Conference tallis::celt

1371.0. "Guinness IS good for you ..." by ACTGSF::BURNS (ANCL�R) Thu Apr 21 1994 12:10

                   Guinness  and Folklore

                                         Revised, March 20, 1994.

There has been much posted about Guinness to this group, and much
of it could be used to spawn a new group alt.guinness.folklore. 
I find a great deal of irony in this:  there is probably more
"folklore" about Guinness than any other beer, yet it was the
Guinness people that underwrote the famous "Book of Records" to
settle arguments often based on rumours rather than fact.  So, in
an attempt to "set the record straight" I offer: 

                            Guinness Facts

References:    MJBC -- Michael Jackson's Beer Companion (1993)
               MJPG91 -- MJ's Pocket Guide to Beer (1991)
               RADA -- Real Ale Drinker's Almanac

"No other brewery uses as much roasted barley as Guinness, which
prepares its own."  (MJBC, p 181)

"The brewery...uses several varieties (of hops), among which
Goldings are perhaps the most influential." (MJBC, pp 180-181) 

<In an earlier thread, someone claimed that Guinness used hops
from Texas.  There is no such mention of hops from Texas in MJBC,
but I am willing to be convinced.  However, the Extra Stout that
used to be brewed at the Park Royal Brewery in London used
"English and American whole hops"  RADA. p 163>

Guinness "...uses its original yeast, though this has been
selected down from several strains to one, which was arrived at
in about 1960.  It works at high temperatures (around 25'C/77'F),
and it is very dispersed, having neither risen to the top nor
sunk to the bottom, when it is removed by centrifuge."  (MJBC, pp
181)

"Dublin makes five or six principal versions of Guinness, in a
total of 19 variations, and exports around 40 percent of its
output." (MJBC, p 181)

All the grain used by Guinness is grown in Ireland.  The non-malt
grains used in the domestic product is 25% flaked barley and 10%
roasted barley. (MJBC p 181)

                           Guinness FAQs

Q:   I've seen Guinness sold in Germany even when the
     Reinheitsgebot applied to imported beers.  How can that be?

A:   "In line with the German Purity Law, the barley is replaced
     with pale and roasted malt in Continental Europe." (MJBC p
     181)

Q:   What types of Guinness are there?

A:   MJ states 5 or 6 main types in 19 variations.  So far, we've
     been able to identify (Detailed specifications are listed in
     the last section of this FAQ):

     Draught Guinness (Ireland, NA), is smooth full-bodied and
          creamy.  Despite its body, it is a rather mild beer (OG
          1039, 3.4% abw, 4.2% abv).  This beer is pasteurized. 
          There are many local variations of this product.  The
          canned "Pub Draught Guinness" using the draught-flow
          (tm) system is a packaged version of this beer.

     Bottle Conditioned Guinness (Ireland) had similar
          specifications to the Draught Guinness, but the
          presence of the yeast provides for a "...spicier,
          fruitier, drier, more complex and lively, fresh
          character." (MJBC, 182)

     Bottled Guinness (Britain) has similar specifications to the
          above two beers, but it is pasteurized.

     All Malt Guinness (Continental Europe) is available both
          draught and bottled.  It is slightly stronger and also
          has a little more of the characteristic stout bite.

     Guinness Extra Stout/Guinness Original (bottled, available
          widely) is stronger with even more stout bite.  MJ
          reports this to be 4.8% abw, 6.0% abv, but one poster
          says that in advertising from Guinness Imports, the
          strength is listed as 5.6%.  This product is licensed
          for production widely around the world.

     There is a strong bottled version (Belgium and others) that
          is somewhat sweeter and stronger (7.5% abv)

     Foreign Extra Stout (primarily tropical countries) is also
          about 7.5% abv.  However, this is blend of Guinnesses,
          included one aged for three months.

     In Nigeria, which bans barley, Guinness is made from
     sorghum.

Q:   What is a Black & Tan  What is a Half-and-Half?

