have to go to Nice (15minutes drive from Cannes).
Yes, there is a hotel in Cannes, the hotel Acapulco, were we could go but it
is also depending on the number of person.
Aviva
|
| 438.10 | Rosh Hashanah at DW88 | SHIRE::PANUSH | | Wed Aug 31 1988 04:09 | 11 |
| ref.7
Dinner is organized by the Hotel Acapulco in Cannes for the two
evenings of Rosh Hashanah. The price is approx FF200.- (which is
very reasonable).
For those who are going to Cannes, a table has been booked for the
two evenings. More information will be given on-site. They are of
course also organizing a dinner for Yom Kippur.
Aviva
|
| 438.11 | not a "dinner" on Yom Kippur | TAZRAT::CHERSON | Ok,now jump through this hoop | Wed Aug 31 1988 10:00 | 5 |
| re: .10
Aviva means a break-fast for Yom Kippur of course.
David
|