Conference tallis::celt

    Are there no Libraries where you live?
    

    
    	I live in a small town and their are no books re: Irish History.
    	But, after reading the many complaints from readers who want
    	to know about history rather than political issues, I thought
    	it would be a good topic for all to enjoy.
    
    	Mary

    All I know is he was shot in a chair.  
    

    I now know why they call you "Dennis the Menace"!
    
    	Mary

  James Connolly was one of the leaders of the Easter
  Rising in 1916.  For nearly a week, members of his
  Irish Citizens Army, and the Irish Volunteers made
  a stand in Dublin against the might of the British
  army.  Their headquarters was in the General Post
  Office on O'Connell street.  There are many acts of
  heroism that were performed by these men as they 
  held off the professional soldiers in the British army.
  When they finally were forced to make a painful
  decision to surrender (so as to stop the blood-shed
  of innocent civilians by the British), Connolly amoung
  many other brave individuals (Pearse, Clarke, Heuston
  to name a few) were taken as prisoners by the British.
  The British then proceeded with their mock trials
  (very similiar to the trials in northern Ireland) and
  executed these prisoners of war (as they now do with
  shoot-to-kill policies in northern Ireland).  Connolly,
  though a wounded prisoner of war was tied to a chair
  shot by a firing squad, and then had a bullet put
  through his brain to make certain of his death.  The
  bodies were then dumped in a common grave and covered
  with lime (to quicken decomposition and evidence of
  these British crimes).  I also believe that other innocent
  civilians, and pacifist were executed, dumped in common
  graves, and covered with quick lime.  You'll have to ask
  someone else for information on these attrocities. I have
  heard that a pacifist by the name of "Skeffy" was executed
  and disposed of in this manner.  The British government did
  see that justice was done in this man's case.  The offending
  officer (Colthurst?) was slapped on the wrist (similiar to
  British justice in northern Ireland, when the security
  forces are convicted of murder).

  Like many of Ireland's martyrs, remeberence of these men
  has taken a back seat (so as not to upset the delicate
  sensibilities of the Unionist, and the British government).

                          Mark
  

    James Connolly was one of the leaders of the early Irish Trade Union
    movement and one of the founders of the Irish Labour Party. He is
    considered the father of Irish Socialism and has been the suject of
    numerous theses, books and pamphlets.
    
    He founded the Irish Citizen's Army after the Dublin Lock out in 1913
    in order to protect the member of his Trade Union. Although one of the
    signatories of the proclamation in 1916, he was the least involved in
    the planning; being invited to join by Pearse et al when they got wind
    of a similar plan by the Irish Citizen's Army.
    
    He was wounded in the fighting in the G.P.O. and his execution, in
    particular, was one that caused the most outrage. While the others were
    taken from their cells, he was driven in by ambulance, tied to a chair
    and shot.  
    
    Just to clarify a few points on the previous note (.5):
    
    Sheehy-Skeffington was the name of the pacifist shot by the British.
    Indeed, he is believed to be the first casualty of the Rising. He was,
    apparently, well known around Dublin for his pacifism and was, I
    understand, pleading with the British for restraint when he was shot.
    
    Secondly, the use of quick-lime was quite common in prison burials at
    that time. Oscar Wilde's poem "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" describes
    the hanging and burial of a man in prison, in which he makes mention of
    the use of said quick lime.
    
    Jimmy

    RE: .4
    
    >I now know why they call you "Dennis the Menace"!
    
    As soon as our lad George returns, he will no doubt be in a position to
    attest that it is a muchly deserved appelation.
    
    RE: .6
    
    >Secondly, the use of quick-lime was quite common in prison burials at
    >that time. 
    
    That's why they're called "Limeys".  
    

    
    I like .5 - well said, Mark!
    
    
      <Like many of Ireland's martyrs, remeberence of these men
      <has taken a back seat (so as not to upset the delicate
      <sensibilities of the Unionist, and the British government).
      
