| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1585.1 | | IRNBRU::HOWARD | Lovely Day for a Guinness | Mon Jun 17 1996 04:39 | 5 |
| Absolutely mad. No other words to describe this `event'. Sinn Fein are
so far out in the wilderness now, I doubt even a ceasefire would get
them into the talks....
Ray....
|
| 1585.2 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Mon Jun 17 1996 05:56 | 8 |
| .1
Agreed, they've had it. Their breed and the likes of those who support
them have had thier day. Its time for the *real* people who want peace
and a solution to carry on without them.
CHARLEY
|
| 1585.3 | | CHEFS::TRAFFIC | Don't get no satisfaction | Mon Jun 17 1996 06:13 | 91 |
| RTw 06/16 2019 Sinn Fein may be out in cold after Manchester bomb
By Martin Cowley
BELFAST, June 17 (Reuter) - The IRA's political wing Sinn Fein could be
left out in cold from Northern Ireland peace talks after the guerrillas
were blamed for the Manchester bomb blast that injured more than 200
people.
Irish Prime Minister John Bruton said on Sunday his government would
reconsider its relationship with Sinn Fein, while Britain's Northern
Ireland Secretary Sir Patrick Mayhew said he was even less willing than
before to trust the party.
Both said Saturday's bomb attack left Sinn Fein further away than ever
from being admitted to the multi-party peace talks that began last
Monday.
"We are having to review very seriously and fundamentally our
relationship with Sinn Fein and the republican movement as a whole in
the light of what has happened," Bruton told the BBC.
"This is a slap in the face to the people who have been trying, perhaps
against their better instincts, to give Sinn Fein a chance to show that
they could persuade the IRA to reinstate the ceasefire."
Britain and Ireland have kept Sinn Fein out of the talks on the future
of Northern Ireland because the Irish Republican Army (IRA) has refused
to restore an 18-month ceasefire shattered in February with a series of
bomb attacks in London.
Irish officials have maintained contact with Sinn Fein representatives
since then in the hope of winning a new ceasefire by the guerrilla
force, which has waged a 25-year campaign to end British rule in
Northern Ireland.
"We have a very grave situation as a result of this abominable attack,"
Mayhew said in Belfast on Sunday.
For Sinn Fein to join the talks, he said, the IRA would have to give up
violence completely and irrevocably.
"I suggest a bomb on Saturday and a redeclaration of a complete
cessation of military operations on Monday would seem to be a cynical
ploy, warning everybody else that if they need another dose, they'll
get one," Mayhew said.
But Cardinal Cahal Daly, the Roman Catholic Primate for Ireland and
Northern Ireland, said isolating the republican movement would achieve
nothing. "We must attempt the impossible to avert the intolerable," he
said after attending a church service with Mayhew.
"I can't understand why people in the republican movement want to go on
doing this," he added. "There is this opportunity for real talks,
substantive talks for peace which they have been asking for. What are
they up to?"
Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams, who sympathised with the victims of
the bomb attack but avoided condemning it, said all sides must "dig
deep" for a lasting peace built on dialogue.
"This is the only way to build momentum into a peace process and create
confidence across the board," he said.
Adams argues that the 15 percent of the vote that Sinn Fein won in
Northern Ireland elections last month to choose negotiators meant his
party should be allowed into the talks.
But David Trimble, leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, Northern
Ireland's largest party which represents the pro-British majority in
the province, said it could be time to lock out Sinn Fein forever.
"The time is coming when we will...have to decide that Sinn Fein have
left themselves out of the process not just for a minute but
permanently," he said.
British police hope videotapes will help them hunt down the IRA
guerrillas suspected of exploding the bomb that ripped through a busy
shopping centre in the northern English city of Manchester.
Police said the bomb, packed in a van that had been parked illegally
outside the centre, was one of the biggest to explode in mainland
Britain.
They released pictures taken from security cameras around central
Manchester that showed the orange and white van moments before it blew
up.
REUTER
|
| 1585.4 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Mon Jun 17 1996 06:23 | 84 |
| RTw 06/16 1913 British police hunt suspected IRA bombers
By David Ljunggren
MANCHESTER, England, June 17 (Reuter) - British police hope videotapes
will help them hunt down IRA guerrillas suspected of exploding the bomb
that ripped through a busy Manchester shopping centre, injuring more
than 200 people.
Police said on Sunday the bomb, packed in a van that had been parked
illegally outside the centre, was one of the biggest to explode in
mainland Britain.
They released pictures taken from security cameras around central
Manchester that showed the orange and white van moments before it blew
up on Saturday. Parking wardens had put a ticket on the van.
"We are examining all the video footage on private and public security
cameras," said police Superintendent Bernard Rees.
"We are very hopeful that the bombers were caught on film. We have
shots of the van parked and shots of it actually exploding."
Officials in the northern English city appealed to shop owners with
security videotapes to keep them in case they offered any clues about
the identity of the bombers.
Before Saturday's blast the van had been spotted in Peterborough, 100
miles (160 km) southeast of Manchester, police said.
A man who said he used to own the van told newspapers he had sold it
for cash to a man he described as Irish.
No one has claimed responsibility for the bomb attack but British
authorities immediately blamed the Irish Republican Army (IRA).
In February, the IRA ended an 18-month ceasefire and resumed its
guerrilla campaign to end British rule in Northern Ireland.
Several coded warnings were received before the bomb went off -- an IRA
hallmark.
Police were able to clear the immediate area -- they said they had to
move 80,000 people -- but the force of the blast shattered windows in a
large part of central Manchester.
Most of the injuries were suffered when glass showered down on people
in the streets. One woman needed 300 stitches in her face, doctors
said. Fifteen people were still in hospital on Sunday night.
Insurers said they faced bills totalling up to 100 million pounds ($153
million) after the blast.
The explosion sent weekend shoppers running for their lives and took
place as soccer fans packed into Manchester to watch a European
championship match between Germany and Russia.
The match went ahead as scheduled on Sunday, with Germany beating
Russia 3-0.
Police said the city centre would remain blocked off while they
searched for clues.
Britain and Ireland said the bomb attack cast heavy doubts on when or
even whether the IRA's political wing, Sinn Fein, would be allowed to
join all-party talks on the future of Northern Ireland.
The British and Irish governments had been hoping Sinn Fein would
persuade its guerrilla allies to declare a new ceasefire so the party
could take part in the talks that began last Monday.
"This is a slap in the face to the people who have been trying, perhaps
against their better instincts, to give Sinn Fein a chance to show that
they could persuade the IRA to reinstate the ceasefire," Irish Prime
Minister John Bruton told BBC television.
Unionist politicians who want Northern Ireland to stay British said the
talks should go on without Sinn Fein.
