Conference tallis::celt

    Thanks for kicking things off, Mick.  By the way, Tommy Heneghan
    (formerly of Clonmel and Galway) asked for you when last I spoke to
    him. 
    
    The Dubs have to be in with a good chance, especially after the
    disapointment of last year (poor game, too, due to the rain).  I seem
    to remember reading that one of the DUBs got in trouble for getting
    drunk, stealing a box of money, or having a fake gun, or something of the
    sort.  Does this ring a bell?  Is he playing this year?
    
    Who is the favourite of the bookies?  the punters?  We all know,
    everyone from the country will be cheering for anyone but Dublin.
    
    Ken Hanly

Mick,

At least us Northern .......... can spell Ireland and know how to use 
upper-case when appropriate :-)

On the football, I think Dublin have by far their best chance to win in 
years. They could have won last year (nothing to do with the weather Ken) but 
seemed to falter towards the end. 

There has been a lot of hype about Jason Sherlock but I have yet to see him 
produce the stuff on the field although I have only seen small portions of 
the games against Meath and Cork. He reminds me of a smaller, weaker, less 
"cute" version of James McCartan. If Peter Canavan was from Dublin I would 
hate to see the hype about him.

My heart says Tyrone but unfortunately my head says Dublin. Tyrone have yet 
to play 70 minutes of the stuff they are capable of. If they do on 17th then 
Dublin won't have a look in. If I were a betting man and could get good odds 
on Tyrone around Dublin I know where I'd put my money.

The ony thing I have against Tyrone is their rallying call of

"Come on Tyrone - you're on your own"

Regards

Dermot

    
    ....yes Dublin are the favourites..not sure what odds you would get. I
    can imagine there will be huge support comming down from Tyrone. They
    were certainly down in force for the Galway game...
    
    Sherlock did the damage against Cork and took his goal exceptionally well 
    and will have to be watched. still I can't but help thinking that a good 
    hard  shoulder would send him spinning out on to the Drumcondra road...
    he reminds me a bit of Ciaran "kick in the head" Duff.
     
    Could be a "hard" physical match...
    
    
    Mick
    
    
    
    
    
    

> ....yes Dublin are the favourites..not sure what odds you would get. 

You want to know the odds, then ask the resident gambler of TALLIS:CELTS :-).

Dublin are almost unbackable (as were Offaly) at 4/9.  Tyrone are 7/4!

I tell you what a good bet looks like: Westmeath in the minor match versus
Derry.  Westmeath are 3/1, Derry are 2/7.  I really think Westmeath are going 
to win for a few reasons:

1. They beat the Munster representatives: Tipperary (who beat Cork, who beat 
Kerry the All-Ireland champions).

2. Westmeath are really hyped up for the match as it's their first All-Ireland
in a really long time and will have great support on the day.

3. Derry robbed Galway in the semi-final and didn't look great in their match.

I fancy Tyrone to turn over Dublin, though if Dublin can't win this one they
might as well give up.  They've been beaten in two of the last three finals
and lost the third year in the semi-final to the eventual winners by a point.
This has to be their year, doesn't it?

                            James.

    If anyone in Massachusetts or the rest of New England wants to watch
    the game, you can go to certain Irish pubs on Sunday and pay $20 for
    the privilage of watching it "live".  It will also be on both
    Sportschannel and NESN on next Wednesday.
    
    Anyway, up the DUBs!
    
    Ken Hanly

    the Jacks are back!!!!
    
    why do the Dubs always ease off in the second half?...I was having
    palpitations listening to that half-eejit doing the radio
    commentary....
    
    ....anyways, I saw the highlights last night and Dublin just about
    deserved the victory in the end. Tyrone needed their forward line to
    perform on the day and only Canavan really did the business for
    them....is it true that they only scored 2 points from open play?...
    
    ....Bealin looked like Dublin's Man of the Match to me....
    
    
    Ray....