    
       If James Connolly were alive today, he would be branded as commie-pinko
    (communist, socialist, what's the diff. They're close enough for
    smearing his name with innuendo), union-organizing "trouble-maker",
    (precursor to the word 'terrorist') and member of an "illegal" 
    paramilitary group called the Irish Citizens Army who would be 
    *extradited* to the north of Ireland by the cowardly shoneens that run 
    the Dublin government and turned over to the British warlords that 
    insist on colonially occupying the island of Ireland.
    
       Of course his extradition would be cheered on by the masses of
    *colonized Irish* (i.e.West Brits) who manifest themselves in groups
    like the New Concensus). You know the New Concensus, that group that 
    goes around Ireland wearing sack-cloth, blackening their faces 
    with ashes, while walking barefoot thru cities like Dublin flagellating 
    themselves with a leather whip all the while wearing a sign hung around
    their necks that says, "Someone Who Opposes IRA Violence."
    
       Of course, the sign never says anything about the British Army's  known 
    violence (as catalogued by my group, Amnesty International) or "loyalist" 
    paramilitaries' violence. Nor does it ever question Britian's "right"
    to interfere in the sovereignty of another country.
    
       After Connolly were extradicted, he would be "shot while trying to
    escape." Oh, I'm sorry, allow me to parrott the new excuse used by
    the British government to cover-up and justify their state-sponsored 
    murder of suspects: " 'e tried to run a roadblock."
    
       I guess their really is no difference between 1916 and today when
    you get right down to it: in 1916 crowds of Irish, cheering on the 
    British soldiers as they rounded up the last of the Easter Rising
    'terrorists'. And today, with "Free State tobies" (as we call them over
    here in the States), who have bent over backwards so as not to offend 
    the *delicate sensibilities* of the ever-colonially repressive British 
    government, that they have in fact become part of the British war machine 
    in Ireland - by refusing to question the legality of HMG presence in 
    Ireland, or Britain's continued denial of democracy and self dertermination
    by Ireland itself to its future.
    
    Can anyone show me the difference between the cheering crowd in Dublin
    in 1916 and the hordes of West Brits preparing to hand over half a million 
    Irish men, and Irish women (a la Pontius Pilate) either by extradition
    or by moving towards the repeal of Articles 2 and 3??
    
                         

    
    Wow !!!, an interesting analogy, I think interesting is the word I'm
    looking for.
    
    As an Irish citizen I believe that Ireland has changed and achieved a
    lot in the years since 1916.

    
    re: .9
    
    No one is saying Ireland hasn't achieved a lot in the years since 1916.
    
    Having just returned from the August 9th Interment rally, the West
    Belfast Festival, I dare say I saw more people from England in the
    parade (from the Troops Out Movement) than I did from the Free State.
    
    I wonder why, Gerry?
    
    As for the original point Mark was trying to make, about how
    rememberence of Ireland's martyrs and patriots has now taken a back
    seat because of British colonially-inspired self-censorship by Irish
    people who are afraid to offend the *delicate sensibilities* of
    their conquerers:
    
    The Easter Rising should be celebrated with as much gusto, joy and
    inspiration as the 4th of July and Bastille Day combined. Instead, your
    "jump-for-me-Paddy" politicians, those few that weren't in hiding -
    too embarrassed to be seen in public on Easter, or who were "overseas 
    on holiday", went around the country muttering things that sounded more 
    like an appology for causing the British government any "inconvenience" 
    for the 1916 Rising.
    
    What the hell kind of behaviour is that???! 
    
    And Gawd, while I was ther last week, there was every kind of
    fund-raising and benefit in the Free State for the war in Eastern Europe, 
    or the orphans in Romania, or the famine in Somalia, and wasn't there
    one too for the orphaned gay baby whales? But not one word about the 
    Casement Accused, or for that fact, the *war* that the British government 
    is waging on the Irish nationalists of NI.
    
