Conference taveng::bagels

reply to < Note 322.0 by RAMONA::ROBBINS "Rich Robbins" >

>I have heard rumors that the Japanese auto manufacturers will not
>do business with Israel.  Can anyone verify or refute this?

I read something about this a few weeks ago, which indicates that that's
the case.

Personal observation is that you can only buy Daihatsu or Subaru.  The
Japanese manufacturers seem to cooperate with the "boycott"  :-) 

/don feinberg

    Re: .0 & .1
    
    Yes, you are both correct, Japan does honor the boycott (mostly).
    Some Japanese products are sold in Israel under third-party names.
    One such one that comes to mind is "National Panasonic", now I was
    never sure what the origin of this brand was.  They probably are
    products manufactured at a Panasonic subsidiary in Singapore or
    Taiwan, therefore deemed not a "Japanese" product, and ok to sell
    to Israel.
    
    Now let's not jump to conclusions i.e., Japan being an Anti-Semitic
    an Anti-Zionist country, etc.  It's not fair to blame countries
    that have had hardly any contact with significant numbers of Jews.
    This was the case once when I witnessed a session of the Knesset,
    one of the numerous hamourim (Jackasses) got up at the podium and
    declared China an Anti-Semitic country.
    
    Japan is not Anti-Semitic, but they are a country which seems to
    have their own priorities and views of the world.  And let's not
    forget that Japan is totally dependent on others for her energy
    needs.
    
    I think that our moderator has been to Nippon?  Maybe Mike can
    enlighten us on the Japanese and the Jewish people.
    
    David   

While I will not jump to any conclusions based on responses to
this note, I would like to know which Japanese auto manufacturers
(if any) will do business with Israel.  I will use this
information when choosing my next car.

Are there non-Japanese auto makers that exclude Israeli business?

-- Rich

No you can't buy a Honda in Israel.

Yes there are Japanese manufacturers ( of all kinds of things, not just
cars) who refuse to do business in Israel.

I'm not making any general observations on whether "Japanese" 
[Japanese what? people? business? government?] are or are not
"anti-Semitic".  

Most Japanese industry does indeed honor the Arab boycott of Israel.
In fact, they are reputed to go much further in honoring the boycott
than any other 1-st world industrial country -- further than some
Arab countries go!  All the major Japanese auto manufacturers with
the exception of Subaru refuse to do business in Israel.  
(What is Dahaitsu?  Isn't that Korean?)  Subarus are very broadly 
available in Israel; they are probably one of the top five cars bought there.  

Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Sony and all the rest also boycott Israel.
No local distributorships, service centers, direct shipments, nada.

It is stupid to believe that Japanese companies do this either because
they are anti-Semitic or because they seriously believe that when (or if)
the revolution comes (i.e. oil supplies to the West shut off) they
alone will be spared.  Basically, they do it because they are greedy, and
believe that boycotting Israel will net them increased sales in the
Arab world.  Israel being a relatively small country, they don't consider
the sales opportunity lost to outweigh this factor.
I don't think they are right about this; after all, Buicks
are *still* the car of choice in Beirut.  

I don't think they see it as a moral issue one way or another.

[A (slightly) more serious topic is the recently ballyhooed appearance
of reams of anti-Semitic literature in Japan - explanations of how
the world is run by Zionists from Israel and America, and they are the
ones responsible for the alarming weakness of the dollar (and therefore
the alarming weakness of America as a good export market for Japan!)]

Does anybody in Japan read this file?  Do you have any info on either of
these 2 issues?  I'd be interested in a local point-of-view.

    I'll ask my friends in Tokyo, but trust me
    when I saw that the Japanese have GREAT respect
    for the Jews.  I've seen it with my own hands and
    heart.

    As .4 pointed out, I beleive that the main factor of several
    major Japanese companies refuse to do business with Israel
    is a 200 million + Arab market versus a 4 million market in
    Israel. Though I beleive that Sony does sell videos in Israel,
    you can't import a Honda or buy one. The main Japanese car is
    definitely the Subaru.
    The more imprtant part, as metioned in that note, is that several
    books and a play, which has been written by a Japanese woman
    married to an American Jew has written detailing the relationships
    she has with her husband's family. I have not read the book just
    the reviews in Newsweek. However with the strength of the Yen versus
    the weakness of the dollar has started hurting Japanese exports
    and certain people have started trying to blame this NOT on Japanese
    Jews (of which there are about 5000) but on world Jewery. Without
    making a mountain out of a molehill it's still better to know about
    it and fight this early. Silence usually means acceptance to those
    not in the know...the Japanese public at large.

