Conference taveng::bagels

>>> ...by a Rabbi that it was OK to do it. The first game was during the
>>>    beginning of Sukkot, and Elie Wiesel wanted to make sure throwing
>>>    out the ball didn't break any rules. GOOD FOR HIM!
    
	Did he really do that?  Wow!
	I wonder what Rabbi he spoke to.  And I wonder _why_!

	The first game, as I recall, was Saturday night, the 18th.
	It's true that "game time" was after Shabbos, but it was
	certainly still Yom Tov -- until Sunday night.

	From a purely "halachic" point of view, he certainly should 
	not have gone to the game.

Set/flame=on
	More to the point:  I think that the whole baseball/football/
	basketball/etc. thing is _way_, _way_ out of proportion here. Sukkot
	-- and the YomTovim -- are simply more important than "the game".
	What is the "lasting value" of the game?

	When the Red Sox were almost eliminated from the playoffs,
	there was "gloom and doom".  Just think: if they _had_ lost 
	that playoff game, there would have been all kinds of gnashing
	of teeth.  But they won, and there was joy beyond anything
	imaginable.

	Questions:  What longterm reality is there to this behavior? Can people
	really be so genuinely happy/sad over one pitch?
	
	Another case: One of the playoff games was held on Sunday, the erev Yom
	Kippur.  That day wasn't Yom Tov.  "Legally", one could have
	watched the game. But that is not even close to the spirit of
	the Yom Kippur.  How could one spend the afternoon watching
	baseball, then get into serious "tshuvah" an hour later?

	If, in fact, Wiesel went to that game, I'm thoroughly disappointed.
	I _know_ that he knows better than that.  Wiesel doesn't have
	to consult a Rav on this issue.
set/flame=off

/d feinberg

    Wiesel did NOT throw out the ball Saturday night... he did it Sunday
    night.  In fact, according to the Monday Globe, they held up the start
    of the game for a few minutes until Eli could come AFTER yom tov.  
      
    The next day in class at BU he appologized for his pitching. (I
    always though yeshiva yingels played ball---isn't that how Danny
    and Reuven met in _The Chosen_?)
    
    ---Av
    

>>>    Wiesel did NOT throw out the ball Saturday night... he did it Sunday
>>>    night.  In fact, according to the Monday Globe, they held up the start
>>>    of the game for a few minutes until Eli could come AFTER yom tov.  

	I'm relieved!  I thought much more of Wiesel, and i couldn't
	believe that he would have thrown out the ball on Yom Tov.

>>>    The next day in class at BU he appologized for his pitching. (I
>>>    always though yeshiva yingels played ball---isn't that how Danny
>>>    and Reuven met in _The Chosen_?)
	    
	Yeah, I think so.

	A former Rabbi of mine now lives in Atlanta.  On Sundays in 
	the summer they learn a little, play a little baseball, learn
	a little, play a little ball, ...

/dlf    

    As I understand the dictate of Sukkot, the Torah says you will "do
    no manner of servile work". This implies that you may not go to
    work. It does not imply a complete day of rest, such as Shabbat
    and Yom Kippur. I believe that Wiesel would have acted properly
    throwing out a ball, since he was not truly at work. The distinction
    here is that Sukkot is not a holiday celebrated as a day of rest.
    
    Jack

    Sukkot is a Yom Tov and, therefore, has all the restrictions of
    Shabbat EXCEPT 1) one can use _existing_ fire for cooking food for
    the Yom Tov meals, and 2) one can carry between private and public
    domains without and eruv.
    
    There are many things that one can do that don't fall EXACTLY within
    the strictures of the of the halacha; h o w e v e r, (there's always
    an 'however') some activities are "prohibited" because they are
    not apropo the "spirit"  and "gestalt" of the day.
    
    There was a major controversy the year before last regarding Harvard's
    commencement ceremonies. They were scheduled for Shavuoth, and even
    though the Administration was notified about it years in advance,
    they couldn't/wouldn't change it.  Even though one is allowed to
    sit and listen to speeches, wear robes and mortarboards, and carry
    diplomas on a yom tov, the consensus of Orthodox Rabbis in the area
    was that a graduation was not in fitting with the leitmotif of the
    day.
    
    ---Av 

    re .5
    
    >Sukkot is a Yom Tov and, therefore, has all the restrictions of
    >Shabbat EXCEPT 1) one can use _existing_ fire for cooking food for
    >the Yom Tov meals, and 2) one can carry between private and public
    >domains without and eruv.

    Avi, I agree with what you say about cooking from an existing
    flame. However, this is a particular situation of a general rule.
    According to the Shulkhan Arukh (pardon my transliterations), on a
    Yom Tov one may perform a mulucha if ones body receives direct
    benefit from the act. We may cook because we derive direct benefit
    from the eating. Lighting a match to light a cooking fire is a
    mulucha before a mulucha. We receive no direct benefit from the
    first mulucha therefore it is forbidden on Yom Tov. By the same
    token we may add wood to the cooking fire but we may not go out to
    chop wood. I love the examples given in the Shulkhan Arukh. After
    giving the previous examples the Shulkhan Arukh goes on to say if
    we are roasting a piece of meat on a spear, and the spear bends or
    breaks we may not fix the spear. 
    
    Many people use the above examples as justification for smoking on
    Yom Tov, provided that you light the cigarette from an existing
    flame. In my opinion we could argue for hours if ones body
    receives direct benefit from smoking.
    
    Something else I learned during study. Did you know that an
    egg born on Shabbos cannot be eaten on Yom Tov?
    
    
                                     Fred
    

    How can an egg be born. A chick is born from an egg when it hatches.
    An egg is only a very large cell wether it is in the hen or under
    the hen.

    I guess what you are referring to is an egg layed on Shabbos.  Then
    can a chicken hatched on Shabbos be eaten on Yom Tov?  What is the
    "why" for this rule?
    
    By the way, Rabbi Avrutick, an orthodox rabbi, told me that smoking
    cigarrettes was a violation of the commandment to "honor the body",
    and therefore was not permitted at all.  

                  		Paul