Conference taveng::bagels

       
       Gef�lte fish is the second most overrated food in the world.
       It is awful.
       
       Chopped liver is even worse.
       
       --Mr Topaz 

    re: .1
    
    That's a good start Mr. Topaz, but let's have something with a little
    more substance (and I don't mean stuffed cabbage :-).
    
    David

    Any comment on the Landau Commission report on the Shin Bet and their
    use of "torture"?  I think it is a serious mistake to support the
    use of physical and psychological intimidation of ALLEGED terrorists
    or perpetrators of "political" crimes.

    Gavriel

    Re.  .3:
    
    I believe that actions must be viewed within actual contexts. Sometimes
    physical and in fact no holds barred intimidation is necessary and
    in fact imperative. The danger of course lies within the scope of
    generalization and enforcement. At times differentiation becomes
    very hairy. Certainly immediate life or death situations to innocent
    people should always be considered.
    
    I believe it absurd to grant any "rights" to terrorists who so
    blatantly deny these same same "rights" to their victims, and this
    is irregardless of the "legitimacey" of the cause. There is NO cause
    that can condone terrorism.
    
    Cb.
    
    
    
   

>    I believe it absurd to grant any "rights" to terrorists who so
>    blatantly deny these same same "rights" to their victims, and this
>    is irregardless of the "legitimacey" of the cause. There is NO cause
>    that can condone terrorism.

    But if you do not grant equal rights to all, what do you do with the
    man who is falsely accused?  What do you fall back on when YOU are the
    one accused?  While many criminals and terrorists would hide behind
    those protections, I would think that the benefit the protections they
    give everybody are worth it.

    Gavriel

	Regarding the recent surge in Soviet emigrations of Soviet Jews,
    do you think it's more for "show" or actual change in policy?

	Suprisingly, according  to  this  morning  snooz, most Americans
    think it's for real and that Gorbachev is a real buddy.

>	Regarding the recent surge in Soviet emigrations of Soviet Jews,
>    do you think it's more for "show" or actual change in policy?
>
>	Suprisingly, according  to  this  morning  snooz, most Americans
>    think it's for real and that Gorbachev is a real buddy.

    A man beats his wife every day.  After his whole neighborhood gets
    on his back about it, he reduces this to every other day.  He points
    at this 50% improvement to show what a wonderful guy he is.

    Soviet policy is similar.  The economic situation there is terrible.
    The government is worse.  If they had the chance 10-20% of the
    population would pack up and leave for "the west" in a minute.  But
    look what happens when you ask out.  This is to keep a lid on EVERYBODY,
    not just the Jews.

    It happens that the Jews have a better chance of getting out than the
    rest of the population.  This is because of the presence of an
    external homeland and the larger number of close relatives already
    outside.  But Jews are discriminated against even when they have not
    asked to emigrate.

    We can say, things have gotten better.  We can ask, let everybody out.
    But first we must say "Let OUR people go!  Every one that wants to!"
    When that is the case then we can pat Gorbachev on the back and say,
    "Nice job."

    Gavriel

    Gorbachev has seemed to replace Joan Collins as a focal point of
    discussion in America these days.  Would you buy a used car from
    this man?, etc.

    The Soviet Union and even more so the East Bloc countries react
    to economic incentives on a tit-for-tat basis, you give me most
    favoured nation status and I'll let so many Jews out.  The policy
    is not based on morality, that's for sure.
    
    By the way, lost in all the news was the story that Ariel Sharon,
    Miniter of Trade, was scheduled to visit Hungary.  However the
    Hungarians cancelled the visit in response to heavy pressure
    from certain Arab countries.  You see it pays to have a shortwave
    radio and know Hebrew!
    
    David
    

    
    <But first we must say [to Gorbachev], Let OUR people go
    
    Nu, I'm really curious. How many people are going to Washington
    on Sunday?  And how many people think this is an effective use of
    UJA money?
    

    I will probably be going and hopefully my wife and kids will be
    going also.  Is anyone taking their kids?
    
    Yes it is a very good use of money.  In Russia any major demonstration
    is government sponsored.  The Russians belieeve the same of us. 
    A large demonstration will will convince them that the American People
    and especially our government is strongly behind this issue.
    
    WS

I'll be there.... 

	[ Fern, will you be on the Hillel bus? ]

I'll be there, too  (with kids...).

/don feinberg

    Me too, even if I have to drive all night.
    
    Ed

    I'll be there.  Sorry, the kids and wife had to stay home.

    I heard a rumour that about .25M are expected.  Certainly,
    the more voices, the clearer the message.

    --Gary

    I'll be there with my 11-year old son. We'll be on a bus from
    Congregation Beth El of Sudbury, Some 40 high school students are
    going. The bus will park at RFK Stadium and we'll take the metro
    to the Elipse.  I hope my son will get to see what America and the
    Constitution are all about. After hearing about my involvement with
    civil rights marches in the 60's, he wants to make a statement for
    himself. 
    
    -- Stan
    

    There are .25M going just from Northern New Jersey. This message
    will be loud and clear.  I just hope that the snow does not put
    a freeze on things.

    Will a knowledgeable soul please post the brocha to be recited upon
    seeing a group of >600,000 Jews in one place?  We will probably
    have the rare opportunity to use it on Sunday!
    
    Ed

>    Will a knowledgeable soul please post the brocha to be recited upon
>    seeing a group of >600,000 Jews in one place?  We will probably
>    have the rare opportunity to use it on Sunday!
    
    Ed,
    If nothing else comes to mind try "Shehechianu"

    Gavriel

>>    ... please post the brocha to be recited upon
>>    seeing a group of >600,000 Jews in one place?
>    
>    If nothing else comes to mind try "Shehechianu"

It's no big deal. You can find the same thing (>600K Jews in one 
place) every summer Saturday, on the Tel-Aviv beach; all of them, 
within the city block between Frieshman and Gordon. Over there,
the correct 'bracha' is "Oy-Vey". :-).

-- Ron

    re:-1
    
    Ron, you took the words right out of my mouth!
    
    David

    
    Perhaps the time is not yet right for the prophecies regarding the
    gathering together of the Jewish peoples to be fulfilled ?
    
    Just a thought....
    
    Paul V

    
    For those who couldn't make the march, the final estimates put the
    number of those attending at between 250 and 300,000.  A decent
    showing, and a good rally--(though I could have lived happily without that
    13 hour bus ride back to Boston...)

re:  .-1

>	I could have lived happily without that
>        13 hour bus ride back to Boston...)

	FOR SURE!!

	(But I wouldn't have missed this. Well worth going!)

/don feinberg

    I even heard about this on the local radio station news over here.
    
    

    
    I saw you all on the telly last night. Seemed like a well attended
    event.
    
    Paul V

	>The first objective is to get them out.  I have no problem
	>with encouraging Soviet Jews to settle in Israel, but that
	>is a secondary problem.  If someone can show me that routing
	>them through Romania will get more out, then I'd advocate
	>using Romanian transit facilities.  Frankly, I don't think
	>it makes any difference.  From what I know of Soviet politics,
	>I think it depends more on internal Soviet policies rather
	>than external destinations.

	The routing question deals more with final destination rather than
	numbers.

	The Soviets seem to waver on the above issue.  On the one hand when
	visas are issued they are issued for Israel, but then when people 
	opt for the U.S. then they are indirectly helping their "adversary".
	When Soviet Jews immigrate to Israel they then run into the 
	contradiction of aiding Israel, the adversary of many Arab states.

	David