Conference tallis::celt

    Poor demented, brain washed, soul.

    I thoroughly agree with the sentiments expressed in .0
    
    It is an outrage that this person be considered for an honour in this
    way. When you bear in mind that she was directly responsible for
    atrocities like the sinking of the Belgrano in the war over the
    Malvinas while permitting members of her family enrich themselves in
    arms trading it is even more apalling.
    
    Mark Holohan will recognise that I rarely find common ground with him
    on many points but in this case Boston College is doing a grave
    disservice to Irish people generally and deserves the criticism it
    gets.
    
    Paul

    
    
     I thoroughly agree with the sentiments expressed in .0, even though
    I've probably never agreed with Holohan in the past.
    
     I would strongly disagree with any award/honor made to Margaret
    Thatcher. IMO she was/is a very dangerous person, whose many decisions
    during her "reign" at 10 Downing Street brought untold misery to many
    millions of people in Britain and beyond. 
    
      Danny.

    Thatcher should not be considered for anything other than appearing in
    "dominating bitch" roles in violent pornographic videos.
    
    rgds
    Mark

 I agree with the base note. 

Having seen a recent C4 documentary about here she is now quite mad.

rgds
Des.

Re .6

>>> Having seen a recent C4 documentary about here she is now quite mad.
                                                          ^^^

Des, I think she's been very mad for quite some time now :*)

Stevie..

>Having seen a recent C4 documentary about here she is now quite mad.
    
    Des, maybe she has that mad cow disease - which is strange cause I
    thought it occurred only on the continent... She did do a lot of
    travelling through.
    
    :v)                

    >Having seen a recent C4 documentary about here she is now quite mad.
    
    Was that the one called "Tracking Mrs. Thatcher" (or something like
    that). I wasched it last night and it was one of the funniest programs
    I've seen in years. It did, however, prove what a strangle hold she had
    on the English media.

A stranglehold she still seems to have, on occasions.  I thought she'd
at least have the dignity to disappear from public view after her (presumably
humiliating) ousting from power, but unfortunately not.

Chris.

.8  George.There have been many cases of mad cow disease in Britain but these 
have diminished considerably strangely enough,since Thatcher was turfed out of 
office.
  


.9  That's the programme, Tony. What sealed it for me was the fact that her
 favourite piece of music of all time was "2 little boys" by Rolf Harris!
Now if she had picked the Splodgenessabounds version.....$^)

BTW the producer of the programme did an earlier documentary on Eugene Terrablanc
the militant Africaaner and another nutter and a Thatcher bed fellow for sure. 
I'm not sure the exact title but it was something like " The boss his wife and 
the driver ".  It is in turn both hilarious and chilling.  


rgds

Des.

		As a graduate of Boston College in another era, I am
	appalled by the award.

		Its not just an honorary degree in government like
	Georgetown gave her a few years back or even allowing her
	the freedom to speak at some lecture. It's one of their most
	prestigious award.

		 At first I thought it was a joke, but I checked with a
	friend who teaches there. The University is in an uproar. The
	administration is trying to backpeddle. No  comment so far.
	It still hasn't been officially announced.  No one seems to be
	taking responsibility. 
		
		I've already written a protest letter to Fr. Monan.

		The rationalization for this award must be financial.
	The Wall Street types are behind it. It's their dinner. This
	will backfire with alumni withholding pledges. 

		 To paraphrase the great St. Ignatius himself:
		
	" What profit a University to gain the whole world, yet suffer
          the loss of its soul? "
		
		If this goes through, Boston College will have lost its soul.

I'm afraid that Boston College lost its soul several years back
while trying to create the big football school image. It turned
its back on many locals that created it. There's definitely mixed
feelings about its development as a "higher learning institution".

/g                                   

    I think America lost it's soul back in the eighties when Thatcher and
    Reagan were bosom buddies. It was Thatcher after all who allowed
    American war planes to use British airfields in a mis-guided attack on
    Libya.
    
