Conference tallis::celt

Funeral of man killed by IRA

Several hundred people attended the funeral at Coalisland, Co Tyrone,
on Saturday of Mr Robin Hill (22) who was shot dead by the IRA in
Belfast. The IRA's claim that he was a member who had passed on 
information to the RUC was strongly rejected by his father, Mr
Bernie Hill, at the weekend.

During Mass at the Church of the Holy Family, the Rev Patrick
Hannigan said that Robin Hill was innocent. The local community
had been shocked, disgusted and saddened by the murder.

Father Hennigan told the congregation: "He was a cheerful young
man of 22 years. Out brother Robin was suddenly and violently
taken from us. Murder is immoral and gravely sinful. No one
has the right to take human life, nothing can justify the taking
of human life."

He added: "Parents, you must be careful about the company your
children keep to ensure they do not become involved with men
of violence."

Many shops in the town closed for the funeral.

(Irish Times, 17/8/92)

    

  Well there is one thing for certain Toby, there are
  some Irish who talk too much.
                  Mark

    
    IRA ADMITS IT KILLED WOMAN VISITING BELFAST
    
    From Jim Cusack, in Belfast
    
    The IRA admitted over the weekend that it was responsible for 
    shooting dead the woman who was in Belfast to visit her elderly
    mother in the Ardoyne area of the city.
    
    In a statement, issued more than 24 hours after the killing,
    the IRA suggested that is sniper had fired four shots at a 
    joint army and RUC patrol in Ardoyne on Friday afternoon.
    However, RUC sources pointed out that the officers counted
    up to 13 strike marks at the scene of the killing.
    
    Mrs Isobel Leyland (41), a mother of four children, had been
    living in the north of England for 15 years. In 1975 her younger
    brother Mr Francis Bradley was killed in a UVF bombing in 
    north Belfast. Mrs Leyland had left Northern Ireland to
    escape from the violence.
    
    The IRA offered its sympathy to the dead woman's family for
    what it described as a "tragedy". [The IRA] was strongly
    criticised by local politicians.
    
    Dr Brian Feeney of the SDLP said that the attack in which
    an automatic burst of shots was fired from a distance
    of 150 metres at the security forces, was a murderous
    and wanton act of recklessness.
    
    Alderman Nigel Dodds of the Democratic Unionist Party
    said that Mrs Leyland's killers should be dealt with 
    "in a way that befits the dastardly deed." The Democratic
    Left councillor, Mr Seamus Lynch, said that the IRA was
    displaying contempt for the community in Ardoyne and
    should be rooted out.
    
    The local Sinn Fein councillor, Mr Paddy McManus said
    the death was a "painful reminder of the the human cost
    of this conflict" and that there was "an urgent responsibility
    to redouble out efforts to demilitarise this conflict."
    
    ....
    
    - Irish Times, 24/8/92

    
    I inserted this note because Margaret Leyland's death bearly
    makes page 2 of the newpapers in Ireland, and will hardly
    make the Boston Globe or New York Times at all.
    
    Such is where the IRA campaign has led: instead of the massive
    media publicity that is supposed to be the justification for
    such actions, all we get in anonymous death. Apparently, the
    focus is on for the 3000th death in Northern Ireland - 
    Margaret Leyland was only 2999th. Of course this is rubbish - it
    ignores the 200 or deaths in the Rupublic or deaths occurring
    in the rest of the U.K.
    
    Margaret Leyland joins the sad list of civilians that 
    stretches from Bloody Friday, 1971, through Claudy, and
    Enniskillen and includes Mrs Gibson, wife of Lord Justice
    Gibson, killed with her husband, and Mary Travers killed
    with her father as they left Mass, and Paul Maxwell the
    17-year old Sligo boy who was on Earl Mountbatten's boat, 
    and the wife of a British soldier in Germany, and the six-month
    baby of another. That is only a small sample.
    
    The only conclusion that can be reached is that of Conor 
    Gearty in his book "Terror" (Faber and Faber):
    
    "We are forced to conclude that because the category of
     "legitimate" target" is so broad, and the killing
     of those included so recklessly executed, the IRA
     campaign is for all pracrical purposes indiscriminate
     in its effect. Therefore, because the violence is also
     symbolic, it is appropriate to regard much of the IRA's
     subversion as purely terrorist in its execution."
    
