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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

203.0. "A goy in the temple" by SYSENG::VANSICLEN (Remember when .. ) Tue Sep 30 1986 10:38

    
    Hello,
    
    I am breaking my silent readership for this solicitation of 
    opinions and advice.  What better place than a conference to look 
    for these things?  
                    
    The woman that I date is from New York and though does not go to
    temple regularly (she is, if it makes any difference, a conservative), 
    she always spends Rash Hashanah and Yom Kippur in the temple.  It
    makes her sad that she can not spend the holidays with her family.  
    This is accentuated by spending the full days in temple and the walk 
    home alone.           
    
    I have offered to go with her.  I have not offered to spend the
    full time with her because I feel it would be hypocritical of me.
    I haven't attended a Methodist service (my religious background)
    service in many years, though I have attended services in others
    (Catholic in the northern end of Yugoslavia, Lutheran, Unitarian)
    out of interest.  I am NOT atheist.
    
    What should I expect and what will be expected of me?  Will there
    be yarmulkes supplied for goys like myself?  Is there a time when
    it is best that I am there?  When would I learn the most?  Instead 
    of asking questions, I suppose I'll leave the forum open to all that 
    wish to comment.  We have talked about it (slightly) but I'd like to
    get a broader view of opinions (though I may not heed a one) and
    maybe some experiences of any one who has done this.
                 
        garrett
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203.1It's EASYYOUNG::YOUNGTue Sep 30 1986 13:2143
    A few words of advice.
    
    Wear a yarmulke if everyone else does, which they probably will
    in a conservative synagogue.  They will supply them; there will
    probably be a box of them somewhere.
    
    They might also supply tallasim (that's the plural of tallis),
    which are the prayer shawls.  It's not necessary to wear one,
    and you will see plenty of people who don't.
    
    Many of the people who will be there are people who only go to temple
    for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur.  So don't worry about not knowing
    what is going on.
    
    Saturday morning services are probably going to be the most crowded.
    Also, they will not blow the shofar (ram's horn) on Saturday.  You
    might want to go Friday night and then Sunday morning.  If your
    friend does tashlich, you can accompany her for that.
    
    On Yom Kippur, if the temple has a good cantor, go for the first
    night; Kol Nidre.  It's not too long a service, and the chanting
    should be worth listening to.  The concluding service of N'elah
    has a long time when everyone stands.  In orthodox synagogues this
    can last for 45 minutes. If your friend is going to fast for Yom
    Kippur, you might want to arrange a nice dinner afterwards. 
    
    Your friend may have certain services she prefers.  If one of her
    parents has died, she will almost certainly want to be at the Yizkor
    (memorial) service.
    
    Other than that, the only thing you might find a bit tough is all
    that Hebrew.  Depending on the prayerbook, some prayers may be
    "transliterated".  Some people find it hard to read the
    transliterations though, you will see why.  There will be plenty
    of people there who also don't grok Hebrew, you won't be alone.
    Most prayerbooks also have the translation which you can read to
    yourself while other people are reading the Hebrew aloud.
    
    Relax, and when after the holidays put your impressions here - I'm
    always curious as to how it looks from a different perspective.
    
    			Paul Young
    
203.2If anyone asks you anything, just tell them you're a Goy.DSSDEV::CHASENTue Sep 30 1986 16:4230
    Garrett,
    
    Go.  Be welcome.  Enjoy yourself.
    
    Wear a Yarmulke.  The synagogue will have one for you at the entrance
    to the sanctuary. Don't wear a Tallis (Prayer shawl).  Pick up a prayer
    book and when you get bored, look through it for the readings, etc.
    Stand up when everyone else sits up, sit down etc.  Otherwise, don't
    worry about it. 
    
    I'd suggest going to the first evening services for Rosh Hashonah and
    Yom Kippur.  If your friend doesn't go to Shul for all of the holidays
    either, she will likely want to return for the end of the Yom Kippur
    service (just before Sundown).  Rely on your friend for advice. 
    
