Conference taveng::bagels

    Yes, I read the article, and I can say that as both an american
    and an Israeli, it brought out all the contradictions that are playing
    within my mind and soul.
    
    I'll tell you one thing Stef Werthheimer's quote as to ending the
    "carte blanche" aid was right on, period.  Aid should only be given
    to the specific institutions, and they should be responsible for
    paying it back.
    
    I was a little distraught at the concluding remark of the American
    Rabbi Hartman (?).  He reiterated the opinion that Israeli society
    should transform itself into something "meaningful", so it can
    rightfully claim it's "centrality".  Why can't American Jews like
    Rabbi Hartman make Aliyah, then they could partake in the
    reconstruction of the society themselves, instead of waiting for
    the messiah to come and do it for them.
    
    David 

    To the best of my knowledge Rabbi Hartmann  long ago made aliyah
    and has resided in Jerusalem for years.  But anyway, it should be
    possible to discuss the validity of an argument without reference
    to the personal history of it's proponent.
    
    Kathy
    

    For those of us who do not get the NY Times, could someone give
    us a brief synopsis of the article being discussed?
    
    Jack

    Last Sunday's NY Times magazine had a feature story on America &
    Israel (also could be looked at as American Jews & Israelis, Americans
    vs. Israelis, possibly more titles could apply).  
    
    It dealt with basically all the issues that exist between the American
    Jewish community and Israel:
    
    	*The aid question, i.e. should it be "carte blanche" or pay
    	 as you go;does it make Israel completely dependent on the
   	 U.S.?;has it contributed to the bloated bureaucracy, etc.
    
    	*Why aren't American Jews attracted to Israel?
    
    	*Contradiction of the necessity of the American Jewish community
  	 both in the U.S. and in Israel.
    
    So in essence they dealt with most of what stands between Americans
    and Israelis.  They also described (in surprising realism)the Israeli's
    penchant for all things American.
    
    I think that you should be able to acquire the magazine, some news
    dealers sell it as a separate section.
    
    Hey everybody over in TAV02 land, Aipho mochrim hashevuon shel ha
    "New York Times" b'aretz?
    
    David

    If anyone wold like a copy of the article please let me know
    by VAXmail at DARTH::SCHORR and I will send you a copy.
    
    Re .3
    
    I believe that the article was more confined to the relationship
    between the US and Israel and how the US is precived by the Israelis.
    I did not feel that there was a strong bias and it provided a large
    amount of background information that I felt was very important.
    

    Re.4
    
    In response to the question asked (in Hebrew) as to where
    the NY Times is sold in Israel:
    
    		It isn't.
    

    What about Steimatsky's or at some of the large hotels in TA (Dan,
    Hilton...)?

    I think Greg might be right about the Dan or the Hilton selling
    the NY Times, I seem to recall seeing it sold in the newstands of
    those hotels.  But that was five years ago, and in Israel that is
    almost an eternity.
    
    David

    I'm pretty sure I've seen the NY Times at Steimatsky's in
    Jerusalem. (Along with International Herald Trib).
    
    (I believe the shop is on Rehov Ben-Yehuda, just south
    of Yaffo)
    
    /don feinberg

    Hey, if it's so important to you guys I'll check it out a bit
    more seriously.  I assume that if it is in fact available you'll
    all be moving here real soon now, right?? :-)
                                

    re:-1
    
    Alan, after reading the article you may come to the conclusion that
    it will take a lot more than the availability of the Sunday Times
    to draw Americans to the idea of Aliyah.
    
    After speaking to a few soulmates, those who have lived there and
    come back, I can say that for the first time I am genuinely depressed.
    People still seem to be drowning in economic misery, the "Jewish
    Khomeinies" seem to be getting the upper hand (can't wait until
    Shamir comes back!), and I now really believe that if a blanket
    visa for the U.S. were offerred to all Israelis, at least 50-75%
    would emigrate, well maybe not that high, but not too far away from
    that figure.
    
    In the past week the old joke about who will turn out the last light
    upon leaving eretz has been lodged in my memory, and I can't get
    it out of my mind.
    
    I hope that this note keeps going on with more discussion about
    America, Israel, etc.  for me it is the most important topic in
    the entire notesfile.
    
    David