A:   The answer depends on who you ask.  The all-Guinness Black &
     Tan is Harp's Lager and Guinness.  (Harp's is brewed by
     Guinness at Dundalk).  Many consider the classic Black & Tan
     to be Bass Pale Ale and Guinness.  (To some Irish, they
     appreciate the fact that the Irish comes out on top!)  I've
     been in a pub that used Smithwicks and Guinness. 
     (Smithwicks is also owned by Guinness.)  However, there are
     many variations involving a stout or porter and another
     lighter coloured beer, either lager or ale.  The Black & Tan
     name is derived from a regiment of soldiers recruited to
     serve in Ireland after the First World War.  They had a
     reputation for being quite brutal.

     A half-and-half is often just another name for a Black &
     Tan.  However, in many North American Irish pubs, the
     Bass/Guinness combination is called a Black & Tan, while the
     Harp/Guinness combination is called a Half-and-Half.

     Guinness advertising refers to a Black & Tan as being the
     Bass and Guinness version.

     When your bartender is a 240 lb., 6'4" fellow named
     O'Malley, a Black & Tan (or a Half-and-Half) is whatever he
     says it is!

Q:   How do I pour a Black and Tan?

A:   Carefully.  Practice.  With a special spoon.  There are many
     answers.

     I have had success pouring the Harp or Bass vigorously so
     that it develops a good head.  Using a Black & Tan spoon,
     pour the Guinness slowly over the back of the spoon.  I will
     remain layered for some time.  (You can make your own by
     bending the bowl of a spoon back so that when you lower it
     into the glass, the bowl is concave down.)

Q:   Why does the Guinness float on top of the other beer?

A:   "Quality always rises to the top" (Jon Binkley)

Q:   Should I order a Black & Tan in Dublin?

A:   Not advisable.  Stick with straight Guinness.  If you really
     want a B&T, order a "half-n-half".

Q:   What is Black Velvet?

A:   Guinness and Champagne in equal proportions (MJBC p 176)

Q:   How does the draught-flow can work?  What's that plastic
     thing in the can do?

A:   The simple, non-technical answer is that the little plastic
     bladder is filled with nitrogen, not nitrous oxide or
     nitrous dioxide as claimed by a couple of posters.  Since
     the can's contents are under pressure, some of the Guinness
     is forced into the plastic bladder through a pin-hole.  When
     the can is opened, the nitrogen and beer mixture is released
     creating the lovely foamy head.

     Nitrogen is used because it creates smaller bubbles than
     carbon dioxide, which can also leave a tinny taste.
Q:   Why does the bottled Guinness taste so different than the
     draught or canned "draught-flow" product?

A:   (U.S./Canada answer):  These are two entirely different
     beers.  The bottled Guinness if Guinness Extra Stout, while
     the others are simply Guinness.  The Extra Stout uses more
     roast barley and has somewhat higher IBUs, resulting in a
     harsher, sharper flavour.  Which you prefer is a matter of
     personal taste.

     (Ireland answer):  The bottled product is bottle
     conditioned, meaning the presence of live yeast.  The yeast
     gives it a very different character.

Q:   Is the Guinness family still involved with the Guinness
     company?

A:   The family still has a large financial stake in Arthur
     Guinness & Son PLC, but have not been directly involved in
     the management since 1992.

Q:   I've heard that Guinness contains oysters.  Is that true?

A:   No.  At one time, oyster shell may have been used as finings
     to rid the beer of unwanted solids, but this was not in this
     century, and may not have ever been done by Guinness.  There
     are oyster stouts that contain oyster, oyster extracts, etc.

Q:   Doesn't Guinness contain oatmeal?

A:   No.  It is a rather common misconception that Guinness (and
     all other stouts) contain oatmeal.  Oatmeal Stout is a
     distinctive style stout.  The revivalist of this style was
     Samuel Smith's Brewery in Yorkshire, England, at the request
     of its North American agent, Merchant du Vin of Seattle.

Q:   How does one spell Guinness?

A:   Never!  That's a waste of nectar!  Oh, Sorry.  I thought you
     said "spill".

     Guinness is spelled exactly as you see in the question --
     two "N's", two "S's" and a "U" before the "I".  The "G" is
     always capitalized.  Unfortunately, it is misspelled in the
     index of the 1991 Pocket Guide to Beer (only one "N").

