Conference taveng::bagels

    See 129 and 119 for other views.

    It's funny isn't it.  I'm in precisely the same situation (or was)
    but in my case it was MY parents who where objecting to the fact
    that my fiancee was non-jewish.
    
    The way we dealt with this was to come to some sort of comprimise.
     Mark is to undergo a conversion to LIBERAL judaism (which I now
    follow and prefer) and we are all happy.
    
    The only thing I can really suggest in your case is that when you
    next meet the parents, try to always take the opportunity to show
    them that judaism is a very noble religion when it comes to moral
     values and formed the base of christian views.  In other words
    make the point that we're not a bunch of weird people who perform
    strange ceremonies, because believe it or not many people hold this
    view due to the ultra-orthodox and chassidic jews so often shown
    on TV.
    
    The bottom line is this: As long as they lack understanding of judaism,
    they will think of it (and hence you) as a threat.  You must try
    and increase their understanding and you should find that they become
    more tolerant and take you for what you are.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Ruth.

    Re -.1
    
    >						    ...	In other words
    >make the point that we're not a bunch of weird people who perform
    >strange ceremonies, because believe it or not many people hold this
    >view due to the ultra-orthodox and chassidic jews so often shown
    >on TV.
    
    This is one of the most blatant anti-Semitic remarks I've seen
    in this notes file. To make matters worse, it's posted by a
    Jew (I think). It is bad enough that the goyim have this view
    of us, but here is a clear example of a Jew perpetuating the
    image.
    
    Am I so strange for dancing with the rest of the male members of
    the shul in a public square on Simchas Torah. What about Chanuka
    when we had a public menorah lighting ceremony? Is it so strange
    that Jews observe the Sabbath to the point where they don't drive a
    car or even turn a light on or off. This is the way we are and we
    don't have to make excuses for ourselves!
    
    Would you have this person say "I'm a good Jew. I don't do any of
    these silly things. I fit in with the non-Jewish society." 
    

    I'm sure that there was no offense meant, Fred.  The problem is
    the lack of understanding shown in how chassidic Jews are sometimes
    portrayed in the media - made even sadder when you consider that
    other "traditonalistic" religious groups, such as the Amish and
    Mennonites, are portrayed much more sympathetically most of the
    time.  People living in a less heterogeneous society than we have
    here in Massachusetts might think that Kehane's views represent
    the majority view and his actions the majority actions.  Extremes
    make news; regular folks like us usually do not.
    
    Maybe the Amish, etc., end up being portrayed more sympathetically,
    when they are portrayed at all, because they are not immersed in
    a situation with a lot of conflict like Israeli society; those groups
    mostly live in isolation out in the farm country, and might become
    more "news-worthy" if they were transported into an urban setting
    where there would be more oppurtunities for conflict.  I suppose
    that the recent movie (I forget the title - didn't see it myself
    - you must know which movie I mean) helped evoke sympathy for them
    also (I think it was called "Witness"?).

    re: Fred Liss's reply
    
    I think Fred stepped a little bit out of line with his "anti-semitic"
    remark.  If what the originator of this note wrote is "anti-semitic",
    then Fred has led a charmed life as a Jew.
    
    As one who has experienced anti-semitism first-hand, I'd like to
    advise people to use extreme caution in using that term.  You could
    interpret the remark on "strange customs" as anti-Chassidic(actually
    I don't think that it was written with any malice, just non-thinking),
    but please, please, do not use the term anti-semitic.
    
    David

    As regards the previous few notes, while I don't think that there
    is anti-semitism in there. It does make me aware of my own need
    to conform and the painful feeling that I have when I see JAP
    stereotypical behavior. I wish and will strive for,(now that I'm
    acutely aware)inner and outer peace for my people. I love Jewish
    humor and possess a keen one myself. I am dating a Catholic woman
    and a Jewish woman that are both interested in marriage with me!
    I'm at a crossroads and I feel like I need G-d's help and need the
    help of my people too. The pain of seeing the stereotypical behavior
    is the pain of holding the mirror up to the light that shines through
    all of us Jewish and non-Jewish alike! G_d bless people with humor
    and love!

    Hi, my S.O. is also non-Jewish.  My parents met him Mother's Day.
    We had a wonderful time.  Since we met I have also dated 4 Jewish
    guys and was treated crappy.  My shagetz treats me like I'm gold.
    He tells me I'm beautiful.  He understands when I'm having a bad
    day, even does his best to help change the mood.  
    
    My opinion is, once his folks do meet you and they see how much
    you care for and about each other, they'll never give religion a
    thought.
    
    I must admit I still have reservations.  The beautiful traditional
    Jewish wedding will not be if we marry.  But then I think which
    is the better choice--a nice wedding, not so nice marriage; or simple
    wedding, wonderful marriage.  The choice is simple, I think.
    
    I wish you all the happiness in the world.
    
    One of the reasons why I got Bagels is to meet other Jews.  I wanted
    to make friends and to meet a nice Jewish guy.  I did get calls
    from 2. One met me for lunch in company cafeteria.  The other changed
    his mind when I described myself--said I'm too short.  I say he
    is the one who is short, short on class...
    
    So it's back to my shagetz.  This time, I'm not so quick to jump
    at other chances.
    
    But that's me. I hope that over time things will be what they are
    meant to be.
    
    Lots of luck.
    
    Adriane Gilder
    CSCMA::GILDER
    
    dtn 292-2565.
    
    Since I'm in the same boat, let me know if you need to talk.

    If they like you as a person, they will learn to accept you, religion
    or not :-)
    
    Lynne