Conference tallis::celt

Slight tangent to this ... what's all this I hear that they don't
know where the elected body will sit?

This is reported to be the source of much humor locally? People have
started to make suggestions as to where it might be:

 o On a boat that drifts around the coast?
 o Sports center's?
 o In a closed  Jail? (was  it "Crumlin" Road suggested, as "a lot of the       
                       delegates would feel at home there!")


It doesn't sound as though an awful lot of thought has gone into this!

M

    RTw  05/30 1906  Last-minute surge boosts Northern Irish vote

    By Maggie Fox

    BELFAST, May 31 (Reuter) - A late surge in voting pushed turnout to
    about 60 percent in Northern Ireland elections to choose negotiators to
    debate the troubled province's future, but many people were cynical
    about the outcome.

    The vote was held to elect a 110-member forum to discuss issues in the
    British-rule province in a general way. Those elected will also provide
    a pool for all-party peace talks due to start on June 10.

    But confusion over what the poll meant, combined with cold rain and
    gales, kept many voters away. Officials estimated that only up to 60
    percent of those registered turned out, with most voting during the
    final hours of balloting.

    "This is an extremely important day for Northern Ireland," said David
    Trimble, head of the pro-British Ulster Unionist Party and the
    politician who pressed hardest for the vote.

    The Unionists hoped that the results would demonstrate their strength
    in the province, where mostly pro-British Protestants outnumber
    predominantly Catholic Irish republicans by a ratio of six to four.

    But many people who braved the rain to vote said they doubted whether
    the peace forum would bring any changes to a province torn apart by 25
    years of guerrilla warfare.

    "You have to vote. You have to have a choice," said one young man on
    his way to a polling station in West Belfast's Shankill Road district.
    "But I think it's a waste of time."

    Gerry Adams, leader of the Irish Republican Army's Sinn Fein political
    wing, opposed the election at first but then embraced it as a chance to
    argue that his party had a legal mandate to take part in all-party
    talks.

    "If we get any talks we will be at the talks," he said on Thursday.

    Britain says Sinn Fein, which wants to unite Northern Ireland with the
    Irish republic, cannot take part in the talks unless the IRA restores a
    ceasefire shattered with a series of bomb attacks in London starting in
    February.

    Officials will not start counting the votes until Friday morning. Pat
    Bradley, the province's chief electoral officer, said he expected the
    first results by about lunchtime and a final result by early evening.

    A complex formula decides who gets into the forum, a discussion
    assembly with no lawmaking powers and due to last only one year. The
    top 10 parties at the forum will also have seats at the peace talks.

    Politicians and academic analysts predicted that the four established
    Unionist and Irish nationalist parties would win the most seats,
    reinforcing Northern Ireland's divided society.

    REUTER
    
    
    
    (Kevin, don't be silly)

    The Final state of the parties after the 18 constituency results.
    
    Political Party			Number of Seats
    ===================================================
    Ulster Unionist Party		      30
    Democratic Unionist Party		      24
    Social Democratic and Labour Party	      21
    Sinn Fein			 	      17
    Alliance				       7
    UK Unionist Party			       3
    Progressive Unionist Party		       2
    The Ulster Democratic Party		       2
    Labour				       2
    Northern Ireland Women's Coalition	       2
    

    The fact that Sinn fein obtained 15% of the electorial vote is quite
    interesting. The most they have ever polled is 12.8% and that was
    around the time of the hunger strikes. It is quite obvious that a peace
    table without the presence of Sinn Fein will not be just a farce. It is
    also quite obvious that the Unionists, who hold the majority of seats,
    will not sit at the same table as Sinn Fein untill the IRA reinstate
    the ceasefire. It goes without saying that a peace conference without
    the Unionists will also be a farce.
    
    So what is to be done. It is quite probable that the hard-line republican
    element will resist a ceasefire, using instead Sinn Fein's election results
    as a wedge to open the doors to the peace table; the success of which
    would be a massive properganderal victory for their cause.
    
    But lets be realistic, does anyone who really wants peace, believe that
    the Unionists would accept such a scenario - even if the governments of
    Great Britain and Republic of Ireland were too ?
    
    I think that it would be more in the interests of the IRA to call a
    ceasefire now, thus proving that they are indeed commited to peace and
    that they also have a fairly substantial ammount of support for their
    ideals. They would be foolish to allow such a recognition to be lost an
    drowned in the traditional rhetoric and quagmire we have become used
    to.
    
    Shaun.   

    AP 4-Jun-1996 21:24 EDT   REF5966

    Copyright 1996. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

    British, Irish Debate US Role

    LONDON (AP) -- British and Irish officials discussed a U.S. role in
    Northern Ireland peace negotiations, but refused to say early Wednesday
    whether former U.S. Sen. George Mitchell would open the talks. 

    Sir Patrick Mayhew, Britain's minister responsible for Northern
    Ireland, concluded a meeting with Irish Foreign Minister Dick Spring
    early Wednesday morning, saying they expected a decision soon. 

    "I feel confident that we have made the steps that we needed to do," he
    said. 

    The Irish Republican Army has been waging a decades-long fight to drive
    the British out of Northern Ireland. 