    I suggest that puts pay to any claim that the IRA is
    fighting a guerilla war.
    
    Toby

    re.3
    
    >The IRA offered its sympathy to the dead woman's family for
    >what it described as a "tragedy". [The IRA] was strongly
    >criticised by local politicians.
    
    Sounds pretty tragic to me. Why did you put it in quotes ?
    
    If the IRA does something it doesn't mean to do and say's it's sorry or
    calls it a tragedy, people criticise it. What would be the reaction if
    nothing was said ? Pretty much the same I expect.
    
    Tony.
    

    
    
    Your're a bit slow today, Tony, but I'll repeat myself just
    for you.
    
    The word is in quotes because it IS a literal quote from the
    IRA statement. I don't think anyone disputes that a tragedy
    occured in Ardoyne - the criticism is directed at the IRA
    because it is their campaign that is mainly responsible
    for the indiscriminate killing, in particular the reckless
    way their operations are carried out.
    
    In the last weeks the following incidents have occurred:
    A 9-year old boy brought home a bomb he found on the street
    - it had fallen off the underside of a car belonging to
    an IRA "target". Yesterday in Twinbrook two houses had
    their windows blown in when blast bombs were thrown at
    an army patrol. An IRA man planted a firebomb on top
    of a police car in a busy shopping street. A Nationalist
    family had to dive for cover when their home was sprayed
    with gunfire in an IRA ambush of security forces. 
    
    All of these could have led to a needless death, but 
    luckily did not. However "bystander's luck" cannot
    last for ever - as poor Margaret Leyland found out.
    
    Over 500 civilians have died in the last 10 years,
    together with over 400 members of the security forces.
    About 78 deaths are due to the actions of the security
    forces (and of those 45 were IRA, INLA or UVF men on
    "active service") - this is 7% of the total deaths in
    Northern Ireland. The majority of civilian deaths
    are either direct paramilitary assassination or the 
    result of paramilitary operations. This does not take 
    account of the wounded or maimed, or the destruction wrought
    by paramilitary bombs, or the jobs lost as a result.
    
    The conclusion HAS to be that paramilitary violence must
    stop if the people of Northern Ireland are to have any
    sort of relief from the violence they suffer.
    "IRA regrets" or Sinn Fein councillors making apologetic
    noises about "demilitarisation" will not alter the fact that
    as long as the paramilitaries continue, tragedies like
    the death of Margaret Leyland are inevitable. 
    
    Tony, are you disputing any of the above? 
    
    Toby

    >Your're a bit slow today, Tony, ..............
    
    Good of you to notice Toby.
    
    >.........................but I'll repeat myself just for you.
    
    You're the only bloke I know who can take 48 lines to repeat a one-word
    quote :-)
    
    
    
    I questioned it (the tragedy in quotes) because quotes are usually used
    to trivialise the statement, in other words, 'How could the IRA be
    "sorry" for such a thing or how could they call it an "accident" etc.'.
    Saying sorry or calling something an accident cannot bring a life back
    but I think it's better than remaining silent.
    
    >The conclusion HAS to be that paramilitary violence must
    >stop if the people of Northern Ireland are to have any
    >sort of relief from the violence they suffer.
    
    I would say that The conclusion has to be that paramilitary AND military 
    violence must stop if the people of Northern Ireland are to have any
    sort of relief from the violence they suffer.
    
    I've said it before, the British army's treatment of the nationalist
    population in NI is the IRA's best recruitment weapon. Stop treating
    people like dogs and they'll soon stop biting you.
    
    
    >Tony, are you disputing any of the above? 
    
    Not one word Toby. I don't have access to the sort of figures you're
    quoting. News of events in NI is pretty scarce down here, I believe
    your figures.
    
    Tony.

    I remember people talking about the CELT notesfile a number of years
    ago and it seemed to be a hotbed of humorous, vigorous and cross the
    board discussions. I have only just started to contribute to it and
    frankly I am disappointed. 