    But just a few months ago, there was Irish government vetting of a small 
    organization in Cork called the "Between Program." Between brings 
    families and children from both sides of the divide in the north down to 
    a holiday house in Cork for a couple of weeks during the summer, just to 
    get the kids out of the war zone of NI. The organization can only stay 
    open for 2 months during the summer. And it can only support a handful of 
    people for their season. 
    
    Why is that Gerry? Why does this organization not receive more assistance 
    from the Free State government? Why are they continually vetted of funds?
    
    And of course, there is the absolutely absurd situation with RTE. It
    refused to allow Gerry Adams, (the author) to speak on the air about his 
    new book "Street Stories", because he is a member if SF. (Gerry, sorry,
    I can't spell those words out or Toby breaks out in hives when he sees
    it spelled out - but you know what I mean ;^>), even after the Irish 
    Supreme Court says the Section 31 ban goes too far. Self-censorship a
    bsolutely brought to a new height of absurdity.
    
    Again, I say: self-censorship has crippled the Irish from talking about
    and possibly solving the very problem that infects the island. Which
    plays into the hands of the British war machine to *hobble* any attempts
    by the Irish themselves to solve their own problem. 
    
    If you're afraid to talk about NI, then you are part of the British war
    machine to continue the war, to continue the undemocratic division of
    Ireland, and to continue the denial of the right of Ireland as a whole
    to self determination.     
                                                               

    Joe,
         Someone made the point recently that this conference (and the
         "discussion" therein, is riddled with the rantings of people
         who are totally incapable of real debate because their minds
         are totally fixed at all times within the confines of their own
         preconceived notions. In your last note you surpass yourself with
         a demonstration of the inflexibility of your thinking. You spend
         a week in this country obviously looking for a "fix" of Anti-Brit
         propoganda. Hence, imagine your sence of disappointment when the
         real peoplr of this country, those of us who live our lives here,
         are actually discussing in your regal presence, trivial and 
         unimportant issues like aid for starving babies. How could we
         possibly be so inconsiderate. Please let us know the next time
         you're going to grace us with your presence, and we'll be more
         prepared!
         Not that it's important, but if anyone wants to know where I stand
         on the N.I issue, I would point to Daithi's note a few back, one
         of the few well-thought-out contributions to this topic. That's 
         about exactly where I stand.
         And about the "between program", we didn't see your approval for
         this type of thing expressed here when Toby Joyce posted an
         article from the "Irish Times" about just such a programme, but
         of course, your hopelessly locked mind couldn't possibly allow you
         to express agreement with anything HE might have to say. ... 'nuff
         said.
    
    ... Tony.
    

    re: .11
    
    <Someone made the point recently that this conference ...
    <is riddled with the rantings of people who are totally incapable 
    <of real debate because their minds are totally fixed at all times 
    <within the confines of their own preconceived notions.
    
    TALK about "preconceived notions" - your note speaks volumes for
    the very thing you accuse me of.
    
    
    <You spend a week in this country obviously looking for a "fix" of
    <Anti-Brit prop(a)ganda.            ^^^^^^^^^
    
    Where the Hell do you get off saying something like that? you
    don't know Jack-sh*t about me, or why I was there.
    
    
    The *point* that I was trying to make (and which you obviously missed) 
    is the following:
    
    like the old Irish proverb, "Street angel, house devil" I find the
    actions of your government, your media, church leaders, and a segment
    of your population two-faced. The aforementioned concentrate their complete 
    effort and energy on helping distant lands and peoples, while ignoring 
    the cancer that is destroying Ireland - the British presence in Ireland. 
    Except when it's to condemn the IRA. 
    
    As I've said time and time again: What is always conveniently overlooked 
    is the primary cause of violence in Ireland - the continue undemocratic 
    division of Ireland, and the continued denial of the right of Ireland 
    as a whole to self determination. Your southern politicians and that
    segement of the Irish population that support British rule in Ireland
    have focussed only on republican violence and have dismissed British
    and pro-British violence as merely a response to IRA actions. The
    *facts* of the last 20 years make that arguement completely spurious.
    
