| Title: | Celt Notefile |
| Moderator: | TALLIS::DARCY |
| Created: | Wed Feb 19 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Tue Jun 03 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 1632 |
| Total number of notes: | 20523 |
Northern Diary
special report from Brian Rohan
from The Irish Voice
Jan. 26, 1994
******
The North's Republicans-Themselves Alone
To say that Northern Ireland's Republicans--those who refuse to
recognize the 1921 partition that created Northern Ireland and
who believe in a unites Irish Republic--are alienated, is an
understatement. Landing inn Belfast airport on the day of the
Downing Street Declaration, this reporter was greeted with
newsstands which proclaimed peace. 'Historic Peace Settlement',
screamed one headline, 'Peace Within Hours', screamed
another,apparently referring to that afternoon's press
conferences in London. To be honest, I wondered for a minute if I
had arrived too late.
However it took less than an hour of walking around town to
realize that the newspapers, written in the press rooms in
London, Dublin and Belfast city, were so off-base that they may
as well have come from another planet. Not one person who walked
the town on that day could have possibly imagined that this
declaration between Prime Minister John Major and Taoiseach
Albert Reynolds would be ending this thing.
This was most evident by the front-page photograph of the Daily
Mirror, Dec 16, which was carried in many other papers as well.
In huge white letters the word 'Peace' was graffitied on a red-
brick wall. The caption read, "The writing's on the wall for
terrorists. The above graffiti was found yesterday on the Lower
Falls, just yards away from Sinn Fein headquarters."
Curious, I headed for the Falls. The word 'Peace' was there
alright, but the papers neglected to mention that it was
surrounded by a couple of other words, forming the sentence,
"Support the Adams/Hume Peace Process," which, of course, is
Sinn Fein's preferred alternate to the DOwning Street
Declaration. The photographer had cropped out the rest, making it
look as if even the Republican movement's hardcore supporters on
the Falls Road were demanding a surrender.
Nothing could be further from the truth. In the Falls, and in
other REpublican areas across the six counties on N.I., there
seemed to be as much war-weariness and a tremendous desire to end
the fighting, but not at any cost.
***
Paddy O'Dowd is one man who should want more than anything forthe
fighting to stop, immediately. He was convicted in 1984 of IRA
membership and the killing of a British Army soldier. His life
sentence will most likely keep him inside his present home, a
cell in the H-Blocks of Maze Prison, until the next century.
If the IRA surrendered, and the fighting completely stopped, that
time could conceivably be cut in half or more with amnesty
parole for political offenders such as himself. But O'Dowd,
sitting in a visitor's booth in the massively fortified County
Antrim prison, he'd rather sit in jail than see the IRA surrender
without progressing towards the REpublican goal.
"Ten men died in this prison," said O'Dowd, referring tothe 198
hunger strike, "and a lot more died outside--we can't have them
dying in vain."
***
The prison itself is massive, grey and imposing, ribboned with
miles of barbed wire and equipped with the latest technology, yet
the most shocking thing about it is how it blends into the
surroundings almost unnoticeably. Every day dozens of visitors-
--wives and girlfriends in Sunday clothes, children playing 'tag'
around the jungle gym of the waiting area--pass through here as
if going to the shop for a bottle of milk.
Everything has become very regularized and very familiar. In the
first of a series of waiting rooms I am told that I am sitting on
the wrong side of the room--men sit to the left, and rotate
positions like members of a volleyball team, while filing in to
be frisked. The kids run about, stopping to look at the 'Sesame
Street; characters which the prison has had painted on the walls.
The final room, the visiting room, similarly resembles a
community recreation room. O'Dowd explains to me how the
concessions won after the hunger strike included the new visiting
room,carpeted, heated with semi-private booths. "The Republican
prisoners ar 100% behind the Republican leadership," says O'Dowd,
nodding hello to one of the prison's more famous inmates, hunger
strike leader Bik McFarlane.
Afterwards, the many without cars file into one of two buses: the
wives, girlfriends, brothers and friends of the IRA men file into
one bus, which is run for the families free of charge by Sinn
Fein, and their counterparts on the Loyalist side file into
another, operated by the Ulster Defense Association. Familiarity
breeds social nicety--the visitors chat and smoke cigarettes
during the ride back to Belfast.
***
If Belfast, then, is the top dog which gets all the attention in
the conflict, then it is the countryside which wags the tail of
that dog. Tyrone, Armagh and south Derry is where the action is.