Britain's Northern Ireland Minister Sir Patrick Mayhew said even if the
IRA did declare a ceasefire, Sinn Fein would not be automatically
admitted to the talks.
REUTER
|
| 1585.5 | | CHEFS::TRAFFIC | Don't get no satisfaction | Mon Jun 17 1996 06:28 | 14 |
| Also taken from Reuter :-
>One woman needed 300 stitches in her face, doctors said. Fifteen people
>were still in hospital on Sunday night.
why?
>Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams, who sympathised with the victims of
>the bomb attack but avoided condemning it,
why?
CHARLEY
|
| 1585.6 | | TERRI::SIMON | Semper in Excernere | Mon Jun 17 1996 06:38 | 10 |
| � >One woman needed 300 stitches in her face, doctors said. Fifteen people
� >were still in hospital on Sunday night.
� why?
If it the one that I heard about, she happened to be facing a plate glass
window which shattered into her face. The surgeon said he had to completely
rebuild the flesh of her face from forehead to lower lip.
Simon
|
| 1585.7 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Mon Jun 17 1996 07:03 | 175 |
| UK News Electronic Telegraph Monday June 17 1996
Bomb fury isolates Sinn Fein
SINN FEIN was isolated in the aftermath of the Manchester bomb
last night as the British and Irish governments made clear that any
renewed IRA ceasefire would no longer be sufficient to allow the
republican movement into talks on the future of Ulster.
Widespread relief that no one was killed by the huge explosion that
wrecked the busy shopping centre of the city on Saturday, injuring more
than 200 people, was tempered by mounting doubts among politicians on
both sides of the border about the future of the Northern Ireland peace
talks.
Intelligence sources confirmed that the blast was the work of the IRA
and stressed that no breakaway faction possessed the means to mount
such a huge attack. It was, they said, confirmation that any IRA
ceasefire would be a tactical ploy and not a renunciation of violence.
The security services in Northern Ireland were bracing themselves for
further attacks and there were warnings from loyalist leaders that
their ceasefire was under severe strain.
The strength of the cross-party condemnation of the outrage was such
that British ministers disclosed that they were reconsidering the
internment of terrorist suspects, while Irish ministers threatened Sinn
Fein they might break off all official contacts.
Both Dublin and London reaffirmed their faith in the all-party talks,
which are due to resume in Belfast today, but came under strong
pressure from Unionists and Tory MPs to exclude Sinn Fein permanently
from the negotiations.
John Bruton, the Irish Prime Minister, said Sinn Fein's failure to
condemn the bombing, coupled with the murder two weeks ago of a Garda
officer, had done "appalling" damage to the credibility of the
republicans' political leadership.
Unionists also demanded the re-introduction of internment without trial
"This is a slap in the face to people who have been trying, against
perhaps their better instincts, to give Sinn Fein a chance to show that
they could persuade the IRA to reinstate the ceasefire," he said.
Mr Bruton said a ceasefire should be unequivocal and irrevocable but
appeared anxious not to lay down conditions that might prevent a change
of heart by the Sinn Fein leadership.
"It is not for us to tell them exactly what words they must use," he
said. "They must take the responsibility themselves now to find the
words that will convince the people of Britain, the people of Ireland,
that there will be no more Manchesters."
Andrew Hunter, the chairman of the Tory backbench Northern Ireland
committee, said: "I cannot now foresee the circumstances in which any
repeated ceasefire would carry conviction or credibility sufficient for
people to have confidence to sit down and talk with Sinn Fein."
Unionists also demanded the re-introduction of internment without
trial, and said Sinn Fein's chief negotiator, Martin McGuinness, should
be among those locked up. As a nationwide hunt for the suspected IRA
terrorists began, police said the bomb planted in a lorry outside the
city's Arndale Centre was at least as big as the 1,000lb device which
devastated London's Docklands and brought the IRA ceasefire to an end
four months ago.
It emerged that the lorry was stolen only days before the attack,
suggesting a remarkably swift operation in contrast to the months of
technical preparation that is believed to have preceded the South Quay
explosion, in which two people were killed.
Michael Howard, the Home Secretary, condemned the bombing as a
"dreadful, dastardly attack"
The seven-and-a-half ton lorry used had been spotted in Peterborough in
the east Midlands on Friday afternoon, 20 hours before bomb went off.
Although Greater Manchester police evacuated the immediate vicinity of
Saturday's bomb, after receiving a telephone warning using a recognised
IRA codeword, most of those injured were hit by flying glass scattered
over a wide area outside the security cordon.
Several were still in hospital last night. The survivors included
Melanie Russell, a heavily-pregnant young woman thrown 15 feet through
the air by the shockwave, and a 42-year-old woman who needed almost 300
stitches for facial lacerations.
Michael Howard, the Home Secretary, condemned the bombing as a
"dreadful, dastardly attack" and indicated that the Government might
bring back internment if necessary. The powers were invoked between
1971 and 1976 but abandoned after it was concluded they had led to an
increase in killings and an upturn in the number of recruits to the
IRA. No loyalists were interned.
"We have never ruled internment out and we are prepared to do whatever
we think will be effective in combating violence," Mr Howard said. He
gave a warning that any renewed ceasefire offer from the IRA would come
under intense scrutiny - and might now be impossible to accept.
"No one is going to be taken in. You cannot have a situation in which
there is a bomb in Manchester on Saturday, an announcement on Monday of
a ceasefire, and people allowed back into talks on Tuesday. The real
world is not like that," he told BBC1's On the Record.
"I do not think it is at all easy to see how we could have a ceasefire
that would be regarded as permanent or genuine."
"The peace process as we know it is very shattered - whether it can be
resurrected or not remains to be seen."
Malcolm Rifkind, the Foreign Secretary, said it was a "sad day" for
peace negotiations which had sought to include Sinn Fein on condition
that the IRA resumed its ceasefire. "We've had their response which is
fairly unequivocal and I'm afraid we must draw the necessary
conclusions," he told BBC Radio 4's World This Weekend.
The Irish Cabinet will meet tomorrow to review its links with Sinn
Fein, with the prospect of severing all contact. Dick Spring, the Irish
foreign minister, said he hoped the constitutional parties could still
make progress at the talks to build confidence among the people of
Ireland. But he added: "The peace process as we know it is very
shattered - whether it can be resurrected or not remains to be seen."
The Manchester bomb came eight days after the murder in Adare, Co
Limerick, of Det Gerry McCabe of the Irish special branch, during a
robbery carried out by the IRA's Munster unit.
Initially, the IRA said it was not involved. After it became clear this
position was unsustainable, however, it admitted that IRA members had
been responsible but said they had been acting "without authority".
