Conference tallis::celt

    Good idea Joe,
    
    by the way, I think you mean Janet Evans, (the whingeing loser). Linda
    Evans is the airhead blonde from `Dynasty' whose only line was always 
    `Oh Blake!'....
    
    Ray....

    Ray, your words betray your obvious obsession with 'Dynasty'.....i'm so
    ashamed!
    
    Shaun.

    I'm not obsessed. A friend told me, honest....
    
    Ray....

    Well Michelle has qualified for yet another final. Taking the foot off
    the pedal in the last 10 meters brought her in in 6th place. She will
    be in lane 7 in the final.
    
    She may not take part in the final.
    
    MBr

   >> in 6th place
    
    doncha mean 3rd ?

    She's done it again, coming from 4th place at the last turn to pinch
    the gold. What a gal!...
    
    Ray....

    I think the "target" of this thread should be the doubting Thomases of
    all nations, not just the Americans. Apparently, the Australians,
    Canadians and Germans have also cast doubts about her.
    
    Last night (oops...this morning!), I watched the race on Italian TV.
    The commentator was assisted by Giorgio Lamberti, ex-world record
    holder at 100m freestyle. Lamberti is usually very measured in his
    words, but on this occasion he was moved to say words to the effect
    that "...so far, she's the woman of the Games, but I wouldn't like it
    all to blow up in her face". He also mentioned that there were several
    athletes/coaches in the Italian camp who were a little suspicious, and
    added: "I've seen too much swimming not to have my doubts".
    
    The Michelle Smith case is becoming like the Florence Griffith case in
    1988. Griffith's rise was also meteoric, and the change in her physique
    was astounding to say the least. She added to the negative speculation
    by retiring from competitive athletics after setting world records at
    the Seoul Olympics (?).
    
    IMO, they should throw the book at athletes who test positive,
    especially if they've won medals. But until then people in responsible
    positions should learn to keep their mouths shut. I admit to having had
    my doubts about the Chinese in recent years, but it was a rather
    different story:
    
    a)Their success was limited almost exclusively to women's competition
    
    b)Their involvement in international meetings throughout the year was
    very limited (less testing = greater possibility of "getting away with
    it"!)
    
    c)Their physical stature, when compared with other athletes on the
    rostrum, was almost embarassing!
    
    Dom

    Dom,   it should be noted that Michelle hasn't broke, (or got very
    close to), any world records while winning her medals. Flo-Jo broke
    records by astronomical amounts (in athletic terms) at the Seoul
    games....
    
    Ray....

    >Dom,   it should be noted that Michelle hasn't broke, (or got very
    >close to), any world records while winning her medals. Flo-Jo broke
    >records by astronomical amounts (in athletic terms) at the Seoul
    >games....
    
    Good point...I'd overlooked that. I only compared her with Florence
    Griffith because people seem(ed) unable to talk about either of them
    without mentioning the word "doping". Likewise, Florence Griffith
    complained of the incredible number of tests she had to undergo.
    
    Btw, sorry to take the attention away from Michelle, but the Canadian
    girl who got the silver was a bit of a looker, wasn't she? (Oops,
    that's the sexist in me coming out...)
    
    Dom

A radio DJ in Boston this morning mentioned that
Michelle's former coach "Sister Anna Bollick"
is not surprised with the latest results !!  :-)

I just hope and pray that when she arrives back 
in Dublin, her friends don't ask  ....

"How's the Craic" ??


keVin
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    I don't believe it!  A third Gold.  Brillant performance.
    
    Regarding whinging by the US and others, some people are getting better
    and others are getting worse.  The US network, NBC, went out of its way
    last night to say how much Michelle has been tested and how she whould
    be givent he benefit of the doubt.  Ths interview with herself after
    the race never mentioned drugs, as before, but focused on strategy. 
    NBC even showed the medal ceremony with the Irish anthem, which is most
    unusual as they normally only show medal ceremonies with Americans
    involved.  By the way, it certainly wasn't the Artane Boys Band doing
    the music.  They obviously hadn't practiced the Irish anthem, even
    though this is their third time playing it.  Let us hope they get it
    right on Friday!
    
