Conference taveng::bagels

    
    >Mikhail Gorbechev is no different than Adolf Hitler! The
    >concentration camps have been replaced by prisons. The yellow star
    >on the arm has been replaced by "JEW" on the passport. And the
    >general anti-Semitic policy of the government has been replaced by
    >repressive laws. 
    
    Well I wouldn't go so far as to compare Gorbachov to Hitler, that's
    a bit far-fetched.  You can not blame one bureaucrat for Soviet 
    anti-semitism, it's something that pre-dates the Bolshevik revolution
    by a few hundred years.  I can't claim to know this first-hand, but 
    my mother was born in, and lived for quite a few years in the Soviet Union 
    before emigrating, and her family were victims of it.

    The origins of Russian anti-semitism can be found within the Orthodox
    church.  The priests literally brainwashed an illiterate peasant
    population into believing the famous "Jewish blood libel", i.e., we
    were responsible for the death of j.c.  As with any type of racism, it
    was generated to keep the "people's" minds off what was really happening
    in Russian society.

    At the onset of the revolution, the Bolsheviks actually implemented a 
    law outlawing racism.  I think that this law was proposed by the more 
    liberal, and Jewish members of the party.  But old habits die hard, and
    racism was never eliminated from the party or Soviet society.  Despite
    the change of uniform, anti-semitism has stayed very much alive.  After
    WWII it reacquired a violent face again, with many purges and executions.
    The "doctor's plot" in which many Soviet Jewish doctors were executed
    on charges of plotting to assasinate Josef Stalin took place in post-war
    Russia. The Soviet Yiddish theatre was all but obliterated, especially
    with the mysterious death of it's most famous member, Shlomo Mikoels.
    Scores of other Jewish intellectuals suffered similar fates.

    The reason that I boycott Soviet products, is not because of Communism,
    I couldn't care less about Communism.  It's Soviet anti-semitism that
    is my reason.  I'm not interested in joining any commie bashing.

    David  
         

re: -1


   > The reason that I boycott Soviet products, is not because of Communism,
   > I couldn't care less about Communism.  It's Soviet anti-semitism that
   > is my reason.  I'm not interested in joining any commie bashing.

     
	David, 
		Are you saying that the only fault you find with the
	Soviet Union is anti-semitism ?

		I would hope that your sensitivities are not that narrowly
	focused.

David
	
	       

    Fred Liss is just the same as Joseph McCarthy.  There, my $.25 worth!
    
    Come on, Fred, let's hold back on the hyperbole.  Gorbachev is a
    Russian like all the others, as .1 points out.  My grandparents
    left the Russian empire several years before the Bolsheviks took
    over, and the Czars oppressed Jews too.  If you want to look at
    history, you may discover that a Jew named Trotsky thought he was
    next in line after Lenin, but got outmaneuvered by a Georgian named
    Stalin.  Anti-semitism was politically opportune for Stalin, and
    he didn't have to invent it.
    
    What really galls me is people who make up syllogisms like,
    
    	Russia oppresses Jews;
    	Russia is run by the Communist Party;
        Communism is on the left side of the spectrum;
    	liberal Democrats are on the left side of the spectrum;
        	therefore
    	liberal Democrats are anti-Jewish fans of the "Ruskies".
    
    This is garbage, but leads to all sorts of red-baiting trash from
    the know-nothings (other than Talmud) of the Jewish community. 
    
    The syllogism fails the standard test, and its use to support
    right-wing oppressors (like Falwell, who bamboozled the Israeli
    Govt. a few years ago) is dreck too.
    
    We can dislike Russia (whose "Communism" is a pathetic distortion
    of Marx' ideal anyway and really just a different form of monarchy)
    and its anti-Semetic policies without supporting every right-wing
    tinhorn who knows how to yell "Commie" at anything which takes away
    his own ill-gotten wealth and power.
           fred

    I'm concerned at the oppression of Jews whereever they may be.
    It's not that I'm narrow minded - other things also interest me,
    but being Jewish I'm very much aware of a sort of affinity 
    that I feel with my 'relations' all over the world. As many Jewish
    people know, had our ancestors taken another path it could be
    'me' at the brunt of oppression. I could now be in Russia.
    
    The problem for Jews in the Soviet Union is they have become
    a baromater of the state of East-West relations. In the West we
    know that we can be of some help, but there is a doubt that 
    any good will result. If we don't demonstrate, write, etc..., then
    their plight will probably be demoted. If we do all these things
    then I get the feeling that they will only do as well as Gorbachov
    Reagan relations allow.
    
    Lets not just blame communism for antisemitism. Argentia, Iran and
    Syria are countries that I know of where the Jewish communities
    have had a rough time in recent years. These are not all communist
    (and I'm sure there are more).
     
    Fred, if as a Jew you wish to pursue any political idea I would
    suggest one of anti-extremism. I also think that you should look
    at the types of oppression that may exist around you. What pressures
    make Jews deny their herritage, assimilate, or non-observant. I'm
    sure that these are issues that concern you, and ones that you could
    directly effect.

    Malcolm

       	If it were not for Russia, DEC stocks would not be as high as
    they are today. See, Russia threw my father out in 1916 when he
    was 7 years old. My father had me 48 years ago. I started to work
    for DEC 3 years ago. DEC stocks have dramatically risen in the past
    3 years. Therefore if it were not for Russia -- GOTO TOP_OF_LOOP

Re: .0
    	Fred, hope you feel better having gotten this off your chest.
    
    re: .4 
    
    This week it's the USSR
    	before then, Germany, 
    			Russia (Tzarist)
    			   Turkey
    				France (Dreyfus...)
    				   Spain
    					Rome
    						Assyria
    							Egypt
    AND, don't forget the KLAN in Alabama, the &^$%$*$% Brotherhood
    in Washington state and Nebraska.
    
    Face it... like it or not, we are SCAPEGOATS. If one of us wants
    to bitch about the current tormentor, good for him - he probably
    feels much better for it.
    
    Rich