    
    	Those interested might enjoy reading:
    
    
    	"The Japanese and The Jews."
    	By Isaiah Ben-Dasan
    	WeatherHill �1970,2
    	
    
    	

    There are a variety of Japanese goods available in Israel. I believe
    many of them are drop shipped from Europe, However.
    
    As far as Japanese cars go, the Subaru is the most widely available
    car is Israel, although there are many European cars there too
    (Mercedes, Volvo, VW, Ford, etc., but I don't remember seeing any French
    cars). The Subaru is basically a Japanese car built for America.
    It is imported to the states by a company which to the best of my
    knowledge is not part of the Japanese manufacturer (Fuji heavy
    industries). This could be why Subaru is available in Israel while
    others are not.
    
    BTW, National is the brand name that Panasonic is known by every
    where else in the world but the US.
    
    Jack

    It's a shame that the Subaru is the one the Israelis get and not
    Honda. The Hondas are far better looking.
    
    BTW, the new Rover that the Americans are meant to like 
    is half Honda. I wonder if any of them make it Israel? 
    The only British cars I remember seeing in Israel were 
    old minis.
    
    

    It's very interesting to read various responses to this question
    of Japan vis-a-vis Israel.  I'm glad to see that Mike has backed
    up what I said about the Japanese being Anti-Semitic, etc.
    
    If I'm mistaken please let me know, isn't Subaru owned by GM?  I
    could have sworn that someone told me that they had a connection
    to the Buick division.
    
    British vehicles do make it to Israel, particularly trucks manufactured
    by British Leyland.  But I'm sure that there are some British companies
    that "respect" the boycott.
    
    As far as any type of Anti-Semitic literature that puts economic
    blame on Jews, I'm sure that could be a possibility in many countries.
    No one has discussed Argentina in this notesfile, and after the
    Soviet Union, I couldn't think of a more fertile ground for
    Anti-Semitism.
    
    David 

    Isuzu is partially owned by GM.  Ford has a piece of Mazda and I
    think Chrysler owns a bit of Mitsubishi.  GM also, of course, has
    a joint venture with Toyota (NUMMI) in the US.
    
    Subaru is the car brand marque of Fuji Heavy Industries, whose
    president is a Mr. Tojo.  Definitely not American!
    
    Within the US, Subaru is a regional special; it's popular in snowy
    states but not the heartland.

    Just to put the record straight.
    
    There are 3 Japanese manufacturers who sell cars in Israel. They
    are SUBARU, DAIHATSU and SUZUKI. In addition most of the electronic
    goods are also available under their own brandnames (Sony, National,
    Hitachi, Sharp, Sanyo, etc..)
    
    But there are no Japanese restaurants in Israel!
    
    Mike
    

1. Subaru IS the preferred Israeli DEC car.
   For more details ask any TAVxxx::xxxxxx...

2. There IS a Japanese restaurant (at least there used to be), in the
   north of Dizengoff st. - called "Sukiyaki" (what else...). 

/Nitsan (In English it sounds like Japanese, doesn't it?)

    A boycot of Israel is an antisemitic act, regardless of how nice
    the boycotters may appear.

    re: .14
    
    No, I'd still tend to disagree with you, and I'm not the sort of
    person to let Anti-Semites off the hook.  It's exactly as someone
    pointed out in an earlier reply, just "good business sense" (look
    I know that's disgusting, but then other nations and people engage
    in that act every day).
    
    David

    Re:.14

    Was our Boycott of the Olympics under Carter
    a Anti-everyone else act?

                                      
    Re: 16:
    
    It was an anti-Soviet act.  It was designed to hurt the USSR.
    
    A boycott is designed to hurt.  Going along with injustice is
    injustice. 

    RE: 322.nn
    Hey, did I miss a piece of recent history or am I napping (again)?
    
    Is there a new wave of anitsemitic literature sweeping Japan?
    
    IN JAPAN????
    
    WHY???
    