    Other people are still skeptic.  The Boston Globe had another article
    about how incredible it is, almost impossible that she could be clean. 
    The US Swimming Coach, Richard Quick, is living up to his name by
    jumping to the conclusion that she is on performance-enhancing drugs.
    He says that authorities should look long and hard at her performances.  
    The article talked again about how could she do it when Ireland doesn't
    have a 50 meter pool, failing, yet again, to realize that she trains in
    the Netherlands.  Others say that only time will tell.
    
    Meanwhile, best of luck on Friday.

>I just hope and pray that when she arrives back 
>in Dublin, her friends don't ask  ....

>"How's the Craic" ??


	keVin,
    
    Remarks like that could lead to CRACKED heads next time you are in
    Hanlons. We might even invite "Michelle Carouth" round from next door as
    the likely guest. -)
    
    Incidentally I like the answer she gave when asked about a rumour of 
    shoulder injury namely " The only injury i have is when I shave". 
    Obviously a lady with a terrific sense of humour.
    
    I'm glad I don't live near the "Poteen Still" any more.
    
    MBr
     
    
    

    Re: 1598's latest on Michelle.
    
    Well, I agree that you make a few fair points there. However, I take
    issue with the continuing rumpus about her late entry. 
    
    Please don't take the following personally. It's not meant to be 
    anything other than a late Friday rant with flames. 
    
    Why the hell is it that despite official acceptance that her entry had been
    submitted according to the timetable that the Irish were given, and
    despite official admission that the fault lay with the IOC organisers
    who gave out the wrong information, there are still a lot of complaints
    flying in the face of reason and reported fact? 
    
    For Michelle's sake, I hope that she is telling the truth. She appears
    to be. Her story is backed up (so far) by a string of tests that have
    all proved to be negative. So far so good.
    
    Could it be that in the media hype about the first ever totally
    privatized games, the rows about lack of transport and poorly timetabled
    transport for athletes, the "oversight" about there being no train
    or subway station wihtin a mile of the site, the debacle of IBM's
    software "solutions" and all the rest of the nonsense that deep down
    the US media's attitude is that American athletes have a God-given
    right to win on their turf. And how dare anyone else do it??? Goodamm..
    their drugs must be better than our drugs.
    
    So far, it seems to me and many others on this side of the Atlantic,
    that the US excell at two things.. hype and losing badly.
    
    Sincerely and lacking in sleep,
    
    John

    I've had my say (apparently in the wrong note) about Michelle,
    but what I don't understand is WHERE is all this reported whining
    from the Evans camp originating?  I've been watching live interviews
    with Evans and I haven't heard her allude to drug usage by Smith
    at all.  Evans's coach was outspoken about Smith being allowed to
    compete in one race because Smith was 10 days late in getting the
    appropriate paperwork filed, but he wasn't the only coach complaining.
    The IOC debated the issue until 2AM before deciding to give Smith
    the go.
    
    I HAVE been dismayed by members of the media who were so crass as
    to put a microphone in Smith's face as soon as she climbed out of
    the pool and ask her about PE drugs rather than congratulating her
    on the race <--- but these bad manners are not exclusively American!!
    
    I suppose one cannot control the heart, but when Michelle married
    someone who's been banned from the sport for 4 years she had to
    know the speculation that would follow.  If her husband was so
    expert in proper training procedures, why did he feel the need to
    use PE type drugs to enhance his own performance?
    
    I have my suspicions about at least one American diver as far as
    PE drugs are concerned; Lord, if I passed her on the street I'd be
    hard pressed to tell whether she was male or female without the
    bathing suit on ;-)
    

    In a nutshell, Michelle has been declared guilty until proven
    innocent, again and again.. and that her guilt is by association
    with her husband.
    
    The whole affair sucks. NBC and rest of the TV stations should
    hang their corporate heads in shame.
    