    
    
    A one point win for the Dubs in a pretty bad and scrappy game of
    Football...and thats putting it mildly..At least for the moment its
    a Dublin win. Looks like Tyrone may object to the result.
    
    Charlie Redmond was sent off for thinking about giving one of the
    tyrone players a head-butt..Only problem was Charlie didn't feel like
    going off and continued to play for 2-3 minutes before the ref "found"
    him and then pointed out that off meant off. Here lies the problem.
    Going strictly by the rule-book Dublin were then fielding an Illegal
    player and should forfeit the match..The Tyrone county secretary has
    stated that they are seriously considering an objection.
    
    At the end of the match ie seconds to go Tyrone scored a point which
    was disallowed..as a Tyrone player seemed to play the ball from the
    ground with his hand..very very harsh.
    
    I hope they leave it lie but there isn't alot of good blood between
    these two teams..Lots of off the ball incidents mostly initiated
    from tyrone players....
    
    Mick
    So lots of pissed off Tyrone people. 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

How that guy O'Rourke didn't give the MOTM accolade to Peter Canavan
is beyond me.  Canavan was the single class act on display yesterday.
O'Rourke dismissed his one-man-band display with the words: "played
well".  If Tyrone had won, his would have been classed one of the
greatest - if not THE greatest - single performance ever seen in an
All-Ireland final. 

The ref. had a nightmare and must be extremely worried this morning,
for most of the grief will fall into his lap if Tyrone (rightly)
object to the yesterday's result.  The GAA will have to uphold
Tyrone's objection and give the game to them.  There are many
precedents to what could happen.  Many of the early All-Irelands were
decided away from the playing pitch.  This situation will put the GAA
authorities in a very difficult position; Tyrone should go ahead and
push the situation as far as they can. 

The game itself was a disaster.  The fact that the "champions" scored
two points in the whole of the second half is incredible and the fact
that Tyrone scored only two points from open play is even more so.
Canavan was wonderful, scoring from 11 of his 12 chances.  A pity the
rest of the Tyrone forward line didn't take up his example. 

The second half must have been one of the worst displays of football
I've ever seen.  The ref. only played three minutes extra time!  I'd
like the see how much of the second half was spent on stoppages etc -
certainly a lot more than just three measly minutes.  If he had
allowed more extra time, Tyrone *would* have got an equaliser. 

Tyrone had a good equaliser disallowed on the stroke of full-time.
This must really stick in their gut when they view some of the other
dubious decisions made by the referee in similar
ball-played-on-the-ground incidents during the game. 

If you believe the culchies were for Dublin yesterday, you have
another thing coming, BTW. 

Enough from me...finally did anyone take up my tip to back Westmeath
in the minors?  They did their county proud and carried home their
first All-Ireland title since 1929. 

                          James.

I think Charlie Redmond can think about hanging up his boots now. The Dubs got there win deservedly or not. I 
think it would be foolish of Tyrone to contest what happened. In one way they are playing into the hands of the 
G.A.A Personally I feel that it should have been Tyrone's day but it was not to be. 
I believe  Paul Curran got man of the match and Dessie Farrell got engaged yesterday. I congratulate the Dubs 
on there win but I feel that there are bigger and better teams out there just waiting to take Sam home next 
year.

    I heard a part of a radio interview this morning on the way in to work,
    it was a Tyrone county official suggesting they would appeal on account
    of charlie Redmond's famous three minutes. 
    
    Could the GAA call for a replay ? That seems fair enough to me. The
    game was as good as drawn in the end anyway.
    
    Kevin

    
    
    Doubt if it could be a replay...If the objection is upheld then its going 
    to Tyrone...thats the rule. It would have been better if it had finished a
    draw but thats all by-gones.
    
    Easy to blame the ref and he didn't have an excllent game..but players
    also must take some blame..alot of off the ball incidents which dragged
    the game into a scrap and brawl..Lohan should have walked as well as
    the tyrone keeper for hitting sherlock. 
    
