Conference tallis::celt

    
    Bernie: I haven't seen much in the papers recently about this case.
    
            I'll keep watch for any updates.
    
    
    
    keVin
    

    In view of all the questions that the INS ask applicants on the form
    for the visa about membership of subversive organisations, crime, use
    of illegal substances etc. , not to mention health, its any wonder that
    they want to deport the guy. With a wife and kids already in the States
    though they may have to reconsider, aren't husbands of U.S citizens
    eliglble for residence in the U.S ?
    
    Ironic,isn't it, how the choice of a passport can make life easier for a
    person to enter the Land of the Free, if he had chosen an Irish
    passport , always assuming that such a choice would preclude him from
    obtaining a British one, he would have to apply for a visa and have
    difficulty getting into the States in the first place.( NI residents are
    entitled to obtain Irish passports. ) This only goes to show how stupid
    the law is regarding discriminatory treatment of Portugal and Ireland
    in requiring visas to enter the U.S while other members of the E.C do
    not. Many members of both countries can reside in their better treated
    neighbours for a while without hindrance, maybe get a passport for that
    country, then they can walk into the U.S. ( E.C citizens have unlimited
    rights of access for work and social purposes to all other member
    states of the E.C ).
    My argument is that foreign countries should treat all citizens of the
    E.C equally and not discriminate against some of them.
    

    re -1             <<< Note 1235.2 by MACNAS::JDOOLEY "Week 1 Dec 1993" >>>
    
    >My argument is that foreign countries should treat all citizens of the
    >E.C equally and not discriminate against some of them.
    
    What's your problem mate? I've already told you in a previous note that
    a lot of Irish people have over-stayed their visas and have therefore
    spoiled it for others. 
    
    Why should the USA treat all European citizens equally ? What's so special 
    about Europe ? Why not extend that to "treat all World citizens equally". 
    
    Why can't you grasp the idea that some Irish people stay in the US 
    illegally so the US govt. have to protect themselves from other Irish 
    people doing the same.
    
    Tony.

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- A federal judge ruled Thursday that a suspected
IRA terrorist convicted of trying to kill a British police officer needs
special medical care and ordered him freed on $1.5 million bail.
	U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Caulfield considered the testimony
of three doctors before agreeing to release James Smyth, who was being
held in federal custody pending a hearing on an extadition request by
the British government.
	``Their (the U.S. Marshal's Service and San Francisco County Jail
officials) job is managing prison populations, not delivering medical
care,'' Caulfield said. ``I find that Mr. Smyth fulfills all the
criteria for special circumstances and order him released on bail.''
	Smyth, who escaped from a British prison a decade ago, has been
suffering from an undetermined illness since February that has resulted
in blood and protein being present in his urine. Two of the three
doctors recommended Smyth see a kidney specialist.
	U.S. Attorney Mark Zanides's request for a seven-day stay of the
order and petitioned that Smyth be told to immediately seek medical
care. Caulfield denied both motions.
	When asked if he would ask the federal appeals court to overrule
Caulfield, Zanides answered with a terse ``no comment.''
	As Caulfield announced her decision, Smyth's supporters erupted into
cheers and applause. Many had put up their homes and belongings to
guarantee his bail.
	Outside the federal building, Smyth said he was concerned about his
medical condition.
	``There is no pain yet, but who knows?'' he said. ``I want to find
out what's wrong with me. I am bleeding internally.''
	Smyth also felt his battle to win the right to bail has been made
more difficult at the request of the British government.
	``I'm not a flight risk or danger to anyone,'' he said. ``I believe
the British government just wants me held in jail. They don't want
anyone to bring to the public's attention their 'shoot to kill' policy.''
	Smyth's attorney, Karen Snell, asked Caulfield to order the British
government to produce files that allegedly would have detailed the 
``shoot to kill'' policy in Northern Ireland.
	The British refused, citing state security. Caulfield scolded the
British for the refusal, but allowed the extradition proceedings to
continue.
	Caulfield said she would reconsider Smyth's release after he sees a
kidney specialist. The extradition hearing has also been placed on hold.
	Smyth was convicted of attempted murder for trying to kill a British
police officer in Northern Ireland in 1983. British authorities claim
Smyth is a member of the outlawed Irish Republican Army.
	He was among 38 inmates who broke out of Maze Prison in Northern
Ireland in 1983. He fled to San Francisco, where he had been living a
quiet life under an assumed name for several years.
	Smyth was arrested last year and charged with obtaining a U.S.
passport under an assumed name. He pleaded guilty and sentenced to time
served.
	Two fellow Maze escapees -- Paul Brennan and Kevin Barry Artt -- are in
federal custody in San Francisco on similar passport charges. The
British government has asked that they also be extradited.

    
    
    Smyth's bail has been revoked.
    
    
    According to this weeks Irish Echo Newspaper a 2 to 1 Appeals Court
    decision overturned a bail ruling by Federal Court Judge Barbara A.
    Caufield.
    
    The US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit Court ruled that there
    was insufficient evidence to back up Smyth's release for treatment of
    a kidney complaint.
    
    

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- Jimmy Smyth lived a quiet life as a house
painter in San Francisco's Sunset District for eights years. Few who
knew him were aware of the dark secret hidden in the deep within the man
they called James Lynch.
	Smyth was a fugitive hiding under an assumed name -- on the run ever
since 1983 when he broke out of the infamous Maze Prison in Belfast,
Northern Ireland with 37 others. He was considered an Irish nationalist,
likely a member of the outlawed Irish Republican Army.
	On Monday, the federal government, on behalf of Great Britain, will
open an extradition hearing in San Francisco federal court to deport
Smyth back to his Maze Prison cell to serve out a jail term for
attempting to kill a prison official.
	The proceeding will be the initial test of a new extradition treaty
between the two countries, which allows the United States to refuse the
return a criminal who faces racial or political persecution.
	Defense attorney Karen Snell says that's exactly what she'll prove
calling several Irish and British politicians to the stand including
fiery Bernadette Devlin McAlisky and families who have lost members to
the religious violence in North Ireland.
	Snell says: ``I intend to put Great Britain and its policies in
Northern Ireland on trial.''
	The federal government, having settled its false passport charge
against Smyth with a time served sentence, says it will prove there is
no prosecution awaiting Smyth.
	Whatever the outcome, court watchers believe the Smyth hearing will
define the new treaty.
	``The case is extremely significant because it is likely to set a
tone for how U.S. courts apply the treaty to people from Northern
Ireland,'' said Patty Blum, a University of California law professor.
	Smyth was arrested by the FBI in June of 1992 outside his home in San
Francisco's heavily-Irish Sunset District. His secret came to light when
fellow escapee John Barry Artt applied for a used-car salesman's license
in San Diego.
	A routine fingerprint check revealed he was a wanted Maze Prison
escapee. The FBI discovered that Artt made his way to San Francisco with
Smyth through the Irish underground. There the two men filed for U.S.
passports using the names of deceased twins -- Kevin Thomas and Patrick
Joseph Kohane.
	Artt was also taken into custody and is locked up in San Francisco
awaiting his case to begin. A third escapee, Paul Brennan, was captured
later in Berkeley. He also is awaiting the outcome of Smyth's hearing.
	The road to Monday's hearing has been filled with drama. Smyth was
released from county jail last month when it was discovered he was
bleeding internally. However, a federal appeals court ordered back to
detainment several days later.
	When a defense request for government document detailing dealing with
the loyalist hit squads in Northern Ireland was denied by the British
under the cloak of national security, U.S. District Court Judge Barbara
Caulfield threatened to throw the case out of court.
	However, she relented slightly, chosing to scold the British
government for stonewalling and ruling that there was the presumption of
religious persecution in the case, making the federal attorney's job all
that more difficult.
	Caulfield also has said she finds ``serious questions about the
validity'' of Smyth's conviction in Northern Ireland.
	Smyth was arrested on June 28, 1977 for the attempted murder of
Belfast Prison official John Ainsley Carlisle. Two men came to
Carlisle's house and shot at him before fleeing.
	Smyth was arrested a short distance away after he ran from police. He
said he ran because the officer approached him with a drawn gun and he
thought he was going to be killed.
	The extradition trial is expected to last several weeks.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT) writes:
Path: jac.nuo.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!looking!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT)
Newsgroups: clari.news.fighting,clari.news.law.crime.violent,clari.news.politics,clari.news.europe,clari.local.sfbay
Subject: Official refuses comment about Northern Ireland shoot-to-kill policy
Keywords: fighting, violent crime, legal, political extremists, politics
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-Supersedes: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 16:01:32 PDT
Location: ulster
ACategory: usa
Slugword: us-ira
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 582/540; Id: z5200; Sel: xxnfg; Adate: 9-28-N/A; Ver: 2/5; V: 2ndld-writhru
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: ynfgrxx., ynlxrxx., ynpxrul., xxxxxxxx
Note: (testimony done for day, quotes, details)
Lines: 55
Xref: jac.nuo.dec.com clari.news.fighting:4151 clari.news.law.crime.violent:3374 clari.news.politics:6083 clari.news.europe:5825 clari.local.sfbay:2858