    Bill

    Just as an update on this issue, there was a letter into the Irish
    Times last week from several Jesuits at a retreat house in Belfast
    protesting against this honour being awarded to herself.  The Jesuits
    appreciated that Boston College is a secular organisation, but it is
    still very much associated with the Society of Jesus, and as such, they
    were objecting.  I see that Cardinal O'Connor has weighed in to the
    fray and criticised the decision.  Meanwhile, Thomas Flatley, the
    Irish-born entrepeneur in Boston, has said that he understands the
    criticism, but people must remember the lady's contribution to
    World-wide peace.  I think Mr. Flatley has had his memory impaired by
    the potential fund-rasing impact of the Iron Lady.  I am sure that the
    Argentinians (the Falklands/Malvinas War) aren't proposing the lady for
    the Nobel Peace Prize.  It is one thing to have this person preside at
    graduation and receive an honourary degree, but to reward her for her
    contribution to the betterment of mankind is disingenuous.  Your
    average English bloke/woman would agree, as the Pole Tax made her more
    unpopular in Britain than in Ireland.  Is there any chance that Fr.
    Monan and otherw will intervene to stop the ceremony going ahead.  Let
    us hope they do.
    
    Ken Hanly, Dublin

    There was an article about the proposed Boston College award 
    in the Boston Globe last week. In it Flatley did state something
    along the lines of "world peace" and also that it was more
    a "question of money". Apparently, they are pulling in $1 million
    for the ceremony. As of 2 weeks ago they received several hundred
    letters in protest. I haven't heard of any student activity yet.
    Given his commercial interests in New England, I think Flatley is
    making a mistake.
    
    /George

I personally can't stand the woman, and I believe she's made some serious
mistakes because of her headstrong nature, but I still don't see what the
problem is with her being awarded this honour.  Could someone please
enlighten me (beyond the `it's obvious, she's English' type of reasoning)

Chris.

	The organization which is giving the award is the Wall Street
	Council for Boston College. Its co-chairman surprisingly
	is Peter Lynch of Fidelity Fame and current chairman of the
	Ireland Fund.

	BC maintains the May 5 date was accidental, that they didn't
	connect it with Bobby Sands death. However in her book "The
	Downing Street Years" Thatcher says:

	   "Bobby Sands died on Tuesday May 5. The date was of some
	    significance for me personally, though I did not know
	    it at the time. From this time forward I became the
	    IRA's top target for assassination".
	
	It's interesting that May 5 was the only time she was available
	to receive the award. Me thinks Boston College is being
	manipulated.

	As for the history of the award, a previous winner was 
	William Aramony, the former head of the United Way who the 
	year after, was forced involved in a major scandal
	with regards to the fund.

I think people are being a bit unduly hard on Maggie Thatcher here.

Remember, Ireland is the "curse of history" on English Prime Ministers, I
doubt many of them have an explicit goal of repressing Ireland on their
agendas as they opt for that career. 

As the ending of 'political status' was a low point in her career, it was
followed by the Dublin Accords and Anglo-Irish agreement. I don't know if
the present peace process will result in a settlement but if it does, I'm
sure it will be seen to have had its roots in Thatcher's era. 

Maggie was very unpopular as a result of the Poll Tax but she did much
to roll back socialism in England. These days you hardly ever hear of
union problems, probably even less so than in the US at present. She was
also very much behind the "Privatization" trend that is running thru 
Anglo-Saxon governments at the moment (e.g. New Hampshire seems to
be in the middle of privatizing many state government services). There
are some who credit the tough anti-soviet stance of Reagan and Thatcher
for bringing the end of Communism in Russia (personally I favour the 
self-destruct theory of the Soviet Union). Lastly there's the economic boom
generated in the mid-eighies.

Personally I'm with Flatley on this one.

Mark
  

    I think the peace process in Ireland would have evolved much earlier
    had Maggie taken a softer approach to Northern Ireland. She made few
    concessions to the hunger strikers and was generally very unaccomodating.
    