This is the much fabled 'bandit country', the place that is
British, but British in name only.
Every method by which to tear apart British rule is considered
to be worth exploring. In many parts of this country the British
Army simply refuses to go on foot. In Armagh the Army bases have
to get their supplies and send out their garbage by helicopter,
it is too deadly otherwise.
There are subtler forms of this rebellion, such as the outright
glee expressed by people in one particular area who spoke of how
the local welfare office was having computer problems, and was
giving out two checks per week instead on one. And everywhere,
the soldiers who man the numerous roadblocks were referred to as
"the s**t," as in, "Is there any s**t out on the streets today?"
And then, of course, there is the Lone Wolf.
'Lone Wolf' is the nickname given to the IRA's most effective
weapon in Northern Ireland over the past two years--the sniper
who has terrified troops along the border. That sniper has fired
only nine bullets in almost two years, and with them has shot
dead nine British soldiers.
All the deaths have happened along the Armagh border, most near
the town of Crossmaglen. The most popular traffic sign in that
town is a counterfeit hand-painted one which hangs from several
poles. The sign has the silhouette of a man holding a rifle with
eh words reading: "Sniper at Work".
In this part of the country, the Lone Wolf has grown to folk-
hero proportions. The security forces are not sure if the sniper
is indeed only one person, and all they do know is that the
bullets uses are 5 inch. 50 caliber monsters capable of shredding
the heaviest of flak jackets. The ninth and most recent victim
was Guardsman Daniel Blinco, shot on December 30.
***
Apart from being home to some of the deadliest action, the
countryside is also known for tension with the Republican
leadership in Belfast. During my trips down the country,
Republicans with whom I spoke were soon asking questions
themselves as to what was going on in Belfast, and when in
Belfast, vice versa. The attitude can be summed up by one man in
the very rural area of Dungannon, County Tyrone, who said that
local Republicans were entirely behind the efforts of Gerry
Adams, but were very wary about any negotiations that doesn't end
in British withdrawal.
"After the news of all these peace talks and proposals, I read
every newspaper I could get my hands on," he said. "I bought
them all, trying to figure out what was going on. Editorials,
letter, analysis...after a few days I was so fed up I vowed to
stop reading them. 'Cos as far as I am concerned this thing ain't
over until those bastards have stopped crawling through my field
and have gone home, and there's not a newspaper can do that for
me."
The differences between the Belfast Republicans and their country
cousins are several. For one thing, while involvement in Belfast
appears largely to be due to economics, i.e. the most IRA support
comes from the poor and the working class, it is much more
unpredictable out in the country. In Pomeroy, County Tyrone, one
very comfortably-off farmer explained how his family had been
fighting to expel the British for generations, and how he didn't
see how that would be effected no matter how many head of cattle
he owned.
One thing both groups have in common, however, is a determination
which is capricious but is yet immeasurably large. And
unfortunately, the factors which contribute to the military will
of the Republicans show no sign of letting up either.
One prime example of this was displayed the day before Christmas
Eve in a Belfast courtroom. The occasion was the trial of two
Royal Marine Commandos who were charged with the death of Fergal
Caraher of Cullyhanna, County Armagh. Caraher, a Sinn Fein
member, was shot dead and his brother wounded at an Army
roadblock. The death was the 337th 'disputed killing' by security
forces in the past 25 years. Of that number, there have been 13
prosecutions and only 2 convictions.
That last number would remain unchanged today, as the two Marines
were acquitted in the highly controversial case. The judge rules
that it was Fergal's reckless driving which led the Marines to
believe they were in danger and open fire. The family and friends
of the Marines screamed with joy when the verdict was delivered,
and the approximately 60 people on the other side of the room
walked out without a word, with Fergal Caraher's parents.
Of that group of 60, many were under the age of 20. Several were
young boys with slicked hair and flushed faces. As they filed out
of the room, one envisioned not generations of more meticulous
drivers but rather another made up of angry young men.
"This is what we have come to expect here," said Fergal Caraher's
father as the group boarded a bus to return to Cullyhanna, "I'm
not surprised, this is what we've come to expect."
***
No Place For Fathers
Hugh Jordan was 16 years old in 1958 and feeling lucky. Most of
his friends from Catholic West Belfast hadn't a chance of getting
work at the booming shipyards of Belfast. But he had an uncle on
the inside. The uncle, who got his shipyard job due to his World
War I stint with the British Army, arranges for Hughie's to be
interviewed.