    What is always overlooked by the so-called "Free-State tobies" that I
    mentoned yesterday is: state violence (in NI) against the nationalist
    community pre-dated the present IRA campaign. I suppose you've
    forgotten (conveniently of otherwise) the Civil Rights campaign of the
    60's was brutally attacked by the forces of the state, (RUC,
    B-Specials and the myriad of state-encouraged loyalist death-squads).
    Contrary to Brit propaganda, The British army was sent in, not to
    protect the nationalists but to shore up unionism in the interests of
    Britain.  
    
    And regardless of what you say or think, Hanlon, there is  a total war
    being waged against the Irish people (both north and south) by the 
    British government. Having been a colonized people for over 800 years 
    and having only gained your freedom from British colonial rule a mere 
    75 years ago, I sure it's hard for someone like you to see the forest 
    from the trees regarding this issue. 
    
    But believe me, it's a total war. 
    
    And too, there are refugees in your own country. And shattered people 
    and destroyed lives and families.
    
    Have you ever visited the "Between Program" holiday house in Cork,
    Tony? Maybe if you went there, or better, maybe if you went to the
    Creggan or the Beechmount section of West Belfast you'd see what I
    mean.
    
    As for your last statement that,
    
    <...your hopelessly locked mind couldn't possibly allow you to express 
    <agreement with anything HE (Toby) might have to say.
    
    I must say, I'm not in the habit of agreeing with "colonized Irish"
    who only see their conquerers point of view. Or rather, I don't listen
    to (by your own quote), 
    
    "the rantings of people who are totally incapable of real debate 
     because their minds are totally fixed at all times within the 
     confines of their own preconceived notions."
    
    Having been to the north of Ireland three times in the less than a year
    now, I can say with authority, I don't have any "preconceived ideas"
    about what's going on up there. I KNOW what's going on up there.
    
    Can you say the same thing, Tony?

    
    We are drifing away from James Connolly.  Maybe your points on the
    North are true, I do not claim to be an expert.  As an Irish person I
    do believe we need a new James Connolly, but we need him to get jobs and 
    homes for all the unemployed in 32 counties.   If we succeed at that, 
    then living together should be easier.
    
    I would definitely rather see a "jobs hero" than any other .....
                
    GC

    
    re: .13
    
    Good on you, Gerry!
    
    With 20+% unemployment in the Republic, let alone the north, Ireland
    could certainly use another James Connolly.

    
    MR. Drotter, I have read some of your past replies regarding this ever
    occuring and sore tender issue (sorry James Connolly to take the focus
    away from you but you died for the cause so I suppose you would not
    mind) Northern Ireland. 
    Every Irishperson has an amount of repblicanism within but some have a
    balanced amount of realism.
    I would like to here your possible solutions to the present situation
    as opposed to just your views and your views of others living in
    Ireland? 
    Do you think the continuation of terrorist violence will achieve
    anything towards a solution?
           -------------------------------------------------
    
    My solution is that one day with Maastrict in place Europe will have
    one main constitution and common law, with subsidiary laws for each
    individual country keeping in line with past traditions.
    Boundaries hopefully will not matter so much and where trouble
    continues it woulkd be policed by a European commition with no members
    from any of the countries involved.
    
    This is something that could take 50 years to achieve but we have got
    to aim somewhere.
    
    Tony,
                                                            

    
    I thought from the title that this note might be about James Connolly,
    but maybe I was mistaken.
    
    James Connolly was born in Edinburgh, and contributed to socialist
    organisation in Scotland, Ireland and in the United States.  In
    the United States he was an organiser for the IWW, the wobblies,
    in, I think, Syracuse, New York.
    
    In Ireland he was one of the proposers, with Jim Larkin, of the
    motion estabishing the Irish Labour Party in 1912, but he had an
    earlier party established around the turn of the century, though
    I cannot remember the name.  

    Connolly was a Marxist, and was probably the best theoretician that
    Irish Labour has had.  His book _Labour in Irish History_ is a little
    classic.  His influence has been so strong that up to the present
    time heated discussions of left wing issues can easily descend into
    squabbles as to which side Connolly would have supported.  
    