    The peace talks aim to strike a compromise between a Protestant
    majority determined to preserve Northern Ireland's union with Britain
    and Roman Catholics resolved to unify the province with the rest of
    Ireland. 

    The two governments have sparred behind closed doors for weeks about
    the format of the talks and the role Mitchell, who led a commission
    earlier this year into resolving a negotiations deadlock, will play. 

    Ireland thinks Mitchell's central involvement would encourage the Sinn
    Fein, the political arm of the IRA, to call a new cease-fire and enter
    the negotiations. 

    Late Monday, the IRA said the prospect of a new truce was "extremely
    remote." 

    As things stand, Britain and Ireland intend to bar Sinn Fein because
    the IRA broke its 17-month cease-fire on Feb. 9 with a massive truck
    bomb in London's Docklands that killed two. 

    Mitchell's January report, commissioned by both governments, said all
    parties should renounce violence at the start of negotiations and
    opposing paramilitary groups should begin disarming during the talks. 

    That recommendation flew in the face of the long held British demand
    that the IRA destroy or discard some weaponry in advance of multiparty
    negotiations. 

    And Protestant leaders branded the former Senate majority leader as
    biased. 

    "I object to any emissary of the United States government having any
    chairmanships whatsoever in what is an internal affair," the Rev. Ian
    Paisley, leader of the hard-line Democratic Unionist Party, said after
    meeting Prime Minister John Major earlier Tuesday. 

    NORTHERN IRELAND

    News that the IRA will never hand over any of its weapons until a final
    settlement has been reached to the Northern Irish question has dented
    the prospects for forthcoming all-party talks. Meanwhile, preparations
    by the British and Irish governments for the June 10 talks have also
    suffered a setback, with each side accusing the other of reneging on
    assurances given regarding an agenda for the negotiations.

    All papers, London. 6th June 1996

Which just goes to show that the IRA doesn't want peace.

Simon

    RTw  06/05 1926  Britain, Ireland edge closer on peace talks

    By Paul Majendie

    LONDON, June 5 (Reuter) - Britain and Ireland are close to agreeing a
    formula for all-party talks on Northern Ireland -- but the IRA has
    dashed hopes for peace.

    The guerrilla group, which has battled for 25 years to oust Britain
    from the province, has refused to hand over any of its weapons and
    warned that the chance of a new ceasefire was extremely remote.

    Casting the shadow of the gunman once more over the elusive peace
    process, the Irish Republican Army issued a hardline statement as
    London and Dublin battled to end the political deadlock in the run-up
    to next Monday's all-party talks.

    British officials said Prime Minister John Major and his Irish
    counterpart John Bruton had a 20-minute phone conversation on Wednesday
    evening that was "good, positive, warm and friendly."

    Officials on both sides of the Irish Sea stressed that the two were now
    close to agreement on a format for the talks "with just a few loose
    ends to tie up."

    Sinn Fein, the IRA's political wing, has been excluded from next week's
    talks until the guerrilla group resumes the ceasefire that was
    shattered in February with a string of bomb attacks across London.

    But the IRA has refused to budge an inch in the leadup to the all-party
    talks that officials hope will bring a long-awaited breakthrough after
    months of disappointment.

    "The likelihood of any IRA ceasefire is remote in the extreme," a
    senior IRA source told the BBC in Belfast.

    "The IRA will not be decommissioning its weapons through either the
    front or the back doors," the source warned.

    Leading Protestant Unionist politician Ken Maginnis, who wants to
    maintain links with Britain, said of the IRA's uncompromising
    statement: "What the IRA is doing is using their weapons to threaten
    society."

    London and Dublin had hoped to reach an agreement on procedures,
    including the involvement of former U.S. Senator George Mitchell, that
    would have persuaded the IRA to call another truce and get Sinn Fein to
    the negotiating table.

    Mitchell, adviser to U.S. President Bill Clinton, headed a three-man
    international commission that advised the Irish and British governments
    on the thorny issue of how to disarm rival guerrilla groups on both
    sides of the sectarian divide.

    But fiery Protestant preacher-politician Ian Paisley, a passionate
    supporter of continued ties with Britain, has condemned Mitchell as "a
    crony" of Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams.

    REUTER

    When the ceasefire was first called, everyone felt relieved. The
    public felt that the IRA had made an extraordinary effort for peace,
    they were hopefull that this effort would be maintained throughout the
    slow process of negociations.
    
    When the IRA abandoned their ceasefire, the public felt that it was a
    cynical act indeed, especially as the decision to resume a violent
    terrorist campaigne in England, against english civilians, was taken
    before the Mitchel report had even started.
    
    Yet still the British and Irish governments made ways through the
    quagmire of NI politics for Sinn Fein, the political side of the IRA,
    to sit at the peace table. The public were becoming less tolerant.
    
    Now the IRA has spat back into the faces of those that have moved
    mountains in order to find peace, it has spat back into the faces of
    the public which it taunted with peace only seven months ago, it has
    spat back in the faces of American and European dignatorys that have
    made such an effort to listen to their frustrations, it has spat back
    into the very face of peace.....and the public are getting angry.
    
    The IRA are 'taking the piss'!!!
    
    Shaun.

    I don't actually see what the I.R.A. are trying to prove.
    
    THey are making themselves look more and more ridiculous every passing
    day.
    
