Conference tallis::celt

    Martin,
    
    Good to see some sign of life in the old conference!  Anyway, my Irish
    history is a bit rusty: why would the Orange Order want to commerate
    the 1798 rebellion at all?  Is it that they want to ensure that whatever
    celebrations republicans in the North or the Irish Government have are
    sensitive to their aspirations?
    
    regards, Ken Hanly

If I may cut in here ...

I'm sure I've written about this too many times already but here goes anyway ..

1798 was essentially a Protestant affair, at that point Catholics were only
just turning to Republicanism. If any modern organization within Ireland were
to be chosen as the natural focus for commemorative events - it would be the
Orange Order.


I don't know if the Orange Order was involved then, as there were
other driving factors at the time (e.g. Jacobins). 

M  

    Re .2: I might be wrong, but I have a vague memory that the Orange
    Order was founded somewhere in the 19th century. Could anybody confirm
    that, please?
    
    	And many Catholics (most probably more than Protestants) were
    implicared in the 98's rising itself, even if more Protestants than
    Catholics were among the prime originators of the movement. In fact a
    good deal of the rising's shortcomings were due to the lack of trust
    between Catholics and Protestants that developed in the year before the
    rising. Some trust and common goals had appeared in the previous
    decade.
    
    	I should probably refresh my memory a lot on this subject...
    			Denis.

    Orange Order was founded in 1795 in Dublin. Many of its original
    memebers were in the Yoemanry which helped to put down the 1798
    rebellion.
    
    Many of the Presbeterians in the North East which were involved in the
    rebellion later joined the Orange Order. In fact within 2 generations
    they were the leaders of the Orange Order. So it can be seen that the
    antecedants of the Orange Order fought on both sides.
    
    The place where mainly Catholics were involved in the rebellion was in
    the South East. Elsewhere it was mainly Presbiterians. Even in the
    south East people like Beaucamp Bagenal-Harvey etc were not Catholic.
    In fact Lord Edward Fitzgerald was a brother of the Irish Lord
    Luitenant of the time. So the conspiracy was in the high levels of the
    aristocracy of the time.
    
    MBr

    Re .4: I agree with you except on one point:
>In fact Lord Edward Fitzgerald was a brother of the Irish Lord
>Luitenant of the time. So the conspiracy was in the high levels of the
>aristocracy of the time.

     	Even if he was a son of the duke of Leinster, he was an isolated
case. The aristocracy was massively against the rising.

	That said, I agree that many of the leaders or of the originators
were protestants, including Wolfe Tone, but the people who rose in arms in
the country (mainly in Wexford as you said, but not only there) were mostly
Catholics, if memory serves.

	And thanks for the correction on the foundation date of the Orange
Order, I'll have to reread a few facts...
			Denis.

    Denis,
    
    You are correct on the aristocracy. I did not intend to give that
    impression. Sloppy writing on my part. 
    
    The point I was trying to make was that there were people in high
    places thinking in terms of greater freedom for Ireland. It is hare to
    quantify how many of the old "volunteers" had leanings in that
    direction even if they did not support armed rebellion.
    
    MBr