Sinn Fein has refused to condemn the murder and yesterday all Gerry
Adams, its leader, would say was that it was time to "dig deep" to
maintain the peace negotiations.
His demand reflected a growing view among security sources that
internment could disable the IRA and loyalist paramilitary
organisations
Calls from Northern Ireland for terrorists to be interned were led by
Ken Maginnis, the Unionist security spokesman. "I want both governments
to agree that they will take the quartermasters, the godfathers - those
who direct this type of operation - out of society for as long as there
is a threat to society," he told GMTV's Sunday programme.
His demand reflected a growing view among security sources that
internment could disable the IRA and loyalist paramilitary
organisations if implemented simultaneously by both the British and the
Irish governments.
The intelligence services are now much more sophisticated than in the
Seventies and have a vast amount of information on terrorist suspects.
But the nationalist SDLP MP, Joe Hendron, said internment would be
counter-productive and urged that Sinn Fein be allowed into the peace
talks if a ceasefire was called.
The bomb also brought warnings that the loyalist ceasefire which has
held for almost two years would be put under strain. David Ervine of
the Progressive Unionist Party, which has links to the paramilitary
Ulster Volunteer Force, said: "The single biggest advantage that could
happen in the near future is that the two governments who have pandered
to the monster now deal with the monster. No more honeyed words. No
more condemnation. Do something about it."
The authorities in Manchester hope today to reopen all of the city
centre apart from a small area around the crater caused by the bomb,
which caused damage estimated at more than �100 million.
"Operation Cannon" police hunting the terrorists appealed for help from
businesses who might have security cameras trained on main routes into
Manchester.
Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc
|
| 1585.8 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Mon Jun 17 1996 07:10 | 112 |
| UK News Electronic Telegraph Monday June 17 1996
Blast victim faces years of surgery.
ONE OF the Manchester bomb victims has undergone seven hours
of surgery to her horrifically-injured face.
The 42-year-old woman, who has not been named, was struck by a huge
shard of glass as she and her colleagues joined the mass evacuation
from the Arndale shopping centre. Doctors say the glass struck with
such force that it might have killed her. Instead, it sliced "like a
knife through butter" through her forehead, cutting a jagged five-inch
flap of skin.
A specialist surgical team at the North Manchester General Hospital
spent seven hours trying to limit the damage. However, they have warned
her that she will have to endure many years of plastic surgery. Mr
Peter White, a consultant maxillofacial surgeon at the hospital, said:
"I have to say that her facial injuries are severe, to say the least.
"In the 19 years I have worked at North Manchester they are among the
most severe I have come across. The nearest I have seen to them was in
the pre-seat belt days when the occupants of cars were propelled
through windscreens. Glass injuries produce very irregular, jagged
lacerations which are remarkably difficult to repair."
The woman - the most severely injured of all the casualties - arrived
at the hospital shortly before midday. Her face was punctured by around
30 small pieces of glass, and in addition she had cuts to both arms and
to her right leg.
"I'm afraid we do lose count of the number of stitches we use, but it
must have been between 200 and 300."
She had also suffered a blunt injury to her right eye and had lost four
teeth. Mr White said two ophthalmic surgeons had investigated the eye
injury and concluded that the long-term prognosis was good. Despite the
severity of her injuries, he thought she was "very lucky" to be alive.
"I am surprised there are no fatalities."
Mr White and his team initially worked to control the bleeding. They
then cleaned the wounds and finally began repair the soft tissue, a
task he likened to "putting back the pieces of a jigsaw".
He added: "I'm afraid we do lose count of the number of stitches we
use, but it must have been between 200 and 300." Last night the
patient, who remains on a drip, was being comforted by her husband.
She is expected to remain in hospital for the next week, before
returning to her home in Lancashire. Staff are arranging for her to
receive counselling.
Mr White said: "I spoke to her after the operation and again today. It
is going to be a long process. She may require some plastic surgery
over several years to improve the appearance. She'll need a lot of
support and help.
"Many patients with facial injuries have their lives considerably
disturbed. People communicate by looking at each other's faces." A
second woman, aged 24, underwent 90 minutes of surgery to facial
injuries at the same hospital. She was being comforted by her fiance.
Three men and five other women remained at the North Manchester General
last night. All have less serious lacerations. Four patients at the
Hope Hospital, Salford, were said to be stable and satisfactory.
Nicholas Gardner, 22, of Swinton, Greater Manchester, needed 13
stitches to a head wound after the explosion ripped through his office
in the Royal Insurance building. He said: "I remember hearing one small
bang, but the second one was really loud."
His colleague, Philip Cooper, 22, of Hazel Grove, Stockport, who
suffered leg injuries, said: "I remember hearing the blast. I just bent
forward and put my hands behind my head."
Fiona McGill, 23, who was also treated for cuts to her legs, had been
at Victoria Station when the bomb exploded. She said: "A shower of
glass came down. Everyone was hysterical. The Marks and Spencer staff
took really good care of us."
Miss McGill, from Dublin, who was in Manchester to see her boyfriend,
James Tyler, expressed anger about the bombing, saying: "It's just
horrible what they've done. They are probably Irish people but I feel
quite ashamed about it."
The Duchess of Kent, who was in Manchester to visit the Royal Northern
College of Music, made an informal visit to the North Manchester
General Hospital to see the victims and congratulate staff.
"The patients were quite extraordinary," she said. "Of course they are
shocked and shattered, but they are showing such courage. They have
been through a horrid experience, like a nightmare they are going to
wake up from. They are stoical and have been very brave. There is no
bitterness whatsoever."
Manchester City Council has set up a help desk for shopkeepers. It
issued a help desk telephone number - 0161 234 1748 - and told
keyholders to report to the Town Hall in Albert Square. Some keyholders
have been allowed back into premises on the outer ring of the half-mile
damage zone.
But it is unlikely that any shops will reopen before Tuesday and
doubtful whether any keyholders will be able to get into the heart of
the city for several days. The Town Hall itself - the main part of
which was built in 1878 - sustained only a few broken windows.
Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc
|
| 1585.9 | LIARS | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Mon Jun 17 1996 07:57 | 21 |
| The following is taken from Sinn Fein's home page just after listing
its objectives...
>>To achieve these objectives, Sinn F�in has committed itself to restoring
>>the Irish Peace Process, initiated in dialogue begun almost three years
>>ago.
>>Earlier efforts were rewarded by a cessation of the armed struggle by the
>>Irish Republican Army, since ended, and discussions between Sinn F�in and
>>other parties, including the Irish, British and US governments.
>>Sinn F�in maintains its goal of a just and lasting peace, despite
>>continuing unionist intransigence and British bad faith.