The Protestant boys that Hughie knew worked alongside their
fathers in the docks and therefore didn't have to take the test,
but Hughie wasn't worried because he reckoned himself a smart
kid. But then came the interview.
"They asked me, 'Who is the Bishop of Canterbury?', 'Who won the
cricket championship?', I remember those two questions
distinctly, and there were others too,", said Hugh, a stout,
densely packed man of 52. "Needless to say, I failed."
Young Jordan joined the British Merchant Navy, a job which took
him to several places including America, where he remembers
fondly the docks along Manhattan's West Side. But he settled back
in West Belfast and raised a family. His resume is indicative of
an industriousness which defied discrimination--he has owned
several businesses, including a small hardware store and a
clothing store in the city centre, and he currently runs his own
catering business.
The Jordan's attractive , tidy home in Ballymurphy could easily
have been lifted out of a middle-class neighborhood in Long
Island or any other American suburb, except for a few minor
details. For one thing, the neighborhood is constantly patrolled
by machine gun-wearing British Army soldiers in full combat gear,
crouching through the Jordan's stamp sized front lawn and taking
cover in the door way. There is also a persistent thump-
thump=thump overhead from hovering Army helicopters. And one
thing more--there's an IRA commemoration plaque on the Jordan's
living room wall.
Hugh has never been arrested and has never been a member of the
IRA; the plaque is for his son Pearse, killed last year by
undercover British Army agents. Afterwards, the Irish Republican
Army announced that Pearse had been a member.
Hugh says that the announcement was only half a surprise. "He
never told me and I never knew," said Hugh. "But I had
suspicions. He would know better than to be telling people, and I
would know better than to ask. The less you know the better."
Pearse, 21, had been driving home from work on that day and
suddenly found himself sandwiched between two suspicious cars.
Panicking, he got out of his car as the men in the other two cars
did the same. He was shot in the back and died. He was unarmed.
The United Nations and Amnesty International are continuing to
investigate; no one has ever been charged.
Within days, the Jordans closed their clothes shop, which
overnight became a major target for Loyalist gunmen. That's when
the local catering business began. Now they stay mostly within a
few square miles of West Belfast.
Walking through Ballymurphy, Jordan explains how Pearse's
involvement was not unusual. "Every other young lad around here
and the girls too would want to join," he explained, "and many of
them have been involved in some way, even if only as a messenger
or a look-out. Most of them would have to be turned away, that's
how many there would be." For the modern IRA, safety comes in
small, tight numbers, and it's easy to see how their supply of
volunteers will perhaps never dry up.
"Naturally I was sad to see him go," says Hugh of Pearse, "but I
was happy to know that he had taken matters to hand, that he had
gone as a man."
One concern which remains for Hugh however is the rest of the
family, in particular, his other son, who is 14 years old. I a
few years, it's possible that he could follow the path of his
older brother. Does that bother Hugh?
"When the time comes it will be up to him," said Hugh. "I won't
encourage him but I won't discourage him either, and of course I
won't be asking. That won't be my place. That's something he'll
have to decide.
***
A Survivor's Story
Seamus McEldowney is a man who has suffered more than most due to
the fighting in Northern Ireland. Last March 25th, the County
Derry man had gotten a lift to work at his job with the Maghera
Fireplace construction company. As the van carrying he and four
of his workmates pulled up to the jobsite, another van, a blue
one, pulled alongside. Out popped three men wearing ski-masks and
brandishing handguns.
"I just started hearing shots," said McEldowney. "I was in the
front seat of the van between the driver and the passenger. I
looked to my left and saw Jimmy Kelly's face down, with blood
shooting out."
McEldowney jumped into the back of the van while the shots
continued. One gunman opened up the side of the sliding door and
started firing inside. Seamus, laying on his belly and screaming,
was grazed twice in the back of the head,and a bullet tore
through his right thigh.
After what seemed like "two or three hours," McEldowney raised
his head. The van was covered inn blood. His four co-workers were
shot to bits, all of them dead. The blue van sped away, and
after that Seamus was rushed to the hospital by people arriving
on the scene.
The next day, in another part of the same hospital, Seamus' wife
gave birth to their fourth child. "I am a very lucky man," he
says proudly, holding that child, Marie-Katherine, in his arms
at his home.
