Conference taveng::bagels

    Welcome (if you should decide to go, and you SHOULD!) to the "rock
    that I hammered" for six years, and it continues to hammer me back.
    
    1) If you are an American now, stay that way for quite a while.
    There is absolutely no need to go flying into the vortex, and become
    a citizen right away.  CHECK ISRAEL OUT carefully, tour around,
    most important - LEARN IVRIT!(Hebrew).  Life will be a little easier,
    you'll be able to tell who is ripping you off, and who is your friend.
    
    2)If you are an American, then you don't go into the army, and before
    you know what you are getting into.  I can still remember that day
    when I was drafted at Tel-Hashomer, I was in a sort of conscious
    coma, not knowing where I was, etc.
    
    3) According to friends and relatives, the economic situation has
    stabilized somewhat, so it is not as bad as it was last year, but
    the  "interesting" fact of life in Eretz is that things change daily.
    
    4) Currency-wise, you'd be better off to stick to changing your
    money in banks until you LEARN HEBREW, then ask someone how to get
    to Rehov Lilenblum in TA (The Black Market).
    
    5) Most likely you will be going there in Q1, be prepared for hot
    weather, with high humidity(not always); very hot and dry south
    of Beer-Sheva towards Eilat(ah, I miss that loser's paradise). 
    Be sure to drink more water during the day.
    
    6) Try to limit your contact with the bureacracy until there is
    a specific need, and you LEARN HEBREW.  Think of the most obstinate
    govt. employee here, mix well with some Eastern Europen & Levantine
    qualities, and voila!, you have an Israeli clerk.
    
    7) LEARN HEBREW!  I have emphasized this point because once you
    learn the language then you'll acclimate to the country better.
    You'll be able to converse with Russian Jews, French Jews, Algerian
    Jews, Iraqi Jews, etc., then you'll get to know Am Yisrael and it's
    land.
    
    All of the above was intended as purely educational in nature. 
    I might seem sour on Israel, but it's quite the opposite, I miss
    it like crazy.  There is no other place like for a Jew to live in
    and experience, and that's what you should do, experience.  You
    just have to take time to learn how to live in it, that's all.
    Call me if you have any other questions, or net me at NONODE::
    
    David
    
    
     

	Hey David,

	I guess I should learn Hebrew...!  Nu ?

	8-}

	Michael

    I agree totally with what David said. Don't rush anything. Except
    learning Hebrew. Though with English you can manage quite nicely
    in Israel. At least within the Dec environment.
    
    You can become a temporary resident and stay that way for three
    years. Only after that period is up are you eligible for army service.
    
    I'm certain that the personell dept. will be able to help you out
    with your transition. They are a great group of people and really
    try to make things as pleasant as possible.
    
    BTW, what job has been "offered"? What is your time frame?
    
    Happy to wish you aboard.
    
    Cb.

    Congratulations Mike!
    I entirely agree with David except for one small detail. The Army
    will not take you unless 
    a) You know some rudiments of Hebrew
                  or
    b) You elect to sign up for 3 years vs. I beleive the law has now
    changed for oleh chadash...for the under 30 it's 12/16 months.
    
    And as they always said, the best way to meet people is...in the
    army...
    
    If you want some further info on DEC Israel, there's a very good
    write up in the EHQ News, which features a 5 page special on it.
    
    Ya'llah!
               Greg              

    re:.5
    
    Greg, Zahal (at least in my time, or could it have just been Nachal)
    was not rejecting people on the basis of knowledge of Hebrew.  I
    ought to know, I was in with a few "Ivrit Katans".  I personally
    have two friends who in the army, and maybe they knew a dozen words
    at best.  Of course I admit it made it more of a hell for them,
    but then it had it's positive points, "Ani lo mavin, hamepked".
    
    David

	Shalom !!

			You'll be most welcome here. Now, regarding your 
questions:



1 - (Work in DEC ISrael):
				It's great !!!

2 - (Living there as a US citizen):
				Under the Law of Return, you are entitled to
    Israeli citizenship at your arrival. However, and for your convenience, you
    can choose to become a temporary resident, for a period of up to three years
    (and usually more). This status entitles you to all the rights a citizen has
    (except for voting in national elections), along with all the duties (except
    for army service, of which you are exempt during your temporary residence).
    You are entitled, as well, to a long list of tax reductions and different 
    forms of "relocation" aids, which are intended to make it easier for people
    to make a new start here. 

3 - (Requirements for serving in the army):
				Once the period of your temporary residence 
    expires (as I said, it can usually be extended for more than three years), 
    you must decide if you want to stay as a citizen or not. In case you do
    want to become an Israeli (which does not mean you loose your American 
    citizenship), you are called after a while to the Army. First of all,
    if you are over 24 years old, you are drafted for a period of four
    months. After that, you serve every year in the reserves like every 
    Israeli (the actual time you spend in the army depends on your function,
    and can vary from a couple of days to a month+ per year). When in reserve
    duty (and the first mentioned four months are considered to be reserve
    duty), you get full salary compensation. That is, from your employer's
    point of view, it is as if you've been every day at work.


4 - (Living in general):
				There's no place on earth like Israel. 
				There's no place on earth like Home. 

5 - (Know anyone from US that is there?):
				
				You'll find many people here who came from the
    US, both in DEC and outside it. 

		As with everything else, you would be wise to collect advice
from people knowledgeable with the issues involved. Everyone here will be
glad to help you.


				Shalom.