    Yes the referee was a Tipp man..Tipp folk are not used to such
    uncivilised behavior.
    
    rgs,
    
    Mick
    

>    Yes the referee was a Tipp man..Tipp folk are not used to such
>    uncivilised behavior.

Maybe they're not used to football?  The last All-Ireland
football to go to Tiperary was, I think, 1900 (except
the minors of 1984)?

                    James. 

    If the ref was used to Tipp club matches he probably thouhgt that this
    was tame stuff.
    
    On the question of an appeal there is not a chance in hell that it
    would be upheld.
    
    MBr

    re .13
    
    If Tyrone lodged a complaint against Dublin because Charlie Redmond
    stayed on the pitch after being sent off, the rules are very clear.
    Dublin would forfeit the match. Such an appeal would be upheld.
    However, I think it unlikely that Tyrone would want to win their 
    first all-Ireland in such a way.
    
    They could also lodge an appeal that their last, disallowed point
    was good, in an attempt to have the match declared a draw and
    give them the chance to replay. Tyrone might well lodge such
    an appeal, but I think they would be unlikely to have it upheld.
    
    

> Should cheats prosper?

Who are the cheats in this case Brendan?

                         James.

    As we are talking about GAA rules on sending off the rules ARE very
    clear.
    
    The player has to refuse to go off.
    
    The referee has to give the captain of the opposing team 3 minutes
    warning.
    
    The referee then awards the match.
    
    
    None of the above 3 conditions were met. Ergo it is my opinion that any
    appeal will fail
    
    
    MBr

    
    
    I don't think they will bother appealing..As Martin mentioned the
    grounds are weak..Also the "point" that was scored is open to
    interpetation..and the ref was closer to the action...he blew before
    the "point' had been scored...albeit earlier similar type offences
    went unpunished.
    
    Overall a fair result...Maybe a few of the rules may have to be looked
    at as a consequence of all this...Football is fast becomming too
    basketball like...and too physical in a nasty sort of way. Everybody
    seems to be blaming the Dubs but Tyrone had their own share of dirty
    play..if not more...
    
    rgs,
    
    mick
     

    Well the media today seems quite confident that Tyrone will not appeal,
    but it seems to hang on the referees report. There are a number of open
    questions, but I must say I don't know as much about the rules as some
    of the learned honourable spitters who have commented above:
    
    Did the ref actually send Charlie off in the first instance or did he
    advise him to get a cup of tea and cool off a bit ? How can you prove
    it ?
    
    Did Charlie understand he had been sent off and was he deliberately
    acting the goat or was it all a terrible misunderstanding?
    
    Will the referees report actually contain what happened or will he,
    with the benefit of hindsight, complicate matters?
    
    Has anything happened like this since the time Cambridge sank in the
    boat race when I had a pound on them? (I was severely addicted to
    gambling at the time and it has got worse since)
    
    Are you still advising punters to hang onto their Tyrone betting slips,
    James? 
    
    Kevin
         

    As Kevin says, we'll have to wait for the referee's report
    before we can tell if Charlie was cheating or not. I wonder
    if it will bear any relation to reality? Certainly, if
    Charlie was *not* sent off three minutes before he actually
    left the pitch, then I'd be keen to see how the referee
    avoids incriminating himself!
    
    On Saturday afternoon, by the way, I walked past the bookies
    opposite Busker Brown's and thought to myself "I must go
    to the bank and get 20 quid and follow James' advice on
    Westmeath", but wouldn't you know that I'd forget before
    I even got as far as the bank?
       

>    On Saturday afternoon, by the way, I walked past the bookies
>    opposite Busker Brown's and thought to myself "I must go
>    to the bank and get 20 quid and follow James' advice on
>    Westmeath", but wouldn't you know that I'd forget before
>    I even got as far as the bank?

My winnings subsidise my full-time employment with Digital :-(.