Still, McEldwoney has not been able to work since. He sees a
doctor one a week and a psychiatrist twice a week. The nightmares
have not stopped.
The van was targeted by the gunmen, Loyalist paramilitaries,
because Maghera Fireplace was perceived as a CAtholic company.
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1320.1 | VYGER::RENNISONM | One hundred and eeiigghhttyyyyy | Tue Feb 01 1994 07:16 | 15 | |
It's remarkable isn't it ? In the immediate aftermath of the declaration, when there did seem to be the faintest hope of peace, Mark H is deadly silent. For a few weeks, all that was required was for Sinn Fein to give the nod and there was maybe going to be chance. We all know what Sinn Fein's response has been - bugger all. Now that things are back to the way they were before Christmas (deaths on a sickeningly regular basis) Mark crawls out of the woodwork to tell us that the whole thing was a sham. It is ironic, yet predictable, that the only two parties who rejected the declaration were Gerry Adams' mob and Ian Paisley's mob. For two parties supposedly diametrically opposed to one another, they act with surprising similiarity. Both are pig-headed, depressinlgly stubborn and totally alien to the concept of compromise. Mark R. | |||||
| 1320.2 | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Tue Feb 01 1994 08:36 | 22 | ||
Sinn Fein has not rejected the proposal. They've
asked for clarification on a proposal that is filled
with inconsistencies and ambiquities. If you want to
talk about pig-headed, and stubborn, talk to a
government that was talking to Sinn Fein, then tries
to force their version of a "peace proposal" down
the throats of nationalists along with conditions on
talks about talks about talks, and then refuses to
talk any more to clarify either the document or their
contradictory statements on the document.
As I've said, the British government does not really
want peace, hence the conditions on talks about talks
about talks that it hopes will lead no where.
Mark
P.S.
By the way, MarkR, I've been a bit busy over the
last few weeks, hence the silence.
| |||||
| 1320.3 | ADISSW::SMYTH | Wed Feb 02 1994 18:42 | 40 | ||
re .0
>This was most evident by the front-page photograph of the Daily
>Mirror, Dec 16, which was carried in many other papers as well.
The Daily Mirror isn't called a tabloid paper for nothing. Mr Rohan
should try reading something above the level of the gutter press.
>"Ten men died in this prison," said O'Dowd, referring tothe 198
>hunger strike, "and a lot more died outside--we can't have them
>dying in vain."
So the North is to be subjected to another 25 years so strife and how many
more dead to glorify the memory of 10 men.
The prison scene could be from any high-security prison anywhere in the
world.
I find the glorification of a sniper rather sickening. He's certainly
not fighting for my Ireland.
>There are subtler forms of this rebellion, such as the outright
>glee expressed by people in one particular area who spoke of how
>the local welfare office was having computer problems, and was
>giving out two checks per week instead on one.
What a pathetic portrayal of the Nationalist community. Whining
money-grubbers, who accept welfare from their supposed arch-enemy.
Luckily not all Nationalists are of this stereo-type.
A survivor's story could just as easily have been written by a survivor
of an IRA car-jacking, where they hold your family hostage and force
you to drive a car-bomb into a security check-point. Just proves that
all terrorists are pathetic individuals. It certainly does'nt help the
"cause".
Come on Mark, you can do better than this rubbish to support Irish
nationalism.
Joe.
| |||||
| 1320.4 | VYGER::RENNISONM | One hundred and eeiigghhttyyyyy | Thu Feb 03 1994 07:25 | 22 | |
Tell me Mark, does anti-Catholic discrimination occur elsewhere in the world or just in Northern Ireland ? .0 answered a question I've asked you on many occasions before - where do the IRA get the money ? It's obvious now. Someone hacks into the DSS computer and everyone gets double dole cheques. The grateful locals hand over this unexpected windfall to the local IRA man (without threat of menaces of course) and everyones a winner. I remember once getting an extra �30 on my dole cheque when I was a student. I celebrated big time by getting totally drunk the following friday. Does this make me a dangerous insurrectionist ? I don't think so. I don't think you can girn anymore about the Queen giving medals to soldiers in Northern Ireland. You're piece of crap (.0) 'celebrating' this 'lone-wolf' character beats anything the royals ever did to honour British soldiers. I'd say that just about squares it. Your in total disgust...Mark R. | |||||
| 1320.5 | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Thu Feb 03 1994 09:11 | 7 | ||
re. .3
>I find the glorification of a sniper rather sickening. He's certainly
>not fighting for my Ireland.
