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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

435.0. "Jews and Apartheid" by VAX4::STEINBERGER () Thu Jan 28 1988 13:47

With all of the discussions going on comparing Israel with South Africa, I was 
wondering:

How do the Jews in South Africa (especially the "white" ones - as against 
the "black" ones) feel about apartheid?

Have they demonstrated against it?  Has the Jewish Community, as a whole, taken 
a stand against it?  

Obviously, our heritage and history indicates that we 
should be firmly against it, but I have heard nothing in the media about 
"Jews Against Apartheid".

Does anyone out there in "Bagel-land" have any information to shed on the 
subject? 

Any Jewish ex-South Africaners(sp?) out there?

Ed

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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435.1CIRCUS::KOLLINGKaren, Sweetie, Holly; in Calif.Thu Jan 28 1988 18:259
    There is a forum being held in Berkeley on Feb 1st, I think, with
    one of the primary speakers described to me as a South African Jew and
    a member of the ANC, who spent many years in jail in SA, moved to
    Israel, became disillusioned because of the Palestinian question,
    and now lives in London.  Dennis somebody?  I have no other
    information, and I wasn't planning to drive all the way up to Berkeley.
    I believe the Oakland mayor is a guest, so if someone is interested
    in attending his office might know the exact time and place.
    
435.2PARVAX::MAGNESFri Jan 29 1988 08:3263
    since the anc was mentioned and is sometimes discussed as an
    alternative to the botha gov,t a closer look should be taken of
    this movement and its' relation to jews and israel.
    
    as a revolutionary national movement oriented toward moscow, the
    anc has long echoed soviet attempts to undermine the legitimacy
    of israel. morever, perhaps not surprisingly, the anc is a strident
    supporter of  the plo.
    
    in 1970 the anc denounced "israel's aggressive expansionism" as
    "supported to the hilt by the ruling circles of the u.s. and their
    allies" and  urged "all peace loving states to immediately sever
    state relations with israel..."
    
    an article in the sept. 1971 issue of sechaba, the monthly anc magazine
    headlined "zionism, south africa and apartheid - a paradoxical
    triangle," was adapted from a pamphlet with the same title published
    by the palestine research center, an affiliate of the plo.
    
    in sept. 1980 anc president oliver tambo spoke in paris at an
    international conference on solidarity with the struggle of the
    namibian people council, a soviet front. he said
    "...i would like to assure our comrades in the liberation struggle..and
    the plo that their struggle is ours, our fight is carried on inthe
    knowledge of the degree of intamacy and political military and economic
    alliance that has been developed between zionism and racism."
    
    at the 60th anniversary meeting of the south african communist party
    (sacp) in 1981 ,tambo stated"today in the anti-imperialist struggle,we
    have won new allies like the struggling people of palestine. we
    have thrown up new enemies of peoples, like those who murder civilians
    in beirut."
    
    in july,1982 during the israeli military action against the plo
    in lebanon,anc chief united nations observer johnstone m. makatini
    denounced israel for its' "flagrant and unprovoked aggression in
    lebanon and its' attempted extermination of the palestinian people."
    he referred to prime minister begin's policies as "zionist nazism"
    
    witnesses who had been associated with the anc testified before
    the u.s. senate judiciary committee subcommittee in march 1982 stated
    that there was much cooperation and training between the plo and
    the anc.
    
    finaly cin 1983 closer to home at the stony brook university of new york,
    proffessor ernest dube, an anc repr.at the un serving on the un national
    education council created a controversy by teaching in his course
    "the ploitics of racism" that "zionism is as much racism as nazism 
    is racism"
    
    this is not mentioned in any way to condone the apartheid gov't
    of south africa, but rather to hopefully demonstrate that we have
    to be very careful who we support.
    
    south africa's policy of blatant racism is horrendous there can be
    no denying that fact. but a point to keep in mind is that south
    africa was the only african country not to break relations with
    israel after the 1973 war.
    
    btw. almost the exact same can be said of the sandinista regime
    and the anc's relationship toward the plo. i's write more on the
    sandinista regime but my fingers are tired from typing. i can imagine
    how tired i'd feel if i had been using the shift key.
435.3close to home...TRFSV1::A_HAIMOVITZdon't fix it if it ain't broke...Fri Jan 29 1988 09:0629
    After living in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) for 17 years and having
    a large number of friends who either live or have lived in South
    Africa I feel qualified enough to say emphatically that the majority
    of Jews living in that country are absolutely against apartheid.
    
    Some of those friends have even spent time in prison as a result
    of their actions against apartheid. 
    
    School holidays where spent on the various beaches of South Africa,
    and to see signs on the beach such as "Whites Only"kind of reminds
    one of the signs " No Jews Allowed".
    
    As a teenager I was very heavily involved in the Habonim Zionist
    Movement, and the topic of apartheid was discussed very heavily.
    
    At the age of 18 I had plans of returning to Israel ( I was born
    there) and what sped up my plans was the Rhodesian draft board.
    In those days the Rhodesian army was being very co-operative with
    the South African forces.
    
    In Canada I have seen a large number of South African Jews who have
    left as a result of apatheid, and by the way there is no such animal
    as a Jewish Afrikaaner.
    
    I hope this was not to long winded, but this topic is was once and
    and still is very close to home for me.
    
    Thanks for listening,
    Aryeh...
435.4one Jewish Afrikaaner, very opposed to the systemDELNI::GOLDSTEINBaba ROM DOSFri Jan 29 1988 17:0715
    re:.3 "no such thing as a Jewish Afrikaaner"
    
    A rather entertaining and enlightening show on PBX a couple of weeks
    ago featured a South African comedian who is, indeed, a Jewish
    Afrikaaner.  On one side he's Jewish, on the other he's descended from
    the founders of the National Party (the ruling Afrikaaner party). A
    very strange marriage...  Having such yichus, he's able to get away
    with more than most South Africans, and his act includes some very good
    PWBotha imitations, plus a drag impersonation of a white lady which
    mocks white attitudes (drag acts are generally illegal in SA; few
    others could get away with it). 
    
    He's one of the leading internal opponents to apartheid, needless
    to say.  (I can't remember his name, though.)
         fred