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- A top British government official refused
Tuesday to answer questions about internal investigations that concluded
law enforcement personnel followed an ``unwritten policy'' of shooting
suspected Irish Republican Army members in Northern Ireland.
	In his second day of testimony in support of his government's request
for the extradition of a fugitive Irish nationalist, Undersecretary of
State for Northern Ireland John Chilcot stated repeatedly that he was 
``not authorized to make any comment'' about the internal
investigations.
	The British government has turned down requests for access to the
official reports filed by Jimmy Smyth, who escaped from Maze Prison in
1983 and lived under an assumed name in San Francisco until 1991.
	Smyth, who was suspected of being an IRA member, is seeking to remain
in the United States under an exception to this country's extradition
agreement with Great Britain for fugitives who would face political or
religious persecution upon return.
	Under cross-examination from Smyth's attorney, Karen Snell, Chilcot
said offical harassment of the fugitive would be illegal, but conceded
being unable to guarantee his safety.
	Snell said she thought prosecutors were ``in trouble'' because
Chilcot could not give assurances about safety and refused to answer
questions about three internal investigations into alleged misconduct by
security agencies.
	``Even if we were in a position that we could move for dismissal,
we'll think twice before we do that,'' Snell said. ``Our goal is to have
the American people hear both sides of the story.''
	Chilcot, taking the stand for the second day of cross-examination by
Snell, again denied that security forces in Northern Ireland had a
shoot-to-kill policy towards suspected Irish Republican Army members or
engaged in collusion with loyalist terrorist squads.
	He said he was familiar with the results of the three investigations
but refused to divulge the findings.
	Snell read to the court from a published summary of one of the
reports that concluded security officers had ``a clear understanding''
that they were expected to shoot-to-kill suspected terrorists.
	She said 346 people had been killed by police in Northern Ireland,
mostly Catholics identified as being suspected members of paramilitary
organizations. Chilcot said he could not confirm that number.
	The undersecretary did say that just under $2 billion a year was
being spent on security in Northern Ireland, a country with a population
of 1.5 million.
	Smyth has five years remaining on a 20-year sentence for the
attempted murder of a prison official. He was considered to be an Irish
nationalist, likely a member of the outlawed IRA.
	He contends his conviction was tainted and has attacked the justice
system in Northern Ireland, which permits trials of suspected terrorists
without juries and allows unsworn testimony from government witnesses.
	Smyth escaped from Northern Ireland's notorious Maze Prison as part
of a mass breakout in 1983.
	Two other Maze escapees have been found in California since 1991 and
are awaiting a similar hearing.
	U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Caulfield, who has already granted
Smyth a ``presumption'' that he would be subject to persecution in
Northern Ireland, is expected to decide by November whether he qualifies
for asylum.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (UPI) writes:
Path: jac.nuo.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!wupost!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.local.california,clari.news.terrorism,clari.local.sfbay
Subject: Military forces maintain high profile in Northern Ireland
Keywords: non-usa government, government, criminal proceedings, legal,
	terrorism
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 14:33:54 PDT
Location: california
ACategory: regional
Slugword: ca-ira
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 195/175; Id: z4705; Sel: cangf; Adate: 9-30-N/A; Ver: 2/0
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: &ngfrca., &nlarca., &nz.rca., tsza....
Lines: 18
Xref: jac.nuo.dec.com clari.local.california:11379 clari.news.terrorism:1564 clari.local.sfbay:2878

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- A commander of British military forces in
Northern Ireland testified Thursday that soldiers often point weapons at
unarmed citizens in the predominantly Catholic Argoyne neighborhood of
Belfast.
	The revelation by Brig. Gen. Alistair Irwin, head of the British
Army's 39th Infantry Brigade, came after another British official denied
the military played such a high profile role in Northern Ireland.
	Irwin was the third government witness in the hearing of the British
request to extradite Irish nationalist Jimmy Smyth, who escaped from a
Northern Ireland prison in 1983 and was found living under an assumed
name in San Franciso two years ago.
	Smyth is seeking to remain in the U.S. under an exception to this
country's extradition treaty with Britain for fugitives facing political
or religious persecution at home.
	Irwin said the British Army did not discriminate against Irish
nationalists as a matter of policy, but declined to answer questions
posed by Smyth's attorney, Karen Snell, about covert operations or
specific shootings involving soldiers.

******************************************************************************

    
    
    I think the article contains a typo ...
    
    
    The area is Ardoyne.  (not Argoyne)
    
    
    
    keVin
    

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (UPI) writes:
Path: jac.nuo.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!parc!lll-winken.llnl.gov!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.local.california,clari.news.terrorism,clari.local.sfbay
Subject: Famed Irish activist testifies in extradition case
Keywords: criminal proceedings, legal, terrorism
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 16:40:32 PDT
Location: california
ACategory: regional
Slugword: ca-ira
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 407/381; Id: z5624; Sel: canla; Adate: 10-4-N/A; Ver: 0/1; V: 1stld-writethru
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: ynlarca., ynz-rca., tsza....
Note: (writethru -- adding details, quotes)
Lines: 37
Xref: jac.nuo.dec.com clari.local.california:11522 clari.news.terrorism:1614 clari.local.sfbay:2916

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- Former Member of Parliament and pro-
independence activist Bernadette Devlin McAliskey told a federal court
judge Monday that someone threatened to kill her last week if she
testified on behalf of a fugitive Irish nationalist fighting to remain
in the U.S.
	McAliskey, who served two terms in the British Parliament from 1969-
73, said the threat was similar to one she received in 1981, days before
she and her husband were shot in their home by loyalist paramilitaries.
McAliskey charged that security forces guarding her home permitted the
would-be assassins to enter.
	McAliskey is the first witness to appear on behalf of Jimmy Smyth,
the Maze Prison escapee who lived in San Franciso for seven years before
being recaptured in 1991. Smyth has asked that he not be returned to
Britain under an excaption for fugitives facing political or religious
persecution at home.
	Federal Judge Barbara Caulfield warned prosecutors months ago she
would not tolerate threats against defense witnesses. She could assess a
penalty of some kind against the government if she orders an
investigation into the threat and finds British authorities involved.
	McAliskey also gave emotional testimony about the deaths of friends
she believed were caused or acquiesced in by British authorities and
about the constant military presence in predominately Catholic areas of
Northern Ireland.
	``Never a day goes past that at least 20 young people will get
stopped and searched,'' McAliskey said. ``Young people no longer make
complaints unless they get physically injured.''
	She said she drove through a loyalist area of Northern Ireland last
week and was surprised to see no police or soldiers on the streets.
	``I thought I was in a different country,'' McAliskey said.
	Caulfield overruled frequent objections to McAliskey's testimony from
Assistant U.S. Attorney Mark Zanides, who represents the British
government under the terms of the treaty.
	The government completed its case Monday with the testimony of the
governor of the Maze Prison and a British constable. Gov. John Baxter
said there were ``no excuses'' for the brutal treatment of other Maze
Prison escapees who have been recaptured but acknowledged that he could
not guarantee Smyth's safety if the nationalist were returned to prison.

******************************************************************************

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT) writes:
Path: jac.nuo.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT)
Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.gov.usa,clari.news.europe,clari.news.law.crime.violent,clari.local.sfbay
Subject: Devlin defends IRA violence
Keywords: non-usa government, government, international, usa federal,
	violent crime, legal
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Supersedes: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 15:13:11 PDT
Location: great britain
ACategory: usa
Slugword: us-ira
Priority: regular
Format: daily, regular
ANPA: Wc: 543/513; Id: z4423; Sel: xxngf; Adate: 10-5-N/A; Ver: 1/3; V: 1stld-writethru
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: yngfdxx., yigwrgb., ynlxdxx., xxxxxxxx
Note: (updating, adding quotes, details)
Lines: 53
Xref: jac.nuo.dec.com clari.news.gov.international:19564 clari.news.gov.usa:7043 clari.news.europe:6011 clari.news.law.crime.violent:3464 clari.local.sfbay:2932

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- Fiery activist Bernadette Devlin McAliskey
defended violence by members of the outlawed Irish Republican Army in
Northern Ireland during an extradition proceeding Tuesday for an IRA
member seeking asylum in the United States.
	McAliskey, a former member of the British Parliament who once served
six months in jail for her participation in nationalist activities, gave
a second day of moving testimony about life under colonial rule in
Northern Ireland in support of Maze Prison escapee Jimmy Smyth.
	``Nationalist areas are swamped with security check points,'' she
said. ``You can't walk down the street without walking into or stepping
over a British soldier in a nationalist area. In loyalist areas, you
don't see that.''
	Smyth is fighting the British government's extradition request by
trying to prove he would be subject to persecution on religious or
political grounds if he was returned to Northern Ireland.
	Smyth entered the United States illegally after escaping from
Belfast's Maze Prison, and he lived under an assumed name in San
Francisco for seven years until his capture in 1991.
	Under cross-examination by a federal prosecutor, McAliskey said the
IRA's activities were a response to the ``violence'' of British
authorities in suspending civil liberties and forcing large numbers of
Northern Ireland's Catholic minority to live in poverty.
	``The last violent act in a very long cycle is when the people on the
bottom strike back,'' McAliskey said. ``That's not when the violence
starts, but that's when the people in charge like to say the violence
starts.''
	McAliskey accused the British government of ``using the Catholic
community as shields for their security forces'' by adopting a 
``deliberate'' policy of locating police and military installations
alongside churches, hospital and schools to discourage terrorist
attacks.
	McAliskey also said the ``best chance'' for prisoners released from
detention was to emigrate illegally into the United States, like Smyth
did in 1984.
	The defense also called Father Joseph McVeigh, a Catholic priest
known in Northern Ireland for defending the rights of former prisoners,
who testified about police harassment of nationalists.
	He said members of Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA, were
targets for violence at the hands of security forces.
	``I've seen with my own eyes Sinn Fein members stopped and beaten on
the side of the road,'' McVeigh said. ``It is my opinion that Sinn Fein
members are in grave danger'' in Northern Ireland.
	Smyth admits to being a member of Sinn Fein but has denied any
affiliation with the armed wing of the IRA.
	U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Caulfield ruled Tuesday the
government would have to prove by a preponderence of the evidence that
Smyth would not face persecution if he were returned.
	The ruling clarified the meaning of a ``presumption'' granted Smyth
as a penalty for the British government's refusal to turn over documents
he requested. It was seen as a victory for Smyth because it requires
prosecutors to do more than merely present evidence rebutting the
presumption.
 ccccqqe

    I wonder if Mr. Holohan will post a report of the testimony I heard
    about on Radio 4 this morning. To whit, one Sinn Fein councillor, whose
    name I missed, Barry Cullen or similar, who said under oath that he
    believed the IRA was morally justified in killing politicians,
    policemen and army personnel (to name a few from a long list). It
    appears he went to some lengths to claim that the IRA's murderous
    behaviour is actually, justified.
    
    Post that one then Mr. Holohan, I'd love to hear the "truth" about his
    comments.
    
    Laurie.

