[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference tallis::celt

Title:Celt Notefile
Moderator:TALLIS::DARCY
Created:Wed Feb 19 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1632
Total number of notes:20523

1556.0. "O'Einstein" by TALLIS::DARCY (Alpha Migration Tools) Mon Feb 26 1996 13:13

    Anyone have any more info about that fellow in Dublin
    who supposedly has debunked Einstein's Theory of
    Relativity? Was he going to present his findings
    in Dublin this month?
    
    Geo
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1556.1CBHVAX::CBHOwl-Stretching Time!Mon Feb 26 1996 14:0612
I saw that guy interviewed on telly a week or two ago.  He was saying that the 
theory of relativity is fundamentally flawed, as everything in the universe is 
absolute, rather than relative.  He also stated that in a number of times in 
the past, other people have come up with fairly sound theories that were at 
odds with the Relativity theory, although these scientists apparently didn't 
have the courage to be taken seriously by the scientific community at large.  
He says that these, combined with his own theory, effectively disprove 
Einstein's theory, which could have quite an interesting impact.  
Unfortunately I don't remember when he was due to announce it, but I'd be 
interested to hear his findings.

Chris.
1556.2SYSTEM::BENNETTStep outside and say that..Mon Feb 26 1996 14:385
    Was he a Trinity man, or did he hail from somewhere like 
    Bolton Street? And how much of his research grant did he 
    spend on Guinness and Turf-related matters?
    
    John 
1556.3Myles is your manCHEFS::MCGETTRICKSTue Feb 27 1996 05:483
    I thought Flan O'Brien took care of that in The Third Policeman!
    
    Sean
1556.4MKTCRV::KMANNERINGSTue Feb 27 1996 05:598
    re .2
    
    >    Was he a Trinity man, or did he hail from somewhere like
    >    Bolton Street?
    
    Surely you mean UCD ???
    
    BIFFO
1556.5A pint of Plain..SYSTEM::BENNETTStep outside and say that..Tue Feb 27 1996 07:4117
    UCD? Nope.. I thought Bolton Street was definitely lower
    down in the academic snobbery league than UCD, which is a 
    fine place to go if you want to be a Vet, and go round
    country places shoving your arm up to the hilt in all sorts
    of places.
    
    A noble calling that, but still definitely relative, rather than
    absolute, given the certainty that to be called, one has to be called
    from somewhere.
    
    Now, as for "The Third Policeman", I disagree (absolute) but I will
    admit to inspiration that hails more from the direction of "At Swim
    Two Birds" and Guinness (relative).
    
    Yer only man..                    
    
    John
1556.6A pint of plain, please!NEMAIL::HANLYTue Feb 27 1996 12:4011
    "When you're down on your luck, and your horse is an also ran,
    when all you you have is heap of debt, a pit of plain is yer only man"
    
    At Swiw two Birds, Flann O'Brien (or words to that effect).
    
    I heard the chap on the radio.  His name is Ryan and he is written up
    in the latest version of Liam Ferrie's fine production, the Irish
    Professional.  
    
    Regards,
    Ken Hanly
1556.7Is it in paperback yetWARFUT::CHEETHAMDWed Feb 28 1996 07:045
    re O'Einstein. Has he published his theory yet? I'd give a couple of
    bob to see it. The special and general theories have passed every test
    yet devised for them with flying colours.
    
                              Dennis 
1556.8If you're going to sayNEMAIL::HANLYWed Feb 28 1996 12:2622
    "When money's tight and hard to get,
    and your horse has also ran,
    when all you have is a heap of debt,
    a pint of plain is your only man"
    
    Flann O'Brien from At Swim Two Birds.
    
    I just wanted to get the quote exactly right, just for the records.
    
    I think some of the people ranting and raving in previous topics should
    read At Swim Two Birds, just to keep them busy and to stop winding each
    other up.  It may also amuse them.
    
    P.S.  I don't know when Professor Ryan (I believe that is his name) is
    coming out with his findings.  This story may go the way of a headline
    that appeared 18 years or so ago in The Sunday World (Ireland's first and 
    foremost Sunday tabloid) "Irish Boffins find cure for Common Cold".  The 
    article had little real substance and was mainly about the beneficial 
    value of Vitamin C.  It was quickly forgotten.  This may be the fate of 
    Prof. Ryan's dicovery.
    
    Regards,  Ken Hanly
1556.9Dr. Al KellyXSTACY::JLUNDONhttp://xagony.ilo.dec.com/~jlundon :-)Fri Mar 15 1996 10:4211
His name is Dr. Al Kelly and he seems to be a very respected scientist
who has proven conventional science wrong before (On what I don't 
quite remember).

The "conventional wisdom" on his debunking of relativity is that he is
wrong, because he is basing his results from others' _faulty
experiments_.  I would be really interested in learning more about his
latest theories but was unable to find anything via Altavista when I
searched last week. 

