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Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

80.0. "Sephardi-Ashkenazi status" by PFLOYD::CHERSON () Tue Mar 11 1986 08:26

    Now for a serious note,(although I believe that discussions about
    where to get a good bagel, etc. also belong in this notesfile -
    sorry Greg),  some time has passed since the sephardi-ashkenazi
    crisis in Israeli society has captured any news headlines.  Gleaning
    through recent editions of Maariv here even did not turn up any
    information on the subject.
    
    Could it be that life is on the mend vis-a-vis this issue back in
    the moledet?  For me this issue even takes precedence over the
    Arab-Israeli conflict, for without the unity of the Jewish people
    you might as well forget about a state.
    
    David
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80.1Maybe there is no problemGRDIAN::GOODSTEINTue Mar 11 1986 14:119
    	Perhaps its because there is no serphardi-ashkenazi problem
    to begin with.  In all the years I have been involved in the Jewish
    community I've never been aware of this problem.  To begin with
    I am Askenazi and I never have any opinions when I meet someone
    who is Sephardi.  If you're Jewish, you're Jewish.  The fact that
    you may be from another part of the world just adds more flavor and
    variety to us all.  Unless I've missed something (which is possible)
    it is probably better to say there is no problem to begin with and
    then there will be no problems.
80.2I beg to differPFLOYD::CHERSONTue Mar 11 1986 15:1812
    re: .1
    
    I think you are either not aware of Israeli societal problems, through
    not having lived there, etc., or you are just trying to avoid the
    issue by denying that one exists.  This problem has been boiling
    under the surface for many years, and finally manifested itself
    during the first Begin regime.
    
    The irony lay in why so many mizrachim saw Begin as a redeemer,
    for he was as Ashkenazi as you can get, and besides he was just
    interested in their votes, and his interest in their welfare was
    questionable.  
80.3a spicy latkaNY1MM::BCOHENWed Mar 12 1986 11:0417
    Hi guys,
    
    Re: .1
    
    I do Believe Mr. Cherson is right, there has been a problem in Israeli
    society but here in the U.S. it really isn't manifest.
    One reason is that in Israel some groups have felt that they were
    pioneers where other groups were immigrants.
    In the U.S. we were all immigrants so ....
    
    My opinion though is that as the culture melds, sephardi and ashkenazi
    (in Israel) will become Israeli with less distinctions over time.
    
    Shalom,
    
    Bruce Cohen
    
80.4There IS a problemTAV02::NITSANSun Mar 16 1986 02:017
    Some words from "the inside":
    The problem DOES exist, even if we don't like (sometimes) to admit
    it. It is a mixture of a few things, including historic legacy,
    way of life, [some] polytics etc.
    
    This subject has arised recently after the "Herut" conference, as
    it had in previous times when polytics was involved.
80.5Another opinionGRDIAN::HOFFMANFri May 09 1986 20:5736
While this may be a bit late in the season (almost two months
of inactivity in this note), I'd still like to put in my $0.02
worth...

Ron, in .2, says there is no problem. He's absolutely right. I am
fairly Ashkenazi, while my wife is Sfaradic (speaks French and
Ladino, believes chicken soup is for the birds - the works). We've
been married for more years than either of us wishes to admit. As
far as the "mixed marriage" is concerned, we have never had a
problem.

Among our friends there are at least two --probably more-- couples
in the same situation. I am talking real close friendships here: if
there was any problem, I'd know about it (God knows I've heard about
all other problems :-)), but there are definitely no broblems on this
particular score.

All these people --us included-- are Sabra's (Israeli born and
raised). They do not view themselves as Sferadis, Ashkenazis or
whatever. They are just Sabras; ergo: no problem.

Ron, in .2, says there is no problem. He's absolutely wrong. There
is a very disturbing, inherent, deeply entrenched sect problem in
Israeli society. This is an Economical/Political/Societal problem.
It stems from inequalities that occur in almost (hell, in  a l l )
democratic societies. A lot of it has to do with the less than
beautiful side of human nature.

To summarize: on the interpersonal level, between people who know
each other, I do not think there is a sect problem in Israel. On
the political/social level, I believe there is a very real, complex,
inexorable problem that will take another generation to solve.

I didn't mean to be so long winded... sorry.

-- Ron
80.6<That's not the problem, guys...>MDR01::RUBENMon Jan 05 1987 08:094
    Hear about those two men (one askenaz the other sephardit) who were
    discussing about Israel social problems when two sabrim approach
    and one tells the other "I wonder why these people discuss questions
    about Israel when both of 'em are NOT Israelis"?