Path:
jac.nuo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!looking!c
clarinews
From: [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT)
Newsgroups:
clari.news.law.crime.trial,clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.europe,clari.
.local.sfbay
Subject: Tearful testimony at IRA trial
Keywords: criminal proceedings, legal, non-usa government, government
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Supersedes: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 17:02:07 PDT
Location: ulster
ACategory: usa
Slugword: us-ira
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 363/359; Id: z4817; Sel: xxnla; Adate: 10-6-N/A; Ver: 2/3
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: ynlarxx., yngfrul., xxxxxxxx, //nl--a/
Lines: 34
Xref: jac.nuo.dec.com clari.news.law.crime.trial:2537
clari.news.gov.international:19703 clari.news.europe:6054
clari.local.sfbay:2956

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- Three Northern Ireland residents gave tearful
testimony Wednesday, claiming members of their immediate families and
close friends had been killed by British security forces for no apparent
reason.
	The often-emotional testimony of Peter Caraher, Brendan Curran and
Johnny Marshall brought the violence in Northern Ireland into personal
focus during the third day of the trial of a fugitive member of the
outlawed Irish Republican Army fighting extradition to Britain.
	Jimmy Smyth, who was found living under an assumed name in San
Francisco eight years after participating in a mass escape from the
notorious Maze Prison in 1983, is seeking to remain in the United States
under an exception to the extradition treaty with England for fugitives
facing political or religious persecution if returned.
	Caraher, a Republican activist, said his two sons were shot, one
fatally, by British soldiers in 1990 even though they were not charged
with any crime.
	He said his home has been repeatedly searched since then by soldiers,
who have adopted a dominating presence in Northern Ireland since a state
of emergency was declared in 1969 and abolished three years later.
	``All the young people in our area would never have seen the inside
of a prison or even known what a gun was if the British weren't there,''
he said. ``There is only one answer to the whole problem -- the removal
of the British.''
	Federal Judge Barbara Caulfield also heard testimony Wednesday from
Brendan Curran, whose girlfriend was killed by security forces.
	Curran told the court that members of the IRA were not the terrorists
they often are portrayed as.
	``The IRA are not terriorists, they are soldiers in a state of war,''
he said. ``The word terrorist does not apply.''
	All three witnesses said they feared retaliation from loyalists when
they return to Northern Ireland and their testimony becomes known.
	``It's a question of what you believe to be right and just,'' said
Curran when asked why he took the risk of coming to America to testify.
``And what you give up for your own safety.''

    VNS MAIN NEWS:                                     [Tom Povey, VNS UK News Desk]
    ==============                                     [Reading, England]
    
        Here is the News at 07:00 BST on Friday 8-Oct-1993
        --------------------------------------------------
        UK News
        -------
       
    The Labour MP Ken Livingston has told a court in San Francisco
    that British troops have a "shoot to kill" policy in Northern Ireland
    which is condoned by the British government. He is giving evidence in the
    trial of a convicted IRA man who escaped from jail in Belfast and who
    Britain wants to extradite.

    Can anyone give an update on this trial ?
    
    Is it still in progress or is it finished and if so what was the
    outcome ?

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT) writes:
Path: jac.zko.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (NATHAN SALANT)
Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.law.crime.violent,clari.news.europe,clari.local.sfbay,biz.clarinet.sample
Followup-to: biz.clarinet.sample
Subject: Judge asks for inquiry in IRA case
Keywords: international, non-usa government, government, violent crime,
	legal
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 16:05:33 PDT
Location: great britain, western europe
ACategory: usa
Slugword: us-ira
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 372/351; Id: z5262; Sel: xxigf; Adate: 10-26-N/A; Ver: 1/2
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: yigfrxx., ynlxrgb., yilxrxw., xxxxxxxx
Lines: 35
Xref: jac.zko.dec.com clari.news.gov.international:21252 clari.news.law.crime.violent:3749 clari.news.europe:6618 clari.local.sfbay:3158 biz.clarinet.sample:2620

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- A federal judge presiding over a fugitive Irish
terrorist's fight against extradition ordered an official inquiry
Tuesday into allegations British security forces spied on members of the
defense team during their visits to Northern Ireland.
	U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Caulfield gave prosecutors 14 days
to obtain an official response from the British government to charges
that Federal Public Defender Karen Snell and other investigators were
followed and their local contacts harassed during fact-finding visits in
1992-93.
	The order came on the day Jimmy Smyth's defense rested its case in
the well-publicized extradition trial.
	Smyth, an escapee from Northern Ireland's Maze Prison who was found
living in San Francisco in 1991, is seeking to remain in the United
States under an exception to the extradition treaty with England for
fugitives facing political or religious persecution at home.
	He was serving a 20-year sentence for attempted murder when he
escaped from prison with 36 others. Smyth has challenged his conviction
as unjust and denies being a member of the outlawed Irish Republican
Army.
	``If any members of the defense team were followed, this court would
like to know why,'' said Caulfield, who has previously threatened to
impose judicial sanctions if any witnesses in the controversial case
were threatened. ``The integrity of the court is at stake.''
	Caulfield told Assistant U.S. Attorney Mark Zanides, who is
representing the British government as required by the treaty, that the
response would not be released to the public.
	Smyth rested his case after testimony from Joe Quinn, a law clerk who
told of harassment during two visits to Northern Ireland, and Jane
Winter, a member of a human rights advocacy group.
	Zanides began his rebuttal case Tuesday by calling a police inspector
who testified that security force members are taught to treat all
members of the public with respect.
	Inspector Daniel Brennan was called to dispute testimony from a score
of defense witnesses who testified that security forces were prejudiced
against pro-independence Irish Catholics.

*******************************************************************************

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (UPI) writes:
Path: jac.zko.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!looking!clarinews
From: [email protected] (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.news.gov.international,clari.news.law.crime.violent,clari.local.sfbay,biz.clarinet.sample
Followup-to: biz.clarinet.sample
Subject: Interrogation methods defended
Keywords: non-usa government, government, violent crime, legal
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 15:57:37 PDT
ACategory: usa
Slugword: us-ira
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 480/431; Id: z6092; Sel: xxngf; Adate: 10-28-N/A; Ver: 3/2; V: 1stld-writethru
Approved: [email protected]
Codes: yngfrxx., ynlxrxx., xxxxxxxx, txia....
Note: (writethru -- adding quotes, details)
Lines: 47
Xref: jac.zko.dec.com clari.news.gov.international:21487 clari.news.law.crime.violent:3792 clari.local.sfbay:3205 biz.clarinet.sample:2663

	SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- A top British law enforcement official Thursday
justified harsh interrogation methods used to elicit confessions from
Irish nationalists accused of violating anti-terrorism laws in Northern
Ireland.
	Testifying in support of his government's effort to extradite a
fugitive linked to the outlawed Irish Republican Army, Detective
Superintendent Robert Cooke said many defendants who confessed at a
notorious Belfast interrogation center had ``thanked'' him after being
sent to prison.
	``In many cases, people have thanked me after they've been sent to
prison,'' Cooke said under cross-examination from Karen Snell, the
attorney for Maze Prison escapee Jimmy Smyth. ``They've happy to have
escaped the grips of paramilitary organizations.''
	Prosecutors also called two other law enforcement officials to
counter Smyth's contention that his life would be in danger if he were
returned to Northern Ireland because British security forces collaborate
with loyalist paramility squads.
	Smyth, who entered the country illegally and lived under an assumed
name in San Francisco for seven years before his capture in 1991, is
seeking to remain in the United States under an extradition treaty
exception for fugitives facing religious or political persecution at
home.
	Cooke, an official of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, said harsh
interrogation techniques were necessary because terrorists were trained
to withstand questioning.
	``Only the innocent will speak at an early stage,'' he said.
	Cooke also said most people who complained about police brutality in
Northern Ireland were terrorists who wanted to annoy the security
forces.
	``If an officer is making headway with a suspect, a complaint is to
be expected,'' Cooke said.
	RUC Detective Inspector Allan Clegg offered testimony that conflicted
with one of Smyth's witnesses who claimed security forces were
responsible for the murder of his brother outside a police station in
the Northern Ireland town of Lurgan, about 20 miles south of Belfast, in
1990.
	Clegg said Sam Marshall was killed more than 600 yards from the
police station, beyond the range of security cameras, and denied Johnny
Marshall's accusation that the inspector took credit for the killing.
	RUC Sgt. Tom Sullivan, based in Coalisland, testified that former
British Parliament Member Bernadette Devlin McAliskey was refused a
permit to carry a gun for eight years, even though her life was
threatened, because she had a previous criminal conviction. In emotional
testimony several weeks ago, McAliskey accused security forces of
complicity in an assassination attempt against her and her husband.
	The extradition hearing is scheduled to resume Monday morning and is
expected to conclude by the end of next week.

--
*******************************************************************************

  Mark Holohan, DEC, USA        "Character is what you are in the dark" - 
  [email protected]                                      John Whorfin
  
  The opinions expressed are mine and not necessarily the opinions of 
  Digital Equipment Corporation.

*******************************************************************************

           IN A COURT, A SEMINAR ON CONFLICT IN ULSTER
                        by Michelle Quinn
              New York Times. Friday, Nov. 5, 1993
                           **********


San Francisco---The case of an escaped fugitive from Northern
Ireland that started as the first test of a new extradition rule
between the United States and Britain has turned into much more.

As it unfolds in Federal District Court here, it has become an
international spectacle, with Government officials and Irish
nationalists traveling thousands of miles to conduct a detailed,
and sometimes dramatic, debate on history and British policy in
Northern Ireland.

The extradition hearing will decide whether James Joseph Smyth
should be returned to finish a 20 year sentence for the attempted
murder of a prison guard and his wife in 1977.

                  Education in Painful Politics

But for the spectators who have crowded into the courtroom each
day for a month and a half, the proceeding has been an education
in the painful politics of conflict in Northern Ireland. There
have been neighborhood maps of Belfast, anecdotes about funerals
that erupted into violence and testimony from people like the
radical Bernadette Devlin McAliskey and a British brigadier.

The lawyers' questions sound less like an extradition hearing
than a World Court trial: Do British forces have a 'shoot-to-
kill' policy against suspects who are Catholic? Is life equally
difficult for all sides under military rule? What is the basis
for stopping someone at a checkpoint?

"This is a very unusual proceeding", said Carol Peggy Blum, an
immigrant and refugee specialist at Boalt Hall School of Law at
the University of California at Berkeley. "It's probably one of 
the few places in U.S. law where the Congress had mandated that
Federal courts should examine the totality of circumstances in
another country to determine if someone is going to be returned
there will be in danger," she said.

Mr. Smyth, 39, was one of the 38 inmates who escaped 10 years ago
from the Maze prison near Belfast by donning guards' uniforms and
hijacking a food truck. Most were caught within days, others
disappeared without a trace.

                     New Life in California

Mr. Smyth found his  way to San Francisco and began a new life.
With an alias, he worked as a house painter and married a bank
manager, who said she knew nothing of his past. Then last year he
was arrested by agent of the Federal Bureau of investigation as
he walked out of his apartment one morning.

At issue in Mr. Smyth's case is an amendment to the extradition
treaty between the United States and Britain. The treaty was
rewritten in 1986 so that known terrorists could be extradited
more easily. But at the time the law as being revised, several
senators insisted on an amendment which permitted a Federal judge
to decide whether a fugitive would be persecuted in Britain
because of his race, religion, nationality of political opinions.

That clause has turned the hearing into a crash course on
politics in Northern Ireland over the last 20 years.

The United States has extradition treaties with about 100
countries, but only a pact with Britain includes such a clause, a
State Department official said. In the last year, two other Maze
escapees have been arrested in California: Kevin Barry Artt in
San Diego and Pol Brennan in Berkeley. Their fates hinge largely
on the outcome of Mr. Smyth's hearing.