                          James. 
1556.10CBHVAX::CBHMr. CreosoteFri Mar 15 1996 12:5016
>The "conventional wisdom" on his debunking of relativity is that he is
>wrong, because he is basing his results from others' _faulty
>experiments_.  I would be really interested in learning more about his
>latest theories but was unable to find anything via Altavista when I
>searched last week. 

I think I may have mentioned it earlier on, but apparently the reason that the 
other experiments are considered `faulty' is because they went against 
generally accepted theory, and their authors didn't really want to pursue them 
(I think the words used were something along the lines of `too scared'!)  I'll 
be very interested to see the discussion behind the latest theories, if and 
when they're finally published!  The problem is that the scientific community 
are a religious lot in their own way, and anything which doesn't conform to 
accepted theory seems to be branded as heresy!

Chris.
1556.11Nothing to do with April Fool's..METSYS::BENNETTStraight no chaser..Mon Apr 01 1996 11:01219
     In case you've not seen it, more on yer man:

             <<< COSME3::DISK$OA_APP1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ES96.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< ES96: fluff noters' emporium >-
================================================================================
Note 67.13                          The news.                           13 of 18
IJSAPL::ANDERSON "tis the muckspreading time!"      100 lines   1-APR-1996 07:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RTw  03/31 2133  FEATURE - Einstein was wrong, says retired Irish ...

    FEATURE - Einstein was wrong, says retired Irish engineer

    By Andrew Marshall

    DUBLIN, April 1 (Reuter) - Alphonsus Kelly is a 70-year-old retired
    Irish engineer with two passions. He plays golf and likes to disprove
    Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

    Kelly says his discoveries will shake the foundations of modern physics
    and force scientists to revise their view of the universe. In a
    research paper published earlier this year he put forward evidence
    which, he says, proves that Einstein's theories of space, time and the
    behaviour of light are flawed.

    Kelly is an unlikely candidate for the role of scientific iconoclast.
    He has a degree in engineering rather than physics and he spent most of
    his career working for Ireland's electricity board. He says he is
    certainly no genius.

    "I was never the brightest boy in my class at school," he told Reuters
    at his home in Dublin. "But I was always the one who was prepared to
    put up his hand and say -- "this doesn't make sense'. I suppose my
    habit of questioning things helped lead me to my discoveries about
    Einstein."

    Kelly started investigating Einstein as a hobby after he retired, and
    discovered that several experiments seemed to contradict his theory of
    the behaviour of light.

    "It was like a detective story," Kelly said. "I looked at more and more
    key experiments and many of them seemed to suggest that something was
    wrong with Einstein's theory."

    According to Einstein, the speed of light always appears the same to
    any observer, no matter how fast the observer is moving. Space and time
    can flex to ensure that this universal law always holds, so for
    observers moving at close to the speed of light time slows down and
    distances seem to contract.

    But Kelly says several experiments show that the universe simply does
    not behave in this way. Einstein's most famous formula e - mc squared
    still holds true, he says, but the Theory of Relativity is wrong.

    "My theory up-ends the whole of modern astrophysics," Kelly says. "And
    that is rather frightening."

    He has formulated his own theory about light, space and time, which he
    says fits the experimental evidence.

    He says space and time are absolute and do not change for observers
    moving at high speeds. And he says the speed of light generated on
    earth is not independent of the earth's motion, as Einstein claimed.
    Instead, light takes up the orbital speed of the earth although it is
    not affected by the earth's spin.

    "To put it more simply -- light appears to travel faster from Dublin to
    Galway than from Galway to Dublin," Kelly said.

    If Kelly turns out to be correct, it will not be the first time he has
    rewritten physics textbooks. In 1966 he claimed that simple experiments
    showed a siphon could pump water much higher than scientific theory
    predicted. His claim was mocked at first, but later turned out to be
    correct.

    Going from improving the theory of the siphon to challenging the entire
    foundations of modern astrophysics is a rather large step to take. But
    Kelly says the same method led him to both discoveries. He has an
    engineer's approach to science, focusing on practical experiments
    rather than theory, and says this can create insights which theoretical
    physicists miss.

    At a packed lecture in Dublin's Trinity College in February, Kelly
    outlined his new theory and challenged the world's scientific community
    to find fault with his findings. He has met with a sceptical response.

    "Kelly's monographs propose an experimental contradiction to one of the
    cornerstones of modern theoretical physics. If this contradiction were
    true, it would immediately attract the undivided attention of every
    research physicist in this field," said Siddhartha Sen, a professor at
    Trinity College School of Mathematics.

    "Unfortunately Kelly's proposed contradiction just does not exist," Sen
    said. "There is no mystery to excite our attention and research." Other
    scientists have said his experiments are not accurate enough to be
    taken seriously.

    But Kelly says nobody has yet challenged the full weight of his
    evidence, with most scientists simply content to scoff. "One of the
    main experiments I quoted was accurate to one in
    100,000,000,000,000,000,000. That should be accurate enough for most
    people," he said.

