Conference tallis::celt

    Alright, I have worked out how the mortgage relief works with the Craig
    Gardner/Price Waterhouse spreadsheet in the Irish Times. From the rest
    of the discussion my base note provoked, can I take it that the Irish
    taxpayer is a very passive donkey who doesn't care about how the tax
    system is crucifying the majority for the benefit of a few?
    
    Kevin 

Kev, 

Tell us a little more about the "share options scams". I'd be
interested in setting up my own shell company if it turns out to be a
nice easy scam to operate ;-). 

As for people not caring either way: you are probably right.  The PAYE
people are always going to be screwed; they are always going to be the
easy targets for politicians looking for quick fixes.  What I love
about the current scenario is that Ireland has a National Debt of 30
billion pounds, and absolutely nothing is being done to bring it down.
In fact, if I've got my figures right, we are spending the total PAYE
tax take on just servicing the debt, let alone trying to do anything
about decreasing it.  Is that the fat lady I hear in the background
getting warmed up? 

                      James. 

P.S.  Did you remember to declare your winnings from the roulette
wheel in Monte Carlo yet? 

P.S.S. How to cushion yourself from the budget: put a few quid on
Leeds doing to cup double and maybe make it an accumulator with
Limerick winning back Liam in September... 

    Lets start at the bottom of your note James and work upwards..
    
    Do you remember the green white and orange banner: "Limerick you're a
    lady, but you're not going home with Liam" ? Enough said.
    
    Leeds United?? Well I'm a big fan of Anthony Yeboah, but at Eintracht
    Frankfurt they never quite made it. Remember the day in Rostock when
    the failed to take the German League title. It always stuck me that
    Anthony is great at times, but when the heat comes on he gets nervous
    and it doesn't come off.
    
    If your tips are as bad as your tax advice Leeds will get relegated
    again (and again and again...). Winnings at the table are tax free.
    
    National Debt ... well it is a complicated question. First of all we
    have to pay interest to the rich who own the "debt" - it is their asset
    and it is one way the tax system helps the rich get richer. On the
    other hand if we ran surplus budgets as they did in the thirties
    capitalism will slump again and the fat lady gets to sing on her own,
    so I don't agree with the monetarist response to Keynsianism, which has
    been responsible in part for the long boom.  But as Keynes said, in the
    long run we are all dead. 
    
    What sickens me about the Irish system is that there are decent people
    who cannot afford to go to work or find a job where there is anything
    like a reasonable incentive. Also those of us who go to trouble and
    expense to get work cannot charge our travel and training expenses
    against tax. Also the system has negative incentive patches in it which
    encourage the black economy and discourage useful economic activity.
    
    The macroecnomic consequenses are plain to see. Today Kerry foods
    announce the are spending 69 million on a foreign company while the
    Minister for Agriculture Ivan Yates states he has no money for the
    Control of Farm Pollution scheme, which has been suspended. So we
    invest overseas and starve our own native assets of development
    capital. CRH, Smurfit, also invest massively overseas.
    
    Kevin
    

    Oh I forgot to explain share option scams. It seems their a various
    ways which companys issue directors with shares or the right to buy
    shares which they know ('cos they do the accounts) will increase in
    value. If the directors hold the shares long enough they will be free
    of capital gains tax and anywat they can clain rollover relief on CGT
    if they reinvest say in a few thousand acres in Kildare. 
    
    Even for a big gambler like yourself James, this may be over your
    limit...

    >Also those of us who go to trouble and
    >expense to get work cannot charge our travel and training expenses
    >against tax.
    
    You should try this great scam I've got. I get Digital to *pay*
    me for the work that I do, so working's no expense for me at all!
    It's still trouble, though.
    
    

>    You should try this great scam I've got. I get Digital to *pay*
>    me for the work that I do, so working's no expense for me at all!
>    It's still trouble, though.

there's always the fun and games of having to pay for company business out of 
your own pocket, and trying to claim it back on expenses... trying to get a 
cash advance out of this lot is like getting blood out of a stone.  :(

And then there's the 8p a mile for company mileage.  Er, most generous.

Chris.

    >  You should try this great scam I've got. I get Digital to *pay*
    >    me for the work that I do, so working's no expense for me at all!
    >    It's still trouble, though.
    
    
    Brendan, do they really pay you for coming here? I'm amazed...
    
    Do you really have no work related expenses not covered by your
    employer?  What about travel costs ? Specialist literature to maintain
    your skills, apart from what Digital provides? Training courses outside 
    Digital which would help you
    find work if Digital has to lay people off again ? I think all such
    expenses should be allowable against tax as they increase the skill and
    mobility of the workforce and help people to avoid unemployment. As it
    is at the moment unemployed people have their benefits taxed and are
    better off on social welfare. Any extra expense they incur like
    training and commuting expenses to get a job and become a PAYE
    taxpayer has to be financed out of savings and brings no tax relief. 
    
    Also there is a big advantage being a self employed sole trader  and 
    having a  business to invest in compared with PAYE allowances.
    
    All this is on top of the disasterous design of the social welfare
    system which means some people simply cannot afford to work. Finally
    there is the punitive level of taxation, 48%, which means that it is
    often hardly worth a husband and wife working, so there is pressure on
    women to abandon their careers and look after other family members.
    
    Kevin