    As to what you're going to encounter, that's hard to say.  Mostly
    it depends on the individual Synagogue.  Services vary widely in
    tenor, scope, and ambiance.  I've been thinking of all the different
    traditions i've seen and it's probably better to just not get into
    it.  
    
    As far as learning anything, it depends on what you don't know.
    The flavor of the service is similar throughout (it gets more energetic
    at the end).  Probably the only information you couldn't pick up
    by reading the english pages in the prayer book will be in the Rabbi's
    sermon.                                                        
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Harris.
203.3ESPN::NEWFIELDWed Oct 01 1986 19:2219
    Garrett,
    
    Good for you.  What a nice way for you to help start off the New
    Year for both you and your friend.
    
    I hope that your friend has checked with the Synagogue to see if
    there are particular seats that are specified for individuals. 
    On the High Holidays there are many places that are specifically
    reserved. (Not so in mine)
    
    I suggest that if most people are wearing a Tallis you may want
    to as well (Most if not all do in mine... so do some of the woman).
    Definitly wear the Yarmulke.
    
    I'm so glad you are going.  A Happy New Year to you... (& everyone
    else of course)
    
    - Sandy
    
203.4John Carroll -- what a concept!RICKS::KRAVITZTerrapinSat Oct 11 1986 20:5116
    The above advice is all good, although I have been places which
    weren't too happy with an adult not wearing a tallis; I'm sure anyone
    would understand, though, because you're not Jewish.
    
    I don't think you need to feel hypocritical about attending services.
    I went to a Catholic high school and attended school masses four
    or five times a year.  I just didn't cross myself, take communion,
    or say anything which was particularly Christian, as opposed to
    Judeo-Christian.  It was one of the most enriching experiences I've
    ever had (although I suppose Yeshiva would have been, too).
    
    Since then, I've gone to masses (usually a midnight mass at Easter)
    with friends once or twice.  Attending alternate religious services
    can be one of the best ways to increase understanding between faiths.
    
    Dave
203.5There are a few of us...ARGUS::CURTISDick 'Aristotle' CurtisFri Oct 24 1986 12:1526
    A friend was threatening to bring me along to the service for Simcha
    Torah (hope I spelled it correctly). But it looks like something's
    come up and she won't be able to go, which is a little disappointing.
    
    I too am not Jewish; I have some sympathies (and some of what I've
    seen of y'all seems kinda familiar). One thing I noticed recently
    was a scene in a cable movie "Lies My Father Told Me" (about a kid
    pulled between his 'modern' father [of the '30s] and his immigrant
    grandfather); if I got it straight, the father & grandfather had
    the kid's week-old brother in a service connected with the bris.
    There was an assembly of perhaps 12 or 20 men wearing prayer shawls
    and they (a little) and the rabbi (mostly) were chanting the various
    elements of the service, in a language I don't speak (Hebrew, or
    Yiddish?). It took me about 3 seconds to remember a Byzantine Catholic
    Mass I'd been to -- it uses the good old-fashioned Greek Liturgy,
    but does it in Old Church Slavonic (the vernacular of the Balkans
    ca. 900 or 1200 C.E.). The kick was that the style of the chanting
    in the Jewish service sounded awfully familiar (when I remembered
    the Slavonic service).
    
    Apologies if I got that description wrong -- I don't have any
    familiarity with that sort of thing. (And I came in in the middle
    of things.)
    
    Dick
    
203.6Learning through DiversityPCOJCT::MAKWed Sep 25 1991 20:2414
    Through marriage changes, my family has both Roman Catholic and
    European Jewish members.  
    
    Exposure to both of the religions is greatly encouraged by our entire
    family.  I am Roman Catholic and all of my siblings are Jewish. 
    Understanding eachother's religion is necessary to our relationships! 
    Perhaps we share more because of our differences.  
    
    The differences in religion cause no problems in our family.  We all
    respect eachother's beliefs.  The lessons we have learned from just
    learning, exposure and respect help us to live in the world!  I feel 
    very lucky.