    
    CHARLEY

    I agree with you CHARLEY.
    
    John

    On the subject of guessing what will happen at the peace talks, what
    the IRA will do etc.
    
    The best guide we have to this is Sunningdale and the aftermath. At
    that time (1974? I am writing this from memory) Ted Heath managed to
    get Hume, Fitt, and Faulkner to agree to powersharing in a NI Assembly.
    A council of Ireland was being discussed and Dublin were to have more
    of a "say" in things. I remember Brian Faulkner sang Galway Bay (the
    Bing Crosby version) to Gerry Fitt on a bus going to Stormount.
    Then out of the blue there was a general election in the UKOGBANI,
    Harold Wilson scraped in against Heath, there was a loyalist strike
    which enjoyed remarkable support from organs of the State, Paisley
    moved loyalists in significant numbers on the streets and the power
    sharing executive collapsed. Brian Faulkner fell of his horse and broke
    his neck, the same death as King Billy, and things drifted along until
    Mrs T arrived on the scene and went over to a not-an-inch policy which
    ended in tears and scotch whisky when she was dumped by the tories.
    John Hume remembers Sunningdale very well, he is one of the few
    survivors of that round, indeed I can't think of any other major figure
    who were around then apart from him and John Taylor who is there still. 
    At the time the Sunningdale Agreement was a big surprise. The whole
    thing split the Unionists, Faulkner was hated in his own party and
    there were constant attempts to heave him. The funny thing is Faulkner
    had himself wormed his way to the Unionist leadership by playing
    hardline to the right of O'Neil, a former leader. So one thing I expect
    is a split in the Unionist camp again, between those who want to do a
    deal and those who don't. The deciding factor is whether Paisley can
    mobilise sufficient sectarian militancy or not. I don't think so, not
    least because the British Establishment has had enough of NI and Mrs
    T's policies. He will be faced down. But then who knows. The joker is
    the next election in the UKOGBANI. Looking back, one funny thing was
    that Ted Heath wanted to stay in power by forming a coalition with
    Jeremy Thorpe's Liberals. We now know that Thorpe was open to blackmail
    and withdrew from Government inexplicably. There have been some hints
    that MI5 were involved in blackmailing him because of his sexual
    affairs. At that time 'homosexuality' was even more taboo than today. 
    So we might have been spared Lady Macbeth's disaster and 15 years of
    horror.
    
    There will be lots more twists and turns. I'll come back to the IRA
    question later.
    
    Kevin
           

    Guessing what the IRA will do is difficult. I would expect them to
    split too, they have done often enough in the past. The lines of the
    split are already defined, with Rory O'Brady's Republican Sinn Fein
    taking the hard line, opposed to the ceasefire and calling for complete
    British withdrawal from NI and all Brit interference. 
    There are a number of complicating factors though. Gerry Adams is a
    very learned student of Republican history and is fully aware of what a
    split will mean and the pressures which cause it. So he will not lean
    on the hard-liners to get a ceasefire and a deal which does not fulfil
    the sacred aim of a 32 county Republic as per the 1916 declaration. On
    the other hand he understands the hopelessness of the position of the
    prisoners, and the futility of sending the likes of Ed O'brien onto a
    London bus. He sees himself as a vitim of political circumstances and
    takes a fatalistic view of how things will develop. So he likes
    hobnobbing in Washington and reaping the political benefits, but he
    shrugs his sholders and puts on his injured "how can you do this to such
    a decent ordinary democrat who is only trying to represent the 111000
    people who elected me ?" number when he gets the shove. So Adams is not
    going to put all his chips down on a ceasefire and a deal. His main
    concern is not to split the movement, and if a few beatings and
    killings happen on the way, well it is hard isn't it, but we have been
    through hard times and we know how to suffer.
    
    What about the hardliners within the PIRA ? I suspect there are two
    lines of thought. One says enough is enough. Give Gerry a chance and we
    will see what comes out of it. No decommissioning. No ceasefire at
    London's bidding, but no more bombs. Let the talks muddle on, and we
    shall see. The other line goes for the Algeria model, which is the
    nearest modern parallel to NI. Never mind of course, the state of
    Algeria today, the point is the French Empire eventually packed its
    bags, although at first de Gaulle took a really hard line in spite of
    the most ruthless terror. So what we need boys, is one last heave. A
    few more Canary Wharf's and we will really sicken them. We have a few
    more heroes lined up, we know how to do it, let us bide our time and
    then go at it when the moment is right. Which of these lines wins is
    very much a matter of emotion. If for some reason the central council
    feel that the Brits are double dealing, then we shall have another
    Hammersmith Bridge job. If there is some sign of movement, then it is
    called off. As Dick Spring said, you can't go into peace negotiations
    with a 1000 lb bomb parked in a lorry outside, but that is where they
    are at right now. 
    
    In that scenario the two governments will negotiate a settlement which
    will do a lot to satisfy nationalists and then organise the mother of
    all crackdowns on the IRA. It may take around another 7 years and there
    will be plenty of horror on the way. The result will leave a nasty
    taste and noone will be really happy with it. By nature I am an
    optimist, and I believe that the nutcase wing of the IRA can be
    defeated, but it is a political task and at present there are only
    small signs of class politics emerging to cross the sectarian divide.
    That can change though.   
    
