Conference taveng::bagels

    The following was sent to me by Bruce Cohen from NY.  I found that
    interesting and with his permission I am posting it here.
    
    Edited to remove personal references.
    
    Leo Simon
    


    
1) The syntax of the term is sort of like -  He is a Hasid, They are hassidim,
	They are a hassidic sect, or he is hassidic.  The term origionaly
	meant 'pious' and was used in speaking of elder sages of the 
	Babaylonian academies c.200-600 ce.

2) For reading material, Martin Buber is probably the literary authority
	on hassidism, although there are numerous other works, one in
	particular is called '9 1/2 Mystics' I don't know the author 
	off hand but I can try to find out.

3) Hassidism was a direct offshoot of European turbulence in the 1600-1700
	timeframe.  Earlier in the century ther had been a false messiah
	who entranced much of European and Middle Eastern Judaism by the name
	of Shabbtai Tzvi.  After his conversion to Islam (the Turkish sultan
	offered him Islam or death) Jewry was in a state of shock and as a 
	result the Mystical elements of the religion were put on a back burner
	and there was a tremendous increase in secular and legal judaism.
	There arose in the mid-1600's a man called Israel Baal Shem Tov who
	was a grass roots Mystic and started bringing mystical teachings to 
	the commoner peasants of Russia and Poland who were left out of the
	famous polish and German academies.

    Basically the gentleman Israel Baal Shem Tov (Israel of the good name) 
was a grass roots Mystic/Kabbalist who was trying to get the main peasantry
of Eastern Europe to feel a certain affinity and closeness to the Divine.  
As I said at the time the great institutes of learning in such place as 
Vienna, Vilna, Prague et al., were not concerned with the masses but
rather the intellectual elite and those that could be accepted to the
schools.  Also remember that at that time Judaism took a sharp turn from
the Kabbalistic/Mystical inclination and concentrated heavily on secular 
and legalistic application of the law.  Even the Zohar a main text of the 
Kabbalists discoverwed sometime before, was approached as an intellectual 
excercise and not with a purley Mystical aspect.  The Baal Shem Tov as he 
is called, went travelling around E. Europe teaching that feeling close 
to G-d is more important than studying dry law.  He also taught methods of 
meditation and esctatascism (sp?) whereby his followers could get the 
spiritual rush they couldn't get elsewhere.  (Meditation is an inherent 
part of Biblical and Mystical Judaism, Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan has some
excellent books on the topic [Jewish Meditation being an excellent primer] 
which due to sociologic and historic reasons, much has been lost to us.
	
	The B.S.T. and his followers angered the major rabbi's of the day
by their attitudes toward law (ie: by getting psyched up and close to
G-d before praying they might transgress the law of praying by a specific
time, the rabbi's say definately not and they said 'Of Course you can).
It got to the point that the Hassidim were excommunicated, considered 
heretics and generally not accepted.  The people against them were called
Mitnagdim - those who oppose, the head of which was the famous Vilna Gaon.
They felt that the Hassidim would be like other offshoot sects and be dangerous
particularly being only a few gen. after Shabbtai Tzvi.  Gradually there were
some conciliations between the two groups but not really until W.W.II
when the Nazi's wiped out most of Europes population of jews inc. most of 
the more staunch Mitnagdim, also afterward it really didn't seem to make
much difference anyhow.  Like most good things, they usually get changed
and not usually forthe better (this is my opinion as opposed to the previous
history), Hassidism over the years has developed into numerous groups
each holding allegiance to their particular Rebbe who came in a direct line
from the origional rebbe's who were students of the B.S.T.. Surprisingly
the B.S.T. doesn't seem to be held in regard as high as the Rebbe.
I personally have a few problems with this. It strikes me as a very Christian
concept placing the rebbe as your intermediary to the Divine, i don't buy
that.  Many Hassidim do, they hold him in an almost dangerously high place.
I also think that except for a few friendly groups, many hassidim don't
think of regular ol Jews as being Jewish.  If your rabbi is as he sounds he's 
probably one of the friendly ones (like Lubavitch) otherwise he probably
wouldn't even recognize you.  Also on a final note todays Hassidim really don't
have the same Mystical tradition as their predecessors.  They still have some
but really have become more like the Mitnagdim in placing the Talmud and
the cut & dry legalistic aspect of Judaism in a higher light.  Let me know
the name of the Rabbi as I have some friends from Lubavitch in Mass. and
it might be family.

Hope i haven't gotten to preachy or soap boxy but I'm into Jewish
History and Sociology and i can talk when give a forum.