    John

    .13 Bennett
    
    You have hit on the biggest group of whiners at the games, i.e.
    the media!!  I'd say the next largest group of boo-hooers are
    various female gymnasts.  Now that the talent of the women from
    eastern bloc countries does not reside solely with the Russian
    team, this sport has become a whole 'nuther ball game ;-)  I DO
    wish Shannon Miller and Dominique Dawes could have maintained a
    stiffer upper lip last night though ;-)
    
    At least 2 non-American journalists were willing to give the US
    a break on some of the "glitches" (I believe one from the UK and
    the other France or Belgium).  Again, for local Atlanta TV these
    two gents indicated that they had both covered 3 prior summer
    games and said there has always been problems, but the problems
    were kept relatively quiet.  They both agreed that the world
    press seemed to be enjoying the opportunity to "stick it to
    ACOG".
    
    One thing WE all have in common, i.e. aren't ya'll glad that 
    Digital isn't doing all the timing and scoring for the games? ;-)
    

    John,
    
    Speculation will probably always surround Smith, sorry but true.
    
    But PLEASE get your facts straight.  NBC and the US media are NOT
    the only journalists behaving badly on this issue.  The US was
    NOT the only country objecting to Smith's participation in ONE
    race!!  If the paperwork had been in order, i's dotted and t's
    crossed no one would have a leg to stand on in even attempting
    a protest and the IOC wouldn't have had to debate the issue into
    the wee hours of the morning!!  If there hadn't been merit to the
    complaint, I'm sure the IOC would have summarily dismissed the
    objections.
    
    

    >So far, it seems to me and many others on this side of the Atlantic,
    >that the US excell at two things.. hype and losing badly.
    
    I would agree on the "hype". The Olympics look more like 
    a carnival than a summer games. I had to laugh when the
    cameras, that were following the olympic torch being carried
    into the stadium, panned over and caught 2 of the many "fairy"
    dancers woofing down meatball subs at one of the food kiosks.
    
    Then there's the story of some kayaking team that commandeered
    a bus in order to get to their event (because their bus never
    showed up).
    
    Then the half hour segment (Olympic moments?) on the ex-Soviet
    gymnast A. Sherbo's wife who was in a car accident in Pennsylvania
    and went into a coma. Hello? McFly?
    
    Re the "losing badly". Unfortunately, some of the US coaches have
    not taught their students that losing (with grace) is part of sports.
    I blame the coaches and the families, not the 14 year old children that
    are competing. Luckily, I don't think these few athletes are indicative
    of the entire US delegation however. Clinton asked to meet and
    congratulated Smith on her victory though - which was nice.
    
    Re Janet Evans, I caught her interview after the 800 meters race -
    instead of congratulating the younger US athlete Brooke Bennett on
    her victory, she just talked about herself and how everyone loved
    her? Go figure...
    
    :v)

    Re: .17
    
    Perhaps I was a bit over-selective there. Yes, of course the US
    journalists were not the only ones. A lot of noise came from
    journalists whose swimmers were highly-ranked contenders. So,
    I accept your criticism with the caveat that rather than getting
    the facts straight, the set of facts I presented could have been
    fuller.
    
    In any event, it's nice to get your point of view from the western
    side of the big pond.
    
    Thanks,
    
    John 

.15:
>    The whole affair sucks. NBC and rest of the TV stations should
>    hang their corporate heads in shame.

Agreed.  Bob Costas (NBC's anchor for the games) pretty much slammed
his colleagues for it last night, btw.

    Re the PE drug suspicions:
    	Quote from this morning's (issue #495) release of "The Irish
    Emigrant" (Liam Ferrie's abstract of the Irish news of the week):
    
    	"During his career as a discus thrower, Erik de Bruin [Michelle's
    husband] was accused but cleared of taking performance enhancing
    drugs."
    
    	Some previous replies is this topic seem to imply that Erik was
    guilty of PE drug use. I don't have any info on the subject, so could
    someone please let me know if he has indeed been cleared or not of such
    accusations?
    	Thanks for any info,
    		Denis.

According to reports in the Irish press, the ban was over-ruled
by the Dutch courts, and he was re-instated by the Dutch governing 
body for his sport, but the ban was upheld by the International
governing body. He appealed the ban on the basis that the testing
procedure was flawed. Again, accordng to the press reports here,
his case has some similarities to the ongoing Diane Modahl case. 

