Conference tallis::celt

    
    One of the most endearing traits of us Celts is our fondness for fairy
    tales, but we should not extend that fondness to fantastic Ludlumesque
    plots invented by lawyers and dramatised for TV.  Business suits? I
    fully expected dress uniforms of the Brigade of Guards complete with
    bearskin.

    Here are a few facts - just to distinguish between fact and fantasy.
    While I was in the UK and Europe on vacation and business a few weeks
    ago, the IRA managed to `mistakenly' shoot and kill four innocent
    people.  Two Australian tourists in their twenties were shot to death in
    front of their wives in a Belgian street. The other victims were
    ironically two young Welsh boys of 17 and 18 who had just joined the
    Army.  Members of the community sang in Welsh at their civilian funeral
    at their home town.  I doubt that their killers could string more than
    two words of Gaelic together.   
    
    They also killed an Army Major in Germany, which was a major success by
    their standards, as some of their previous victims in Germany were a
    baby a few months old and the civilian wife of an officer.  Nice people
    eh?  I nearly forgot - they bombed a teenagers party injuring 20 or so
    kids, and lost one European cell who were arrested by a
    shotgun-wielding farmer.  A busy three weeks of the "war" for the brave
    freedom fighters.
    
    I suppose I'm stretching a point by describing the two Welsh lads as
    innocent - after all, they had been in the army a couple of months and
    were in uniform as they waited unarmed on a railway station platform. 
    A justifiable target I guess.  The had left their close knit valley
    community to join the Army as it was their only escape from the
    crippling unemployment in the area.  A state of existance that the
    Catholic minority of the province would be very familiar with.  I
    wonder,  how does the murder of one Celtic lad by another free the
    oppressed Catholic minority of Northern Ireland?
    
    A dirty war indeed, but the bungling antics of some ill-trained
    psychopaths who like to think that they are freedom fighters are MAKING
    it dirty.  What this program will probably try to do is simply another
    attempt to put the IRA in good light by blackening the British
    Government. The basis of the program is that Governments should not be
    caught doing anything dirty.  If they do get caught doing dirty deeds
    then there is justification for the terrorists to do what they will,
    call it a "war" and escalate the violence. Me, I'm just fed up by the
    killing and couldn't give a toss about either side trying to justify
    something or prove that the other is the real villain.
    
    I have few sympathies with the politics of Margaret Thatcher, but I
    don't in all honesty think that there is any such policy of
    premeditated revenge.  If there was, one could suppose that there would
    be many more suspicious deaths and "accidental" killings - but not of
    the kind that predominated in South Africa.  If there was such a
    policy, we wouldn't even know it - your so-called SAS victim would
    probably have died quietly in his sleep, heart attack.
    
    Even if by some small chance the Valhalla book was true, people in the
    UK are now much less inclined to care if some summary justice is
    dispatched by a hit team operating in the US.  After all,  it takes
    millions of dollars of Noraid money to buy shiploads of East European
    weapons, which arrive courtesy of your good friend Col. Qhaddhafi.
    (This is NOT a fantasy novel - the police find the weapons, customs men
    catch the money couriers and grieving families bury the innocents.) The
    real twist is that given the IRA's propensity for killing innocents the
    *whole* community in NI is fast losing sympathy.   Revenge starts to
    feel good and humanitarian instinct loses out. 
    
    Do me a favour - don't sit here in the US in front of your TV with a
    bag of popcorn and trivialise the death of real victims of the insanity
    by watching this bullshit.  The next time you go to an Irish event in
    the US, ask where the money is going.  Get politically active - force
    your representatives to stop the cash-for-weapons.  Put political
    pressure on the British Government to impose egalitarian policies in
    Northern Ireland.  Don't just look for justification.
    
    Regards,
                                                         
    Colin
    
    
    
    
    

    re .1
    
     You seem to be pretty cavalier about your perceptions, Colin.
    Have you stopped to consider that while the activities and errors
    of the IRA are splattered all over TV, radio and the press, the
    activities of the British Army are essentially never publicized,
    except in those cases of public and undeniable brutality.
    
     In EVERY conflict there are grievances, and to cast a blind eye
    to the motivations involved is to distort reality.  
    
    Look beyond the headlines.
    
