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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

356.0. "They Didn't Teach Me This In School" by NETEAM::HANSON (Ridin' the storm out...) Fri Sep 04 1987 13:08

Hi!

Maybe this doesn't belong here?

Maybe I don't belong here?

...but here goes.

	My exwife and I were divorced seven years ago. We had two children 
during our nine year marriage. We were not Jewish. I remarried two and a half 
years ago. The woman that I am married to now is Catholic. I was raised Church 
of Christ. My wife is shunned at her local parish because I refused to go 
through the Catholic church's annulment process. My thought was that My first 
marriage and the divorce had nothing to do with Catholicism so why do I need 
there approval. Anyway that's not what I need input on.

	My exwife is soon going to marry a Jewish man. She is converting but not 
the children. The man's mother is Orthodox and disapproves of the kids mother 
and wont even talk to the kids. They are not allowed over to his mother's house.
The kids have come to me several times; I have them every weekend; with 
questions about the Jewish religion, way of life, whats going on with their 
Mother, why Brad's mother treats them the way she does, and will they lose me.
I can handle the "lose me" questions; they wont. But I not sure how to answer 
the Jewish related questions. The kids have been to a synagogue (sp) a couple of 
times and talked with a Rabbi, but I'm their Dad so I get the questions. Is 
there some book or reference material, short of becoming a Jew myself, that I 
could use to help me with the kids? I don't want to (un)intentionally misinform 
them. All four (step)parents involved are on good terms and communicate 
regularly. But when I get asked a question I don't want to say hold that thought 
while I make a phone call.

	The kid's health, happiness, and mental security are my primary concern.


Thanks for any thoughts.


Scott P. Hanson
RLO Chicago
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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356.1Good luckCADSYS::RICHARDSONFri Sep 04 1987 13:5938
    Wow, what a story!  You have all of our sympathy, and of course
    your questions are welcome in this file (well, I'm not a moderator
    of it, but I'll say so anyhow).
    
    My first husband was Catholic.  When he left, I offered to go through
    a Catholic church annullment for him so he could remarry in the
    church, but he wasn't interested (I don't think it is that big a
    deal in most parishes anymore, but I have heard of some people who
    were really given a hard time - very sad business!).  This wasn't
    a problem for me when I married Paul, since it wasn't a Jewish marriage
    and so didn't need a Jewish divorce (called a "get").  I don't know
    what my ex-inlaws think of all this, but none of them live near
    here and I haven't seen any of them since before the divorce...
    
    As far as your ex's new mother-in-law goes, she will probably come
    around in time, unless she is very strict and/or the children are
    very badly-behaved when she is around.  If you and your ex-wife
    wanted to, the children could be converted at the same time as your
    ex is (if they are under 13, anyways) with no extra work on their
    part, although they have to accept the conversion again when they
    become 13.  That would probably make things better with the
    mother-in-law, but of course it isn't an option if the children
    are being raised as Christians, and I'm sure the rabbi involved
    has already discussed the possibility with your ex.  If you are
    on good terms with her, you could try asking your ex to ask the
    rabbi to reccomend a couple of books to you, or call the rabbi up
    yourself (or some other rabbi, if you and your ex don't communicate
    very well - a rabbi of a liberal congregation is more likely to
    be sympathetic to your dilemma).   One good book I can think of
    is titled "To Be a Jew", by something like Donin, or maybe Donini.
    There are several books describing Jewish faith and practices (usually
    from a fairly liberal prospective -- as you may have gathered, I
    belong to a liberal congregation; it is very unlikely that I would
    have been married to a Catholic man otherwise) for non-Jews, which
    a rabbi coule reccommend to you.  Good luck!  Let us know how it
    works out.  Also, there are several very well-educated people (not
    me!) who read this file who can answer any specific questions you
    come up with.
356.2More reading availableIAGO::SCHOELLERHelp! | !pleHFri Sep 04 1987 14:286
    "To Be a Jew" - R. Chaim HaLevi Donin - Very good on how to

    Check note 110.* for more books.