    I tried to port in an article from Saturday's Boston Globe by Dan
    Shaughnessy where he said that the media basically cheated Michelle
    Smith out of her moment of glory by focusing on the rumours. 
    Unfortunately, I could't bring it in here, but it basically said that
    she deserves the benefit of the doubt and the media should focus on the
    positive, not the innuendos.  He did quote Mr. Richard Quick, the US
    swimming coach, again.  This man is on a mission; again, he makes
    reference to her husband and contiues to make allegations, despite the
    fact that the tests are clear.  He (quick) is obviously one, if not the 
    main, source of the performance enhancing drugs rumour.  Bob Costos,
    the Jim Sherwin or emcee of NBC was emphatic in saying that Michelle
    has passed more tests than most and people should stop "slandering"
    her.  He is right.  
    
    Great to see her win another medal.  The delay with the goggles may
    have upset her preparation.  It shows how far Irish sport, swimming,
    and female athletes have come in Ireland when we can even be slightly
    disapointed about an Irish swimmer "only" winning bronze.
    
    Best of luck, Ken Hanly  

The Americans are not the only ones guilty of hype and losing badly.
Many, many nations can claim those qualities too.  I do think the 
media owes Michelle an apology, although it's a bit late now.  And not
just the American Media, but the International media.  I was thrilled
that NBC finally showed her last gold medal ceremony.  

I don't understand the criticism of the American Gymnasts.  They
were doing so well, and they blew it and they were heartbroken.  So there
were tears.  What's wrong with that?  The Russians were sobbing when 
they didn't win the team gold.  I thought Shannon Miller was the one
exception.  I think she took losing well, and winning well.  I was
impressed the other night when she won the balance beam.   There was no
big scene running around waving at the crowd.  All she said was, it's nice
to end on a high note.
 
I don't think it's just the media turning the Olympics into a circus.  
Look at the athletes.  I was disgusted with the antics going on at
the track the other night.  I found my self yelling at my tv, Just run
the damn race!  The  long jumpers were the worst, and it wasn't just the
Americans.  That woman from France that won the 400 or the 800 ( I forget) 
should win a medal for her outfit.  My sister and I nearly fell off the 
couch laughing when we saw the back of her.   

Julie

I meant to reply about the Chinese swimmers, but that comment about the
Americans being bad losers got me going in a different direction.
I was very bothered about the Chinese team drug use while I watched that
tv show a few weeks ago.  If an individual chooses to take steroids knowing 
the harmful side effects, I have no sympathy for them.  But so many of the 
Chinese women have tested positive that it obviously was not an inidividual
thing, but program wide.  Who has come in defense of these women.  Did 
they know what they were taking.  The Chinese called it special herbal
tea.  If the women had prolonged use of steroids they are looking at some
serious health problems.  That's not worth all the gold medals in the world.

I have heard of a couple of cases where an athlete tested positive, and the
coach came forward and admitted to giving the substance to his unknowing athlete.
One case was actually husband(coach)/wife(athlete).  They got divorced.

Julie

    What was the French outfit? I missed that.
    
    I did however see the Italian biker.
    
    Was is Sonia O'Sullivan that had to strip in the hallway of
    some stadium because she had the wrong running shoes on?
    Apparently, they could only wear one brand of running shoes
    while in the Olympic Village, and then another while in
    the stadium? I suppose you have to cart around a big
    duffle bug worth of clothing...

>I don't understand the criticism of the American Gymnasts.  They
>were doing so well, and they blew it and they were heartbroken.  So there
>were tears.  What's wrong with that?  

Nothing is wrong with it, it's just that the culture of [parts of] the USA
is much more geared towards the open expression of emotion than that of
the UK and Ireland - so if the criticism is coming from the east side of the
pond that may be why.

I understand that some USAans see British people as being rather reserved,
it's the other side of the same coin.

