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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

324.0. "English version of Talmud" by JEREMY::GIDEON (Fe is expensive, but Si is cheap) Tue Jun 30 1987 03:54

An English translation (as authorized as possible) is needed of the phrase
from the Talmud (tractate Sanhedrion,  Chap.   Daleth, Verse 5) " ...  Kol
hamekayem nefesh achath miyisra'el ...  ke'ilu kiyem olam male".
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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324.1why?IOSG::LEVYQA BloodhoundTue Jun 30 1987 10:372
    Please explain to the less enlightened of us the context 
    of this and your reason for picking this verse out?
324.2English you want... English you get...TAVENG::CHAIMLe'ChaimWed Jul 01 1987 02:0323
I don't know how authorized this xlation is but here it is:

Anyone who upholds (saves in this context) the soul (life in this context) of 
any member of Israel (i.e. a Jew) is considered as if he has upheld an entire 
civilization.

The talmud also states the converse.

The Talmud mentions this in reference to a situation where an enemy force 
surrounding a city gives the people of the city an ultimatum of either giving 
up a particular individual or being totally destroyed. The Rabbis forbid any 
such "compromise".

The underlying meaning is that every individual has infinite importance. It 
cannot be quantified nor measured pragmatically. 

Jews for centuries have overlooked all risks and cost in order to save even 
one life. Consider what the Israeli government has given up in order to have 
bodies returned for proper Jewish burial (not to mention for POW's). Such 
action is based on the thesis mentioned above.

Cb.
    
324.3It;s for a gravestoneJEREMY::GIDEONFe is expensive, but Si is cheapWed Jul 01 1987 02:053
It's for  engraving  on  a  gravestone.   The grave is that of a Christian
priest who saved a good deal of Jews during the holocaust.  He asked to be
buried in Jerusalem, and a Moslem family is sorting out the arrangements.
324.4Try Soncino....TAVENG::CHAIMLe'ChaimWed Jul 01 1987 02:3813
    I would suggest taking a look at the Soncino translation of the
    Talmud. I don't personally have one, but I'm sure that the library
    at Givat Ram or Bet Hanasi does. The xlation I proposed is correct
    from a context point of view but lacks the eloquence you are most
    likely seeking.
    
    If you have any difficulties obtaining a suitable xlation send me
    a mail and I'll ask around and try to put together a literary gem
    for this person. From your description he obviously deserves it.
    
    Cb.
    
    
324.5Davar Acher - Another ViewPOBOX::LENOWWed Jun 08 1988 15:5612
    This is a belated reply since I read this note only a few minutes
    ago. I agree with all that has been said but I should like to offer
    a different translation for mekayaim,"perpetuate". Kayaim means to
    "keep something going" and with the mem prefix indicates the present
    participial form of "one who keeps something going". 
    
    The pashoot (simple) explanation of the verse is exactly as Chaim
    stated, one who saves a single soul in Israel (the people), is as
    if he had saved the whole universe (of people). It is very appropriate
    for the use you intended.
    
    Moishe