No, British paratroopers are fighting for your Ireland.
Mark
| |||||
| 1320.6 | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Thu Feb 03 1994 09:15 | 9 | ||
re. .4
No, I've seen anti-Irish Catholic discrimination in
London as well.
Mark
| |||||
| 1320.7 | NOVA::EASTLAND | Thu Feb 03 1994 11:07 | 5 | ||
Let's hear more about this discrimination in London, Mark. How old were
you at the time now? 13 or 14 I believe. Where in London? Did some
nasty boys steal your pencil box and call you a paddy?
| |||||
| 1320.8 | Keep those blinkers on Mark... | ADISSW::SMYTH | Thu Feb 03 1994 11:50 | 17 | |
re .7
>>> re. .3
>I find the glorification of a sniper rather sickening. He's certainly
>not fighting for my Ireland.
>>>No, British paratroopers are fighting for your Ireland.
What do you base this on. If I find snipers to be the lowest form of
life then how do you make this brilliant leap of deduction. Not all Irish
nationalism is based at your level. Isn't it time to realise that the
"armed struggle" has gone beyond its usefulness and is now a hindrance
to peace and a solution to the problems of Northern Ireland. It's time
you faced reality.
Joe.
| |||||
| 1320.9 | TOPDOC::AHERN | Dennis the Menace | Thu Feb 03 1994 12:11 | 8 | |
RE: .4 by VYGER::RENNISONM
>Tell me Mark, does anti-Catholic discrimination occur elsewhere in the
>world or just in Northern Ireland ?
I remember signs of anti-Catholic bigotry when I lived with a
Scots Catholic family in Edinburgh in 1961.
| |||||
| 1320.10 | NOVA::EASTLAND | Thu Feb 03 1994 12:16 | 3 | ||
Actually, you'll find bigotry in good order all around the Globe.
| |||||
| 1320.11 | TOPDOC::AHERN | Dennis the Menace | Thu Feb 03 1994 12:20 | 6 | |
RE: .10 by NOVA::EASTLAND
>Actually, you'll find bigotry in good order all around the Globe.
Look, Eastie, I know it's not your favorite paper, but...
| |||||
| 1320.12 | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Thu Feb 03 1994 12:25 | 33 | ||
re. .8
You're absolutely right, it's high time that all
of the forces immediately sit down and talk at the
peace table. This includes the British army (and their
loyalist terror groups) as well as the IRA.
As Mr. Adams said, what's needed is demilitarization
of north east Ireland, and immediate negotiations for
a peaceful settlement.
Unfortunately the British do not wish this, hence
their refusal to immediately sit down at the peace
table. It's obvious from their pre-conditons,
and refusal to even explain their contradictory
statements, that the British do not want to see an
end to this. At least not an end that ever leads to
the Irish people as a whole deciding the future of
their island.
The reality of the situation is that until outside
economic and political pressure is brought to bear
on Britain, they will not be forced into immediately
sitting down at the peace table. In addition the
economic war that the IRA is waging will probably
be stepped up, to force the British back into
direct negotiations. Sadly it's probably going to
take a lot more force to bring the British immediately
to the peace table.
Mark
| |||||
| 1320.13 | NOVA::EASTLAND | Thu Feb 03 1994 12:39 | 2 | ||
Good one, Dennis
| |||||
| 1320.14 | KURMA::SNEIL | Thu Feb 03 1994 17:18 | 6 | ||
re .9 If you want to see a wee bit more than a sign of Religious
bigotry(on both sides) you should have stayed on a Glasgow housing scheme.
It's still there in force.
SCott
| |||||
| 1320.15 | NOVA::EASTLAND | Thu Feb 03 1994 17:34 | 3 | ||
.. or in certain areas of Nashua, NH for that matter..
| |||||
| 1320.16 | VYGER::RENNISONM | One hundred and eeiigghhttyyyyy | Fri Feb 04 1994 05:21 | 12 | |
Good. At least we agree that bigotry exists wherever you go. Now the next question, why should NI have it's bigotry treated any differently than elsewhere ? Do Catholics in Glasgow, Edinburgh, London or Nashua have any right to take up arms to fight this bigotry ? Would Mark Holohan support them if they did ? On a slightly different note - The Glasgow Herald reports today that the government is considering lifting the broadcasting restrictions on Sinn Fein. Not before time, in my opinion. Mark | |||||
| 1320.17 | Interview with Rory Nugent (Behind the lines with the IRA) | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Mon Jul 25 1994 17:17 | 313 | |
CNN
SHOW: Larry King Live 9:00 pm ET
July 18, 1994
Behind the Lines With the IRA
GUESTS: RORY NUGENT, "Spin" Magazine
The American reporter who got exclusive access to the elusive members of the
IRA shares some of his experiences and insights.