    Thanks
    
    Frank
    
     

    
    Colin,
    
    Pretty strong words about NORAID and us watching our tv's.  I can
    damn well assure you that some of us don't take the Northern Ireland
    situation lightly.  We also don't rely on the tv as our sole source
    of information I call Belfast at least once a week for news we NEVER
    see here.  You tell us yanks to get politically active I will assure
    that most of the yanks you see in this file ARE politically active.
    And do me a favor   get off the cash-for-weapons sh*t it is old
    and proven to be VERY inaccurate.  The NORAID unit I know is in
    the process of buying a new van for the dependents of the political
    prisoners in Long Kesh so they will have transportation to visit
    there husbands/fathers.  So to answer your question YES I know where
    the money is going.
    
    And also Colin if you can give me some pointers on how to write
    HMG I would appreciate it.  I must be doing something wrong the
    way I have been doing it for the past 8 or so years because I have
    had no impact to date.......
    
    I find it extremely offensive when YOU make the assumption we in
    the US trivialise the death of ANY civilian victim.  It goes to
    show me how LITTLE YOU know about us and our views on Northern Ireland.
    
    
                                
    paddy

    
    
    re .1                             
    
    	Well spoken and truthfully...
    
    
    Being Irish myself and living in England for the past six years
    I can only say that the IRA, UFF etc etc are a crowd of fu&@(!g
    killers with no more purpose to them than to prolong their mafia
    style existance.
    
    	Where else will you find such organizations dividing up building
    areas (sites) where they can extract money (by forceful means) to
    further their greed...AMERICA...and yes I know there are other countries.
    
    	Why do they kill innocent people for a "cause" that the majority
    of people do not believe in or even care about? What have they gained
    in the last twenty years of stupid mindless violence except a few
    bigoted supporters and many many destroyed families?
    
    	I just wish that they will soon sit down and stop this mindless
    killing because it is getting the six counties nowhere. 	
   
    	I am not supporting the British gov or their policy but at the
    end of the day I have more respect for them than any so called #$)!
    who thinks he/she has a just "cause" to go and kill innocent people.
    
    
    regards
    		Brendan

    
    re .4 (Yuppy)
    
      Calm down before your fine English-bred aneurism bursts.
    
      All that killing of innocents never bothered Maggie.  If you're
    going to point a shaking finger, use BOTH arms, or run the risk
    of being perceived as a bigot.
    
    

    
    
    re: .5 <or run the risk of being perceived as a bigot.>
    
    Or a shoneen ('West' Briton). 
    

    re .5
    
    Had you read my reply in .4 then you would have seen that I disowned
    viloence from the IRA, UFF and also stated that I did not support
    the British gov or their views...now how can that make me a bigot?
    
    	
    	I will not be replying to this topic any more because it may
    get out of control and I dont think this interesting notes file should
    end up in the gutter..
    
    respectfully yours 
    			Brendan.. and not YUPPY
    

    re .5 & .6
    
    What do the non-Yuppy, Non-Shoneen, Non-West Brit, Transatlantic
    armchair warriors, have to say about the latest gallant 'military
    action' in Armagh?
    
    Pat. 

    
    -.1  Pat,
      
    I guess I am one of the armchair warriors. 
    
     I, and the people I have spoken to feel the latest action 
    (along with all the others that injure or kill innocent civilians) 
    is a damn waste and shame. 
    
    I can't imagine any civilized person even thinking that practices or
    events like this one are acceptable wages of war.  I am sickend
    at the thoughts that yet another life is lost needlessly.  I lay blame
    on the IRA and all para-military groups as well as HMG.  I feel they
    all own an equal part in actions like this.  
    
          
    paddy

    RE -1, -2  Amen

    
     War is a terrible thing, and I, more than most, DESPISE killing for
    ANY cause.  
    
     But what do you do when they come to burn you out, or worse?  How
    do you expect people to react when they're subjected to the discrim-
    ination that is experienced in the north which, in many ways, rivals
    the worst suffered by African-Americans in a hundred years?
    
     Whatever else the IRA may be, it is also a legitimate reaction to
    what can only be described as a HOPELESS situation for many people
    there.  Damn it, it's human nature to fight against political, social,
    and cultural oppression that yields no glimpse of change.
    
     The IRA is ruthless, their methods are blundering, ill-conceived, and
    often downright STUPID.  They're quite simply as hopeless as the 
    circumstances that gave rise to them.
    
     But their existence is DEMANDED by the situation.  If it wasn't the
    IRA, it would be some other group (or groups) to raise hell.
    
     Until the disease is addressed the symptoms will persist.  
    
     I too have no more to say on the subject.
    
          
    

I have a tendency to over-simplify most subjects and even poke fun at them;
however, this subject is not one of them.  In an event to understand what
might be done to stop further bloodshed, I had to rely on an analogy as
it's the only way for my simple mind to grapple with both sides of this
issue.