Q:   Doesn't Guinness contain {insert name of animal} {insert
     your favourite word for urine}?

A:   No.  It is not part of the formulation, and there is
     virtually no opportunity for this to happen by chance.  We
     cannot be as unequivocal about Labudmilloorsons, however.
     ;-)

Q:   Is Guinness really good for you?

A:   Medically, possibly.  Its alcohol is low enough to have a
     relaxing effect.  The bottle-conditioned product may produce
     a mild laxative effect due to the live yeast.  Too many
     bottles of the bottle-conditioned product can have an
     extreme laxative and diuretic effect, which is not good for
     you.

     There is medical folklore about Guinness and stout, in
     general. "In some countries, stout is seen as an
     aphrodisiac, or as a beneficial bath for newborn babies."
     (MJBC p 177)  Since most research indicates the aphrodisiac
     effects are primarily psychological, there may be truth to
     the former.  Too many may have an adverse affect on
     performance, however.

     Of course, if you feel as good as I do after enjoying and
     Guinness, then there is no question that it is good for you!

Q:   But isn't Guinness high in calories?

A:   Not especially.  "Guinness is not notably high in
     calories..." (MJBC, p 177)  This refers to the draught,
     bottle-conditioned and draught flow (tm) product, which are
     fairly low in alcohol.  Calories in beers come from the
     alcohol and the residual sugars.  The higher the alcohol,
     the higher the caloric content.

Q:   What's the proper thing to say when someone {buys you a
     Guinness/ gives you a 4-pack of Draught-flow cans/gives you
     your own cask}?

A:   Whale oil beef hooked!  ;->

Q:   Is there a Guinness smiley/emoticon?

A:   (P-:)  <- reverse angle, licking the rich, creamy Guinness
     foam off the upper lip.


                           Specs & Stats

Draught Guinness (Ireland & North America):

OG:       1039 (9.75 Plato)
Alcohol:  3.4% abw, 4.2% abv
BU:       45
Colour:   EBC - 130


"Draught-flow" Canned "Pub Draught Guinness"

Similar specifications as the Draught Guinness, above.
Alcohol:  3.3% abw, 4.1% abv


Bottled Guinness (U.S.) -- This is an "Extra Stout"

Alcohol:  4.8% abw, 6% abv (although one poster noted that they
          had seen 5.6% in their promotional materials)
BU:       50+


Bottled Guinness (Ireland)

"similar" specifications as bottle conditioned

OG:       1040
Alcohol:  3.5% abw, 4.3% abv
Contents: Pale malt, flaked barley, roasted barley, English and
          American whole hops (RADA)


Continental Guinness (Draught and bottled)

Alcohol:  "a little more than 4 percent by weight, 5 by volume"
          (MJBC p 181)


"strong" Bottled Guinness

OG:       1073 (18 Plato)
Alcohol:  6% abw, 7.5% abv
BU:       50+


Guinness Extra Stout (England, according to Eckhardt)

OG:       1052 (13.2 Plato)
Alcohol:  4.4% abw, 5.5% abv
BU:       50
Colour:   9.5 (Eckhardt's Scale)  This would translate into
          something around or over 50 SRM and about 130 EBC


Foreign Extra Stout (this is a blend of Guinnesses):

OG:       1073 (MJPG91)
BU:       mid-60s


Guinness Extra Stout (Ireland in 1901, according to Eckhardt)

OG:       1075 (18.2 Plato)
Alcohol:  6.3% abw, 7.9% abv
BU:       90 (!)

    so that's why the Guinness tastes sh**e over here.
    
    Joe. (who'd kill for a decent pint!)

     re.-1
    
    	 I'll second that emotion!
    
     Went back to Galway for a week in February.....you _KNOW_ I didn't
    go back for the weather! 

    
    	Joe: It's just because your going to the wrong places.   :-)
    
    	 There is a fine pint in Mr. Dooleys or in the Green Dragon as you
    	 must recall.
    
    
	 keVin
    

    keVin,
    
    I haven't made it to Mr Dooley's yet, the Green Dragon is fine for over
    here, the Pint is pulled correctly and the beer lines appear to be
    maintained well, but it's hardly the mother's milk you'd get at home.
    
