Conference taveng::bagels

    Sounds like a one-paragraph job to me (:-).
    
    David

    Don't eat it unless the Rabbi put his mark on it.
    Exceptions include fruit, vegetables, and some fish.
    
    Simple?
    
    

    This reminds me of a Rabbi that we had when I lived in Rhodesia
    (Zimbabwe) at the time. 
    A friend of his went over to his house one day for lunch and to
    make a long story short, found that he was eating a ham sandwich.
    He confronted the Rabbi with this, and was told by the Rabbi that
    he wanted to see what he was missing in tasting a non-kosher product.
    
    Needless to say that his tenure was terminated quite quickly...

    Re .2
    
    That's not always the case. There is a gelatin product on the market
    called Ko-jell. This product is made from the bones of non-kosher
    animals. The conservative rabbi who puts his name on the box claims
    that gelatin is so transformed and different from the bones of the
    animal that it is a "new" substance.
    
    Kosher gelatin hasn't been made in the US for years simply because
    of the cost.
    
    To make a long story short... if you see the name of a rabbi on
    a product, find out what his standards of koshrus are. They be
    different than yours.
    
    			Fred
    

>           That's not always the case. There is a gelatin product on the market
>    called Ko-jell. This product is made from the bones of non-kosher
>    animals. The conservative rabbi who puts his name on the box claims
>    that gelatin is so transformed and different from the bones of the
>    animal that it is a "new" substance.
>    
>    Kosher gelatin hasn't been made in the US for years simply because
>    of the cost.
>    
>    To make a long story short... if you see the name of a rabbi on
>    a product, find out what his standards of koshrus are. They be
>    different than yours.

       
       
       
       At least in preparing rennet used in cheese manufacture,
       the principle of "transforming" a non-kosher meat related
       product to a usable form is based on Jewish law.  Perhaps
       the same situation applies to the making of gelatin. 
       
       As I remember it, the key to the process is the drying of
       the original substance until it is no longer recognizable
       and is absolutely dry.  The controversy in the US is based
       on a disagreement about whether the process is done properly,
       not whether the process is according to the laws of Kashruth.
                    
       Another complicating factor is that gelatin can be made from
       all vegetable products.  I thought Kosher gelatin was prepared
       that way. 
       
       Since there are many products on the market that contain Kosher
       gelatin, are you implying that only Conservative rabbis would
       certify them?  Since these products are often sold in Kosher
       butcher shops, does that mean the responsible rabbinic
       authorities are not doing their job? 
       
       I would be very interested in the source of your information
       about Kojel. 
       
       
                      
      --Julian       
       

       Another complicating factor is that gelatin can be made from
       all vegetable products.  I thought Kosher gelatin was prepared
       that way. 
       
Vegetable substitutes are usually identified by their chemical name,
e.g., agar agar.  "Kosher gelatin" is apparently an animal product.

       Since there are many products on the market that contain Kosher
       gelatin, are you implying that only Conservative rabbis would
       certify them?  Since these products are often sold in Kosher
       butcher shops, does that mean the responsible rabbinic
       authorities are not doing their job? 
       
Depends on whether the supervision extends to food products prepared
in the store, such as raw or barbecued poultry, or to all products sold
on the premises.  Ask, and make certain you get an unambiguous answer.

    
    I am confused...
    
    I was talking to a friend of mine who is going to start keeping
    a kosher kitchen.  She is marrying a very religious man
    and has joined a very religious community.  She mentioned to
    me that some people will not eat at her house if her
    Kashrut is not up to their requirements.  This I understand,
    no problem.  What confused me is that she said that some will
    not eat at her house if she does not keep the Sabbath.  Does
    anyone know why this would be?  I don't see the connection
    between the laws about the Sabbath and the laws of Kashrut...
    
    Thanks,
    Amy

    I think the idea is that if you are lax about Shabbas, you might also
    be lax about kashruth.  Or, you might serve food that you had cooked on
    Shabbas, even though the ingredients and utensils were OK.  It's a very
    strict interpretation!
    
    /Charlotte

There are two halachic problems I can think of, food prepared on Shabbos
in contravention of the laws of Shabbos, and wine.

It's forbidden to eat food that's cooked on Shabbos.

If a non-Jew or a non-observant Jew handles wine that's not mevushal (cooked),
it's forbidden to drink it.  Most wine these days is mevushal, but I remember
that the waiters at Cafe Shalom used to have the owner open and pour certain
bottles of wine.