    He is confident his ideas will gain acceptance. "Sooner or later
    somebody's going to come off the fence and back me. If a professor of
    physics somewhere comes out and supports me then people will start to
    take notice."

    REUTER



             <<< COSME3::DISK$OA_APP1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ES96.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< ES96: fluff noters' emporium >-
================================================================================
Note 67.13                          The news.                           13 of 18
IJSAPL::ANDERSON "tis the muckspreading time!"      100 lines   1-APR-1996 07:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RTw  03/31 2133  FEATURE - Einstein was wrong, says retired Irish ...

    FEATURE - Einstein was wrong, says retired Irish engineer

    By Andrew Marshall

    DUBLIN, April 1 (Reuter) - Alphonsus Kelly is a 70-year-old retired
    Irish engineer with two passions. He plays golf and likes to disprove
    Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

    Kelly says his discoveries will shake the foundations of modern physics
    and force scientists to revise their view of the universe. In a
    research paper published earlier this year he put forward evidence
    which, he says, proves that Einstein's theories of space, time and the
    behaviour of light are flawed.

    Kelly is an unlikely candidate for the role of scientific iconoclast.
    He has a degree in engineering rather than physics and he spent most of
    his career working for Ireland's electricity board. He says he is
    certainly no genius.

    "I was never the brightest boy in my class at school," he told Reuters
    at his home in Dublin. "But I was always the one who was prepared to
    put up his hand and say -- "this doesn't make sense'. I suppose my
    habit of questioning things helped lead me to my discoveries about
    Einstein."

    Kelly started investigating Einstein as a hobby after he retired, and
    discovered that several experiments seemed to contradict his theory of
    the behaviour of light.

    "It was like a detective story," Kelly said. "I looked at more and more
    key experiments and many of them seemed to suggest that something was
    wrong with Einstein's theory."

    According to Einstein, the speed of light always appears the same to
    any observer, no matter how fast the observer is moving. Space and time
    can flex to ensure that this universal law always holds, so for
    observers moving at close to the speed of light time slows down and
    distances seem to contract.

    But Kelly says several experiments show that the universe simply does
    not behave in this way. Einstein's most famous formula e - mc squared
    still holds true, he says, but the Theory of Relativity is wrong.

    "My theory up-ends the whole of modern astrophysics," Kelly says. "And
    that is rather frightening."

    He has formulated his own theory about light, space and time, which he
    says fits the experimental evidence.

    He says space and time are absolute and do not change for observers
    moving at high speeds. And he says the speed of light generated on
    earth is not independent of the earth's motion, as Einstein claimed.
    Instead, light takes up the orbital speed of the earth although it is
    not affected by the earth's spin.

    "To put it more simply -- light appears to travel faster from Dublin to
    Galway than from Galway to Dublin," Kelly said.

    If Kelly turns out to be correct, it will not be the first time he has
    rewritten physics textbooks. In 1966 he claimed that simple experiments
    showed a siphon could pump water much higher than scientific theory
    predicted. His claim was mocked at first, but later turned out to be
    correct.

    Going from improving the theory of the siphon to challenging the entire
    foundations of modern astrophysics is a rather large step to take. But
    Kelly says the same method led him to both discoveries. He has an
    engineer's approach to science, focusing on practical experiments
    rather than theory, and says this can create insights which theoretical
    physicists miss.

    At a packed lecture in Dublin's Trinity College in February, Kelly
    outlined his new theory and challenged the world's scientific community
    to find fault with his findings. He has met with a sceptical response.

    "Kelly's monographs propose an experimental contradiction to one of the
    cornerstones of modern theoretical physics. If this contradiction were
    true, it would immediately attract the undivided attention of every
    research physicist in this field," said Siddhartha Sen, a professor at
    Trinity College School of Mathematics.

    "Unfortunately Kelly's proposed contradiction just does not exist," Sen
    said. "There is no mystery to excite our attention and research." Other
    scientists have said his experiments are not accurate enough to be
    taken seriously.

    But Kelly says nobody has yet challenged the full weight of his
    evidence, with most scientists simply content to scoff. "One of the
    main experiments I quoted was accurate to one in
    100,000,000,000,000,000,000. That should be accurate enough for most
    people," he said.

    He is confident his ideas will gain acceptance. "Sooner or later
    somebody's going to come off the fence and back me. If a professor of
    physics somewhere comes out and supports me then people will start to
    take notice."

    REUTER

    
1556.12METSYS::THOMPSONMon Apr 01 1996 12:404
Are any of his papers on the web?

M
1556.14www.altavista.digital.comXSTACY::JLUNDONhttp://xagony.ilo.dec.com/~jlundon :-)Tue Apr 30 1996 04:235
> Are any of his papers on the web?

I wasn't able to find any when I searched last month?

                    James.