    I was under the impression that the Japanese didn't go in for that
    sort of thing?
    
    Can anyone out there enlighten me?
    
    Shalom,
    

    Shit.

    I don't know how to interpret your reply, (RE:.19)
    You could "MAIL" me a message if you'd like.
    

    I was just frustrated.  The Japanese, generally, are NOT
    AntiSemites.

    I agree with you.
    
    Then where did the introduction of all this "Anti" literature come
    from and why is it affecting the Japanese people so much?
    
    I truly find this very painfull and disturbing!
    

    As a matter of fact, the Japanese in WWII were intrumental in saving
    the lives of many Jews by refusing to turn them over to the Nazis.
    In fact, many spent the war years in Japan. This ceratinly would
    not indicte to me that the Japanese are basically Anti-Semitic.
    (BTW, the Italians also did not turn over their Jewish citizens
    to Hitler).
    
    Jack

                                      
       
   > A boycott is designed to hurt.  Going along with injustice is
   > injustice. 
   
   Come off it.  You could describe many third-world countries as 
   anti-semitic because they go along with the boycott.  But they 
   could retort by pointing out Israel's questionable relationship
   with South Africa, and many despotic regimes (Central America,
   Chile, Paraguay, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.).

   If you want to point the finger at anyone, point it at those that
   generated the boycott, no the people who are manipulated by it.

   David
   

    Re .32:   Italy not turning over Jews to Germany.
    
    This is not true; many Italian Jews were shipped out to the
    camps.  Primo Levi, who recently died, was an Italian Jew who
    survived Auschwitz and wrote about it (_Survival_in_Auschwitz_).
    There have been several movies also about the experience of the
    Italian Jews ("Garden of the Fintzi-Continis", "Seven Beauties").
    
    The country that did save its Jews was Denmark.
    
    			-John Bishop

    That is true, Denmark was very supportive of the Jews
    during the war, as was Japan and some Scandanavian countries
    [esp Sweden].

    What other countries provided shelter?

    You are certainly correct about many Italian Jews dying in the camps,
    but my understanding was that this did not take place until after
    Germany invaded Italy. Can anyone else shed some light on this.
    
    I also believe that large parts of Romania provided safe haven for
    Jews. I do not know all the details, but I remember hearing something
    about this from my mother.

    The US turned away Jews trying to escape from the Nazis.  It's also
    quite well documented that the US government knew about the Holocaust,
    could have done much to destroy the transport support structure,
    but did nothing.

    The commercial boycott of Israel is -perpetuated- because:
    
    1) the participants' beliefs are anti-Israel/anti-Jewish;
    2) the participants are apathetic in the matter;
    3) the participants are morally opposed, but unwilling to bear the
       cost of standing up for their principles.

       US and Jewish war refugees.
       
       My recollection was that the US accepted only 100 (one hundred)
       Jewish refugees during the war. They were placed in a relocation
       camp somewhere in upstate New York or other northern state. 
       
       Jewish leaders asked the US to bomb the camps and railroads, but
       they refused. There was a recent Public TV program about a
       concentration camp inmate who escaped and made his way to
       England. When he got there he tried to tell the allies what was
       going on, but he was ignored. 
              
       
       Japan and Jewish war refugees.
       
       The Japanese may not have turned Jews over to the Nazis, but was
       this because of humanitarian reasons?  I vaguely remember that
       the Jews were moved to Manchuria as part of some sort of social
       experiment.  This deserves further investigation. 
                                                        
       
       Denmark and the Jews.
       
       As I remember this, Denmark, an occupied country, smuggled all
       its Jews out to Sweden, a neutral country, thereby saving their
       lives. This happened under the Germans' noses in the middle of
       the night.  Let's hear it for the Danes and Swedes. 
       
       
                                              
       

    My father (a Jew) was captured by the Japanese 15-Feb-42, & was
    put on building the Siam railroad for the rest of the war - he wasn't sent
    to Manchuria, but I doubt that this was for humanitairan reasons
    - building the railroad was rather harsh at best.
    
    I too have heard of the Roumanians' good reputation (part of my
    family mythology) - I'd be very interested to hear from anyone with who
    knows more.
    
    Pete

    Don't forget Holland.  I know someone at work whose parents hid
    Jews in their cellar during the War.  Also, witness Anne Frank and
    her family who were kept hidden by her father's Gentile employees.
    

re: several.