The British Government, represented by Mark Zanides, an Assistant
United States Attorney, has argues that the treaty was not
intended to put the British judicial system, on trial. The focus,
said Mr. Zanides, should be on Mr. Smyth,who  Britain says is a
member of the outlawed Irish Republican Army.

Mr. Zanides argues that no one class of people is a target for
the British security troops in Northern Ireland: they are just
trying to do their jobs in a miserable situation, he says.

Karen Snell, a public defender who is representing Mr. Smyth,
said that he is a member of Sinn Fein, the political wing of the
Irish Republican Army, but that he is not a member of the I.R.A.
Ms. Snell said she had not called her client to testify because
she wanted the hearing to focus on conditions in Northern
Ireland.

Mr. Zanides said that Ms. Snell was really trying to obscure the
fact that she has a weak case by bringing in flashy figures and
personalities who want a public forum in which to speak for their
own causes.

Ms. Snell has argued that people like Mr. Smyth,who have served
time in prison for crimes against security forces are now in
danger of harm--both in prison and on the streets of Belfast--at
the hands of British troops who have been there since 1972. The
witnesses she has called have told of brothers being shot, homes
searched and information easily flowing from the Government to
Protestant paramilitary organizations.

                      Tactics are Disputed

Mr. Zanides called a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary to
testify and she said that a review of police records showed that
only one of the 469 people accuses of crimes against officers was
later killed by the police or British troops. But such
quantitative evidence has been overshadowed by the dramatic.

For the defense, Ms. McAliskey, a former member of Parliament,
testified that Catholics who want a unified Ireland are often
threatened, detained and sometimes killed by the British troops
or Protestant gunmen.

Ms. Snell wanted to use secret British Government reports to make
her case, but the Government refused to let the Federal judge
presiding in the case, Barbara A. Caulfield, review the files
privately.

                      Burden on Government

Judge Caulfield ruled that the documents were relevant to the
case, the court would assume for the time being that Catholics in
Northern Ireland accused or found guilty of offenses against
British forces were systematically mistreated and that members of
the British forces encouraged such harassment. This ruling tended
to put a greater burden on the Government.

Wilfred Monahan,assistant chief constable of the Royal Ulster
Constabulary, testified that the police do not persecute any
group. "A divided society, terrorist groups on both sides, we
stand in the middle," he said.

John Chilcot, Permanent Under Secretary of State for Britain's
Northern Ireland Office, testified that the "Government most
certainly does not operate and never has operated a 'shoot-to-
kill' policy."

In Mr. Smyth's defense, Ken Livingston, a Labor Party member of
the British Parliament, told the court that "it's accepted in
Parliament that these things happen, the assassinations of Irish
republicans," and other acts aimed at people like Mr. Smyth.

Mr. Zanides has argued that if Mr. Smyth is returned to finish
serving his prison term he will not be subjected to ill-
treatment. And, once he is freed, he will be left alone to live
like any other member of society, Mr. Zanides said.

Ms. Snell disagrees. She has asked the court to allow her client
to resume his quite life as "a free man in the United States and
go back to painting houses."

                              *****
 
******************************************************************************

Northern Ireland Report Interview with:
                      Irish POW Pol Brennan

NIR's John O'Connor recent;y interviewed Pol Brennan over the
phone from the Santa Rita jail. Mr. Brennan, who escaped from the
H-Blocks with 38 other men in 1983, was interned for 11 months in
1974-75 and participated in the blanket and dirty protests during
the late seventies and early eighties. He was arrested in San
Francisco this past January on passport violations. Presently Mr.
Brennan is fighting British extradition back to the six counties.
Jim Smyth nd Kevin Barry Artt, also H-Block escapees, are also
fighting extradition warrants in California.

                              *****

Q: You grew up in Ballymurphy during the sixties, what was that
like?

A: Ballymurphy in the 1960s was a depressed area. There were no
social amenities such as community centres or leisure centres
that they have today. There were no activities for kids--we had
to play in the streets. Medical facilities were at a minimum; we
had one doctor's office and one dentist's office for the whole
area. There was never much work in the area, there was no
industry up where we lived, it was more or less devoid of
industry--probably intentionally. Unemployment was certainly very
high. During the early part of the 60s, I wouldn't say that there
was a lot, but we had Protestants who lived in the area. I guess
around 1969 and the early 70s, with the beginning of the
troubles, the area became polarized and people started moving
out.

In the early 70s I lived in England for a bit, and I saw a marked
difference in the area from before I left to when I came back. At
the time I went, there was massive rioting going on for months
and months--and I certainly witnessed that. But when I  came back
in early 1972 there was a remarkably changes atmosphere in the
area. The republicans had taken control, whereas before I left
there wasn't much evidence of that. I guess during the time I was
gone the whole area metamorphisized from just being what you
would calla working class area to an area where republicans were
giving a lead.

Q: What impact did witnessing the riots have on you?

A: Well, you know what happens when you get armed soldiers and
cops at the top of your street. The riots lasted for a couple of
months. Everyday you had rioting, fighting, CS gas, rubber
bullets and that kind of stuff. The British took a  lot of
casualties then becvause everyone was shooting wildly at them,
but of course nothing changed. A little later on in the early
70's, Ballymurphy was certainly an economically depressed area,
yet I saw a lot of community activity, people were moblizing in
the 70s. Ciaran de Baroid mentions this in his book 'Ballymurphy
and the Irish War', which I highly recommend, it's an excellent
historical book, but it is also a really good social study and
commentary on the development of a small area in the conflict. He
chronicled the development of community spirit in that area,
better than I could do here.

Q: Do you come from a republican family?

A: No, we were not brought up in any kind of political ideology,
that came after, from just living there. The troubles politicized
a lot of my family. My family votes Sinn Fein now. A lot of
people voted SDLP before the hunger strikes and during the early
1970s--the whole H-Block situation politicized my parents and my
family, as well as many others.

Q: How would you define Irish republicanism?

A: You can break it up into the isms as, they call them:
nationalism, secularism, anti-sectarianism, cultural separatism,
anti-imperialism, and socialism. I think that about covers it as
far as what it means as an ideology. Now, not everyone who calls
themselves a republican would adhere to all of these, but for me
it entails all of these different things. I'm sire that there are
still some bigots around. Republicans are a diverse bunch. It is
the younger element now who have been politicized since the last
campaign, they moved politically toward the left. Anti-
imperialism is certainly a central element of our republican
ideology.

Q: How has republicanism developed over time?

A: Well, a lot of politicalization occurred while in prison. When
we were on the blanket, there was a lot of political activity and
development. There was a lot of learning during internment. It
was almost like a political university, you might say. People
with time on there hands needed to understand the politics and
economics of the situation, and the other aspects of it. When we
were on the blanket we certainly had  a lot of political
lectures. Certainly the jails had a big impact on
politicalization of, not only people in Sinn Fein, but all of the
people involved.

Q: How many years were you on the blanket protest?

A: I was arrested in September 1976, did about a year or so on
remand and then was sentenced in October 1977--if my memory
serves me. From then on, right through tom 1981, I spent my time
on the blanket protest and the no-wash protest. So from 1977
directly through to 1981.

Q: Why the blanket and dirt protests?

A: The protests were about fighting the criminalization policy,
which was one of a three-pronged attack against the republican
movement in the mid 70s. The strategies the movement were
struggling against entailed the policies of Ulsterization,
Normalization and Criminalization. Criminalization was the
process of criminalizing republican and loyalist activists and
prisoners. Anybody who was arrested after March 1, 1976 faced the
loss of political status. Going on the blanket was a direct
result, or a direct reaction tothe criminalization policy of the
British government.

Q: You  shared a cell with hunger striker Bobby Sands for a time,
what was he like?

A: Sands was a multi-faceted and multi-talented person. Had he
not died on the hunger strike, I am convinced he would have made
a name for himself somewhere down the line--within political
circles. He had an enormous amount of energy. He was always doing
something, writing poetry, writing articles. He was someone you 
could talk with--and he could talk you to death. He had an
enormous amount of energy--sometimes it was a negative energy. He
was very argumentative about  what he felt was right--even if it
turned out he was wrong. I remember a discussion we had once
about what Albert Einstein was famous for. Bobby said he was
famous for splitting the atom, and I told him he was famous for
his theory of relativity. He was certain he was right, he was
incredulous! He certainly was a very dynamic personality. But
what really can you  say about someone who may never had died on
hunger strike except for British policy and Margaret Thatcher.
His and the other deaths were a great loss to all then. It was
devastating.

Q:  Where do you see the republican movement in 1993, is it
progressing?

A: During the early 80s, the movement gained from the momentum of
the hunger strikes and the H-Block protests. Sinn Fein has gained
a lot of stature and matured enormously sine that time.
Pragmatism has been injected into the movement because of the
realities of the early 80s.

What you are seeing now is a reversal of the traditional problem
of the republican movement. historically, the armed struggle
always led the politics. The armalite in one hand and the ballot
box in the other hand was a compromise, I think the movement is
trying to move beyond that. The political element has taken the
lead now in the struggle. The armed struggle is now augmenting
the political struggle (sometimes negatively). But the armed
struggle is certainly still ongoing. I think what you  are seeing
now is that the Brits are very weary about the political strides
that have been made. Evidence of this would be the number of Sinn
Fein politicos being murdered--there is more than enough evidence
of that.

Certainly they are moving forward. If they get the chance you
might see the lessening, or suspension, of  the armed struggle in
lieu of an even more political direction--if they get the chance.
London and Dublin could  give them a chance, but are they going
to  grasp the opportunity instead of ignoring it?

Q: Does Britain still want to control the six counties?

A: The British are somewhat unsure of their long term policy in
Northern ireland; especially vis-a-vis the relationship with the
EC. What you are also seeing is that the present strategy in the
North has run out of steam as far as the British are concerned.
The three pronged attack of the mid 70s: Ulsterization,
Normalization and Criminalization has more or less petered out.
The result of  this was the Anglo-Irish Agreement which was
basically a sop to the southern free state {the Irish Republic--
eds}.

Q: Why doesn't the republican movement work more towards northern
consent?

A: This is a desirable situation, but republicans will never be
able to convince the unionists in Ireland that their best
interests lie in a unitary state, a united Ireland. London, and
perhaps Dublin and Brussels, could and should contribute to this.
This is where the pressure of convincing must come from. It is
only through this that a majority consent will be obtained, I
think. But that may be closer than one might imagine if the
present population trends in the north continue. It's no longer
the 2 to 1 ratio. If the present projections hold up--in 2015 to
2030 there will be a 50-50 split. Based on that alone, I think,
the British are faced with a problem down the road. What the
British should do with the Dublin government is actively seek
majority consent together. You know, there is only something like
a 7 or 8 percentage point difference in the population totals
between Nationalists and Unionists at the moment. Certainly now
is the time to switch policy  and go in that direction.