    Kevin

Philip Stephens: Ireland's two faces

Financial Times
Friday June 7 1996

                              Two images of Ireland have impinged on our
                              consciousness these past few days. President
                              Mary Robinson has shown us the relaxed,
                              self-confident, face of the modern Irish
                              Republic. In Gerry Adams, the Sinn F�in
                              president, we have seen once again the mean,
                              pinched features of Irish republicanism. It is
                   tempting to pass over the pomp and ceremony
                   accompanying the first official visit to Britain of an Irish 
		   head of state. These are dark times. The IRA has refused a
                   restoration of the ceasefire which not so long ago raised
                   hopes of permanent peace in Northern Ireland. The talks so
                   carefully designed to cement republicanism's conversion to
                   constitutional politics will start in Belfast next week 
		   without Sinn F�in.

                   Taking lunch with John Major in 10 Downing Street and with
                   the Queen in Buckingham Palace, Mrs Robinson has
                   eschewed comment on such matters. Like the British
                   monarch, she is constitutionally obliged to stand back from
                   the everyday trials of government. But we should not allow
                   the significance of Mrs Robinson to be lost in the symbolism
                   of her visit.

                   The IRA cannot be defeated by military might. It has
                   bombed and murdered for the last quarter of a century. In
                   narrow, military, terms it is as strong as ever. The
                   contortions and compromises made by Mr Major's
                   government during the past two years have recognised that
                   reality. But nor can the IRA win. Its commanders still talk
		   of defeating the British state. But Mr Adams's chums cannot
                   overcome the unionist majority in Northern Ireland.

                   Mrs Robinson reminds us there are still more powerful
                   forces at work, that time stands against the IRA. The
                   President of the Republic represents a future which will see
                   violent republicanism stranded by the tides of history. It 
		   will not happen quickly, but it has already started.

                   The 52-year-old former law professor is the most popular
                   head of state Ireland has ever had. At 90 per cent plus, her
                   approval ratings are consistently higher than those of the
                   British monarch. She is also a different type of president.
                   Hitherto, Aras an Uachtar�in, the presidential residence in
                   Dublin's Phoenix Park, has been a retirement home after a
                   successful political career. During her six years, Mrs
                   Robinson has re-invented her office, using it to articulate
                   and promote Ireland's new self-image.

                   A liberal, left-leaning feminist, her own background is
                   integral to the process. She was brought up in the boglands
                   of County Mayo. It is beautiful country, as rural as any in
                   Ireland. It is also a bastion of Catholic traditionalism. Yet
                   Mrs Robinson married a protestant. And, when she decided
                   to enter politics, she chose the country's small Labour party
                   over its two mainstream rivals.

                   There have been important breaks with convention in her
                   approach to Anglo-Irish relations. Her predecessors rarely
                   set foot in Britain. Though this was her first official 
		   visit to London, Mrs Robinson has made a point of making 
		   friends and building contacts during past, private, trips. 
		   Save for the
                   timidity of the Whitehall establishment, she might have
                   broken another taboo this week by addressing both houses
                   of parliament. She has played host to several members of
                   the royal family, and is eager for the Queen to become the
                   first British monarch to visit Dublin since George V in 1913.

                   There is more to this than symbolism. Reconciliation with
                   the past oppressor is part of a sense of Irishness which no
                   longer relies on Britain. Unlike the English, the Irish have
                   become enthusiastic Europeans. A successful economy
                   and a cultural renaissance have reawakened national
                   self-confidence. The Irish diaspora, numbering some 70m
                   worldwide, is viewed now as a symbol of strength rather
                   than of weakness. Thus Irishness is defined not by some
                   arbitrary territorial boundary but by its culture and its 
		   values.

                   This is a concept of nationhood entirely alien to Mr Adams.
                   As Mrs Robinson remarked this week, it recognises the
                   right of unionists in the north to consider themselves 
		   British rather than Irish. It is tolerant and inclusive 
		   where Sinn F�in is mean and sectarian. It is Ireland's 
		   future rather than its past.

                   Watching his response to the latest agreement between the
                   London and Dublin governments, it is clear that the Sinn
                   F�in president understands none of this. Among his military
                   bosses in the IRA, he no doubt stands out as rather a
                   progressive figure. Mr Adams, of course, now claims that
                   his organisation is distinct from the IRA. That is palpable
                   nonsense. The two organisations are indivisible. He
                   trumpets the fact that Sinn F�in secured 15 per cent of the
                   votes for the Northern Ireland forum which provides the
                   basis for next week's talks. He demands a seat at the table
                   on the basis of that "mandate". No matter that his party's
                   candidates included several of the IRA's military 
		   strategists. Sinn F�in knew the rules before the elections 
		   were held. Dublin is as insistent as London that it cannot 
		   bring its Armalites to the negotiations.

                   For all that, I am not among those who believe that the two
                   governments should abandon all hope even before the talks
                   start. In spite of its defiance in recent days, there 
		   appears to
                   be a curious standoff within the IRA. Mr Adams cannot
                   secure a ceasefire. And there are whispers in the
                   intelligence services of plans for another bombing
                   "spectacular" in London. But the IRA is divided, and seems
                   reluctant to relaunch full-scale hostilities. Perhaps, just
                   perhaps, it has decided to wait and see.