    My only knowledge of the Hassidim is from personal experience.
    There is a fairly large Lubovitch community in Worcester. 
    
    In the early 1700's Rabbi Shneir Zolman of Ladi (sp?) was unhappy
    with the state of Jewish worship and the fact that Judaism was
    becoming a religion of the elite. As mentioned in the previous
    reply, he based hid philosophy around the mystical side of
    Judaism. His major work, _Tanya_ , is still studied today in
    Lubovitch institutions. He also simplified the sidur in use at the
    time. A slightly modified version of his sidur is in wide use
    today as _Sidur Thilat H"_. 
    
    What was not mentioned in the previous reply, is that the
    Lubovitch Hasidum also base their lifestyle on the joy of carrying
    out mitzvohs, the love one Jew inherently has for another, the
    importance of family and community life. I have found that a
    Lubovitch shul is not just a place where one goes on Shabbos. The
    shul is the center of the community. Our children go to school
    there, we go there to dovin, to learn, to study, and to meet
    friends socially. 
    
    The Lubovitch have a dynastic leadership. Today Rabbi Manachim
    Shneirson also known simply as The Rebi, is the seventh descendant
    of the first Rebi. Their headquarters are located at 770 Eastern
    Parkway Brooklyn NY. I was down there a few weeks ago to see the
    Rebi and it was a wonderful experience. I'm tempted to go into a
    description of the Crown Hights area of Brooklyn on a Sunday
    afternoon but that could be the topic of another note. I could
    probably go on and on with stories and personal experiences so
    I'll stop here. This is definitely something which you must
    experience for yourself. 
    
    			Fred
     
    PS - I'll answer the question before someone asks. "No, I am not
    Lubovitch". 
    

    Just to give a few more tidbits from memory, 
    
    The Lubavitchers (sp?) are probably the best known Hasidic group
    in the US, and have many shuls, including Chabad House in Boston
    (near B.U.).  Another group, the Satmar hasidim, is found mostly
    in Brooklyn and Rockland County, NY -- they own the Village of New
    Square (New Skver, anglicized) which closes its gate on shabbos.
    The two groups do not get along at all!  There have been reports
    of gang warfare in Brooklyn between them, although that is more
    likely to be the exception.  Both groups also have contingents in
    Jerusalem, but the Satmarers are anti-Zionist and do not recognize
    the State of Israel, while the Lubavichers do.
    
    The Bostoner hasidim, based in Brookline, are independent of the
    others and have a reputation for being very friendly and open. 
    There are probably other local groups too.

    
    Fred,
    
    	Rabbi Shneir Zalman of Ladi was one the Baal Shem Tov's disciples.
    Along with other notables as Rabbi Nachman of Breslov et al.
    The next time you come to N.Y. please give me a call.
    
    P.S. You might have found it an amazing site, Crown Heights on
    a Sunday, but coming from Boro Park after 20 years, there are many
    other places i would rather be. (Too many baby carriages)
    
    P.P.S. The moonkatch are another group who don't recognize Israel
    and actively fight the Govt.
    
    Bruce
    

I re-stumbled across this note recently and remembered a vague promise
I had made to myself to correct some of the misinformation presented
herein.

a.) Source material on hassidim:
Anon.	"In Praise of the Baal Shem Tov" 
This book consists of stories about the Besht (the acronym of his name
in Hebrew is B-Sh-T, and it is pronounced thus) collected and published
by the first generation of his students. 

R. Nahman of Bratslav's "The Tales of Rav Nahman". 

Martin Buber's "Tales of the Hassidim"

Gershom Scholem's essays on Hassidism in "Essays on Jewish Mysticism"
	and "The Messianic Idea in Judaism".  Also there is a famous essay 
	by Scholem against Buber's romanticizing misinterpretation of Hasidism
	which can be found in J. Goldin's (ed.) collection of essays on Jewish
	thought, avail. in paperback, I forget the name.

Arthur Green's "Rabbi Nahman of Bratslav: The Tormented Master"

There is a recently published study of R. Nahman's tales by Adin Steinsaltz.

Eli Weisel's 2 books of Hassidic stories.

Recent book called "Holy Days", by Liz x (mind slipped again), which first
	appeared, serialized, in "The New Yorker" magazine, in 1985.
	Book tells of the lifestyle and beliefs of a Lubavitch family. Also
	gives brief historical overview of Hasidism.

"9 1/2 Mystics" is actually a _wonderful_ book about Kabbalah today, and its
	modern practitioners,  not so much about Hasidism.  

========================================================================
First of all, about R. Israel Baal Shem Tov's name: translating it as
'R. Israel of the good name' doesn't quite make it.