Q: What do you see as the source of recent increased loyalist
violence?

A: What we are now seeing is the kind of political, military
policies being applied that are the direct result of counter
insurgency strategies developed by the British over the years,
during their colonial wars. They were in some forty or fifty
colonial wars before they came here. So they certainly had a lot
of experience in dealing with that. Brigadier General Frank
Kitson, probably their greatest anti-insurgency specialist,
developed the sue of modern day strategies and counter-
insurgency forces. A lot of the loyalist death squads meet his
description of counter insurgency forces. They are really death
squads by proxy. Of course, it is just an extension of Kitsonian
theories.

Q: You have written in your 'Irish People' column "Northern Irish
Notes" that the United Nations may have a role to play in any
political solution in the North.

A: Well,to a certain extent, since both the London and Dublin
governments seem incapable of solving it by themselves, the UN
could and should be involved at least by sending a special envoy
to set up a peace process. There are things they could do,
especially conflict resolution and human rights. The EC also
should be included in some of this. Through all of  this, I
think, Sinn Fein and the republican movement must be given an
equal place at the table--otherwise there would not be much of a
chance for a lasting peace. It would be a bit like the white
South Africans holding peace talks and not inviting the ANC.

Q: What do you think of the Southern governing coalition?

A: I don't think it really matters who is in power in the South.
They are pretty much two sides of the same coin as far as the
North is concerned. But having said that, I do see a role for 
them in any future solution to  the problem. But they must be
pressured into doing it. They need a good strong push. Certainly
Dublin must begin to flex its muscle if it is to be taken
seriously, but so far they don't seem to have the gall to stand
up  and be counted. To this extend the Anglo-Irish Agreement
satisfied them--it was enough to set aside any criticism they
were coming under from southerners. But due to the lack of any
real initiative, they should be pressurized into inviting the UN
and the EC in to  help start a peace process, which they seem
incapable, or unwilling, to initiate.

Q: What is your reaction to the Hume/Adams peace initiative?

A: The Hume/Adams initiative is clearly cause for some hope, and
it is of major significance in that it solidifies the
nationalist/republican tradition for the first time since the
late sixties. Whether or not it is successful at this time
remains to be seen and depends on a number of factors. But it 
has already had the positive effect of showing the world that it 
is  not republicans that are holding back the peace process. The
ball is firmly in the Brits court and so far they have been
negative. The events of this past week--with the Shankill Road
tragedy--is also a great set back, although by all accounts it
appears to have been a premature explosion having killed and
injured IRA personnel along with the civilian deaths and
injuries. That fact may have softened the blow to loyalists, but
sadly innocent Catholics have already died in retaliatory strikes
by death squads. It is a big setback and I hope we can soon
recover. The darkest hours are just before the dawn. I'm still
optimistic on some levels.

Q: Do you think you will see a British declaration of withdrawal
in your lifetime?

A: Making political predictions in light of what has happened in
the past ten years is risky business at best. But London is going
to have to bite the bullet sometime. The only question is 
whether it will be sooner rather than later. In the end, the
truth is that unionism is a dying ideology, it has had its day.
We need all the help we can get. I just hope  the British don't
prolong the agony, and that they wouldn't leave something like a
Bosnia. How they leave is what is very important.

Q: How long were you living in California before your arrest?

A: I came here in late 1984 after having hid in Ireland for a
year or so. After a couple of months of manhunts over there, I
decided to leave. When I was arrested inn January I was happily
married and just lying low. It seems just like yesterday that I
was back in Ireland. I can remember everyplace I was and
everybody that I met--I came across some wonderful  people. I
certainly have suffered from some homesickness, the years have
just slipped by.

Q: How were you making a living?

A: I have had a number of odd jobs. I have some building skills,
and I got into  remodeling, which was my main income. I certainly
worked very hard at it.

Q: How does your case differ from Joe Doherty's, Artt's or
Smyth's?

A: Both Smyth's, Artt's and my case came under the 1986 treaty
that was structured specifically to make extradition of such
people as ourselves easier. Margaret Thatcher, at the time, was
on a personal crusade against republicans. This also was a
consequence of allowing US planes to  use British airspace and
bases for the attack on Libya back in the mid 80s.  This resulted
in President Reagan's promise to hand back anyone caught over
here, and I  guess they  had Joe Doherty in mind. Both Artt's and
my  case have been effectively stalled until after the Smyth case
has run its course and been resolved. This is, of course, the
test if you like. His trial starts in mid-September and will run
for four weeks. With another couple of months for appeals, and
what have you, it will most likely end early next year.

Q: Is prison much different here than in Northern Ireland?

A: Well, prison is prison wherever you  go, but it is vastly
different. The level of violence and racial tension in the
American system, is a factor. I've talked to enough old cons to
know that overcrowding is a big problem here. I think you are
going to see a lot more incidents like you saw in Ohio State.
There is something seriously wrong when a society needs such a
hugh penal system. America has now the biggest penal  system in
the world, more than the former Soviet Union, more than South
Africa.

Q: Do you  think that your case will differ from Doherty's
because of Clinton?

A:  Well, it could make a difference if enough pressure is
applied to Clinton and his administration to  initiate several 
promises to the Irish-American community during the campaign. He
pretty much did a on-eighty on most of them. He certainly paid
lip-service to us before the election as he courted the Irish
voter. You know that after the visit from John Major he seemed to
step back from his promises, especially on the special envoy. It
remains to  be seen, certainly more pressure can be applied.

Q: What can interested individuals do to help?

A: People should start organizing and look at what is being done
in their names over the extradition issue. This extradition case
has implications that go beyond just the Irish cause. Any
political refugee who is being sought in another country can just
automatically be sent back. Traditionally, this country has been
a place of refuge for people escaping repressive regimes.
Certainly many Irish republicans have thought of it in this
sense.

Q: What gets you through each day?

A: I take it  one day at a time. Sometimes I'm up, sometimes I'm
down. I red a lot, I'm writing a lot now. {Mr. Brennan has a
regular column in the 'Irish People' and appears often in the
'Anderson Valley Advertiser'--eds.} I just wrote a big article
this week that I hope will be published. I keep busy on that
score.

                            ********

Pol Brennan can be contacted at the following address:

Pol Brennan
UFW 396
Santa Rita Jail
5325 Border Blvd
Dublin, California, USA
94568

                              *****

Donations for Pol Brennan's defense fund should be sent to his
wife:

Joanna Volz
2111 Stuart St
Berkeley, California, USA
94705

                           **********

NIR is an independent publication and is not affiliated with any
political party, group or organization in Northern Ireland or 
the United States.

NIR
PO BOX 9086
Lowell, Massachusetts, USA
01853

subs: $20.00 (10 issues)

tele   413-467-7860

    
    I read that on the internet. The last part is quite interesting and
    seems to be at odds with the standard propaganda.
    

    Is there any further news on the Joe Smyth extradition trial ?
    
    Surely its finished by now.

 Stuart Ross interviewed Bernadette Devlin McAliskey for AGAINST THE CURRENT
 magazine (Detroit, 11/5/93)--portions of this interview as well as excerpts
 from the speach she delivered that evening will be published in the March/
 April issue of ATC.

(Edited Version)

ATC:  Before getting to recent events in Ireland, you have just come from
San Francisco where you were one of the many well-known defense witnesses
called to testify on behalf of Jimmy Smyth, an Irish national facing extra-
dition back to the north of Ireland.  Kevin Barry Artt and Pol (Paul) Brennan
face similar extradition trials.  Given the fate of other Irish nationals in
U.S. courts, do you think the outcome of this case will be any different?

BDM: I was asked to testify about the situation in Northern Ireland. Basically,
Jimmy Smyth is one of the escapees from the mass escape {1983} from the Maze
{or Long Kesh} prison.  Nineteen prisoners actually got clear of the prison
and avoided rearrest for a long time.  The British have consistantly followed
up where ever possible in finding them.  Kevin Barry Artt, Smyth and one other
person {Pol Brennan} were finally arrested in California--initially on visa
violations.  The British are now seeking the extradition of Jimmy Smyth.

It's been an interesting case because for one thing it comes in the wake of
a new treaty {the US/UK Supplementary Extradition Treaty} which followed the
Doherty case.  The intention of the treaty was to make it more difficult to
provide a defense.  Jimmy Smyth has been very fortunate because economic
considerations forced him to opt for a public defender who turned out to be
a young woman of remarkable talent.  I think the first thing that has to be
said is that Karen Snell's sharpness as a lawyer, her willingness to look at
the case and then take on the issues, to travel to Ireland and to become her-
self so totally convinced in the righteousness of Smyth's cause has been a
major strength in the case.

A combination of the weakness of the treaty and the excellence of the lawyer
has provided all kinds of openings even though the treaty was supposed to
have been introduced to make it easier to get Irish people out of the country.
It ended up with her demanding and being able to very successfully argue
before the court for the release of such documentation as the Stalker Report
and the Stevens Inquiry--the British government didn't want to do that.  Then
she argued before the judge that at least the judge should have access to this
information and the British refused to give it.  The prosecution walked them-
selves into a position where the judge then accepted, for legal purposes, that
the defense case was valid and that the British government does ill-treat
prisoners, does operate a shoot-to-kill policy and does (through its security
forces) collude with Loyalist paramilitaries.  This was a very difficult one
for the prosecution to have to handle.

They have a very weak case before the court and most of the case has been
demolished by the defense.  Snell has used the trial as an education process
in itself which has been possible because it's a public defense trial.  She
called actual witnesses to give testimony as to the defense so she has produced
just line upon line of people from Ireland to testify in open court about their
experiences.  It's being reported on a daily basis in the San Francisco papers
so basically it's a lesson a day--people in San Francisco being treated, one
day after another, to information on Ireland that they never had access to
before.  The media covered it very closely because it has become a case involv-
ing the treaty and almost every witness has had their testimony in the papers.
People in San Francisco who would not normally be exposed to this information
are reading about young men who are killed going to work, young women who are
killed because they wanted to study law, people who are killed because they
voted Sinn Fein.  It's been a remarkable educational process.

At the end of the day I would estimate he's likely to win this round.  The
prosecution very foolishly tried to impugn the integrity of the people who
were giving testimony.  I was cross-examined about the assassination attempt
on myself {1981}.  I was actually, in a most hostile and insensitive manner,
cross-examined on the attack on my family and myself--its effect on my children
--as if I was making the whole thing up myself.  I certainly didn't impress the
judge.