                   In such circumstances, talks without Sinn F�in are better
                   than paralysis. The ground rules now set out by the two
                   governments are full of the obfuscation which has always
                   been demanded by the tribal politics of Northern Ireland. But
                   they represent a workable compromise. And George
                   Mitchell, the former US senator, is a good choice as an
                   independent arbiter.

                   No doubt the unionist parties will claim that further
                   concessions have been offered to Mr Adams. But they too
                   have missed the changes in the Republic. The principle that
                   Northern Ireland's constitutional position can be altered 
		   only
                   on the basis of consent is now as entrenched in Irish as in
                   British thinking. And were the IRA to put aside its weapons,
                   Sinn F�in would enter the negotiations on a level playing
                   field. The linguistic contortions in Anglo-Irish statements
                   have always been inelegant but, if they save some lives,
                   there can be no harm in that.

                   A few years ago, before the IRA ceasefire, Mrs Robinson
                   took a political risk and shook hands with Mr Adams. She
                   was much criticised at the time. I suspect she would repeat
                   the gesture now if she thought it would advance the cause of
                   peace. The president can afford to be generous. The future
                   lies in her vision of Ireland. Mr Adams has too long been
                   fighting yesterday's war with the British to understand that
                   simple truth.

    What a brilliant article! The general thinking certainly is along the
    same lines of most of my Irish friends....if only those embitted by
    sectarianism could like so open their eyes.
    
    Last night on Spotlight, a NI news program, the BBC named 6 of the most
    influential people at the heart of the IRA - the IRA think tank - some
    of which have been elected to the peace forum. Amongst others, noth Gerry
    Kelly and Martin McGuiness names were mentioned. I'm trying to get the
    complete list but the web is playing up.
    
    It is quite apparent to all but the stupid that Sinn Fein and the IRA
    are very close blood brothers.
    
    Shaun.

    RTw  06/06 1642  Mitchell turns his skills again to N.Ireland

    LONDON, June 6 (Reuter) - Former U.S. senator George Mitchell, given
    the task of mediating in Northern Ireland for a second time, brings to
    the role finely honed political instincts and the analytical skills of
    a former federal judge.

    Britain and Ireland announced on Thursday that Mitchell would chair
    tricky all-party peace talks beginning on Monday on the future of the
    British-ruled province.

    He was first brought in last year to try to break a deadlock over the
    "decommissioning" of weapons used in a 25-year war between pro-Irish
    nationalist guerrillas and pro-British loyalist gunmen.

    Mitchell, a Democrat who became his party's leader in the U.S. Senate
    in 1988, is the epitome of an American success story.

    He was born in Waterville, Maine, on August 20, 1933, the fourth son of
    a janitor of Irish descent and his Lebanese immigrant wife.

    A man who put principle before ambition, he was once thought a likely
    candidate for the U.S. Supreme Court, but declined the job because it
    would have interfered with a political quest close to his heart --
    reform of the American health system.

    For all Mitchell's skills, the news that he was to chair the Northern
    Ireland talks drew a hostile reaction from pro-British Protestant
    leaders in the province.

    Ian Paisley, the fiery leader of the Democratic Unionist Party which
    has three seats in the British parliament, called the appointment
    "outrageous."

    The Protestants believe that Washington is sympathetic to Sinn Fein,
    the political wing of the Irish Republican Army, and its desire to
    unite the province with the Irish republic. Furthermore, they note that
    Mitchell is a Catholic.

    Mitchell is said to have a calm nature, great determination and to be
    highly methodical. He worked as an insurance adjuster while studying at
    college and then law school.

    He progressed from military service into state politics before becoming
    a federal judge and he was appointed to the Senate in 1980 when Senator
    Edmund Muskie resigned to run for president.

    Only eight years later, the Democrats chose him as their majority
    leader, a post that demands long hours and an ability to steer
    legislation through arcane Senate rules and around the egos of 99
    independent-minded colleagues.

    During much of his leadership Mitchell battled Republican President
    George Bush on issues such as China policy, taxes and the Gulf War.
    Though he may not always have won, he invariably showed himself a tough
    advocate and political fighter.

    He skilfully shepherded through the Senate a major clean air bill and
    many other measures relating to health and other human services.

    His report on decommissioning published in January was a compromise
    that allowed for a handover of weapons while talks were underway. At
    the same time, it pledged the parties to the talks to non-violence.

    In private, Mitchell's manner is judicious and courteous. He often
    frustrated Senate reporters with his skill at fending off questions.
    But his dignified, calm demeanor could be cast aside when he addressed
    the Senate on issues close to his heart.

    Once tipped as a possible new baseball commissioner -- he is an avid
    fan of the Boston Red Sox -- he instead joined a Washington law firm
    after completing his Senate term last January. He also married for a
    second time.

    REUTER

    RE: .14
    
    Excellent article, and it mirrors the mood and talking I get from
    family and friends in the Republic.
    
    The Irish Government thinks the IRA should call a ceasefire; the US
    Government thinks the IRA should call a ceasefire, and the British
    Government thinks that the IRA should call a ceasefire. IRA
    sympathisers, Sinn Fein, and the IRA don't. Which is correct?
    