But Brendan, the bank is just around the corner ;-).  Maybe you
were more interested in short term return i.e. 20 pounds = 9.5
pints of the black stuff in Buskers?

Believe it or not, that was the bookies I went in to get paid
today.  They are thinking of doing a book on the Tyrone-Dublin
appeal, but after what I've heard today I don't think Tyrone will
have a successful time appealing.  The GAA will close ranks on
this one and hope Tyrone - the good lads that they are - will
disappear back up north.  Eugene McKenna was quite annoyed by
the goings-ons Sunday I understand.  Anyone hear the interview
he gave to BBC/ITV after the game?  He told it like it was - a
trait I try to cultivate myself, usually to disasterous effect.

>    Are you still advising punters to hang onto their Tyrone betting slips,
>    James? 

I've still have mine in my qallet Kev!

                         James.

    
    Whats this about a new Dublin kid (Sherlock ?), who has hired Kevin
    Moran as his agent and gets paid for interviews ?
    
    Does this mean that the GaaH, will move to some level of professinalism
    soon, just like rugby ?
    
    	

>    Whats this about a new Dublin kid (Sherlock ?), who has hired Kevin
>    Moran as his agent and gets paid for interviews ?

There was a story last week doing the rounds that Sherlock was looking
for cash in exchange for *exclusive* interviews.  It seems that the
Dublin newspapers didn't take too kindly to this kind of
professionalism ;-).  In fact the RTE interviewer, at the post-match
dinner, joked to Jason about it. 

The question about professionalism is a can of worms the GAA would
prefer not to hear about either.  And for the obvious reasons too that
it will divert income (gate receipts/other income) away from the GAA
and into the players pockets.  I think it's only a matter of time
before the county teams of many counties will become
semi-professional.  This is not to say that the people behind many of
the teams aren't already looking at the management/organisation of
teams in a professional manner.  It's just that the players will
receive payments up front and not via the benefit-in-kind practiced
currently. 

Many of you will remember the debacle concerning the Kilkenny hurlers
of two years ago and the now infamous incident down in Limerick last
year when the players almost went on strike because they didn't get an
expenses paid holiday after losing the All-Ireland.  They (Limerick
Hurlers) were lucky to be let back into the county after what happened
;-(. 

                          James.

    Well he and most of the rest of the Dublin team were in Hanlons last
    night. There was a string of Kids looking for autographs. He obliged
    them all as far as I could see.
    
    There was also a string of young females hanging around. One in
    particular seemed to have the claws in him. He had'nt a chance.
    
    On the question of Kevin Moran it appears that all was not as it
    seemed. The question of money doid not occur it seemed. What happened
    appears to be that RTE were and others were really pestering him and he
    referred them to Kevin Moran. The question of money was then assumed.
    It was never mentioned.

>    There was also a string of young females hanging around. One in
>    particular seemed to have the claws in him. He had'nt a chance.

I wish I had the same sort of trouble ;-).

                      JAmes.

    Getting back to the game, I would agree with Mick's comment about the
    rules of football.  The game on Sunday got more and more like a
    combination of Australian Rules and Rugby Football, with a bit of Slap
    Stick Ice Hockey type dirty play thrown in.  A most unsightly affair.
    The GAA needs to do something to avoid the wild shoulder charges, stray
    boots, stomping, etc.  Charlie Redmond was justifiably retaliating, he
    just went too far and got caught.  I never saw the ref raise his arm
    and point to the sky and/or sideline.  It seemd to be utter chaos. 
    Maybe Charlie used selective hearing and hoped the problem would just
    go away over time.  Either way, an appeal would be daft and Dublin,
    just about, deserved to win.  Canavan for Tyrone was super in defeat.
    
    Regards,  Ken Hanly

    The news is that Tyrone won't be appealing after a unanimous decision
    at some committee meeting. So you can start chewing those betting slips
    James.
    
    Kevin

munch...munch...quite tasty but a bit expensive actually ;-).

                          James.