    The issue here is not an "English" vs. "Irish". As said earlier I would
    give an award to John Major. There are other English politicians as well
    that are far more deserving than she.
    
    As for her "outstanding accomplishments in human endeavors" we can look
    to the Argentine war, the bombing of Libya, the arms scandal, poll tax,
    and repeated thinly veiled racist references to "those people in
    Ireland", referring to the people wishing to govern themselves.
    
    It would be another matter if Harvard or Boston University decided to
    roast Ms. Thatcher. Boston College was built up by the mainly Irish
    American immigrants, looking to obtaining higher education for their
    people. B.C. grew up in the shadows of the other "Yankee" colleges of
    Harvard and Boston University and in the era of "Irish need not apply".
    Strangely enough, the Jesuits, taking vows of poverty, are one of the most
    liberal (some would say far left) Catholic religious orders.
    
    In any case their decision to award Ms. Thatcher is in line with their
    other award to Mr. $900,000_per_year William Aramony, ex-director of
    the United Way charitable organization, who I believe is now in jail.
    
    Slan,
    George

re. .19

> I think people are being a bit unduly hard on Maggie Thatcher here.

  Folks were hard on Adolf Hitler too, will you be pleading for him
  next?

> Remember, Ireland is the "curse of history" on English Prime Ministers,

  A history of oppression by the British government.

> I don't know if
>the present peace process will result in a settlement but if it does, I'm
>sure it will be seen to have had its roots in Thatcher's era. 

  The only seeds sown by Maggot Thatcher were the seeds of war.

> These days you hardly ever hear of
> union problems, probably even less so than in the US at present.

  Union problems?  You mean like having to crack the heads of hardworking
  coal miners so they didn't ask for too much?
  Some Unions may have problems, that doesn't mean the concept of men
  and women organizing to improve their lot in life is a bad thing.
  Would you have us back to the days of sweat shops?


> There
> are some who credit the tough anti-soviet stance of Reagan and Thatcher
> or bringing the end of Communism in Russia  

  Gee, good thing the Russians backed down, or we'd all be nuclear roasted
  tough guys.

> Lastly there's the economic boom
> generated in the mid-eighies.

  And here I thought we were finally surfacing from the Republican inspired
  depression.

                                  Mark

Irish-Americans protest at planned Thatcher honour

    NEW YORK, March 3 (Reuter) - New York's Cardinal John
O'Connor added his voice on Friday to protests by Irish
Americans against plans by a Catholic college in Boston to
honour former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher on the
anniversary of the death of Irish hunger striker Bobby Sands.
    O'Connor expressed ``perplexity and deep concern'' over the
planned honour by prestigious Boston College at a meeting of
Irish community leaders in New York.
    The Irish community leaders, including radio show host
Adrian Flannelly, say that while the college has a right to
honour anyone it wishes, they describe as ``insensitive'' that
Thatcher should be conferred with an honour on May 5, the 14th
anniversary of Sands' death.
    There was no immediate response from the college on Friday.
    Sands and 10 other IRA prisoners died while on hunger strike
in Northern Ireland in 1981, during Thatcher's rule, protesting
against the British government's refusal to grant them political
status.
    Sands, who was elected a member of the British Parliament
while on the hunger strike, was the first to die. His death
sparked protests and prompted worldwide coverage.
    New York Republican Congressman Peter King, a frequent
critic of British policies in Northern Ireland, also condemned
the college's plan on Friday, and joined with the Irish-American
group in calling on the college to cancel the event or change
the date.
    ``We are deeply disturbed that Boston College is going ahead
with plans to present its prestigious Ignatius Medal to former
British prime minister Margaret Thatcher on May 5,'' the group
said in a letter sent to the college on Friday.
    ``The award is not just an insult to Americans of Irish
heritage but also a betrayal of the special bond between Boston
College and Irish America. The scheduling of its presentation on
the 14th anniversary of the death of hunger striker Bobby Sands
compounds this insensitivity,'' the letter said.