    Laurie.

>    The Protestants believe that Washington is sympathetic to Sinn Fein,
>    the political wing of the Irish Republican Army, and its desire to
>    unite the province with the Irish republic. Furthermore, they note that
>    Mitchell is a Catholic.

I don't think "Washington" is at all sympathetic to Sinn Fein. However
they probably do relate this to their own struggle for independence. So
it looks like it from some perspectives.


> Mitchell is a Catholic

Isn't John Major as well?

M

    .14.
    
    Superb article, again like Shaun it mirrors the thoughts of all of my
    Irish friends. It is time to leave the hatred behind.
    
    
    CHARLEY

    the latest news is that the UUP has accepted Mitchell as chairman and
    Paisley is accusing David Trimble of treason and stabbing loyalism in
    the back and other such helpful language. One BBC commentator suggested
    last night that if the unionists accept Mitchell then the IRA would
    announce a new ceasefire....
    
    Ray....

    Are they still arguing over what type of mineral water to have at the
    table?
    
    
    CHARLEY

    A colleague here remarked that it would probably not be sensible
    for any  party at the talks to admit to having ever enjoyed a pint
    of Guinness.
    
    Add to that, the wearing of any green items of clothing, sympathy with
    any Green political issues, use of the words, "republican" or "Republic" 
    in the name of any association to which they have belonged, any penchant 
    for mowing the lawn, or affection for one of Tom Jones' better known hits, 
    "The Green Green Grass of Home".
    
    In other words, this round is doomed to the same fate as any other in
    my living memory.. 
    
    Anybody taking wagers?
    
    John 

    
    ..pretty sad ok...can you imagine what its going to be like if they
    ever get to deciding what will be on the agenda for actual discussions.
    
    This isn't going to work..Already you have parties making plays for ways
    to get out of the talks...we are only 3 weeks from marching season
    time..show time for the headers........an Imposed solution looks
    a possibility....
    
    
    

    UK News Electronic Telegraph Wednesday June 12 1996
    
    
    Negotiations grind to a halt over Mitchell 
    
    
    Bruton toughens line on Sinn Fein
    Mechanic is charged over Docklands blast
    
    
    
    ALL-PARTY talks on the future of Northern Ireland edged closer to a
    crisis last night as Unionist protests against the appointment of
    George Mitchell as chairman caused the negotiations to grind to a halt
    amid acrimony for a second day.
    
    The nine parties managed just 10 minutes around the table before they
    adjourned for bi-lateral meetings. Mr Mitchell, a former US senator,
    remained in an ante-room for more than nine hours. 
    
    As the arguments continued in Belfast, Downing Street stressed that Mr
    Major remained committed to supporting Mr Mitchell. "These are very
    early days and there will be bumpy passages through the negotiations,"
    said one source. "The important thing is to carry on talking and get
    through them."
    
    Later, Mr Major attempted to calm Unionist anger by appearing to harden
    slightly the terms on which Sinn Fein might be admitted to the talks.
    Speaking at Prime Minister's Question Time, he said an "unconditional
    ceasefire" by the IRA was needed to allow Sinn Fein entry to the
    negotiations. Previously the Government has called only for a
    restoration of the 17-month ceasefire.
    
    At the talks, Irish officials applied concerted pressure on the
    Unionists to accept Mr Mitchell as chairman. But Ian Paisley, leader of
    the hard-line Democratic Unionist Party, retaliated by saying: "A
    minister for the Irish Republic approached one of the delegates and
    conveyed to him that the Unionists would have to accept George Mitchell
    or there would be bodies in the street." He added that he had made a
    protest to Sir Patrick Mayhew, the Northern Ireland Secretary. "The
    long hand of the IRA and its bloody shadow is not going to rest on
    these talks," he said.
    
    After the opening speeches, the two governments were determined to move
    forward into substantial negotiations and proposed the former American
    senator be allowed to take the chair while a sub-committee discussed
    his role. But the three main Unionist leaders - David Trimble, Ian
    Paisley and Robert McCartney - objected to this, arguing that the
    chairman's terms of reference and details of the agenda should be
    settled before anybody was appointed.
    
    A "compromise" plan put forward by the Ulster Unionists was rejected by
    the Irish government and the nationalist Social and Democratic Labour
    Party
    
    The powers given to the chairman by the two governments and Mr
    Mitchell's appointment have the support of the six other parties in the
    talks. Government sources said much rested on Mr Trimble, who said he
    has reserved his position on Mr Mitchell until the former senator's
    powers had been defined. One source said: "If [Mr Trimble] takes the
    same hard line as Mr Paisley the outlook is very bleak."
    
    Sinn Fein delegates again attempted to gain entry to the talks but
    confined their protest to a brief play by a street theatre group
    outside the gates of Stormont and in front of the cameras.
    
    Unionist opposition to Mr Mitchell centres on his background and the
    wide-ranging powers given to him by the two governments. One Unionist
    delegate said: "He's an Irish-American with republican sympathies who
    is determined to push through his own ideas. "There is no way he can be
    impartial. He signed a letter backing a visa for Gerry Adams in
    February 1994 even before there was a ceasefire. Dublin and London is
    using him as a carrot to get Sinn Fein/IRA into the talks."
    