They actually brought in the seargent from my local police station.  He was
asked to refute my statement that the military operated a sort of "human
shield" policy--putting military installations in close proximity to churches,
schools and residential areas.  He said it was not true.  I said the police
station was next to the church.  He said it was not.  But then, on the cross-
examimation, he was asked where it was.  He said it was 30 feet from the
church.  The judge asked, "What is between the police station and the church?"
He said the road.  That is the manner of prosecution witnesses that have been
produced.

In the case of Oistin McBride (whose brother was killed by the security forces
{1984}), to refute his testimony they brought over a member of the RUC, an
autopsy report on his brother Antoine and photographs of his brother's corpse.
They were then forced to go to court the next day because Oistin said this
wasn't true--the pictures were of a corpse that had not been physically abused
and he had testified that he had seen the marks on his brother's body.  They
were forced then to admit that the photographs were not the photographs of
McBride nor was the autopsy report the right autopsy report.  By some mistake
the police had provided the wrong photographs and the autopsy report wasn't
even of the guy the photographs were of!

They've been called out so often in the RUC providing false information to the
prosecution and, because Smyth's lawyer has been so thorough, they have been
exposed by the many people who have been coming over.  Every now and again they
just refuse to answer questions.

So I think Smyth's going to win this round.  The problem, of course, will be
whether (under the new administration) the State Department will continue
what they did with {Joe} Doherty--to hound him until they finally send him
back.

Basically Smyth is a test case.  What happens to Smyth will happen to the
others.  It's that kind of case.  The others deal with the same legal points,
the same background applies, so they are not going to hear the same exact case
three times.  Whatever happens to Smyth will happen to the rest.


ATC: There is another group of Irish nationals in the United States who have
recently come under attack and are engaged in legal battles of their own.
The INS has been targeting Irish nationals for "defrauding the government" by
providing "false" information on their visas.  Instead of extradition, these
men face deportation.  Why the sudden crackdown?

BDM: I think basically what happens is they know exactly where everybody is
(put that down to paranoia.)  They know, by and large, who's here and where
they are--they sort of leave them for a rainy day when there is a need to
counteract some particular little propaganda around British activity or
whatever, or when there's the prospect of getting people organizing....
An example is the case of Francis Gildernew who was here for a long time.  It
was only when his visability within INA {Irish Northern Aid Committee, or
NORAID} stepped over a certain limit that they went after him.  He has been
very sucessful fighting that.

I think it's basically used to insure that other people keep their heads down.
It's a method of intimidation because of course there are large numbers of
people from Ireland who are not particularly interested in Irish affairs or
Irish politics, but who are illegal.  The message basically is if you stay that
way you'll probably be alright.

               FEELING FREE AFTER YEARS OF HIDING
                       by Kevin Barry Artt

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their
kindness and support in the fight against the British
government's requested extradition of Jim Smyth, Pol Brennan and
myself. I am also honored by the naming of Jim, Pol and myself as
grand marshals of the 1994 St. Patrick's Day Parade. This is an
ideal opportunity to not only highlight our cases, but to bring a
further awareness of the situation in northeast Ireland. The
election of Gerry Adams and John Hume as honorary grand marshals
will also send a message of support for a just peace in our
homeland. I am overwhelmed by such solidarity and I am forever
indebted to all. These have been trying times and it gives great
comfort to know we are not alone in our fight for freedom.

This may sound strange, but I have experienced a greater sense of
freedom since my arrest in June 1992 than I have over the last 10
years. Since the "Great Escape" in 1983, I had no contact with my
family or friends. Not knowing if they were dead or alive, I
always carried the fear in my heart that the worst could well
happen. Thanks God all is well. I have reestablished contact with
all of my family and we are catching up on the years we have been
robbed of, due to the continued British occupation of our
country.

My mum and dad, Maeve and John Artt, visited me a few months ago.
Words cannot describe what an emotional reunion that was. Thanks
to the generosity of some very special people, my son, Barry
Paul, was also able to visit me during the summer. How strange it
was to see my baby a teenager. I never realized how much I missed
my family. ANy time thoughts of home surfaced, I was forced to
ignore them to preserve my sanity. Unfortunately, our time
together was limited to prison visiting hours, but we made good
use of our time, filling in the missing years and discussing
hopes for the future. My special thanks to those who went out of
their way to make my family as comfortable as possible. They had
a wonderful time and were overwhelmed by the kindness of the
Irish community.

My parent plan to return this summer, along with my sister,
Therese, who is eleven years my junior. It's almost like time has
stood still for me. Therese is now a grown woman, married with
two children, Nuala and Brendan. The last time I saw here she was
barely a teenager. So much has changed so quickly.

When I left to escape further persecution, my goal was to obtain
political asylum so that I could reunite with my wife, Carmen,
and our son, who was only three years old. Unfortunately, the
political climate was not right and Joe Doherty's case was still
before the courts. I found myself in a wait-and-see position. I
discovered I was faced with another unforseen obstacle, adapting
to the American way of life and blending into the lifestyle. I
naturally assumed that everything would be much as it was at
home, minus the oppression and on a much larger scale. I
experienced a form of culture shock, for want of a better word.
Obtaining an AMerican identity, I moved to San Diego to build as
new life and blend into my new-found environment. I soon found
myself caught up in the day-to-day struggle of basic survival. I
could not see a feasible way to ever reunite with my wife and
son, barely getting by myself. The economics of education,
healthcare, identities, let along the dangers involved with
contact, left me in my own personal hell. The lyrics of the song
"Me and Bobby McGee" brought a new understanding of 'freedom's
just another word for nothing left to lose.' A piece of me had
died when I left Ireland, but I had to switch off the past and
try to move on.

Living a life as someone without a past carries its own
psychological baggage, but thank God I am free of that now. I
really have so much to be grateful for. I am a natural optimist
and I believe everything will work out for the best in the end. I
lived a good life, and fell in love with my adopted home. I have
been blessed with a beautiful daughter, Kara, and many wonderful
friends. Now, even though incarcerated, I fell that this will
lead to our eventual freedom and our cases will create further
awareness of the oppression Irish Nationalists suffer on a daily
basis at the hand of the British government.

The winds of change are finally blowing in the Irish direction.
Awareness of British oppression is reaching a new dimension. As
the truth emerges, peace will become a reality. The might of
public opinion will force the British to seriously participate in
bringing together all those in conflict and establish the right
the Irish to self-determination.

Again, my thanks to all for your generosity and support.

                              *****

(The writer, currently incarcerated in Dublin, California, is
fighting extradition to Northern Ireland.)

from The Irish Echo. March 2-8, 1994.

    re .23
    
    What a nice family letter....
    
    Now remind, whom is he alleged to have killed ?
    
    John

    
    Don't you love the way they all smell like roses in SF and Boston, all
    these IRA men, worshipped by the fanatics just as Melloan said in the 
    WSJ article.
    

from NORTHERN IRELAND REPORT (#17)

the following excerpts are from Bernadette McAliskey's testimony at British
extradition victim Jimmy Smyth's trial in Northern CA. on October 4th and
5th 1993.

NIR is an independent publication and is not affiliated with any political
party, group or organization in Northern Ireland or the United States.

Subs. $20    NIR--PO Box 9086 Lowell, MA  01853
*******************************************************************************

(Direct Examination: Karen Snell (Smyth's lawyer))

HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF?

-Middle aged, but neither middle class, nor middle of the road.

AND HOW ABOUT IN TERMS OF YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS?

-I am, in the broad sense, I am a Republican.  I would be seen as a radical.
 I am a radical.  I have for all my political life worked within the field of
 human rights, worked in a forum which is rapidly decreasing, worked within
 the broad open democratic framework; the possibility to do that decreases
 all the time.

DO YOU SUPPORT THE USE OF VIOLENCE?

-I do not support the use of violence, I understand where it comes from when
 you--when you take away the mechanisms of democracy from people without
 resolving their problems, you actually create violence without using it
 yourself.  So, I'm opposed to all forms of violence.

IN TERMS OF YOUR REPRESENTATION IN A GOVERNMENTAL BODY, HAVE THINGS CHANGED
SINCE HAVING YOUR REPRESENTATIVES AT STORMONT PARLIAMENT VERSUS IN WEST-
MINISTER?

-No, the number of members of Parliament at Westminister was increased very
 slightly, but they constituted--for example, the Nationalist population is
 represented in Westminister by four members of the Social Democrats and they
 constitute four out of some 650 persons in Westminister, nor is the area
 governed like any other part of the area governed by Westminister.  It's
 essentially governed by a procedure known as Orders and Counsel.  And
 effectively, therefore, Northern Ireland is governed by the Secretary of
 State and a body around him of people in the Northern Ireland Office.
 Matters pertaining to Northern Ireland very rarely come onto the floor for
 democratic discussion even in Westminister.  They are done at night by
 orders of Council of Ministers.  And so, in practical terms, it's like--
 it's like running the colonies in the old days, just a body of people who'd
 get on with doing it. And access is very limited, and of course, if people
 elect, for example, members of Sinn Fein, the government doesn't deal,
 the government doesn't recognize Sinn Fein personnel.  So, if your local
 counselor is a member of Sinn Fein, we'd pretend he doesn't exist, or she
 doesn't exist.  If you want, for example, in Derry city, a deputation
 recently went to to see the minister about the fluoridation of water, but
 the minister wouldn't see the deputation until the elected representatives,
 who were members of the Sinn Fein party, were removed from it.  He wouldn't
 discuss the fluoridation of water with a Republican.

AS A RESULT OF YOUR WORK ON BEHALF OF REPUBLICAN PRISONERS HAVE YOU RECEIVED
ANY THREATS?

-I have, yes.

AND WHEN WAS THE FIRST THREAT YOU RECEIVED?

-The most serious--there are two levels of threats.  You get all kinds of
 threats but the threat you take serious is when the police officers come
 to your door and inform you that on the basis of their intelligence, you
 are in danger, imminent danger of assassination.  Then they go away again.

AND DID YOU HAVE SUCH A VISIT?

-They came to me in November of 1980 and informed me that I was in imminent
 danger of assassination from Loyalists and they believe that the attempt
 would emanate from Lisburn and they advised me to leave the country.

AND WHAT HAPPENED?

-Well, what happened was I applied for permission to hold a firearm and was
 refused permission.  I sent my children to live with friends.  I continued
 my work, and in January--the hunger strikes ended, the first hunger strike
 ended the Thursday before Christmas.  I had three small children.  I took
 them home to my own house at Christmas because the hunger strike was over
 and I thought the danger of assassination had, therefore, receded.  The
 issue was not resolved and it was becoming clear that the hunger strike would
 start again.  On the 16th of January, Loyalists came to my home, walked past
 the British army who were lying outside my door; I saw them the previous
 night with my own eyes and spoke to them, and said, "Have you no homes of
 your own to go to?"  And the following morning, three members of the Ulster
 Defense Association came with a sledge hammer and put my door in, and shot
 myself and my husband in front of our three children.