	The patient (Ireland, all of it) has been diagnosed as suffering
from cancer in one of the extremities (the North).  The attending surgeon
(HMG) has provided palliative medicine, at best.  The patient has also
had a banned (since 1933?) surgeon in clandestine attendance.  Unfortun-
ately, the suffering continues because of a lack of proper treatment, and
on the other hand surgical treatment that has cut away large sections
of healthy tissue.  The patient is not thriving.  Both surgeons are
culpable.  Another surgeon (Republic of) has provided comfort and
advice that is largely ignored by the other two.  Possibly, the Board of
Surgeons (EC Parliament?) should investigate the two culpable surgeons
before the extremity, or ultimately the patient, dies.

    I saw an interesting documentary on Swiss French television on Saturday
    afternoon, it was about Mairaid O' Farrell, one of the persons
    assisinated in Gilbraltar by the S.A.S.
    
    It was excellent, it once more exposed the reason that she got involved
    in the Republican Movement. As a child she saw her house broken
    into by Brit soldiers in search of arms, she saw Brit soldiers stop
    and question regularly people in the Falls Road. She saw how the
    Brits operated the curfew in the Catholic areas in the the early
    70's. She saw internment without trial. She saw Diplock courts.

    This caused her to become quickly convinced who was friend and who
    was foe.
    
    The documentary further points out how the assisination was carried
    out in Gibraltar. The S.A.S. were there to kill and they were taking
    no prisioners. 
    
    I was too late to video it. It opens one eyes to see what causes
    a young girl (could be my daughter) to become what she became. Some
    of the documentary showed her as a child in a video taken by her
    uncle, it made me cry a little as I have a daughter and I asked
    myself how a little girl who loved life, Irish dancing, the Irish
    language and the other joys of life could change and eventually
    lose her life to assins bullets in Gibraltar so far from home.
    
    Ren�

>    out in Gibraltar. The S.A.S. were there to kill and they were taking
>    no prisioners. 
     
    She was also there to kill not take prisoners. Remember, many other
    people live in West Belfast and put up with the difficulties of life 
    there but they don't all turn to violence as an answer. A friend of
    mine from Crossmaglen in South Armagh has had his home searched at
    5:00 am in the morning by the British Army but he's never felt the 
    need to kill anyone because of this.
    
    One other point, T.V. documentaries are in general not very objective.
    The producer is more than likely projecting the evidence he finds to
    support his point of view without giving significance to that which
    contradicts his views. I have actually seen this happen when a T.V.
    documentary team were interviewing Irish people, including myself, living 
    in continental Europe. Those people who did not support the producers 
    views found that their interviews ended up on the cutting room floor.
    The resulting program was extremely one-sided and in no way treated
    the subject matter in a balanced fashion. T.V. is an emotive medium
    and you should no more believe everything you see on it than you would
    believe hearsay.
    
    Keith
    

      RE.  -.1
    
      Interesting view of the TV and producers of documentaries.  We
    in the US get the slanted views of the Ruters (sp) News Agency.   
    We see what the governments (GB and US) want us to see.
    
     I have never seen a news clip that showed HMG soldiers after they have
    accidently blown off a childs head with a rubber (baton) bullet.
    But I have seen foot after foot of news clips when the IRA kills
    a soldier or innocent civilian.
     
     I have often wondered why we only see the partial picture and not
    the whole one.  
    
     When I was in West Belfast last year a 15 year old boy was shot
    accidentially and killed, not one word of it in the US.  I guess
    the soldiers mistake wasn't newsworthy. 
    
     Shame, this headset is a damn shame.
                              
    paddy

 - .12 
    
    A lot of people in the Republic would like to find some way of digging
    a large canal around the border in the hope that Northern Ireland would
    float way off into the North Atlantic !
    
    DC.

    Leaprechauns are flabbergasted.
    
    re -1
    
    That was the greatest load of cobblers that I've ever read.
    
    Those of us who know better know well that such a civil engineering
    project is not on, now or ever.  This is the classical symptom of
    the thinking that says if I put my head under the blanket the
    boogie-man will go away.  Like fear the issue must be confronted
    to make it disappear.
    
    Interestingly as far as the U.K. is concerned this "project" is
    more appropriate and even more likely to be successful since there
    is already a fine stretch of water between Ireland and England and
    that would mean that Ireland is off to the west of there out in
    the Atlantic.  No????
    
                      
    Snake is tired of the I'm all right jack - you must be wrong
    mentality.