    Some left wing people think that the greatest mistake Connolly made
    was to throw in his lot with the Volunteers in Easter 1916.  Everything
    he stood for was betrayed in the subsequent development of this
    state.  
    
    
    Liam

    Dear Liam,
    
    	Thanks so much for getting back to James Connolly....one of the
    	questions I asked was
    
    	What was his contribution to the Easter Uprising?.....
    
    	Is there such an answer?
    
    	Thanks, Mary

    RE" .17
    
    	>What was his contribution to the Easter Uprising?.....
    
    He brought the lilies?
    

    
    ....... and the eggs for the easter egg hunt.

    two conferences!

    
    He was responsible for executing the jokers - unfortunately he was
    not totally successful :-)
    
    Actually, his role was pretty central.  He commanded the forces
    in the GPO.  He was shot twice - once in the arm when directing
    the erection of a barricade at the back of the GPO, and another
    more serious injury later.  
    
    He was not a `romantic' nationalist, but he was anti-imperialist,
    and he thought that Ireland could not provide for its people until
    it cut itself free from British imperialism.  He thought that the
    world war provided an opportunity for Ireland to do this, and he
    decided to combine with the Volunteers to this end.  He was inducted
    into the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB) a secret organisation
    which more or less directed the Volunteers.  His Irish Citizens
    Army, which was formed to protect striking workers after the general
    strike of 1913, took part in the Rising.  The secretary of the Citizens
    Army, the playwright Sean O'Casey, resigned because he did not trust
    the growing ties with traditional nationalism.  
    
    Some people argue that Connolly had a great influence on Pearse in 
    the year before the Rising, causing him to shift from a mushy 
    sentimentalist nationalism towards a more economically aware position.
    
    
    Liam

    
    Re: .17
    
    Connolly was a socialist before he was a Nationalist. He was born
    in Glasgow of Irish parents, and spent time in the US organising
    labour unions. He had some success in Belfast in getting Catholics
    and Protestants into the same union, but this effort foundered on
    the rock of sectarianism. Disillusioned, he moved to Dublin.
    
    He was a comparative latecomer to the IRB. Earlier he attacked 
    Pearse's mystical nationalism, calling him a "blethering
    idiot" at one point. While being for an independent Ireland,
    Connolly at this point probably sae it as a development of
    socialiam rather than the other way round. He led a small "Citizen 
    Army" of 200 men organised to protect the workers against the 
    strong-arm tactics of police and bosses during the 1913 Dublin
    lock-out. This has been called the first "Red Army".
    
    The outbreak of World War I changed everything for Connolly.
    Like Lenin and other socialists he had believed that
    "workers have no country". Socialists held that war was
    impossible because workers would not fight workers, and
    socialist deputies would not vote for war. However the sight 
    of the working classes mobbing the recruiting offices, and 
    socialist parliamentarians voting for war, was to him a profound
    shock, which led to a complete re-think of his position,
    particularly on the power of nationalism.
    
    Like later Marxist leaders, such as Mao and Ho Chi Minh,
    he grasped the synergy that socialism could gain by an
    alliance with nationalism. In this frame of mind, he put 
    out feelers towards the IRB and was accepted as a member
    in 1915. Being socially conservative themselves, the
    IRB had been wary of Connolly as an independent force. Now
    its members were happy to have the extra men and rifles, plus
    the benefit of Connolly's counsel. He and Pearse
    established a firm friendship, and each can be said
    to have influenced the other, though to what degree
    is uncertain because neither was the live long enough
    afterwards to make this apparent.
    
    As an member of the IRB counsel he was privy to the plan to 
    engineer a Rising by the Irish Volunteers on Easter Sunday, 
    and took part in the rising that took place on Easter Monday. 
    He had the post of commander of the Rising's armed forces up 
    until the point he got wounded, which happened rather early, 
    I think.
    