    I suppose I was just spoilt before this.
    Joe.

    
    The Green Dragon and Mr. Dooleys are both owned by John Joe Summers
    from Tralee, and the manager at Mr. Dooleys is Mike Shurlock from
    Athenry. Most if not all of the barkeepers are Irish born also.
    
    
    keVin
    

    Where exactly is Mr Dooleys in relation to the Green Dragon? I know you
    told me the other evening, but I have a head like a sieve at times.
    It'd be the diff between giving me a fish and teaching me how to fish,
    don cha no.
    
    Joe.

    
    
    	Mr. Dooleys
    	77 Broad St.
    	617.338.9171
    
    
    	Just one block over from the "Black Rose" on State St.
    
    	If you were leaving the Black Rose, you would turn right and
    	walk up State Street. Broad Street would be the first street 
    	on your left. As you walk down Broad Street towards Atlantic 
        Avenue, Mr. Dooleys will be on your right, just after the
    	intersection of Broad Street and Milk Street.
	
    
    	Mr. Dooleys also had a very good Irish Breakfast on Sundays
    	till about 4.00
    
    
    	There is a "Boston Irish Pub Crawl" scheduled to leave from Manchester 
        NH on May 14th.  If anyone is interested and wants more info, send
    	me E-Mail.  
    
    
	keVin
    

    
    
    	>There is a "Boston Irish Pub Crawl" scheduled to leave from Manchester 
        >NH on May 14th.  If anyone is interested and wants more info, send
    	>me E-Mail.  
    	
	
	What date is the return?


	Gary

    May 21st

    
    
    	Who said anything about returning ?? 	:-)
    
    
	In all honesty, I believe plans have been made to rent a bus 
    	(with Loo) that will transport us from Manchester NH to Boston. 
    	I think the plan is for the bus to depart Manchester NH around
    	noon and to head back to Manchester around 9PM.
    	
    

    2 Questions before we commit:
    
    1) Will there be a fry? (is Martin bringing sausages?)
    2) And is Paddy Culbert driving?
    
    /g

    
    
    1.	Martin may be able to provive some "homemade" liquid refreshments.
    
    
    2.  Mick Keyes will be doing all the driving !!!
    
    
    
	
    keVin
    

    
    On for this..will be there..(forget the driving though -)..
    God help the bus driver....
    
    Then again if he gets tired or is going too slow....-) -)

    
    
    ....so is there a meet up place planned in Boston....
    
    Time..location...
    
    rgs,
    
    Mick

    
    
    Jennifer O'Rourke is handling all the arrangements .........  :-)
    
    
    
    George Darcy has also threatened to attend  !!!
    
    
    
    keVin

    So, are any of you travellers planning to drop in on the Irish cultural
    stuff tomorrow that was written up in yesterday's Globe calendar
    section?  Looks like some good folk music, and stuff.
    
    Oh, I also notice there's a Brewers Festival going on down at the World
    Trade Center.
    

    
    Tell me more about that there Kultural stuff .........  :-)  
    
    
    I think it's $20 to get into the brewers festival !!!!
    
    If anyone is in the area, we plan to meet around 1.30 at the Green Dragon
    for a few jars, then the Pub Crawl will begin !!
    
    
    keVin
    
    

    RE: .17  by ACTGSF::BURNS 
    
    >Tell me more about that there Kultural stuff .........  :-)  
    
    Sorry, keVin.  You'll have to look for yesterday's Globe at the Library
    or something and photocopy the writeup.  It certainly looked to be
    worth going to.  Fourona Faie [sp?] was one of the groups, and I think
    Oine Manoig [sp?] was another musician.  One admission to all of the
    days events, except I think the evening concert was limited or extra.
    
    -dja
    

    
    Kev.   you'll like it, loads of Kulture
    
    				Agri-Kulture
    
    

    So, any sign of our keVin yet today?
    

    
    
    Alive and Well !!!		:-)
    
    
    
    keVin
    
    

    I went to the kulture thing.  It was ok.
    
    The big fair at Stonehill College is coming up on June 10,11 and 12th.
    
    Julie