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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

231.0. "Kenya and Zionism" by SYSENG::VANSICLEN (Garrett, LSEE - Maynard, MA) Fri Nov 14 1986 10:28

    
    Is it true that Kenya was once the original spot picked for 
    Israel, before the Palestine?
         
    I am sketchy on the details.  Zionism started in the late 1800s, correct?
    Can some general stements be made as to Orthodox, Refomed and Conservative
    to Zionism?  I have been told by (Jewish) friends that the Zionism
    has broken some families.  Is this a rare extreme?
                        
    Pardon my ignorance.
    
    garrett
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231.1LSMVAX::ROSENBLUHFri Nov 14 1986 15:2877
There are books! nay, shelves of books! written which do nothing
but answer the questions you ask.  Are you anti-reading?  If not,
maybe you would consider reading a history of modern Judaism - there
are many popular one-volume versions, usually available even in
Waldenbooks-type places.

Very very briefly:

Before World War I, Palestine belonged to the Ottoman Empire.
After the war, the winning side (the Allies) got to split up alot
of territory that had previously been ruled by the losing side 
(mainly, the German and the Ottoman Empires).  Britain got Palestine,
Trans-Jordan and a bunch of other stuff around the world, including
parts of Africa they hadn't had before.

During World War I, Britain, in a document called "The Balfour Declaration"
promised to establish "a Jewish homeland in Palestine". They did this
for a variety of reasons. 

It turned out to be a mistake (from the British Foreign Office point-of-view),
because it turned out that Arab sentiment
was very strongly against this.  And it turned out that Britain for lots
of reasons really didn't want to piss off Arab sentiment.  

So, for a brief period, Britain suggested that perhaps instead of a
Jewish homeland in Palestine, Jews might prefer to establish a homeland
in some other piece of territory, which was not an object of contention
among people whom the Brits needed/wanted to keep friendly.   And,
it turned out that there was just such a piece of territory tucked away
in another part of the British Empire, _Uganda_ (not Kenya).   Uganda
was fertile, beautiful, not heavily populated (neither was Palestine, 
actually) and the Brits were not nearly as antsy about offending black
natives of Uganda as they were antsy about offending Arab friends.

The World Zionist Org. considered this proposal, it had some proponents,
and many opponents, and never had a snowball-in-hell's chance of being
accepted.   So,
    
>    Is it true that Kenya was once the original spot picked for 
>    Israel, before the Palestine?
 
No. Notice, Uganda wasn't "the original spot" either, just a crazy
idea someone came up with that got some brief attention.
 

Orthodox, Reform (not 'Reformed', as in 'Reformed Church') and
Conservative are different sects in Judaism.  (Gross oversimplification).
Zionism is the name of the political movement to establish a 
Jewish state.  Being a Zionist does not in any way indicate what
theology or religious sect within Judaism you identify with (if any).
Being a {Orthodox|Reform|Conservative} does not indicate _much_ about
your relationship to Zionism, *as a political movement*, although it
is safe to say that love of the Jewish people and of the historical
Jewish homeland, and recognition of a special relationship between
the Jewish people and Israel, sort of as outlined in the Bible, is
common to all O, R, and C Jews.

>    I am sketchy on the details.  Zionism started in the late 1800s, correct?

As a political movement, yes.  Much of it's appeal, however, was
based on the millenia of strong religious longing and prayers to
have the Jewish people re-established in Israel by God.  The longing
was not _purely_ a messianic future-dream.  Individual Jews did actually
return to Zion all along during the centuries between the end of the
Roman empire and the rise of Zionism.  There was a continuous Jewish
settlement in Israel, and in fact, I think Jerusalem had a Jewish majority
during most of that time.

>    I have been told by (Jewish) friends that the Zionism
>    has broken some families.  Is this a rare extreme?

Are your friends talking about the late 19th century, early-to-mid
20th century, or our generation (i.e., since the establishment
of the state)?  The answer is; not rare, getting rarer, and pretty rare.
The reasons for this are varied, but I gotta go.  
  
	-Kathy
231.2Jewish population in Palestine/Israel...DECEAT::FEINBERGDon FeinbergTue Nov 18 1986 08:2527
re:  .-1

>>>Individual Jews did actually
>>>return to Zion all along during the centuries between the end of the
>>>Roman empire and the rise of Zionism.  There was a continuous Jewish
>>>settlement in Israel, and in fact, I think Jerusalem had a Jewish majority
>>>during most of that time.

Kathy -- great response!

I can't resist adding just one little bit: A year or two ago, I read a copy
of the population statistics for the region that's now Israel, for the period
1800 - 1980, in 10 year granularity.  It gave the Arab vs. Jewish
population for the region and for Jerusalem.  (Unfortunately, I don't 
own the book.  I could probably put my hands on it if I had to...)

I remember a couple of things popping off the page:
	
	1) The Jewish population, in this period, _always_ significantly 
	   exceeded the Arab population for the region.

	2) There have been several "spurts" of Jewish population growth,
	   primarily due to immigration.  When this ocurred, it was
	   followed a few years later by a similar "spurt" in growth of 
	   the Arab population.

/don feinberg