>>Sinn F�in, through its President, Gerry Adams, and leadership, the Ard
>>Chomhairle, is continuing its efforts to bring about full, inclusive,
>>all-party peace talks without preconditions.
All I can say is "What a load of bolox...!"
Shaun.
|
| 1585.10 | | FUTURS::GIDDINGS_D | Pull that chain | Mon Jun 17 1996 08:28 | 70 |
| Cold contempt for peace
Financial Times Editorial
Monday June 17 1996
In its bombing of Manchester city centre the IRA/Sinn F�in
has shown callous contempt for the multi-party talks on the
future of Northern Ireland chaired by Mr George Mitchell.
Denied a place at the negotiating table unless they
reinstated a ceasefire, IRA leaders have responded with yet
more indiscriminate violence.
The bombing, which followed the IRA murder last week of a
policeman in the Irish Republic, has raised speculation of a
split between hardline terrorists and the political
leadership
of the Republican movement. Such theories are impossible
to test. But, in refusing to condemn the latest outrage Mr
Gerry Adams, the Sinn F�in president, has underlined
again his organisation's inextricable ties with the IRA's
military commanders.
Mr Adams's personal preference may well be for politics
over violence. But Sinn F�in clearly puts unity among
Republicans ahead of its oft-voiced conversion to the cause
of democratic politics. The odds are that the latest outrage
was being planned just as Mr Adams was campaigning in
the recent Northern Ireland elections on a platform of
peaceful negotiation. It is hard to believe that Sinn F�in
would have been kept in ignorance of the IRA plan.
So, even if the IRA were now to announce the restoration of
its ceasefire, it would be difficult to convince the
constitutional parties in the province to give Sinn F�in a
place at the negotiating table. Without the irrevocable
commitment to peace demanded at the weekend by Mr
John Bruton, the Irish prime minister, a new ceasefire would
look now like a short-term tactical manoeuvre.
While refusing to give up all hope in the peace process, Mr
Bruton has announced a necessary review of his
government's links with Sinn F�in. One must assume that
President Bill Clinton will do the same. There has been
nothing dishonourable in the US administration's efforts to
act as a broker in Northern Ireland. But it is difficult
now to
see how it could continue to allow Mr Adams a visa, or for
money to be raised in the US to fund the cause of terrorism
in the UK and Ireland. Others, too, including the media, must
now reconsider their attitude towards the Republican
movement.
It would be a mistake, though, to assume that the latest
outrages have the support of the Catholic community in
Northern Ireland. There is probably as much dismay in the
nationalist Falls Road as in the unionist Shankhill at the
prospect of renewed violence. Many who recently voted for
Sinn F�in did so on the basis that it meant what it said
about peace.
It is now up to those at the talks to harness that mood to
the
cause of an eventual political settlement. The opening week
has not been heartening, with bickering over procedure
obscuring the objective of an equitable agreement between
unionists and nationalists. But if the negotiations
ultimately
fail, the IRA's bombers will in some part have succeeded.
|
| 1585.11 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Mon Jun 17 1996 08:39 | 15 |
| It's time Sinn Fein came off the fence, and decided just where they
stand. Are they a serious political party, committed to finding a just
and lasting peace through democracy, dialogue and compromise, or are
they the puppets of a gang of murdering cowardly bastards? I know which
I think is the case. If they are the former, then they must do two
things, and quickly:
1) Unequivocally condemn the latest outrage and those that have gone
before.
2) Demand of the IRA an immediate and permanent ceasefire, followed by
speedy disarmament.
NFC.
Laurie.
|
| 1585.12 | Speculation | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Mon Jun 17 1996 09:06 | 106 |
|
HOME NEWS
Monday, June 17, 1996
(C) Irish Times
IRA returning to war, say republican sources
Suzanne Breen finds prospects for the peace process bleak
among republican grassroots
The word among republican grassroots in west Belfast is that
the IRA is returning to war. The Manchester bomb is not a
one-off, they say. There will be further attacks in English cities
and it is only a matter of time before the conflict resumes in the
North.
IRA rank-and-file have been told over the past two months
that the armed campaign will soon restart in Northern Ireland.
They have been putting into place the logistical measures for
such a development.
IRA units, which had been meeting sporadically during the
ceasefire, are now regularly spotted together. There is
widespread support among ordinary Provisional IRA members
for a resumption of violence. The peace process is seen as
having run its course.
The lack of progress at all-party talks at Stormont Castle last
week - with unionist objections to former Senator George
Mitchell dominating proceedings - has strengthened the view
that the negotiations are not worth entering anyway.
"Sinn F�in isn't at the table and there are still massive
difficulties," said one party source. "Imagine what it would be
like if we were there? I don't think the talks have much
credibility.
"The Brits are giving nothing and the unionists are giving
nothing. What would be the point in going to Stormont even if
we were allowed in?"
Sources insist that the bomb in Manchester was authorised by
the Army Council and not rebel units, as some newspapers
have suggested. It was carried out by a cell living and operating
in England which reports directly to the IRA leadership.
The dominant feeling among IRA rank-and-file is that the
republican movement has been continually humiliated by the
British government since the ceasefire was declared 20 months
ago.
The Government is criticised for allegedly not putting adequate
pressure on London. Discontent with the peace process
surprisingly has not been placated by Sinn F�in's record 15.5
per cent vote in last month's elections.
"It was a good result, but it didn't by itself move the process
forward," said one middle-ranking Sinn F�in member in
Andersonstown.
Certainly, the security forces appear to believe that the IRA is
planning to relaunch its campaign in the North. There has been
an increasingly heavy British army and RUC presence in
republican areas of Belfast over the past week.
However, some republican sceptics still doubt that the "armed
struggle" will restart in full gear. They believe that attacks like
the Manchester bombing are simply the "armed wing of the
peace process".
One source thought the bomb was to get hardliners "off the
leadership's back for a while". There is still some speculation
that it could be a "pay-off" to militants for a reinstatement -
albeit temporary - of the IRA ceasefire.
The natural thrust of Mr Gerry Adams and his colleagues is
towards constitutionalism. Privately, many senior Sinn F�in
members have said that the past 25 years exacted too high a
price from their community, given its limited political
achievements.
However, the leadership is determined to avoid a split at all
costs. Internal tensions are running high, and some sources
suggest that calling another ceasefire would risk a split. One
Provisional IRA member in west Belfast said the Sinn F�in
leadership would stand by the IRA if it returned to full-scale
war.
Leading proponents of the peace process are said to have
promised that they will not condemn the IRA in such an
eventuality.
Even if the leadership manages a reinstatement of the ceasefire,
political progress will surely be even slower this time round.
Much cynicism will surround Sinn F�in's motives. The British
government and the unionists will make even harsher demands
regarding decommissioning.