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

-They walked out of the house and the soldiers arrested them as they were
 walking out.  I was fully conscious.  My husband was very, very seriously
 injured and was struck in the head, he was unconscious.  We were taken--

DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE SOLDIERS AT THAT POINT?

-I did.  This British soldier came to the door and said, called out--I was
 quite confused as to who had shot me because I had seen the British soldiers
 at the door the night before and had spoken to them.  And when the people
 who shot me walked out of the house, I heard the English accents just very
 calmly saying, "Put your hands against the wall."  And my initial belief
 was that the British soldiers had shot me, but was totally mistaken;  they
 hadn't.  They were arresting the people who did, and then the British soldier
 came to the door and he shouted, "Is there anybody still alive in there?"  And
 I didn't answer.  None of my children answered.  I live in a very remote area
 and then I--they called three times, and the last time I answered because I
 was convinced that my husband was dead.  My children weren't answering, but
 I was afraid that if I didn't answer, that the soldiers might go away and
 I didn't know what might happen to the children, so I finally said, "Yes,"
 and a young soldier came in and he asked me what my name was.  And I was,
 frankly very angry that he should have asked me that, and I said, "You know
 what my name is.  Why else were you outside my house?"  We didn't pursue that,
 and I said, " Why did you let those people in here?"  And the soldier's hands
 were shaking and I believed the man was telling me the truth that his orders
 were to arrest armed men coming out of my house, but that he did not know that
 the purpose of the visit of those armed men was to kill me.  But I have no
 doubt that whoever ordered him to arrest people coming out as opposed to
 going into my house knew what those people were coming in for.  I would like
 to point out that I was not the only member of the H Block Committee to be
 attacked.  I was the only member to survive.


CROSS EXAMINATION: MARK ZANIDES (US ATTORNEY'S OFFICE)

MRS. McALISKEY, WITH REGARD TO EMPLOYMENT, YOU WOULD AGREE, WOULD YOU NOT,
THAT THE NUMBER OF JOBS AVAILABLE IS AFFECTED BY THE ECONOMIC CLIMATE IN
WHICH THE ECONOMY FINDS ITSELF; YOU WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, ISN'T THAT--

-I would agree with that, yes.

AND I TAKE IT YOU WOULD FURTHER AGREE THAT THE TERRORISM WHICH HAS BEEN
EMPLOYED BY THE IRA HAS DISCOURAGED INVESTMENT IN NORTHERN IRELAND; ISN'T
THAT TRUE?

-I disagree with that.

SO, IT'S YOUR VIEW THAT THE BOMBINGS OF COMMERCIAL TARGETS HAVE NOT DIS-
COURAGED INVESTMENT IN NORTHERN IRELAND; THAT IS--

-It is a statistical fact that despite the bombings, the profit margin and
 the man hours, the profit margin is higher in Northern Ireland than any-
 where else in western Europe for outside investment, and despite 25 years
 of political upheaval, the number of man hours or woman hours lost per day
 in industry through absenteeism is the lowest in western Europe.

IT'S NOT YOUR--
it
-It is, therefore, not my opinion--

ALL RIGHT, IT'S NOT--

-in fact, the - in conjunction with that, the large financial offers made by
 the Government to outside investors mean that we have a regular inflow of
 investors.  They leave when the tax concessions and the profit margin are no
 longer in their favor.  They go back to Puerto Ricl, or --

AND THE TAX CONCESSIONS ARE OFFERED BY THE GOVERNMENT IN PART TO OVERCOME THE
DISCOURAGEMENT THAT IS CREATED BY TERRORIST BOMBING CAMPAIGNS--

-No, the tax concessions have been--

EXCUSE ME.

-an integral part of the state since its creation.  They're also offered
 equally successfully in the Republic of Ireland.  It is difficult to retain
 outside investors for more than seven years, which is the duration of the--
 the financial package.

YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT THE PEOPLE ARE MILITARILY PUNISHED IF THEY VOTE
IN A MANNER NOT PLEASING TO THE GOVERNMENT?

-That is right.

AND I TAKE IT THAT, WELL, YOU WERE NOT SAYING I PRESUME THAT THE GOVERNMENT
SECRETLY RECORDS HOW PEOPLE VOTE; YOU'RE NOT SAYING THAT, ARE YOU?

-It's much simpler than that.  I am saying, and I'm saying with great weight
 of evidence behind it, that people are militarily and economically punished
 for voting for Sinn Fein.  In the area in which I live, people vote Sinn Fein.
 They elect Sinn Fein councillors.  They are punished for it.  They are
 punished on the way to the polling station.  They are subjected to abuse on
 the way from the polling station.  The people that they elect are rendered
 useless in as much as their public representative, whom they have democrati-
 cally elected, and it is a right enshrined in the United Nation's Charter that
 the people have the right to choose the representation of their own liking.
 But people in Northern Ireland who vote Sinn Fein find their public represent-
 atives in district councils are often not permitted to speak.  In Magherafelt
 District council, the loyalist councilors disinfect everything that Republi-
 cans touch.  They frequently take the chair from Republican representatives
 when they attempt to speak, put their chair outside and when the Republicans
 go outside, they lock the door.  Members of Sinn Fein who are elected
 representatives have been shot and killed.  People who put up and advocate
 and work in the electoral process for Sinn Fein are attacked and it's a
 common day occurence.  Areas like West Belfast who vote Sinn Fein have, for
 a long time, been economically punished.  Groups like community groups and
 self-help groups who employ Republican ex-prisoners are politically vetted
 and more often than not, have their state funding reduced until they are
 prepared not to employ those people.  There is more to democracy than putting
 people's names on electoral registers and giving them pieces of paper.

AND SINN FEIN IS WIDELY CONSIDERED TO BE THE POLITICAL WING OF THE IRA; ISN'T
THAT TRUE?

-With respect, that's hearsay.  Sinn Fein is a registered legal legitimate
 political organization which offers itself to the public for election and
 which is elected.

THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF STATEMENTS BY SINN FEIN COUNCILLORS SUPPORTING
VIOLENCE; ISN'T THAT TRUE?

-I'd like to hear them.  I'm not a member of Sinn Fein and the question might
 best be addressed to a member of that organization.  But there are members
 of many organizations which oppose and support violence.  But Sinn Fein is
 a lawful political party.

YOU--EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME.  YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU, YOURSELF, OPPOSE
THE USE OF VIOLENCE; IS THAT RIGHT?

-I do--in the--

HAS THAT ALWAYS BEEN YOUR POSITION?

-It has always been my position.  I understand where violence comes from.  I
 refuse to condemn those deprived of alternative methods of airing grievances
 when they are forced by the system to resort to violence.  If I actually
 supported violence, I would use it.  I have worked 25 years in the political,
 social and economic arena of Northern Ireland, and despite all the odds, I
 have worked non-violently, openly, democratically and peacefully, just--

YOU STATED--

-I'm not--

--STATED IN 1979, "WE USE THE FORCE OF ARMS IF WE HAVE TO, AND I DECLARE THAT
TO BE THE RIGHT OF ALL OPPRESSED PEOPLE."  DID YOU MAKE THAT STATEMENT?

-I think that is a right.  It's not a right I believe people--

EXCUSE ME, DID YOU MAKE THAT STATEMENT?

-Yes.

OKAY

-And I would still make it.

AND YOU HAVE DEFENDED THE KILLING OF LORD MOUNTBATTEN IN 1970--WHAT WAS IT,
NINE?

-No, I think you entirely misunderstand and misinterpret my position.  I will
 not condemn the oppressed who use violence against a violent oppressor.  That
 is not to say that I support violence.

SO, YOU WOULD NOT CONDEMN THOSE WHO, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD--WELL, TAKE A RECENT
EXAMPLE, EXPLODE THE BOMB IN WARRINGTON AND KILL TWO SMALL PEOPLE?

-I'll not condemn those people.  I think it was a terrible action, but then
 the American War of Independence was not won with feather dusters.  It's a
 sad reality of our lives that the progress of history, as at all times,
 has been predominated by violence and violent change.  It shouldn't be that
 way, and it doesn't have to be that way.

YOU, YOURSELF, HAVE CALLED YOURSELF A "SOCIALIST"; IS THAT RIGHT?

-I am a socialist.  I understand it's no longer fashionable, but I'm still a
 socialist.


REDIRECT EXAMINATION: KAREN SNELL

AND FINALLY, YOU GOT INTO A DISCUSSION WITH MR. ZANIDES ABOUT VIOLENCE AND YOU
SAID THAT YOU THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO DEFINE THAT TERM.  CAN YOU GIVE US
YOUR DEFINITION OF VIOLENCE?

-Yes.  I define violence much more broadly than when people who have grievances
 use violence against the state.  I define violence as being physical violence
 of that nature, but also the physical violence of the state against the
 people, like beating people off the streets for non-violent marching, for
 permitting right-wing elements and supporters of the government to use
 violence against people using their democratic right to disagree.  I also
 believe that there is non-physical violence.  There is a violence of personal
 degradation and humiliation.  There is a violence of enforced poverty.  All
 those things are violence.  They is, to me, the totally unacceptable violence
 of the powerful which has the 11th Commandment, "Thou shall not win."  So
 when people use the democratic channels to air their grievances, and argue
 for change, the powerful who don't want change use violence against them
 until such time as people don't actually make an intellectual decision.  They
 make a decision borne out of anger or frustration.  It's a fragmented decision
 where groups or individuals just abandon hope because it goes no where.  They
 abandon all hope that such a -- that a non-violent process exists for them,
 and so they see the choice for them as to continue to tolerate their
 grievance, whether that is economic poverty, or humiliation, whether it is
 personal or not.  And so they react violently to the violence imposed on
 them.  At that point, people talk about violence, at that point which is the
 very last violent act in a long violent cycle, is when the person on the
 bottom strikes back.  Now, I do not believe that that's where the violence
 starts.  But I believe that those--the people in Government like to say that's
 where violence starts.  Violence in the present civil rights cycles started
 exactly 25 years ago today.  This is the 5th of October, and we walked through
 the streets of Derry City, or attempted to walk peacefully to say that we were
 deprived of equal citizenship within the state.  And the police charged us
 on th street and they beat us off it, and they continued to beat us every-
 time we appeared on the street.  Then they passed a law making what we were
 doing, which was non-violent, but legal, non-violent and illegal.  And then
 they used the courts against us. The number of people like myself who have
 still soldiered on without resorting to violence gets smaller daily, but
 people still only talk about the violence of those who have just had it up to
 here with the violence that they suffer.  Now I refuse to condemn or judge.  I
 think you have to look at systems.  If you want to get out of violence, you
 have to find machineries through which people's very deeply held opinions and
 very properly held grievances have a non-violent channel through which they
 can be effectively resolved.  And if part of the attempt to say, "That's what
 we have to do," then you are part of the violence.  And I don't believe that
 the government of any country can use the excuse that  because citizens who
 are on the bottom of their social and economic, political and cultural ladder
 resort out of frustration to violence, that that entitles the state then to
 abandon the principals of democracy and human rights which is supposed to be
 the hallmark of our civilization.  It is not an excuse to say that because the
 IRA kill people that you are entitled to take away the civil and human rights
 of people who you suspect might be in the IRA or might be supporting the IRA,
 or might be voting for a party that might have a policy that might be similar
 to the IRA's.  If we come to a point where governments say that's acceptable,
 then we have come to the end of civilization.  It is not open to governments
 to say, "We cannot maintain power unless we violate those rights and stay in
 power."  I believe if you cannot govern them within the principals of demo-
 cracy and human rights, it is time you cease to govern, and I believe that
 that's a principal held dearly by most, if not all American citizens and
 citizens in the free world.