Copyright 1995, Reuters News Service

    re .19 - Sarcastic notes like that are always the funniest.

I see from this morning's news that 5 May isn't available to Maggie 
anymore to accept this prestigious award.  It seems that she will be
honoured in another way later in the year, but not with the Iggy
award.  Maybe the BC people came to their senses on this one as a
result of the barrage of criticism they've shifted. 

...Wait a minute didn't I read in an earlier note that 5 May was the
only date she had open to receive the award.  How come it's suddenly
closed up ;-). 

                          James.

    It is good to see that this saga has ended well.  It seems that the
    Iron Lady and BC decided to forget the whole thing and honour her with
    something different latter.  The combination of Thatcher, Irish-American
    protests, the prestige of the medal (previous recipients are Corzon
    Aquino and Elizabeth Dole), and the Sands anniversary were too potent.
    
    It was the third main headline on the RTE News this morning.
    
    All's well that ends well and let's just leave it at that.
    
    Ken Hanly, Dublin

                <<< VAXCAT::DKA300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EF95.NOTE;1 >>>
                     -< Remember: you saw it here first! >-
================================================================================
Note 7.575      News from the Wires or The First Draft of History.    575 of 577
HOO78C::ANDERSON "But it is not a P. C. universe."   63 lines   7-MAR-1995 07:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RTw  03/06 2144  Boston College cancels award to Britain's Thatcher

    NEW YORK, March 6 (Reuter) - Boston College, one of America's leading
    Catholic colleges, on Monday cancelled a planned award to former
    British prime minister Margaret Thatcher after protests from the
    Irish-American community.

    Officials at Boston College told Reuters it had cancelled the award
    after a call from Mrs Thatcher's office saying she would be unavailable
    on the date of the award. "She gave no reasons as to why she would be
    unable to attend," college spokesman Doug Whiting said.

    The planned award had sparked widespread criticism among
    Irish-Americans and last Friday New York Cardinal John O'Connor joined
    the protests expressing "perplexity and deep concern at the plan."

    Irish talk show host Adrien Flannelly, a leader of the Irish-American
    community, told Reuters Boston College had scrapped its plan to give
    Thatcher its Ignatius Medal on May 5, the 14th anniversary of the death
    of IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands.

    Sands and 10 other IRA prisoners died on hunger strike in Northern
    Ireland in 1981 during Thatcher's rule protesting against the British
    government's refusal to grant them political status.

    Sands, who was elected a member of the British Parliament while on
    hunger strike, was the first to die. His death sparked protests and
    prompted worldwide coverage.

    Whiting told Reuters the event had been expected to raise $1 million
    for the college. He said the dinner would still go ahead and the former
    British prime minister would be honoured by the college at a later
    date, "but not in the form of the Ignatius Medal."

    A spokeswoman for the Boston Committee for Amercian Irish Solidarity,
    which had opposed the award from the beginning, told Reuters, "We
    understand she picked the day to receive the award, Boston College did
    not."

    Marie Howe, a former Massachusetts state legislator and the committee's
    co-chair, said the group hopes Boston College will "withdraw the award
    and not leave it up to her, and not present her with any other awards
    in lieu of the Ingatius."

    U.S. Representative Peter King, a New York state Republican who is a
    frequent critic of British policies in Northern Ireland, also condemned
    the college's plan at a Friday meeting of Irish community leaders and
    joined O'Connor in calling on the college to cancel the event or change
    the date.

    "The award is not just an insult to Americans of Irish heritage but
    also a betrayal of the special bond between Boston College and Irish
    America. The scheduling of its presentation (to Mrs Thatcher) on the
    14th anniversary of the death of hunger striker Bobby Sands compounds
    this insensitivity," said a letter sent to Boston College last Friday.

    The award to Mrs. Thatcher was to be made at New York's Waldorf-Astoria
    Hotel by the president of Boston College, Father J. Donald Monan. The
    award was to honour Mrs Thatcher for "her leadership in international
    affairs and the firmness with which she tackled the British economy."

    REUTER