If grassroots are itchy now, their patience would be stretched
to breaking-point under such circumstances. Whatever the
IRA decides over the next few weeks, the prospects for the
peace process seem bleak.
(C) Irish Times
|
| 1585.14 | | TERRI::SIMON | Semper in Excernere | Mon Jun 17 1996 10:39 | 12 |
| Yes, we don't want to post a note against Digital P&Ps do we.
But a well thought out and constructive reply from Mark would
be nice, therefore;
Mark,
Do you think this latest bombing will help or hinder
the current peace process?
Simon
|
| 1585.15 | QUESTION | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Mon Jun 17 1996 10:44 | 13 |
| I'm curious as to what Mr Mark Holohan thinks of the Manchester Bombing
on saturday and how he feels towards the 200 or so people who were
injured. I'm curious because one of his last notes before this bombing
was that he did not think the IRA should call a ceasefire.
Given the nature of the IRA's Mainland Campaign and the comparitive
brutality of it's England Department one can only conclude that someone
who feels an IRA should not reinstate their ceasefire must be someone
who agrees that such bombings of innocent civilians are acceptable.
What do you think Mark ?
Shaun.
|
| 1585.16 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Mon Jun 17 1996 10:46 | 9 |
| Simon,
There is nothing against P&P in my note, and nothing I say in there
hasn't already been said elsewhere. No, I read the note again, and
thought that it might be misconstrued, so I decided to make sure that
there would be no doubt. This whole issue is too important to let
personalities get in the way.
Cheers, Laurie.
|
| 1585.17 | What Cause can Justify THIS!!?! | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Mon Jun 17 1996 12:57 | 39 |
| Woman tells of `moment I feared I had lost my baby'
By Oliver McGuckin
FOURTEEN of the 200 people injured in the blast were today still being
treated in hospital.
One of the luckiest survivors, a heavily pregnant woman thrown 15ft
through the air by the shockwave, was close to tears as she spoke of
the moment she feared she had lost her baby.
Melanie Russell, 23, from Heywood, near Rochdale, Greater
Manchester,was shopping for last-minute things for her baby, due in
just a couple of weeks, when the bomb went off. From her bed at St
Mary's Hospital, Manchester, she said: "I heard it go off. It knocked
me flying and I blanked out. I came around in the ambulance. "I was
more worried about the baby than anything because I could not feel her
moving." Melanie, later discharged after being reassured by hospital
staff that extensive checks had established her unborn child was
unhurt, branded the bombers "crazy and pathetic". Not all those caught
up in the explosion escaped so lightly.
One 42-year-old married woman from Lancashire needed up to 300 stitches
during seven hours of facial surgery at North Manchester General
Hospital. Consultant facial surgeon Peter White said the woman was
lucky to be alive. He added that her injuries were among the most
serious lacerations he had seen in 19 years at the hospital. The woman,
who was conscious when she was brought in had lost a large "tongue of
tissue", slashed from her forehead by a piece of glass. She had lost
four teeth and at least 30 splinters of glass and a piece of wood were
removed from her body. "If you touched her arm you could feel multiple
pieces of glass", he said. A team of three surgeons operated on her.
This morning she was now conscious but had difficulty speaking because
her lips are very swollen. Mr White added: "I think she was very lucky.
If a piece of glass or some other missile had fallen directly on top of
her head it could have split her wide open."
(c) Belfast Telegraph
|
| 1585.18 | Quiet isn't it? | WARFUT::CHEETHAMD | | Tue Jun 18 1996 05:05 | 2 |
| Mark seems remarkably quiet, maybe he's embarrased.
|
| 1585.19 | Murdering, cowardly scums' quest for peace | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Tue Jun 18 1996 05:32 | 55 |
| Although the moderator has been copied on correspondence, and has made
no call for this, the original version of this note has been removed
because it was deemed "offensive" by an individual. Despite a later
clarification of its intent, the individual was not satisfied, and made
open threats of escalation to the highest person in Personnel to me,
presumably assuming that because I'm a contractor, I can be bullied, or
perhaps better phrased, terrorised into submission. Well, I'm not
stupid, and I'm not interested in getting involved in a pissing
contest. The company, and my group is part of it, is on hard times, and
wasting effort and time on appeasing egos is not a worthwhile use of
time or money. Besides, PP&P 6.54 clearly states that offensive
material is not to be posted to notes conferences, and now that an
individual has made it known to me that he deems it offensive, I'm
happy to comply with that.
However, as the individual concerned declined to state exactly what was
offensive about the original note, I have to assume that as most of it
is quotes from notes previously written by this individual, it was
the inclusion and juxtaposition of the individual's name that was in
some way offensive, as opposed to what was written. After all, this
individual was the originator of the examples I have paraphrased, and
which I and many others have found offensive previously, and which we
have asked, and failed, to have removed. Nevertheless, this one has
been removed and edited, and henceforth is to be considered as
rhetorical, as a cry of anguish from the heart, triggered by the horror
I feel at the senseless and indiscriminate bombing of innocent people.
The entity to which it is addressed is to be considered as no
identifiable individual. It is to be considered as a series of
rhetorical questions; to which, perforce, no answer is expected.
Lastly, I must express my "regret" and "sorrow" at any offence my note
may have inadvertently caused.
So, here is the amended note:
Remind me again, remind me just how the British Government is stalling
the peace process.
Remind me how planting a huge bomb on a sunny Saturday afternoon in a
busy shopping centre full of civilians helps the peace process.
Remind me how maiming and injuring more than 200 innocent people,
including pregnant women, and children, helps the peace process.
Remind me how it is possible for a civilised human to "understand" the
need for these terrible, cowardly acts.
Remind me about the concept of "economic targets".
Remind me again how it is possible to believe that the IRA shouldn't
call a permanent ceasefire.
Remind me.
Laurie.
|
| 1585.20 | | MOVIES::POTTER | http://www.vmse.edo.dec.com/~potter/ | Tue Jun 18 1996 05:41 | 13 |
| I'm not going to forward the original private mail, but anyone who is proud
of this outrage might like to know about an email penpal of mine who has
been studying dance. She was approaching auditions for one of the major ballet
companies, but unfortunately got caught in this "political statement".
She was blown to the ground and has hurt her wrist badly enough that she cannot
dance, and so cannot audition for another year. She's been studying dance
since she was four, and she's now twenty.
Just one girl's pain; I'm sure it won't matter to certain people in this
notesfile...
//atp
|
| 1585.21 | | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Tue Jun 18 1996 06:57 | 7 |
| I think it would be very dangerous for digital if someone was to take
certain notes from this conference and let them fall into the hands of
the press....especially the English Press. I would hate to think that
people might make the error of concluding that Digital actually
supports terrorism.