KING: 'Irish Republican Army Kills Belfast Woman and Dumps Her Body.'
'Protestant Militants Open Fire on a Predominantly Catholic Bar.' It's the
well-known news out of Northern Ireland this weekend. But just who does the
shooting, killing, and burning, is not so known. Members of the Irish
Republican Army specifically keep their IRA membership secret, even from their
own families. But our next guest got exclusive access to the elusive members of
this guerrilla force. His name is Rory Nugent, and he details his experiences
in the latest issue of Spin- Spin Magazine, rather, just as new hopes for peace
are on Northern Ireland's horizon. Sunday, Sinn Fein, the political wing of the
IRA, will meet to determine their position on the Anglo-Irish peace declaration.
Joining us in Washington is Rory Nugent, reporter-at-large for Spin Magazine.
How did you get on to this?
RORY NUGENT, 'Spin' Magazine: Actually, it was an assignment came out of Spin
Magazine.
KING: They said, 'Go infiltrate the IRA, take-'
Mr. NUGENT: Whoa, I'm not sure anyone can infiltrate the IRA.
KING: What did they ask you to do?
Mr. NUGENT: They asked me to see if I could get inside the IRA. So that means
you go over, you sit, you wait, and you try to figure out how you do get inside.
It's by invitation only. I'm not sure infiltrate-
KING: So you go as a reporter?
Mr. NUGENT: I go as a reporter. I go as a bald American. I stick out in the
Midlands.
KING: This is not an undercover story, then?
Mr. NUGENT: No, not at all.
KING: You are asking them what?
Mr. NUGENT: I am asking them for an inside look at only one side. I'm not
asking for a balanced British-IRA story. I was interested on what's ticking
inside that mask. Is it a time bomb? Who knows?
KING: You go to Belfast, right?
Mr. NUGENT: No, I stayed away from Belfast, originally. Too much competition.
My best shot, I thought, would be in the Midlands. So, I ended up in a small
market town in the middle of Northern Ireland, for six weeks.
KING: And, being a good reporter was the key, making the right friends?
Mr. NUGENT: It was indeed. And figuring out who to go to and how to get to
them.
KING: They allowed you to take a camera in?
Mr. NUGENT: They encouraged me to take a camera in.
KING: Why do they now want to tell what was previously not tellable, do you
think?
Mr. NUGENT: I think the story was tellable. But I think other reporters- I
had the luxury of time. I was on the story for four months and spent three
months pretty much waiting around, while the IRA vetting process took place.
And I think it got to the point where I became that pest. And it was like,
'Nugent, if you get the story, will you leave, and then go?' And it was, like,
that's the deal.
KING: What about the IRA has surprised you the most?
Mr. NUGENT: I think the thing that I come back with that resonates is how much
we- especially we as Americans- I speak now as born as an Irish-Catholic. And
other Americans romanticize the IRA, see them as something they're not, either
as these hard, cold-blooded terrorists, or hard-drinking and loose-minded and
not-well-thought-out individuals, who are hell bent on revenge. And, in fact, I
found a human story.
KING: The opposite of what you just described?
Mr. NUGENT: Just the opposite. I found people-
KING: Not hell-bent?
Mr. NUGENT: Determined, committed.
KING: Violent?
Mr. NUGENT: When they have to be, they're prepared. Violent, no. Don't smack
around their kids. Isn't allowed within the organization.
KING: Would they kill innocent children on the other side?
Mr. NUGENT: No. Certainly not within the calculations and strategies.
KING: Are you saying, Rory, they're getting a bum rap?
Mr. NUGENT: I'm saying- and I don't mean to apologize for the IRA; the record
speaks for them. Innocent victims have been killed. What I am suggesting,
though- and I can only speak about what I know - which would be the last three
years of strategy, of IRA strategy - is that civilians, when they are involved,
the operation is to be called off. When civilians have died in operations
involving the IRA, it's due to blunder and human error. Is there an excuse for
that? I don't know.