    Mr Mitchell is said to have come close to losing his temper during one
    of his bi-lateral meetings with Unionists. A "compromise" plan put
    forward by the Ulster Unionists was rejected by the Irish government
    and the nationalist Social and Democratic Labour Party. "The plan would
    have completely emasculated the chairman's role," said an Irish
    government source.
    
    Dick Spring, the Irish foreign minister, had been due to fly to America
    at 11am but cancelled his flight and remained at the talks. Mr Trimble
    said: "We put forward proposals that we thought would break the
    deadlock. The delay is unnecessary. We still have significant hope
    those proposals will be accepted."
    
    Gary McMichael, leader of the Ulster Democratic Party, said he was
    "very disappointed" by Mr Paisley's attempts to "sabotage" the talks
    and criticised Mr Trimble for supporting him. Joe Hendron, of the SDLP,
    said: "We are sticking to the ground rules and agenda drawn up by the
    two governments and are not deviating from that at all."
    

    I have to take (editorial) issue with many of the UK's newspapers
    here who have persisted in referring to the talks as "all-party".
    
    They are not.
    
    So far, they can be described accurately, and only as "multi-party"
    talks.
    
    John

    Personaly I think Paisly deserves to be shot and Trimble needs a good
    knock on the head. 
    
    Shaun,

    
    shaun...
    
    ..Now now...Can't be shooting anybody any more -) -) -).....
    
    I would say nobody takes paisley serious..except for the fact that he
    got such a large vote..Same with Trimble...Somebody mentioned on radio
    recently that decommisioning mindsets was a bigger priority than
    physical weapons in this whole process..had a point..
    
    Mick 
      

    I just get so annoyed with the unintelligent squabbling from both sides
    of the divide. On one have we have Sinn Fein saying "No, we're not the
    IRA really and we are totaly commited to peace...." and on the other we
    have the Right Wing Unionists saying "trachery, treason and toilets...
    we're british but we don't know why, probably cos we just don't want to
    be part of Eire"
    
    I'm sick to the death of both of them...can't we just chuck'em both in
    a mental home and let John Hume sort everything out!
    
    I've really had enough of NI. The brits don't want it...we just want
    out - i'm getting to the point where i'll be happy to pull out and let
    the whole place descend into a sectarian blood bath...that'll sort it
    out once and for all.
    
    Yet any democratic being can't allow that to happen so we stay and we
    get abused......what a crappy situation.
    
    Shaun.

Well I'm a bit more optimistic than that.

As of this morning, Mitchell was accepted as the chair, thanks to Trimble.
Paisley will refuse to be in the same room as Mitchell - BUT he will not
walk out of the talks. 

There already is an agenda, Patrick Mayhew has faxed one to everybody (according
to Trimble).

On the agenda is the Sovereignty or Ireland. Trimble and Paisley know this
and have not walked out.

SF think the British Govt. have no right to dictate things at this meeting
and both UUP and DUP firmly agree with them.

So far, these talks seem to have potential.

M

    AP 12-Jun-1996 21:25 EDT   REF6067

    Copyright 1996. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

    NIreland Resumes Peace Talks

    By SHAWN POGATCHNIK

    BELFAST, Northern Ireland (AP) -- Bad blood and belligerence have
    marked the first three days of peace talks in Northern Ireland --  and
    supporters of the IRA haven't even been admitted to the negotiations. 

    The British and Irish governments Wednesday won their fight to keep the
    talks alive with U.S. envoy George Mitchell at the helm.  But the stage
    was set for more battles after Protestant hard-liners walked out,
    before finally returning. 

    "That was just the first round," warned a red-eyed David Trimble,
    leader of the largest Protestant party, the Ulster Unionists. 

    Sinn Fein, the second-largest party on the Catholic side, is barred
    from negotiations until the Irish Republican Army calls a cease-fire. A
    previous truce ended Feb. 9 with a truck bomb that killed two men in
    London. 

    Negotiations are scheduled to continue Monday. 

    Trimble's party, which is committed to preserving Northern Ireland's
    union with Britain, approved a midnight compromise accepting Mitchell
    as chairman. Protestants have accused the Clinton administration of
    being too sympathetic to the IRA and its goal of a united Ireland. 

    The talks are aimed at finding a way to govern Northern Ireland that is
    acceptable to the province's pro-British Protestant majority and its
    Irish Catholic minority -- and end violence that has killed 3,200
    people since 1969. 

    So far, however, the fiercest arguments have been within the Protestant
    camp. 

    The Rev. Ian Paisley and other hard-line Protestant politicians
    condemned Trimble for returning to the talks. 

    "You have lied to the people of Ulster, but the people have not been
    fooled," said a member of Paisley's party, the Rev. William McCrea,
    interrupting Trimble in a TV interview. 

    Trimble, a quick-tempered lawyer, momentarily grabbed McCrea by the
    shoulders, then let go. The two traded barbs all the way to the door. 

    Many Protestants fear that U.S. involvement will mean pressure to grant
    concessions to the IRA-Sinn Fein movement, which wants to end British
    rule and unite Northern Ireland with the predominantly Catholic
    Republic of Ireland. 

    Both Ireland and Britain want Sinn Fein involved and hope that having
    Mitchell in charge will send an encouraging signal to IRA supporters
    that the talks will be serious. 