Shaun.
|
| 1585.22 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Tue Jun 18 1996 11:07 | 6 |
| .18
Not embarrased, just proved wrong.
CHARLEY
|
| 1585.23 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Tue Jun 18 1996 12:48 | 9 |
| No, you forget, he has no original opinions. We'll have to wait until
SF's death squads produce a press release on the Net. Then he'll post
something, doubtless blaming HMG. You'll be able to tell it isn't his
own work by the lack of spelling and grammatical errors.
I have certain proof he's read this topic, so there has to be a reason
for his silence.
Laurie.
|
| 1585.24 | | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Tue Jun 18 1996 12:58 | 7 |
| Well Sin Feign and Anna Properbolox only update their pages on thursday
I think...so we should all be in for a giggle on friday then.
By the way, are there any members of 'Fiends of Sinn Fein' in this
conference ?
Shaun.
|
| 1585.25 | Warning | TALLIS::DARCY | Alpha Migration Tools | Tue Jun 18 1996 16:42 | 9 |
| >I think it would be very dangerous for digital if someone was to take
>certain notes from this conference and let them fall into the hands of
>the press....especially the English Press. I would hate to think that
>people might make the error of concluding that Digital actually...
Let me reiterate that these Digital conferences are the property of
Digital Equipment Corporation and are for Internal Use Only. They are
not to be distributed to anyone outside of Digital Equipment
Corporation. The corporate folks takes a this issue very seriously.
|
| 1585.26 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Wed Jun 19 1996 05:05 | 4 |
| A phrase involving stable doors and bolting horses springs to mind.
Still, you know best, we've all warned you before.
Laurie.
|
| 1585.27 | | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Wed Jun 19 1996 06:38 | 19 |
| I remember being at Plymouth University when two non-sabaticals on the
student union executive happen to mention that they agreed with the
IRAs cause during an Ordinary General Meeting. A union member then slipped
off to the local press and gave them all the details - including a copy
of the minutes. The next thing we knew, The Sun had got involved and
the two people in question were expelled for bringing the University and
Students Union into disrepute. However, the publicity caused no end of
damage to the University, both financialy and with respect to its
image.
The person who actually went to the press was never identified. Now I
know that this note conference is the property of Digital but I'm
concerned that some angry individual will throw caution aside and cause
immense damage to Digital...as a moderator then I think you should take
more of an acive and un-biased role in your moderating.
Helpfully,
Shaun.
|
| 1585.28 | Summary Justice? | WARFUT::CHEETHAMD | | Wed Jun 19 1996 11:08 | 12 |
| Interesting thing about the Manchester bombing is the amount of anger
generated this time. I've spoken to friends who would certainly be
classed as left wing/liberal and in one case certainly, anti-authoritarian.
In all cases the opinion expressed is that the planners and
perpitrators of the bombing are savages, have forfeited all claim to
human rights, and that the SAS should be tasked with killing them.
Comments?
Incidentally two people from this office (Warrington U.K.) were caught
up in Manchester, both only (only!) shocked fortunately.
Dennis
|
| 1585.29 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Wed Jun 19 1996 11:28 | 11 |
| >have forfeited all claim to human rights, and that the SAS should be
>tasked with killing them. Comments?
No, this should not be done. It would play right into the hands of Sinn
Fein/IRA and their supporters who would start spouting their hypocritical
bullshit about civil/human rights abuse, trial without a jury, murdering
SAS scum etc. etc. even though its perfectly justified when their boys
kill and maim innocent children, pensioners and pregnant women.
CHARLEY
|
| 1585.30 | | TALLIS::DARCY | Alpha Migration Tools | Wed Jun 19 1996 11:33 | 17 |
| >The person who actually went to the press was never identified. Now I
>know that this note conference is the property of Digital but I'm
>concerned that some angry individual will throw caution aside and cause
>immense damage to Digital...as a moderator then I think you should take
>more of an acive and un-biased role in your moderating.
>
>Helpfully,
>
>Shaun.
OK will do. I will try my best to be more active and more un-biased
in my moderating. If you have specific suggestions, either post them
here or if you would prefer send them via e-mail to [email protected]
or call me at DTN 227-4109.
Thanks,
George
|
| 1585.31 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Wed Jun 19 1996 12:17 | 21 |
| RE: <<< Note 1585.30 by TALLIS::DARCY "Alpha Migration Tools" >>>
>> OK will do. I will try my best to be more active and more un-biased
>> in my moderating. If you have specific suggestions, either post them
>> here or if you would prefer send them via e-mail to [email protected]
>> or call me at DTN 227-4109.
Assuming you're serious, I'll simply repeat what I've said before:
1) Get some help to share the load/responsibility, preferably someone
this side of the pond.
2) Never hide a note: sent it back to the author copying yourself, and
delete it. The author of a note can subsequently unhide it and you'd
never know.
3) Make judgements on the basis of PP&P not your own opinions, values
of beliefs (this is hard: I know...)
4) If noters complain, as many of us have about some notes, those notes
are automatically in contravention of PP&P 6.54, and should be
deleted (see point 2 above), not left there.
HtH, Laurie.
|
| 1585.32 | | CHEFS::UKARCHIVING | file is file la la la la la | Wed Jun 19 1996 12:33 | 6 |
| Another *fact!*, it is also lucky that Digital closed down their office
in the Arndale centre a few years ago or certain moronic elements of
this conference would be out on their ears.
dickie
|
| 1585.33 | | WOTVAX::DODD | | Wed Jun 19 1996 13:01 | 7 |
| It was a different Arndale centre. We were at Stretford, the bomb was
in the central one. There are quite a few Arndales all built at about
the same time by a developer.
Just to be accurate.
Andrew
|
| 1585.34 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Thu Jun 20 1996 07:56 | 62 |
| UK News Electronic Telegraph Thursday June 20 1996 Issue 410
Hunt for hooded men who planted Manchester bomb By Nigel Bunyan
POLICE hunting the Manchester bombers issued descriptions yesterday of
two hooded men who parked the van full of explosives in the city centre
and then calmly walked off into the throng of shoppers.
They also issued an E-fit of a baby-faced man with an Irish accent who
gave a taxi driver money to pay for the vehicle the day before.
Detectives are seeking a woman who watched this man talking to two taxi
drivers on a rank outside the Tesco superstore in the centre of
Peterborough, Cambs, at around midday last Friday.
Colin Phillips, Assistant Chief Constable of Greater Manchester,
renewed his appeal for information about the bombers' 132-mile journey
between Peterborough and Corporation Street. Police have no positive
sightings of the lorry, registration number C214 ACL, although they
believe it would have had to be re-fuelled with diesel.