In addition to the halachic problems, I think there's also a problem of trust.
If someone is lax about Shabbos, why should I believe they're not lax about
kashrus?

Notes collision, almost word for word!

    
    Thanks...  
    
    its not a decision I would make but I could understand
    how someone could make that decision.  To each his
    own...
    
    Amy
    

    Hi All,
    
    What does Kosher mean ?  I have read a number of entries and you all
    seem to know what it means but no one has explained it in simple terms. 
    I am not a Jew so I would like a simple explaination.
    
    My doctor in England would not eat or drink anything at anyones house
    why is that ?  Also certain dishes could only used to cook certain
    foods, is this true ?  What is a Kosher drink (I bought a dink made in 
    Israel and it had Kosher written) ?  Does Kosher refer to food and
    drink or other things also ?  What are the ethics behind the Kosher
    laws ?  I have other questions to ask I hope you can help me better
    understand the laws, assume that I know nothing about Kosher.
    
    I hope that I have been Kosher :-) !!!
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil

Wow!

It requires considerable explanation and I won't be able to do it justice 
but here is a start.

It applies both to food and drink And how they are prepared.  Obviously, 
any food on the forbidden list is unkosher.  To the best of my knowledge 
this means that kosher is:
	Meat -- must have a cloven hoof and chew its own cud.
	Fish -- must have scales

As far as preparation, normally kosher meat is not kosher if it is not 
ritually slain.  That is-- with a sharp knife across the neck for an 
instant kill.  (Much more here but for starters this can do).

Food served on plates that held unkosher food is no longer kosher.  That 
would explain your doctor friend's behaviour.

In addition, meat and dairy cannot be served together.  There is a time 
separation between the eating of the two which is on the order of hours 
(3-6 hours).

As I said, there is much, much more -- but this was a BRIEF synopsis.

Shelly

The word "kosher" means "OK to use". Food is "kosher" if it comes from a kosher
source, is prepared according to the correct rituals, is cooked in kosher
cookware, served on kosher dishes, and is a kosher mixture. See .13 for
partial details. Ritual items (such as a Torah) are "kosher" if they are
properly made and in good condition.

An orthodox Jew would not eat at your house because he would presume that your
dishes and utensils were unkosher, not to mention the food items. You might
get him to eat raw vegetables or fruit served on paper plates, or non-grape
beverages served in disposable cups. Maybe not. I'm sorry to report that such a
person wouldn't eat at my house either.

Dave

The laws of Kashrus are based on what's stated in the Torah.  They are
the kind of laws known as "chukim," meaning they have no rational explanation
(unlike the law prohibiting murder).

In a nutshell:

Mammals are kosher if they have a cloven hoof and chew the cud (e.g. cattle,
sheep, goats, deer, bison, giraffes...).

Birds are kosher if they have a tradition of being kosher.  This is because
the Torah has a list of birds that aren't kosher, and we don't know what all
the words mean.  Kosher birds include chickens, turkeys (according to most
authorities), some kinds of ducks (but not mallards), pigeons, and geese.

Both mammals and birds must be ritually slaughtered.  They must also be
"kashered" to remove blood (blood itself is not kosher).  Kashering meat
involves salting and soaking it in water.  Meat that is broiled over heat
does not need to be kashered since the roasting process draws out the blood.
Liver must be broiled over heat since the blood cannot be removed by salting
and soaking.

There's a sinew in the hind quarters of mammals that is not kosher.  Because
it's difficult to remove, hind quarters are generally not sold as kosher in
the U.S. and other countries where there's a market for non-kosher meat.
My understanding is that in Israel, it's economically feasible to remove
this sinew.

Meat and dairy products may not be cooked or eaten together.  Utensils that
are used for one may not be used for the other.  It's necessary to wait for
a period after eating meat before eating dairy but not vice versa.  This
time period varies depending on custom (6 hours, 3 hours, 1 hour).

Fish are kosher if they have fins and scales.  The scales have to be on the
adult fish.

There are two kinds of locusts that are kosher, but only Yemenite Jews have
a tradition as to which two types they are.

All other animals are not kosher (pigs, horses, reptiles, amphibians, rodents,
shellfish, sharks, sturgeon, swordfish, insects other than the two types of
locusts, etc.).  Products of non-kosher animals (milk, eggs, etc.) are not
kosher.

Utensils that have been used for non-kosher food may not be used.

Grape juice and products made from it (wine, grape jelly, etc.) may not be
used if they have been handled in raw form by non-Jews or non-religious Jews.
If they are cooked or there is a double seal on the package, they may be
handled by non-Jews.