    At 1 a.m., after Paisley and another Protestant party denounced
    Mitchell as a "dictator" and walked out, Mitchell instructed the seven
    remaining party leaders to pledge themselves to six principles,
    including a commitment to democracy and disarmament. 

    Paisley returned 10 hours later and said he would not participate in
    sessions chaired by Mitchell, but then appeared in the negotiating room
    in front of the former senator from Maine. 

    Paisley's son, Ian Paisley Jr., described the exchange in the following
    way: 

    "My father refused to recognize the chair (Mitchell), then he read a
    prepared statement outlining seven of our own party principles. Then he
    threw it on the table and left the room treating the whole illegal
    gathering with contempt," Paisley Jr. said. 

    Other negotiators told a different story: that of a contrite Paisley
    referring to Mitchell as "sir." 

    Another party that walked out early Wednesday, Robert McCartney's
    United Kingdom Unionist Party, also came back to endorse the
    principles. But McCartney said the Ulster Unionists' tactics "made me
    want to weep." 

    Mitchell shrugged off the initial feuding. 

    "The way is now open for a week of intensive -- and, I hope, 
    constructive -- work," he said. 

	Saturday's bombing in Manchester was a disgraceful act and I feel
	very sorry for the victims.

	I understand the feelings of the people who say that Sinn Fein 
	should not be allowed into the peace talks but what are the options?
	It is not the people around the peace table who are doing the 
	bombing so how can the bombing be stopped unless you talk to the 
	people who are doing it?

	I cannot see how a peace deal can be worked out without talking to
	those people who are disrupting the peace.
    

    
    
    
    Whilst last time I was in this file I would have tended to have agreed
    with you, my opinion - like many other peoples is hardening very
    quickly. I do not agree with peace at any price and no-one would believe a
    declared cease fire by the IRA now anyway. The sad thing is that these
    terrorists believe themselves to be speaking for Ireland - they are
    deluded. The vast majority of irish citizens condemn their actions.
    unfortunately the attacks on the mainland will lead to discrimination
    against irish people - though we're intelligent enough to know that
    most irish people are thankfully decent peaceable people its
    understandable that stangers in our community with irish accents will
    be looked upon with great suspicion  - i find that incredibly sad. Isnt
    it time the IRA realised that they are only succeeding in turning many
    more people against them and their cause with their actions. 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Shelley 

    RTw  07/24 1927  N.Irish parties inch towards full peace talks

    By Martin Cowley

    BELFAST, July 25 (Reuter) - Northern Ireland's Protestant and Catholic
    politicians edged closer to long-awaited full-scale peace negotiations
    on Thursday after a compromise formula eased a deadlock in six week
    multi-party talks.

    "It's steady progress, important progress...," Michael Ancram, a junior
    Northern Ireland Office minister, told reporters after the talks'
    chairman, former U.S. senator George Mitchell, won support for measures
    to end procedural wrangling by pro-British Protestants.

    "We now have a set of rules of procedure which I hope will be agreed
    (in plenary talks) on Monday, but we haven't yet addressed the question
    of the opening agenda...We need to do that urgently," Ancram told
    reporters.

    But hardline Protestant leader Ian Paisley resisted the package which
    political sources said had been backed by a majority of participants
    around the talks table.

    Signalling further stormy days ahead for the talks process, Democratic
    Unionist Party leader Paisley was steadfastly against any attempt to
    put the future of British rule in the province on the agenda for full
    talks.

    "We are not in the business of negotiating the Union (of Northern
    Ireland and Britain)," Paisley said defiantly.

    Paisley said no decision could be taken on Mitchell's compromise plans
    until Monday's plenary but he accepted they would be ratified and said
    he would oppose key sections.

    "We will be voting against the (appointment of) the chairman and his
    two colleagues (former Finnish prime minister Harri Holkeri and
    Canadian general John de Chaselain)."

    Referring to Mitchell, who is President Bill Clinton's Irish economic
    adviser, Paisley said: "We don't want an envoy of the president of the
    United States presiding over our destiny."

    Mitchell tabled the compromise formula to ensure that the struggling
    talks could move on from rows dogging it since the June 10 start.

    The talks are due to adjourn for a month next week and along with the
    Anglo-Irish sponsors he was anxious that they would get down to serious
    negotiations when they restart in September.

    Irish minister Nora Owen said progress had been made. "I hope the
    message will go out that we are nearing the end of this particular
    procedure (towards) getting the rules...agreed," she told reporters.

    Sources in the main Protestant party, the Ulster Unionists, said their
    attitude to the Mitchell formula would depend on the agenda finalised
    at further talks on Thursday.

    "We will give a final verdict on both on Monday," a UUP source told
    Reuters.

    Dublin and London hope the talks will end decades of political and
    sectarian conflict between the majority Protestants who support rule
    from London and minority Catholics who want an all-Ireland state.

    Protestants opposed the rules saying they suspected Britain and Ireland
    would use the talks to bring their arch-foes, the Irish Republican Army
    to the conference table.

    Sinn Fein, the political wing of the Irish Republican Army, has been
    banned from participating until the IRA reinstates its 1994 ceasefire,
    which was abandoned in February with a bombing campaign in London.

    REUTER