The two bombers reached the city centre shortly after 9am and parked on
double yellow lines outside Marks & Spencer at 9.22am, four minutes
before a traffic warden issued a parking ticket. Despite the warmth of
the morning both men wore blue cagoules over hooded sweatshirts with
the hoods pulled up, and sunglasses.
One is described as aged between 20 and 30, slim, between 5ft 8in and
5ft 10in. The second man is aged between 30 and 40, of medium build and
about 6ft tall, with a long nose.
They walked towards Cannon Street before turning diagonally into
Cateaton Street, the scene of the last Manchester bomb in 1992. A few
minutes before parking, they may have spoken to a member of the public
in nearby St Mary's Gate.
The orange and white box van was distinctive because its metal roller
cargo door had been replaced with one made of strips of untreated
plywood. Its rear number plate was in the top right-hand corner.
It was bought for cash from a dealer in Eye, near Peterborough, on
Friday. The dealer never met the buyer, who had an Irish accent. He
arranged for a taxi driver to deliver �2,000 in a brown envelope. The
lorry was left at 3pm in a commercial car park in the Fengate area of
Peterborough, unlocked with the keys inside, and was moved some time
before 6pm.
The man who paid the taxi driver was aged between 35 and 40, 5ft 8in
tall, and of heavy build, with light brown hair about an inch thick all
over. He wore a pale blue buttoned-up shirt worn outside a pair of dark
olive trousers. He was "generally untidy".
At first he had approached an Asian taxi driver, whose cab was second
in the rank on Broadway, Peterborough, at around midday on Friday. The
first driver in the queue got out and joined in the conversation.
As a result the man with the money went off with the first driver. The
woman, who was waiting for a cab, had watched the three men talking
and, when she got into the second cab, asked what the conversation was
about. She was white, in her forties, and had jet black hair.
Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc
|
| 1585.35 | Another economic target speaks... | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Thu Jun 20 1996 07:59 | 32 |
| UK News Electronic Telegraph Thursday June 20 1996 Issue 410
Blast victim with 300 stitches in her face says life must go on
A WOMAN who needed 300 stitches in her face after the Manchester bomb
blast said yesterday that her life "has got to carry on".
In a statement issued from hospital, Barbara Welch, 42, of Preston,
Lancs, also thanked medical and emergency services staff. She said: "I
want to say how wonderful everyone has been. In particular the
firefighters who came to rescue me, the ambulance crew and the doctors
and nurses at North Manchester General Hospital.
"They have been superb. I could not have asked for anything better.
Every single person has been outstanding. Special thanks also to all my
family and friends for their good wishes, flowers, cards and their
strong support. I wish it had not happened, but my life has got to
carry on."
A hospital spokesman said that Mrs Welch could now speak, but was
expected to remain in hospital until the end of the week. The
consultant who examined her immediately after the blast has said that
she was lucky to survive.
Peter White said after the bombing that Mrs Welch had received some of
the most serious lacerations he had seen in 19 years at the hospital.
A large "tongue of tissue" had been slashed from her forehead by a
piece of glass, he said. She had undergone seven hours of facial
surgery.
Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc
|
| 1585.36 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Thu Jun 20 1996 08:01 | 54 |
| UK News Electronic Telegraph Thursday June 20 1996 Issue 410
Talks on Ulster set to continue as IRA activity increases
By Toby Harnden in Belfast and Robert Shrimsley
ALL-PARTY talks on the future of Ulster will continue, John Major and
John Bruton, his Irish counterpart, agreed yesterday.
The agreement came as security forces reported a marked increase in IRA
activity in the province. As fears rose that the terrorists were
preparing a resumption of hostilities in Northern Ireland, the two
leaders spoke by telephone for 20 minutes.
Downing Street said later that they had reaffirmed their determination
to continue talks and that the position of both governments on dealing
with Sinn Fein remained the same.
But the emphasis on continuing with the talks despite the absence of
Sinn Fein has been undermined by protracted wrangling in Belfast.
Unionist parties continued their efforts yesterday to limit the role of
George Mitchell, the former US senator, who was appointed overall
chairman last week.
As the politicians argued, security forces across Northern Ireland
remained on a state of alert. RUC and Army checkpoints in west Belfast
stopped all vehicles and sniffer dogs were used to check the backs of
vans and lorries for traces of explosives.
Hundreds of troops were ordered back on to the streets on Tuesday night
after an intelligence warning that an IRA bomb was being moved from
south Armagh to mid-Ulster.
It was believed that the IRA intended either to attack a loyalist
target or provoke loyalists into carrying out a pre-emptive strike.
A senior intelligence source said: "The republicans know the loyalists
are on a knife-edge and are trying to entice them into striking first.
If they can achieve that then the IRA will come out and say they're
acting in defence of the community. That's the game we're in."
IRA activity has increased noticeably this week, with local commanders
holding meetings and terrorists being seen in unfamiliar areas. Such
changes in patterns of movement tend to take place before an attack.
The IRA units based in south Armagh, Co Monaghan and east Tyrone have
been most active and are understood to have targeted loyalists in the
predominantly Protestant areas of Portadown, Banbridge and Lurgan.
Security gates came down around all three towns on Tuesday and road
blocks were set up by the Royal Ulster Constabulary and Army throughout
the province.
Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc
|
| 1585.37 | | TALLIS::DARCY | Alpha Migration Tools | Thu Jun 20 1996 11:10 | 33 |
| >1) Get some help to share the load/responsibility, preferably someone
> this side of the pond.
Will think about this.
>2) Never hide a note: sent it back to the author copying yourself, and
> delete it. The author of a note can subsequently unhide it and you'd
> never know.
I will try mailing and then deleting as per your suggestion.
>3) Make judgements on the basis of PP&P not your own opinions, values
> of beliefs (this is hard: I know...)
I usually do. ;v) If you find instances where I haven't, please
post them or mail them to me. I will try harder at this.
>4) If noters complain, as many of us have about some notes, those notes
> are automatically in contravention of PP&P 6.54, and should be
> deleted (see point 2 above), not left there.
I have tried to follow this in the past. And will do so in the
future (as usual within reason).
I will also preface any moderator notes with <MODERATOR ON>/
<MODERATOR OFF> signals, so that noters can differentiate
between my "moderation" and my "personal opinions".
Thanks for the suggestions Laurie.
Does Shaun Menzies have any suggestions?
George
|
| 1585.38 | | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Thu Jun 20 1996 12:19 | 25 |
| George,
Unfortunately, I don't have any moderator experience, mainly due to the
lack of time ;^)...I know from other mod's tales of woe that moderating
a conference can be a real strain on the individual and I can imagine
that its quite demanding to have to read every note, exercise mod privs
in an unbiased way and before emotional sentiment starts to lambast
the mod with the wraths of hell. This task is made even more diffulcult
given the nature of discussions in this particular conference and, I
must say, I don't envy you in the least.