HAVE YOU FOLLOWED THE PRISONERS WHO ESCAPED {FROM LONG KESH IN 1993--EDS.} AND
WHO WERE RETURNED TO THE PRISON?

-Yes.  I think we have all, when I say "we", those of us who where most closely
 involved in the prison protests have retained a very close working relation-
 ship with prisoners, as a result.  I spend--a great deal of my time is
 actually welfare work, dealing with the dependents of prisoners.  Essentially,
 the men wage war and women gather up the pieces.

 And I look after people going to the prison, children whose, predominately
 whose fathers are either in prison or have been killed.  So that one's
 constantly aware of the community of prisoners, those who are in, those who
 are ex-prisoners, and the difficulty they have when they get out of prison.
 It is particularly difficult for a prisoner who has put his head, as we would
 say, put ones head over the wall.  Prisoners who come to public attention,
 become names.

 My own experiences is that ex-prisoners, by forces which are not--the forces
 of the state which apply themselves to ex-prisoners actually provide ex-
 prisoners with no future except in many cases to return to that which led them
 into prison, because as ex-prisoners, it's very difficult for them to get
 work.  Members of the community who employ them will find themselves visited
 by the police.


RECROSS EXAMINATION: MARK ZANIDES

MS. McALISKEY, YOU HAVE DESCRIBED THE DEATH OF MRS. McGLINCHEY?

-Yes.

THAT WAS--THAT IS THE LATE WIFE OF DOMINIC McGLINCHEY, ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

-That's right.

AND SHE WAS A FRIEND OF YOURS?

-She was, yes.

AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHO KILLED HER, DO YOU?

-The persons who killed her have never been apprehended, but her file is now
 open again in the light of the attack on her husband.

AND THAT'S DOMINIC McGLINCHEY?

-That's right.

ALSO KNOWN AS "MAD DOG" McGLINCHEY, IS THAT RIGHT?

-I consider that to be a violation of his human rights.  He is not called
 "Mad Dog" McGlinchey by anybody other than the British authorities and the
 British media.  And it's an indication, Your Honor, of the attitude.  There
 is nothing you can do with a mad dog, only shoot it on sight.

               MAZE ESCAPEE, CAPTURED IN CALIFORNIA, IS RELEASED
                  THREE OTHER MAZE ESCAPEES AWAIT PROCEEDINGS

    A US federal judge yesterday ruled that convicted IRA gunman James Joseph
Smyth, who escaped from a Belfast prison 11 years ago, may not be extradited.

   Federal prosecutors respresenting the British government at the California
hearing have said they would appeal such a ruling.

    Smyth was arrested in San Francisco in 1992 after spending nine years on
the run when Scotland Yard and the RUC asked Californian authorities to carry
out fingerprint checks in predominately Irish areas.

   Britain wants Smyth back in Northern Ireland to complete a 20-year jail
sentence for the attempted murder of an off-duty Belfast prison officer -- and
to prosecute him for taking part in an armed mass escape from the Maze prison
in 1983 in which two prison guards were shot and others were stabbed and
beaten.

   Last October Labour's Ken Livingstone, MP for Brent East, appeared before a
US District Court to attempt to testify on Smyth's behalf.

   In May last year Northern Ireland Secretary Sir Patrick Mayhew went to
America to explain the Government's policies in Ulster.

   Federal district judge Barbara Caulfield at that time requested some of
Whitehall's most sensitive documents about the province, including papers on
the Stalker inquiry into the alleged shoot-to-kill policy.

   The Government blocked their release and found itself having to prove that
Smyth would be safe in Britain's custody.

    Three others who were a part of the same escape from Long Kesh Prison
(aka HMP Maze), Kevin Barry Arrt, Pol Brennan and Terry Kirby, all
currently in California jails, have appplied for bail to await their
proceedings outside.

    
    
     re last
    
     How can someone who "attempted to murder" an off-duty prison guard
    be considered "a good guy"? The guard and his wife were both badly
    injured in the attempt on their lifes. I suppose his wife was
    unlucky to be injured because she was in the wrong place at the
    wrong time, or maybe an attack was justified because she was married
    to a prison officer. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but attempting to kill
    unarmed innocent civilians is hardly the work of a "good guy"
    
     Danny.
    
    ps Before we get all the usual rantings and ravings about collusion,
    Loyalist murder squads etc etc, MURDER OF UNARMED INNOCENT CIVILIANS
    on all sides is WRONG and an act of cowardice, not an act of a brave
    freedom fighting army.

 re. .29

 This trial was more than just an extradition trial.
 British policy in north east Ireland was put on trial,
 and a U.S. judge decided that people should not be
 extradited to a country that practices the kinds of
 crimes Britain does in north east Ireland.

 This definately was a win for the "good guys".  A win
 for people who stand up and fight against British
 collusion with Loyalist death squads, forced confessions,
 jury-less trials, and Britain's past policies of
 censorship.

                   Mark

    
    
    re last
    
     OK then, I take it you support the attempted murder of the unarmed
    prison officer and his unarmed civilian wife? If the criminal who
    committed this offence said he was "fighting against injustice" then
    it would be okay in your eyes?
    
     A straight yes or no wouldn't go amiss.
    
    Danny.

 re. .31
 
  You've convicted a man, based on a British court
  conviction.  The world knows the worth of a British
  court conviction, zero!

  Based on Britain's history in north east Ireland,
  of forced confessions, faked evidence etc, I'd
  be surprised if Mr. Smyth even committed a crime.

                         Mark

    I've read your report again and the conviction itself does not appear
    to be in question.

    
    re .32
    
     Typical, you have yet again avoided the questions posed and stuck to
    your usual inane rantings. But, then again, I shouldn't have expected
    anything else. I don't think you've ever given a straight answer to
    any questions posed. There are 2 sides to any story but you obviously
    don't see that.
    
     Danny.

   British to appeal order that freed Irish nationalist

RTw  9/21/94 8:46 PM

    By Adam Entous
     SAN FRANCISCO, Sept 21 (Reuter) - A British official said
 Wednesday that his government will appeal the ruling that
 freed Irish nationalist Jimmy Smyth from a U.S. federal prison
 less than a week ago.
     "London has said that we will be appealing the decision,"
 said Kevin Cook, vice counsel for press and public affairs for
 the British Consulate General in San Francisco.
     A federal judge in San Francisco September 15 blocked
 extradition of Smyth, who escaped from a Northern Ireland
 prison in 1983, and ordered his immediate release.
     U.S. District Judge Barbara Caulfield rejected the
 extradition request after finding that Smyth would likely be
 punished on the basis of his political opinions if returned to
 Northern Ireland.
     Her ruling was based on a provision of the extradition treaty
 between the United States and the United Kingdom. The
 provision bars the return of a fugitive who might be harmed
 due to his religion, nationality or political opinions.
     But Wednesday the British government notified its San
 Francisco consulate of its intention to file an appeal.
     "The papers are presently being prepared and the
 government is confident that it will win," Cook said.
     The move came as little surprise to Smyth's lawyer.
     "I was hopeful that they would not (appeal the case), and
 would use this opportunity to show good faith to the Republic
 movement," Karen Snell said.
     Smyth was among 38 prisoners who excaped together from
 Maze prison in Northern Ireland in 1983.
     He was serving a 20-year prison term for attempting to
 murder a prison guard and the guard's wife.
     Smyth was arrested in San Francisco in 1992, where he had
 been living quietly since 1984, working as a house painter. He
 was charged with making a false declaration while applying for
 a U.S. passport.

    
    I say that if the Americans are daft enough to keep him then let them. 
    In fact if the USA are so keen to look after convicted criminals, we've
    got thousands of them.  We could save an awful lot of money by shipping
    all our criminals off to the USA.
    
    Didn't we try that with Australia 200 years ago ?
    
    
    

>    all our criminals off to the USA.
    
they can have Chelsea's footy fans, for a start!  :)

Chris.

    I heard on the news over the weekend that the British finally won and
    Smyth is to be extradited. Smyth is appealing this decision.

 Unbelievable isn't it.  The 9th U.S. Circuit court of Appeals ordered James
 Smyth back to Northern Ireland.  In September, U.S. District Judge Barbara
 Caulfield said that Smyth, if extradited, faced persecution because of his
 Catholicism and political views. 

 I believe Smyth's lawyer, Karen Snell, will take this to the U.S. Supreme
 Court if it becomes necessary.

 This is just another example of the British government doing their part
 to destroy the peace process.

                       Mark

> This is just another example of the British government doing their part
> to destroy the peace process.

in another recent note you stated that the British government had absolutely
no influence with any other country, so, one way or the other, you're talking
complete bollocks (no surprise there)

Chris.

    
    You forget the "special relationship".  We deport innocent
    Nationalists, you let us stage aircraft when we need to
    bomb Libya.
                   Mark

>    You forget the "special relationship".  We deport innocent
>    Nationalists, you let us stage aircraft when we need to
>    bomb Libya.

ah, you you're now endorsing state sponsored terrorism.

Chris.

  That's not an endorsement.  I thought it was wrong.
          Mark

Smyth is now in jail in NI again. It is rather ironic that this news comes
at the same time as note 1603.0 announcing the release of British agent,
Brian Nelson after having served less than half his sentence.