					Avi

		
				

    re: .6
    
    I'd like to amend one point of Avi's re: serving in the army after
    age 24, Avi states that you only have to serve four months on active
    duty if you are over 24.  By my experience this is wrong, I was
    drafted into Zahal when I was 26, and I served 18 months on active
    duty.  I understand now it has been cut down to 1 year.
    
    I think he was confused because he probably thought of "Shlav Bet",
    which is the level for those over the age of 28, yes, here you only
    do four months or so then go into miluim (reserves) on a yearly
    basis.
    
    One more thing, yes there are many North Americans(let's not forget
    our brethren in Canada!) living in Israel, who made successful aliyah,
    etc.  But these people aren't your family, and what is a major factor
    in most North Americans returning to the country of origin is the
    separation of families.
    
    I am working with a newly organized group of "aliyah returnees"(we're
    looking for a better term) here in the Boston area. Being separated
    from one's family is one factor into which I will try to look into
    for possible solutions, other than your entire family making aliyah,
    and I admit that would be the ultimate solution, but lets be realistic.
    
    I think there are important things that the Schlichim leave out
    of their general advice, either through lack of knowledge or intention.
    I find that this causes fatal harm in the prospective oleh's chances
    for a successful aliyah.  It's my opinion that North American Jews
    should take over the entire enterprise of aliyah, what there is
    of it(and not much!), at least the people who would be coming over
    wouldn't be misled by wrong advice, etc.
    
    David

	Hi ,

I'm not going to tell you how wonderful is Israel, since I was born here ,
and I know that aside it's being the best country for a Jew to live in -
there are some hardships - which you should be ready to take . (and you
can learn them only on own skin by living here - if you choose to .)

Three things I can assure you :

  1) you'll find most of the people willing to help at anything.
  2) you'll find yourself in a very warm family in DEC-Israel .
  3) it's going to be , in any case an exiting experience to you , that , 
      as a Jew , I'm not sure you can afford yourself to miss .


So , what are you waiting for ???? ...

					Hoping to see you here ,
					        Alon .
	

     

	

	I am really touched by all this response.

		First let me say that the opportunity of
	working in DEC Israel sounds very exciting and touches
	me in the lowest levels of my mind and heart.  Of course,
	being a Jew makes the transition more desirable (Sort of
	like when I go to New York to visit my parents !8-} ).

		Second let me say, that I will not be going to
	Israel (To work) until I can :

		1]	See it first on vacation or interview;
		2]	Learn FLUENT Hebrew;
		3]	Am not hurting anyone by my leaving.

	THese are important issues as far as I am concerned,
	and I must consider many alternatives at first.

	So for now, I am taking another job here in the states
	and will stay in touch with ALL of you about this transfer
	in the future.  This, I believe, is the logical choice
	and the safest for me to do.

		Yours,
			Mordecai.

		

    In the near future I will be entering a note here on aliyah, living
    in Israel, why American Jews "vacillate" (or do they really?), etc.
    I'd like to see a healthy number of responses from "shnay hatzaday
    hayam", from both sides of the ocean.  It's time about we got down
    to this subject anyway.
    
    I think Michael made a wise choice, and I'm sure in time he will
    be joining all of you (as I would like to) "over there".
    
    David

	

	I jsut got a card from a friend who is in Israel
	now.  Sent a postcard with Tiberias on the front and
	the Sea of Galilee on the front.

	Says,

	Dear Mike-

	It's NOT a desert !
	There's plenty of water here, think
	I'll only send postcards of lakes and rivers,
	Israel needs the publicity.  Would love to stay
	here for about 6-12 months, but I think India
	and S.E. asia are calling.   The social scene
	here is unreal (great) and the Israeli women are
	gorgeous.

	Will write again soon,

			Mike.


	Hmmmmm...

    Settle down Mike!  But just think if you LEARN HEBREW, you could
    start up a conversation with one of those "gorgeous" women.
    
    David
    

	Naw, I'm more interested in politics.


	8-}

    Last Wednesday evening I went to the Worcester JCC to see the Hora
    Harakafot dancers. They are a fantastic dance troupe. But that's
    not my point. During the intermission they showed slides of Kiryat
    Ata, their city, (town? village? kibbutz?).
    
    All you guys at TAV02 had me convinced that Israel was truly a land of
    milk and honey. I almost died of thirst watching the slides! Kiryat Ata
    is supposed to be the "Sister City" of Worcester. Worcester is the
    second largest city in New England (Boston is the largest). The slides
    showed Kiryat Ata as being hot with low bushes and some grass. The
    streets were empty, the sun beat down, and there were rocks everywhere.
    My guess is that this land was probably reclaimed from the desert. As
    for the size of the community I don't think there were accommodations
    for more than about fifty families. This is definitely not a picture
    you would put on a postcard.
    
    				Fred
    					pass_the_lemonade   8-p
     
    

    Ah, come on, Fred, the desert is very beautiful - and no POLLEN
    in sight, for allergy sufferers like me!  The only place anywhere
    in Israe I had any trouble was in Haifa, where the industrial zone
    is just upwind of the city.  Anyhow, the desert isn't everywhere
    - I have some beautiful pictures of the waterfalls on the Banyas,
    and swimming in the Galilee.
    
    I don't know if we will ever live there, though; both of my
    sisters-in-law are back in this country again.  But who knows?

The land of milk and honey, maybe, but water is a real problem this year.
We haven't had enough rain this winter (and the year before as well), and
we hope for a better winter next year.

Anyhow, you can always get a Diet Coke :-)

Nitsan.