Your task can be made much simpler by noters who keep PP&P in the back
of their minds whilst writing a note or a reply (especially PP&P 6.54...
and I would ask all noters here to refresh themselves with its contents
regularly).
As Kevin has mentioned before, this is a DEC notes conference and not a
pub discussion. It is unfortunate that us as noters cannot claim
freedom of speech or indeed just leave the pub table if we take offence
to certain comments, but that is the nature of note conferences and
thus we must *all* - noters and mods alike - be extra vigilant.
So come on guys, help George out by keeping PP&P in mind.
Shaun.
|
| 1585.39 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Thu Jun 20 1996 12:51 | 9 |
| George, in another conference far away, very recently, someone posted
something a fairly senior manager objected to. It was escalated
sky-high and I very nearly lost my job over it. My crime was to have
not deleted it immediately. I, as moderator, was held responsible for
its continued visibility, not the person who posted it. Just FYI... All
these PP&P "rules" are vague enough to be open to interpretation by
individual managers.
Laurie.
|
| 1585.40 | The Feelgood Factor is back.. | METSYS::BENNETT | Straight no chaser.. | Fri Jun 21 1996 11:35 | 44 |
| I've been browsing around in here -- on and off for the last few days
-- without anything to say, so I'll play Devil's Advocate for a while.
I've argued before in other notes that both the Republican and Loyalist
paramilitaries are corrupt. I think both sets of organisations have
"purist" political and terrorist factions -- the tip of the icebergs.
Both have a lot of neighbourhood power-mad greed-heads who are in it
for the money. In effect, both have their own Mafia-like gang
structures. They have territories -- spheres of influence and revenue.
They don't like any intrusion -- irrespective of its source. So, they
are just as likely to maim one of "their own" as they are to stage a
"sectarian" attack on people in a bordering antipathetic area.
There are those who relish the prospect of murderous violence against
their philosophical and tribal enemies; people who have been brought up
in an apartheid system (in all but name). Divide and Rule may be an old
idea but it's a very effective way of maintaining power. The British are
famously good at it, but not unique in that respect.
I digress.
It is clear to me, at any rate, that the IRA is dangerously close to
splitting. It is clear to most of you that there has been a fair bit
of resistance to any meaningful peace process on all sides. (I refer to
people in the headlines -- not ordinary folks in the streets.) I put
it to you that the coffers are running a bit low in Loyalist and
Republican gang circles, and that that is the real reason for a return
to violence. Peace would mean poverty for the thugs. A nicely managed
return to violence would suit both sides. Dress it up as neighbourhood
policing or whatever you like, the result is the same. The place is no
better or worse than the gangland turf roamed by the Krays and their
ilk in the 60's.
As Major and his fraudulent hollow cabinet struggle to stay in power
with a Parliamentary majority of one, and as murdering, thieving
organised criminals reassert their power on the streets, peoples lives
are yet again being used as levers and bargaining chips in a system
that is reluctant now to rid itself of a cancer that has taken root.
Why won't someone grasp the reality and do something about it?
John
|
| 1585.41 | | BIS1::MENZIES | Resume the Ceasefire!!! | Fri Jun 21 1996 11:40 | 1 |
| Like vote Labour.
|
| 1585.42 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Fri Jun 21 1996 11:53 | 5 |
| RE: .40
Well said, that man.
Laurie.
|
| 1585.43 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Fri Jun 21 1996 12:17 | 10 |
| .40
Thankyou JB. Amen to that.
.41
Don't be so bloody stupid.
CHARLEY
|
| 1585.44 | Same old story | EASE::KEYES | Waiting for an alibi | Fri Jun 21 1996 12:41 | 18 |
| >.40
....We have heard this before...before the ceasefire..When the whole Northern
Situation was classified as a criminal problem...Or at least thats how the
Governments tried to clasify it...Didn't improve matters at all...Its
the old "run and hide" behind the easy answer to the whole thing.
I don't think the Provies will split..They will probably give up on this
phase of talks...until the British/Irish political situation has changed or the
bigots on both sides have passed away...then maybe try again...Adams
tried and didn't deliver to either Washington (a ceasefire) nor to the IRA..(a
place at realistic talks) so maybe he HAS failed. I don't see any of the Adams
bashers giving us any alternatives. The mans practical position can't be THAT
difficult to comprehend. Its not looking good..nutters on both side are
armed with excuses to murder and maim...
Mick
|
| 1585.45 | Not quite.. | METSYS::BENNETT | Straight no chaser.. | Fri Jun 21 1996 14:03 | 27 |
| Re: .44
>> ....We have heard this before...before the ceasefire..When the whole
>> Northern Situation was classified as a criminal problem...Or at least
>> thats how the Governments tried to clasify it...Didn't improve matters
>> at all...Its the old "run and hide" behind the easy answer to the whole
>> thing.
That was a long time ago, Mick. It may have been talked about then in
such simplistic terms. One of the problems now is that the British
Government is reluctant to go public with the realisation that the
whole ugly mess isn't just terrorist or political or economic. It's
all three _plus_ organised crime. When the troubles die down, the
criminals will still be there controlling who gets a slice of what
booty.
I suggest the IRA will split because maybe.. just maybe.. the "purists"
are less into the spoils of mammon than the drug dealers, bank robbers,
racketeers and extortionists who are in it for themselves. They're all
scum -- just two different types of scum under the same banner.
If anybody is running and hiding, it's the politicians who seem to
be looking at only a part of the overall problem.
John
|
| 1585.46 | fair point | EASE::KEYES | Waiting for an alibi | Fri Jun 21 1996 14:41 | 12 |
|
fair point...yes there always will be that side of the problem...Too
many guns will be loose..decomisioning will never be 100%...I listen to
Rev Mccrea this morning on the news..and you really have to wonder do
alot of this "politic heads" really want a settlement at all..he will NEVER
sit and talk with republicans..Ceasefire or not..never.. "I am a
man..not a child".."Ulster needs me at its greatest hour"..its would be
a comedy if it wasn't the innocent who are the butt of the joke...
anyway i'm off for a pint
mick
|
| 1585.47 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Cyclops no more! | Mon Jul 01 1996 05:04 | 6 |
| Another fine display of SF/IRA's peace-making skills at the weekend.
Nice one.
Remind me...
Laurie.
|
| 1585.48 | | CHEFS::COOPERT1 | tell mum before you go somewhere | Mon Jul 01 1996 07:16 | 7 |
| Yes, using mortars from quarter of a mile away. Very courageous. Why
can't they stand toe to toe with the army?
Because they are weak.
CHARLEY
|