Conference tallis::celt

    
    
    I would spell it Turlough .... I know some guys in Ireland named
    that - definately look like incarnations of thunder on monday mornings!
    
    its pronounced THUR-LOCK.... nice name...
    
    Ann
                     
    

    
    
    
    	O'Carolan would be proud.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	keVin

    
    
    And what does O'Carolan mean - they mentioned that too!
          
         
    Thanks, 
    JO'R

    
    
    	O'Carolan's first name was Turlough.
    
    	Who is O'Carolan?
    
    	He was a bard who travelled around all the big houses of Ireland
    	during the 18th century playing his harp and composing music
    	in honour of his patrons. He was also blind. Quite a bit of
    	his music survives and has been recorded by the Chieftans and
    	Planxty to mention a few. Every year there is an O'Carolan festival
    	in Keadue , Co. Roscommon to celebrate the man & his music.
    
    	Maurice (Who is chuffed at Ireland beating England 1-0 in the
    	         European soccer championships) 

    Leaprechauns will give you the meaning.
    
    Turlough (pro: Turluck), is the gaelic for a vanishing lake.
    
    In low-lying limestone areas lakes appear when the water-table is
    high (usually wintertime), and then dissappear again. There is one
    about 2.5 miles from the DEC plant in Galway -- the cattle are grazing
    happily on it at the moment.
    
    There is a place about 8 miles north of Galway city called Turloughmore
    (meaning big turlough), and its often shortened to Turlough, when
    its being referred to in conversation. They also have a heck of
    a good hurling team based in their parish.
    
    So vanishing lake is the real meaning of the word.
    
    T�irneach (pronounced tore-nyuch) is the gaelic for Thunder, and
    it is a similar word, - hence the confusion.
    
    Snake has the gift.
    
    

    I've always thought that Turlough o'Carolan was the anglicization
    of the bard's name. I've always seen it spelt:
    
    	Toirdhealbhach � Cearbhall�in
    
    in Gaelic.
    
    	Now, is Toirdhealbhach the traditional Gaelic spelling of the
    word for the Burren's vanishing lakes? Can any Gaelic scholar around
    here confirm it?
    
    BTW: If you haven't yet been in that incredibly beautiful part of
    Clare, the Burren, go and see it at the first occasion. The barren
    rocks of the mountains, the vanishing lakes in the valleys along
    with the caves and megalithic monuments are really something else.
    You feel like you were on some other planet.
    I'll be myself back there in two weeks for the Willie Clancy Festival
    in Milltown Mallbay, then North to Galway, Spiddal, and then Donegal.
    Vacation time again!...
    			Denis.

    Leaprechauns would need an old-Irish scholar.
    
    Re .6
    
    Denis, your spelling is correct, that much I know, however whether
    it is the Gaelic spelling of Turlough or not I cannot tell. I think
    I would need an academic scholar of the language to get the exact
    meaning of O'Carolan's christian name. There may be a connection
    with old-Irish here.
    
    Snake will try harder --- yo! Avis.
    

I got the attached mail recently which may be of interest to readers here...

	Craig

 ------ Forwarded mail received on 1-MAY-1991 at 19:39:02 ------

From:	DECWRL::"GAELIC-L%[email protected]" 
		"GAELIC Language Bulletin Board" 
To:	Craig Cockburn <SYSTEM::cockburn> 
Subj:	Ainmneacha na midhe / Gaelic month names 

        I'm posting this in English to reach the maximum audience ...
 
        Further to Craig Cockburn's postings of Gaedhlig month names and
in response to an enquiry about the names of the months in Irish
D�ibh� � Croin�n of History in UCG sent me the following amazing list
which was published in April 1903 in 'Banba'. They were contained in a letter
written around 1850 by a P�draig Phiarais C�nd�n from New England to Youghal
wherein he declares that Irish posseses five names for everything according to
who is speaking; he names the five groups as shown from B�arla na Feinne to
Gn�ith B�arla. I have found all these groups in Dineen and they are as
follows:
 
B�arla na Feinne         The dialect of the Old Irish Law tracts.
B�arla na bhFil�         The poets' dialect.
B�arla Eadarscartha      The 'parted' language - an old dialect.
B�arla Teibhide          Old dialect of the physicians - abridged speech.
Gn�ith Bh�arla           Ordinary speech.
Sacs-Bh�arla             English.
 