    Despite his wound he was tried and condemned to death.
    He was shot by firing squad while seated in a chair.
    Like the other 1916 leaders, he was noble in aspiration
    and intention, a man who had calculated that by his
    sacrifice, ultimately, good would come. We do not know
    what he thought about the civilians inevitably 
    killed in the fighting. When asked if he would pray
    for his executors, he said:
    
    [Surprisingly for a Socialist of that era, Connolly remained 
     a staunch Catholic]
    
    "I will pray for all good men who do their duty according
     to their own lights."
    
    Undoubtedly, that is what Connolly himself did.
    
    Toby

    
    Francis Sheehy-Skeffington was a Irish socialist, pacifist, writer
    and agitator for women's rights in the pre-1916 era.
    
    He took no part in the Rising, but took to the streets of Dublin
    to try to prevent looting. Arrested by a British Captain Bowen-
    Colthurst, he was taken to Portobello barracks along with two
    civilians. There, Bowen-Colthurst personally shot Skeffington
    and the others.
    
    Bowen-Colthurst was later court-martialled, found to be insane
    and committed to an asylum.
    
    Skeffington's family made notable contributions to Irish 
    public life. His widow Hannah, later became a Sinn Fein M.P. 
    and remained in that party until her death. Skeffington's son,
    became a well-known Senator and writer - a book on him was
    published last year. Last but not least is Skeffington's
    nephew, none other than that tormentor of Republicans and
    storm-trooper of the Revisionists - Conor Cruise O'Brien.
    
    Toby
    Toby 

    
    	The man was all shot through that came today 
    		into the barrack square 
    	And a soldier I, I am not proud to say that 
    		we killed him there
    	They brought him from the prison hospital and
    		to see him in that chair
    	I swear his smile would far more quickly call 
    		a man to prayer
    
    	They say he was different, kindly too, apart
    		from all the rest
    	A lover of the poor, his wounds ill dressed
    
    	Christ, I felt my rifle shake and around his
    		chair a pool of blood
    	And I, I was picked to kill a man like that
    
    			JAMES CONNELLY
                                   

    
    Frank Harte, the Dublin singer, has a great Connolly song, if
    I can remember some of it:
    
    	Where, oh where, is our James Connolly?
    	Where, oh where, can that brave man be?
    	He's gone to organise the Union
    	So working men might yet be free.
    
    	They carried him up to the gaol,
    	They carried him up to the goal,
    	And its there they shot him, 
        one bright May morning,
    	and quickly laid him in his grave.
    
    That's all I recall. It's unusual in that it celebrates
    Connolly's Socialism rather than his Nationalism. It
    has the lines:
    
    	..We vowed to build one mighty Union
    	and fill that gallant man with pride.
    
    Toby

    From visiting the Kilmaynem (SP) Jail (actually more of a prison) in
    Dublin while on vacation, I could have almost answered the original
    question.
    
    For anyone visiting Ireland (or even those living there), I would
    highly recommend taking a tour of the Jail, located in Dublin.  It was
    built in the 1790's and almost immediately and predominantly used to
    house political prisoners, according to the British definition.  It was
    used as a prison until 1920's, I think.  Abandoned for several decades,
    and currently for the past ten years been under restoration for
    purposes of a tourist attraction and as a device for educating about
    the many Irish revolutions that occurred during its lifetime.
    
    Although Connolly wasn't housed there, many of those arrested during
    the Easter uprising were.  As part of the tour, we were led out to the
    prison yard where the executions occurred.  Over a period of a couple
    of days, Connolly's companions were executed in the yard.  Connolly was
    brought from his hospital bed, offsite from the prison, to be shot in the
    yard.
    
    The tour was about 2 pounds and lasted about 3 hours.  You can stay as
    long as you like in the central prison area looking at the historical
    displays.  The guides lead you through about 25% of the entire prison,
    the parts that have been restored.
    
    In the next couple years they hope to open the dungeon area.  According
    to one guide there are some excellent examples of hot water/cold water
    torture chambers.
    
    -- Jim