    Gavriel
356.3Check out 129.*PIWACT::KLEINBERGERMAXCIMize your effortsSat Sep 05 1987 21:226
    You might also want to check out note 129.* here... People were
    extremely helpful in answering my questions aboutthe jewish
    religion/holidays, you might gain some understanding through that
    topic...
    
    Gale
356.4Understanding Judasim...BAGELS::SREBNICKDavid Srebnick, NCSS, LKG1-3/B19Tue Sep 08 1987 10:4927
    Understanding Judasim, by Rabbi Eugene Borowitz.  This book is
    published by the UAHC (Reform) and is geared mostly to high school
    age.  It provides a good overview of contemporary Reform Jewish
    thought.
        One chapter of the book is devoted to answering eight or nine
    basic questions about Judaism from a Reform point of view (by R.
    Borowitz), along with "responsa" from a Conservative and an Orthodox
    authority.  It is this chapter that may help you deal with the
    questions involving conflict between traditional and liberal Jewish
    thought.
    
    As I browse the shelves of the Israel Book Store here in Mass.,
    several books on this topic catch my eye; some are geared for young
    adults.  The books tell stories of young people going through events
    similar to what your kids must be experiencing.  Since I've never
    had occasion to read one I really can't speak for how good they
    are, but they're worth browsing for.
    
    Also, perhaps a Rabbi, or someone from Jewish Family Services (or
    whatever they call it out in Chicago) can help by suggesting books.
    
    Without knowing the nature of the questions your kids are asking, I
    could only guess that you'd have to do an awful lot of study (and have
    lots of experience) to become the "expert" your kids seem to need.
    Although not desirable, it would seem that the "hold on while I make a
    phone call..." approach might be a good way to go for the more complex
    or technical issues.
356.5What is a Jew?CSCMA::SEIDMANAaron SeidmanTue Sep 08 1987 11:408
	A good place to start is Morris Kertzer's _What is a Jew?_.

	It is one of the most popular books used in conversion classes
because it is very straightforward and is based on thousands of actual
questions directed at the author during his rabbinical career.  It does
not presume any prior knowledge of Judaism.

					Aaron
356.6NETEAM::HANSONRidin' the storm out...Tue Sep 08 1987 12:1819
    
    	Thanks! I appreciate the timely responces. I have compiled a
    list of books and will spend spend a couple of lunch hours browsing
    the book stores this week. I was thinking this weekend that even
    if the kids were not hitting me with questions it would be a good
    idea for me to learn more.
    
    	re:.1	The exwife and I talk several times a week. Our
    conversations are usually about whats happening with the kids. The
    exwife, her future husband, my wife, and I all know each other and
    are on friendly terms. We even end up sitting together at school
    functions. And as far as the kids behavior goes they are kids. They
    tend to be on the quiet side unless they really know all the people
    that are present.
    
    Anyway...thanks!
    
    
    Scott
356.7NETEAM::HANSONMon Sep 14 1987 13:0116
    Hi!
    
    Just a little update. On Labor day (now this could get confusing)
    my exwife's parents had my exwifes future husband's family over.
    His brothers and sisters are quite liberal and have many Christian
    friends and so on. But his Mother has never been in a Christian
    home before and was pleasently surprised to discover that there
    weren't crosses on all the walls and that Christians are people
    too. She spent some time playing with the kids and all in all had
    a real good time. So everyone involved is real pleased.
    
    I have started reading "To Be A Jew" but not tonight...Bears/Giants
    game. Thanks again!
    
    
    Scott
356.8Generic titleSWATT::POLIKOFFSee SWATT run. Run SWATT run.Thu Oct 15 1987 15:568
    	I have known several people who said they were Orthodox Jews
    and acted the way the step-grandmother is acting. In reality they
    are not Jews. The Jewish religion does not preach hatred. My uncle
    called himself an Orthodox Jew but when his son married a Gentile
    he refused to see his son. My uncle recently died of cancer and
    if I were a betting person I would bet 2 shekels he is frying in
    Hell now.
    			Arnie, the Orthodox pork eater