KING: Do they try to weed out fanatics?
Mr. NUGENT: I would say there's a conscious effort in the recruitment process
to weed out any type of what was described to me as a psycho. The IRA, cold,
calculated, think, think, think. No. Anger, hatred, if it's determined to be
inside any IRA- any IRA individual, male or female, or to blossom in that
individual, out they go.
KING: Let's see some of the tapes. You had a video camera, is that it?
Mr. NUGENT: I had a video camera, and- this took place in Belfast. It's
Saturday night at the disco. Everybody is converged for a good time. And the
IRA is coming in to make a rare appearance. The IRA is one of the few
organizations in the world that doesn't fear anonymity. So now they're making a
statement. And you'll see one individual now climb to the stage, and he's
going to be reading a statement from IRA headquarters, which asks civilians,
and especially parents, to stop children from holding on to the back of British
army trucks, like skateboarders or bicylists- bicycle messengers in the city
here.
Several mortar attacks on British army trucks have had to have been aborted
because of civilians - just what we were talking about before - in the
proximity of that area. So, they have endangered the lives of the IRA men.
And this individual right now, who I will name Martin, I met later on. And,
we can't hear Martin, but he is in a fearful race to finish. You can see the
papers shake in his hands. He's terrified. And a month later, I met him in the
field, and his poise is rock-solid, as he's aiming an AK-47 on a British
target. And I said, 'What's the deal? You were scared and fearful.' He said, 'W
ar,
I know what I'm doing. I can take that. Public speaking, never again.
Scared me blue.'
KING: That crowd was pro-him, right?
Mr. NUGENT: That crowd was pro-IRA.
KING: We'll be back with Rory Nugent. The new issue of Spin Magazine has the
article, 'Inside the IRA.' We'll include some of your phone calls, after this.
[Commercial break]
KING: You present a plus side, Rory. How about all the minuses? How about all
the killings? How about all the violence? How about all the terror that this
organization has been responsible for, which can't be denied.
Mr. NUGENT: It can't be denied. I'd be the last person to apologize for a
terrorist organization.
KING: This is not an apologetic article?
Mr. NUGENT: I don't think so. I think it's an inside, realistic look at what
the IRA and who they are.
KING: But they wanted to look good through you, didn't they?
Mr. NUGENT: I think they presented themselves- in many times throughout my stay,
I was sure I was being fed the company line, especially in questions about
anger and hatred, knowing that, you know, a 25-year-old member of the IRA has
never been- is unable to form a memory of peace. He or she can't. They've
grown up in that.
KING: Do you think they might sign on to this peace accord?
Mr. NUGENT: I'm convinced, if the setting is proper at the peace table, they'll
oblige.
KING: They will? Because, aren't they kind of tired of this already? I mean,
it's-
Mr. NUGENT: It's been 25 years. It's weary. They're in it. They're committed.
But, one of the things I- I think that I took back with me, because everybody
mentioned it - whether it was the O.C. or whether it was a volunteer or a raw
recruit - was children. They had such a rotten childhood themselves, and
they're now at the age where either you have kids, or are thinking about having
kids, they don't want to do nothing, anything else, but.
KING: How many children on both sides of this have been killed already? A lot
of children.
Mr. NUGENT: Too many.
KING: Let's get in some calls for Rory Nugent. Toronto. Hello.
8th CALLER: [Toronto, Ontario] Hi. It's Janice here. My question was, after
spending six weeks in Northern Ireland - I'm Irish myself, actually. I'm from
southern Ireland - what were your views, in respect to the whole Anglo-Irish
agreement? Do you think-
KING: Yeah, what do you think of it? Good question. What do you think, Rory?
Mr. NUGENT: I think the agreement is a wonderful, obscure document. I think
it's an example of bad protean language. It doesn't get to the points that
need to be debated and need to be both questioned and answered to have this
end.
And I think that's up to the British. And the British should put it on the
table. And, I also believe that it's important that the British stop talking
at. I mean, it's as polite and basic as a conversation, rather than talking at
somebody. Nobody likes that.
KING: And, what would your critique of the IRA be?
Mr. NUGENT: The IRA should come up with a plan that they will oblige. What
kind of a timetable, exactly, are they looking for? What kind of a quid pro
quo are they looking for, in regards to the British leaving?