BTW, what was the French lady's outfit like?

regards,
//alan

    The outfit that you missed was a pair of shorts that looked similar to
    a thong bikini in the back so that you could see most of her butt. I
    realize that the shorts might ride up a bit after running the hurdles
    but certainly no where near that high. I saw her run again but this
    time she covered her assets(!) up much better.

Ah...thanks for the explanation.

My wife did comment on some other lassie who was wearing an outfit like that.
Then she thought for a moment, before adding that if she had a body like that
and knew how much she could annoy other women with it, _she_ would enjoy
wearing womething similar :-)

regards,
//alan

    >The outfit that you missed was a pair of shorts that looked similar to
    >a thong bikini in the back so that you could see most of her butt. I
    >realize that the shorts might ride up a bit after running the hurdles
    >but certainly no where near that high. I saw her run again but this
    >time she covered her assets(!) up much better.
    
    I saw her run (her name's Marie-? Perec if memory serves)
    
    ...but didn't notice anything special about the outfit ;-)
    
    Is this old age creeping in, or am I just spoilt? Either that or I saw
    the race where she "covered up her assets much better" (typical of my
    luck).
    
    Dom

    Michelle Smith was in Boston yesterday at a civic reception with the
    Mayor and Governor.  She proudly displayed her medals and says she has
    no hard feelings about the accusatons and would prefer not to talk
    about it.  Janet Evans, the US swimmer, apparently apologised to her
    and congratulated her on her success.  Janet never actually accused
    Michelle of taking substances, she just admitted that there were
    rumours circulating about Ms. Smith.  The only real person still
    making slanderous remarks seems to be a US Coach, Richard Quick.
    
    I would wager that the reception when she returns to Dublin will be
    tremendous.  Also, as the Irish TImes says, look for a lot of wee
    Michelles in about a year's time in the Birth Notices.
    
    

>>I don't understand the criticism of the American Gymnasts.  They
>>were doing so well, and they blew it and they were heartbroken.  So there
>>were tears.  What's wrong with that?  

>Nothing is wrong with it, it's just that the culture of [parts of] the USA
>is much more geared towards the open expression of emotion than that of
>the UK and Ireland - so if the criticism is coming from the east side of the
>pond that may be why.
    
>I understand that some USAans see British people as being rather reserved,
>it's the other side of the same coin.
    
    The criticism also comes from north of the US-Canada border as well. 
    Thank gawd we (Canadians) have the CBC (Canadian Broadcorping
    Castration) feeding the Olympic Circus to us.   As a lot of Canadians
    have cable, we are able to channel-hop and see the American stations
    as well as our own.  The differences are like night and day!  I stick
    with the Canadian coverage; it's more balanced, less emotional and less
    biased towards ANY group, nation, or athlete.
    
    G'day, eh.
    
    Pat

Live From NBC! Drum Roll Please.
By Dave Barry
Knight-Ridder Newspapers
    
ATLANTA (KRT) -- And now for my impression of the Olympics on TV:
       
TRUMPETS: BOM! BOM! BOM-BOM BOM BOM BOM!
    
BOB COSTAS: Good evening, and as you can tell by the sound of the Olympic
Theme Song that we play almost as much as we show Kerri Strug's historic
vault, it's time for our broadcast of The Recently Videotaped Olympic Games
Featuring Americans. We're going to start by taking you right to the
track-and-field stadium, where the men's 100-meter dash is about to get under
way, despite the fact that it actually happened four hours ago.
   
TRACK COMMENTATOR: Bob, this promises to be an exciting race, featuring
Americans.

COSTAS: And what are the obstacles that these Americans have overcome to
create a Human Interest Factor for our broadcast?

TRACK COMMENTATOR: Bob, from left to right, they have overcome psoriasis,
vertigo and a bad allergy to vinaigrette dressing.

COSTAS: We'll come back to the men's 100-meter final, but right now we're
going to replay the video of Kerri Strug, an American, overcoming her ankle to
make her courageous vault.

(Kerri Strug vaults.)

COSTAS: What a human moment! Time for a commercial.

ANNOUNCER: We're IBM. We're a giant corporation with vast computer expertise.
That's why we're in charge of keeping track of all the statistics for these,
the Olympic Games of 1953. Thank you.