While Sweden accepted the Danish Jews, it also turned away German citizens
trying to enter Sweden during the late 1930's if they had "Juden" stamped
on their passports.

Finland, which was allied with Germany, protected its (1000 or so)
Jewish citizens.

Spain was a haven for Jews.  Franco decreed that all Jews of Spanish
ancestry (which went back to the 1400's and wasn't easy to disprove)
were welcome.

------

Japan has always been a tad xenophobic.  Blaming the Jews for their
economic troubles isn't much different than our blaming the Japanese
for ours.

Martin.

    RE .33
    
    You say the Japanese blamed their economic troubles on the Jews......
    
    How many Jews could there possibly be living in Japan to blame
    their troubles on??
     
    3 or 4?
    3 or 4 hundred ?
    thousand!?!?
    

    A couple years ago, about 3-400 Jews lived in Japan.

    re:.34
    
>    RE .33
>    
>    You say the Japanese blamed their economic troubles on the Jews......
>    
>    How many Jews could there possibly be living in Japan to blame
>    their troubles on??

    I don't think that's the question.  They're xenophobic, so the Jews
    who live in Japan probably aren't the "enemy", it's the same old
    "world Communist-Jewish conspiracy" or whatever you call it garbage.
    Henry Ford said the same stuff (and is praised in Mein Kampf) but
    had Jews on his personal staff.  Nah, they were the "good Jews",
    not the distant ones who musta been causing all the trouble.  Now
    Japan is so tied in with the rest of the world that some of its
    loonies are picking up old European prejudices.  What else is new?
    up European prejudices.

re .33

>> Spain was a haven for Jews.  Franco decreed that all Jews of Spanish
>> ancestry (which went back to the 1400's and wasn't easy to disprove)
>> were welcome.

    A haven, I think is a slight exaggeration. 

    Franco didn't kick escaping Jews out, as did such modern countries as
    Switzerland. However Spain did turn a blind eye to German "troops"
    crossing the border from France and "rounding-up" such people as had
    managed to escape from France. 

    My father tells me how after crossing the mountains from France with
    his family, they were imprisoned by the Spanish army/police. By means
    of bribery they were able to escape from the local prison before a
    German round-up. Others who were not to lucky were taken back. 

    But you are right ... at least Spain didn't refuse entry !!
    
    					.... Monty (who_was_glad_he_escaped)
    

>Spain was a haven for Jews.  Franco decreed that all Jews of Spanish
>ancestry (which went back to the 1400's and wasn't easy to disprove)
>were welcome.

Doesn't anybody find Franco's beneficence towards the Jews slightly 
contradictory with his character, ideology, etc.?  Even though he may have
acted in a more positive manner than the Swiss, I'll never praise the 
"Caudillo".

David (ever the anti-fascist)

    RE:  .36
    
    > it's the same old "world Communist-Jewish conspiracy"....
    
    Well, I must be very naive; I was under the impression that the
    Japanese people, being older, wiser, sensitive and Xenophobic, never
    really did go in for that old European line of Merde!
    
    If indeed what you say is correct, then I feel very hurt and betrayed
    and angry!  I guess that I just don't expect this kind of thing
    from the Japanese.
    

From Felipe Torroba Bernaldo de Quir�s, "The Spanish Jews".  Grammatical
errors are in the original.

"In the first post-war [Spanish Civil War] days, in view of the attitude
the Hebrew had adopted [they were on the Republican side], there was
an understandable anti-Jewish feeling in Spain.  In 1942, all the premises
and synagogues of the Hebrew community were closed.  Subsequently,
Nationalist spain nobly held out her hand to the Jews and saved thousands
of refugees until Himmler's arrival at Madrid, in 1940 visas for transit
were issued to Jews to pass through our country.  Soon afterwards, Hitler's
Germans prevented the Jews from leaving, and those who did enter later
were interned in concentration camps.

"After the occupation of France by the German troops, some 12,000 Jews
fled to Spain; they were admitted without checks on their passports
and visas.  Some had to be detained, but in the end they were all set
free and helped to emigrate to other countries.  The same happened to
those who crossed the Hispano-French frontier illegally, with the help
of the Resistance."