KING: You're asking for specifics?
Mr. NUGENT: I want specifics. And I think that's what's important and that's
what it's come down to. And there won't be peace, as long as everyone starts
talking with big sentences with semicolons.
KING: Lewisburg, West Virginia. Hello.
9th CALLER: [Lewisburg, West Virginia] Hello. I have a question for Mr. Nugent.
In the video, I saw some very sophisticated small arms. Looked like Rumanian
Kalashnikovs. With the gun laws what they are in England, how do they
obtain such sophisticated firearms?
Mr. NUGENT: I think through almost any channel that any rebel army does get
their gear.
KING: -his description of their arms?
Mr. NUGENT: There was Kalashnikovs. There are AK-47s. It's the rebel army's
favorite weapon. You can drop it, you can put it in the dirt, and the thing
still works, and Browning 9-millimeter. And there are also Uzis in
evidence in the disco scene.
KING: We'll be back with Rory Nugent. The new issue of Spin Magazine has this
article, 'Inside the IRA.' Don't go away.
[Commercial break]
KING: Quick call. Los Angeles. Hello.
10th CALLER: [Los Angeles, California] Hello, Larry.
KING: Hi.
10th CALLER: [Los Angeles, California] I'd like to say, first, I enjoy your
show. Great show.
KING: Thank you.
10th CALLER: [Los Angeles, California] The gentleman, I think, has been taken
off the garden path. To start with, I'm from Ireland-
KING: We only got a minute, so go ahead.
10th CALLER: [Los Angeles, California] OK. It is literally impossible for
any-any of the operatives to take you under your wings, simply because, in that
neck of the wood, you've got the UDF. You've also got the special branch.
And if those lads heard someone was looking, an American reporter, with a
camera, to get a hold of the IRA, you're lucky you weren't knee-capped,
mate. Goodnight.
KING: Rory- OK. Tough guy, there. Lucky you weren't knee-capped. I like that
term. Go ahead.
Mr. NUGENT: Yes. But, as the gentleman who called in probably knows, Belfast
Royal Hospital is the best in reconstructive knee surgery from practice, of
any place in the world. I spent four months on this assignment. And it took a
long time for me to get inside. It wasn't easy. The IRA picked the places
that they-
KING: Were you a little scared?
Mr. NUGENT: Sure.
KING: We're out of time, Rory. Anxious to read this. Thank you very much for
joining us.
Mr. NUGENT: My pleasure.
KING: Rory Nugent. The article is in Spin Magazine. It's 'Inside the IRA.'
That's tonight's edition of Larry King Live.
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| 1320.18 | FUTURS::GIDDINGS_D | Tue Jul 26 1994 06:38 | 9 | ||
> years of strategy, of IRA strategy - is that civilians, when they are involved,
> the operation is to be called off.
Sure. They would never expect civilians to be involved when they let
off a bomb in a waste bin in a busy shopping precinct.
Are all Americans naive enough to swallow this dross?
Dave
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| 1320.19 | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Tue Jul 26 1994 09:49 | 6 | ||
re. .18
The deaths of civilians does little to enhance any
Army's stature, British or Irish Republican.
Mark
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| 1320.20 | NOVA::EASTLAND | Wed Jul 27 1994 00:49 | 6 | ||
Well, the IRA's goal seems to be little but the death of civilians,
dearest Mark. Now you _did_ appluad the baltic exchange bombing didn;t
you, as the act of brave freedom fighters taking out an economic target.
Don't play coy lad.
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| 1320.21 | KOALA::HOLOHAN | Wed Jul 27 1994 09:54 | 11 | ||
re. .20
"Well, the IRA's goal seems to be little but the
death of civilians,"
Sure, they've been fighting for the last 25 years
to ensure the deaths of civilians. Go back to
sleep, you've been fed too much British tabloid
press.
Mark
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| 1320.22 | NOVA::EASTLAND | Wed Jul 27 1994 22:07 | 6 | ||
You finally got that right, Mark. I know you meant it to sound
disdainful but I'm afraid that's just an illustration of how out to
lunch you are, that you truly aren't even aware that in an attempt at
sarcasm you have hit upon the truth.
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| 1320.23 | the pot calling the kettle black....... | AYOV25::FSPAIN | I'm the King of Wishful Thinking | Thu Jul 28 1994 13:23 | 5 |
re .21
I wouldn't say your diet is anything to write home about either !!
F.
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