Baal Shem Tov means "Master of the Good Name".   The 'Good Name' in question
is God's name, and to be its Master means, 'to have magical powers'.So to speak.

The Besht's dates are 1700-1760!  Hassidism 'started' immediately after his 
death, at about the same time as the Haskalah (the "Jewish Enlightenment")!
The important students of the Besht are R. Jacob Joseph of Polnoye,
R. Baer of Mezeritch (the Maggid of Mezeritch), and R. Nahman.
(I think R. Shneur Zalman of Ladi is actually second-generation after the Besht.
Thus Lubavitch Hassidism, which he founded, would date back to the early 
decades of the 19th c.)

Rather than go thru the previous replies correcting dates (which are often
off by entire centuries) here is a very broad outline/timeline for medieval 
and early modern Jewish history to help anchor a discussion of Hassidism, etc. 
in reality.

1040-1105  Rashi's dates
 1096   Massacre of Jews in Rhineland, in wake of Crusades, begins
 1182   Expulsion from France
1150-1250  German hasidim flourish (R. Judah the Pious, Elazar of Worms, etc)

~1200   Sefer HaBahir, early Kabbalistic work, is written in Provence.
 1202	Death of Maimonides
1230's (approx) Nahmanides (Ramban) writing commentary to Bible which 
	incorporates many Kabbalistic ideas.
~1280	Zohar is 'discovered'

 1348   Beginning of Black Death

 1492	Expulsion from Spain 

1520-1609  are the Maharal's dates 
	(R. Judah Loew of Prague, the legendary creator of the Golem)
~1560's The great period of the development of Lurianic Kabbalah in Safed. 
	R. Isaac Luria (the Ari), R. Moshe Cordovero, R. Hayim Vital;
 1564   R. Yosef Caro's "Shulchan Aruch" is published


 1648   Chmielnitzki uprising, massacre of many Jewish communities in
	Eastern Europe follows.
 1665 	Shabbtai Zevi acclaimed as Messiah 
 1666   Sh. Z. converts to Islam, "Sabbatians" go underground


 1760   The Baal Shem Tov dies.
 1772   The Vilna Gaon makes strong, public attacks on Hassidism
 1780's Important Hassidic works published; the Maggid of Mezeritch's
	 Likkutei Amorim, and Sefer Toldot Yakov Yosef among others) 
 1780's  also saw the peak of the Frankist movement, the rise of 
	 the Haskalah, and the beginning of Jewish Emancipation in
	 Western Europe.
 1808    R. Nahman's book "Likkutei Moharan" published.

?1870's  Publication of Leo Pinsker's "Auto-Emancipation", official start
	 of political Zionism.  

OK, that's enough for a start! No more excuses for dates that are off
by an era!

(P.S. to reply .4; That's Munkacs, not "moonkatch".  I like your spelling for
the thoughts it brings to mind of a hasid standing under the open sky waiting
to katch a falling moon!)

re:  .-1

>>>(P.S. to reply .4; That's Munkacs, not "moonkatch".  I like your spelling for
>>>the thoughts it brings to mind of a hasid standing under the open sky waiting
>>>to katch a falling moon!)

	I can't resist!

	I wonder what the (non-Jewish) neighbors think when we're out after
	Ma'ariv in thi middle of the street in front of the shul saying
	Kiddush L'voneh?  Maybe we _are_ trying to katch the falling
	moon!  :-)

	/don feinberg

    Re .6
    
    This reminds me of the time Yeshiva Academy rented a van so about
    sixteen of us could go down to New York for a fabrengin. It was getting
    close to sunset so we pulled into the rest area at Wallingford(sp?) Ct.
    We dovined mincha and maariv in the information building. I wonder what
    many of the non-jews thought as the watched us. About half the men in
    the group were wearing their long coats. The "show" went on for 20
    minutes. 
    
    			Fred
    
    PS - A fabrengin is one the Lubavich Rebi's speeches, meetings, etc.
    Actually it's an experience that defies description. 

    A Lubavitcher Rebbe's farbrengin may defy description, but it's
    on cable TV about every 6 weeks. I'll try to remember to post
    information about the next one when I get the schedule.
    
    Though I'm not a Lubavitcher, I find the farbrengin very thought provoking.
    There is a running translation /explanation. 
    
    It usually starts at 9:30pm and lasts till 1am.  I watch the first
    hour and tape the rest.

    ---Av

<    A Lubavitcher Rebbe's farbrengin may defy description, but it's
<   on cable TV about every 6 weeks. 

Are there written transcripts?

Edie