BOM! BOM! BOMBOM BOM BOM BOM!

COSTAS: Now we're going to take you to women's beach volleyball, where the sun
is shining brightly despite the fact that it is now 10:37 p.m. on the East
Coast.

BEACH VOLLEYBALL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Bob. This is Holly McPeak, an American,
and as you can see in this digitized, computer-enhanced, ultra-slow-motion
Beach Cam closeup shot, she has overcome cellulite.

COSTAS: I'll say. When is she going to serve?

BEACH VOLLEYBALL COMMENTATOR: She'll be serving in about 4 seconds, Bob.

COSTAS: I'm sorry, but we don't have that kind of time, because we need to
show this Heartwarming Moment.

(Kerri Strug vaults.)

COSTAS: Now let's go out to the cycling competition, where I believe we have a
race involving an American.

CYCLING COMMENTATOR: That is correct, Bob. We have an American shown here
pedaling furiously in 637th place, with a solid chance to move up to 636th.

COSTAS: What obstacle has this American overcome?

CYCLING COMMENTATOR: Bob, he is overcoming one hellacious case of hemorrhoids.

COSTAS: We'll have more on that exciting cycling race, but right now we're
going to return to the Olympic track stadium for an update on the men's
100-meter dash.

TRACK COMMENTATOR: Bob, the race started about two seconds ago and should be
over in about eight more seconds. None of the Americans has fallen down.

COSTAS: We're going to break away from the men's 100-meter dash at this point,
but we will be covering it throughout the course of the evening. Right now,
however, we want you to see this moment, captured by our NBC cameras.

(Kerri Strug vaults.)

COSTAS: Now let's head out to the pool to check on the progress of the
American swimmers, all of whom have overcome asthma.

SWIMMING COMMENTATOR: Bob, here we see an American swimmer winning a race.
This happened earlier.

COSTAS: How much earlier?

SWIMMING COMMENTATOR: Twenty-four years, Bob. This is Mark Spitz.

COSTAS: Time for this commercial.

ANNOUNCER: We're the Nike Corporation. We pay famous athletes millions of
dollars to wear our shoes. Because of this, you, the public, pay absurdly high
prices for these shoes. Is that stupid, or what? Thank you.

BOM! BOM! BOMBOM BOM BOM BOM!

(Kerri Strug vaults.)

COSTAS: OK, right now there are exciting gold-medal competitions going on in
archery, shooting, rowing, kayaking, table tennis, softball, volleyball, team
handball and judo, so right now we're going to take you to beach volleyball.

BEACH VOLLEYBALL COMMENTATOR: Bob, as you can see, American Holly McPeak is
bending over.

COSTAS: I'll say.

BOM! BOM! BOMBOM BOM BOM BOM!

(Kerri Strug vaults.)

    As usual, Dave Barry is pretty close to the truth.  Very amusing!
    

    >>>Contrary to the opinion of another noter, age "typically" does not help
    one's performances.  This has been demonstrated time and again in aquatic
    and track/field events.
    
    This quote is taken from the Francie Barrett string, but it refers to
    Michelle Smith and the question of how she has achieved such
    spectacular improvement. I think you missed my point, which is that the
    peak age for swimmers is for some reason generally much lower than for
    other sports. There are not many great 17 year old weight lifters or
    sprinters, for example. I don't understand why this should be for
    swimming, perhaps you could explain why it is. The logic would be that
    in most countries "late developers" would drop out before reaching
    their peak, as the young swimmers beat them. Michelle may have bucked
    this trend as she has little competition in Ireland, so she was able to
    persevere as a late developer. 
    
    Quite apart from Michelle Smith, it does seem there is a drug problem.
    I was very suspicious of the Russian who won the 800 meters (I think
    that was it). After the race she was full of beans and did a sprint up
    and down the track while her opponents lay flaked out and exhausted on
    the track. The two athletes who came second and third exchanged knowing
    glances. While some allowance can be made for the exuberance of
    victory, the complete lack of fatigue compared to her opponents was
    very fishy.
    
    Kevin