    Firstly, the discussion seems to have polarised to the extent that
    almost all notes involve political issues pertaining to Northern
    Ireland. Secondly, only a small number of noters appear to use this
    conference. Have the discussions on NI alone, driven them off? 
    Thirdly, the few noters who do contribute seem to have views at either
    end of the spectrum, or at least are forced to take up a position 
    at either end of the spectrum based on the arguments proffered against
    their contributions. 

    For the record, I consider myself a nationalist but I do consider the
    IRA are now part of the problem. Views are so entrenched by violence
    that there can be no political solutions until the violence stops. I
    believe that the IRA are the primary instigators of that violence. 

    The problem from the British point of view is that they believe that
    the IRA are the only problem. I strongly believe that all British
    political initiatives today are in response to Republican violence in
    general and to IRA violence in particular. The problems of bigotry and
    discrimination were ignored by both Britain and Ireland for years. 
    Thus, that the IRA can be deemed to have been in some way successful,
    given British attitudes to them, is probably Britain's biggest failure. 

    There are many complications and intricacies within this problem, but
    no one side can be entirely satisfied in any solution. Therefore, there
    has got to be compromise from all sides. I could list a vast number of
    obstacles in the way of that compromise, but the cessation of violence
    NO  MATTER WHERE IT STARTS is the first step on the road to that
    compromise.
    
    The IRA are not just thugs who would be operating murder gangs in the
    abscense of a "political situation", but many of there acts over the
    years have been little more than criminal acts of thuggery. Likewise
    the British army have had their share of thugs and certainly do not act
    impartially (in my opinion) towards both communities. Also, it is
    totally hypocritical of the British government to allow their army
    to operate as if at war, while maintaining that it is a civilian
    "security situation".
    
    Whether "war" is a justified term for what is going on, or whether
    "war" is justified is another thing. Suffice it to say that in my
    opinion the Unionists no longer enjoy the unconditional loyality of the
    British government. Nationalists (including Sinn F�in and the IRA) will
    not be in a position to take advantage of this as long as the violence
    continues.

    
    I agree in the main with the previous two notes. One thing that
    always got up my nose is that several notes seemed to me to 
    an "ain't it awful" bleating society concentrating on one side
    only. Paramilitary violence was ignored, or shrugged off
    as if it was the activity of kid brothers who are it bit
    wilder than we are, but whose hearts are in the right place.
    
    This attitude of benign "don't want to know" is one of the
    main feeders of the violence. When people abandon this
    attitiude and begin to send strong messages to the
    paramilitaries to lay off, we may see progress. The
    UDA was banned two weeks ago - there was not one glimmer of
    protest on the streets of Northern Ireland, from the
    Loyalist people the UDA claims to be "defending" so
    apathetic was the attitude to the organisation. We
    are seeing the INLA and IPLO tear themselves apart
    (again!) in a tawdy squabble about profits from drug
    smuggling. I believe the base note is a symptom that the
    benign acceptance the IRA gets from many Nationalists
    is being gradually withdrawn. 
    
    I am not portraying the Security Forces as angels - in my
    count there are about 13 killings in the last 10 years
    that were probably nothing short of murder - this includes the 
    Fergal Carraher and Aidan McAnaspie cases, which got international 
    attention. There is also events like Bloody Sunday.
    Sadly people like the two mentioned in these notes will
    not get international media attention, and no team of 
    lawyers will jet in to investigate their deaths.
    
    A comparison with the Palestinian uprising is instructive
    - there the Israeli Defence Forces bear responsibility
    for 75% of the fatalities. The security forces in Northern
    Ireland bear responsibiility for 7% in the last 10 years
    (which is as far back as I can get good figures). 
    For the main source of violence we must look elsewhere that 
    the security forces, though that should not prevent the constant
    pressure on those forces to keep with the law.
    
    I would love to see this notesfile go back to what it was
    when I first started noting - then the predominant topics
    dealt with Celtic culture in Ireland, America, Brittany
    Wales, Scotland and England. Over the years the notes
    have become primarily political, some of them blatantly
    spreading propaganda, though I suppose I could be accused
    of that as well. However, I did (and still do) feel obliged
    to balance out the "ain't it awful" notes with an alternative 
    viewpoint, or to present a balanced set of facts and let people 
    make up their own minds. This is intended mainly for noters 
    (like Tony) who see little news of Northern Ireland in
    their local or national papers.
    
    Toby