Here follows the list of names as given by C�nd�n:
 
1            2            3            4            5            6
 
Sacs-        B�arla       B�arla       B�arla       B�arla       Gn�ith-
Bh�arla      na Feinne    na bhFil�    Eadarscartha Teibhide     Bh�arla
--------     --------     ---------    ------------ --------     --------
January      Aimrid       Iat�n        Spaidre      Fuidid�n     Fiunaire
February     Feagh�ra     Ruaidhuaire  Gruagaire    Lingire      Faoilte
March        Oilleasgul   Garbh�n      Stuac�n      M�raire      M�rta
April        Caomhchaoin  Britire      Stuanaire    M�nire       Abr�n
May          Formhart     P�ir�ibh     Luimh�n      Glasarga     B�ilteine
June         Ingtreasbach Gealgach     Tn�ite�n     Bolgan       Meitheamh
July         Irspirteach  Galaorga     Siomarga     Lochran      Imliog�n
August       Rathumult�s  Toghasc�n    Tuirteach    Rathfartach  Lughnasa
September    Rumhurta     Troghamnta   Deastaire    Fleascaire   Suidheithre
October      Sosf�s       Dil�ngeach   Tiumurga     B�omaire     S�gaire
November     M�ithr�ng    Sleascaire   S�onaire     Cr�imire     Samhain
December     Meirigin     Cr�onaire    Seiriceach   Maoilbheann  Easbhafuilt
 
 
        What surprises me about the lists is  firstly the idea that
different professional groups had their own chronological terms - it must
have made interdisciplinary activities quite difficult to schedule! Secondly
of the list of 'Gn�ith-Bh�arla' names so far as I know everybody now only
use six of these - of the other six Fiunaire, Faoilte, Imliog�n, Suidheithre,
S�gaire and Easbhafuilt I have come across Faoilte occasionally in
proverbs. Dillon and � Croin�n in "Teach Yourself Irish" remark that 'Ianair',
'Feabhra' and 'I�il' are "old names now restored through the schools", yet
none of these names appear in Condon's list? So does anyone know where our
present list of names come from? Lastly it is noticeable that many of
the names end in '-[a]ire' - can anyone say why this is?
 
        I have found meanings for just a few of the names, which all seem to
have a simple adjectival quality -
 
Aimrid          Barren - appropriate enough for January
Caomhchaoin     Gentle/mild - which suits April
Faoilte         The dying or weakened kalends - which suits February
Garbh�n         The rough one - which suits March
Maoilbheann     Bare peaks - which suits December
 
 
        If anyone can throw any light on the meanings and origins of
these names I will be grateful for the information. And if anybody is further
interested Banba has also a poem "Ar dh� mh� d�ag na bliadhna" which is
taken from a manuscript dated to 1139 in which the months and
their lengths are described starting from March and yet another five different
names are introduced. Condon himself also uses twelve names which agree
with the Gn�ith-Bh�arla list only for three months! How very confusing!
 
        Finally I notice that only three of Craig Cockburn's list of Gaidhlig
month names coincide with the Irish names viz. Am Ma\rt, Lu\nasdal and
An t-Samhainn, and though 'Faoilte' shows up as 'Faoilteach' it has moved to
January?  What then is the relationship between Gaidhlig and Gaelic month
names?
 
dmc
 
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Reply-To: GAELIC Language Bulletin Board <GAELIC-L%[email protected]>
Sender: GAELIC Language Bulletin Board <GAELIC-L%[email protected]>
From: MCCARTHY%[email protected]
Subject:      Ainmneacha na midh�Gaelic month names
X-To:         [email protected]
To: Craig Cockburn <SYSTEM::cockburn>

All,
	Is anyone out there in the Reading (England) area interested in
learning Gaelic? (Irish or Scottish)

There are plans to try and get Irish (Gaelige) classes going in Reading. 
These would probably be aimed at the complete beginner and would run once
a week at some venue in the town centre, perhaps the Irish centre. 
Hopefully these classes would be around �40 a year.

I'm also trying to organise a one day Scottish Gaelic (G�idhlig) seminar
in the town centre, this would be led by John Angus Macleod (a fluent
native speaker who won the Bardic crown at the '72 Mod). This would be
about �5 for the day (including food).

Prices for both are rough at the moment, and may well change. However, if
you're interested in either event, or know anyone who may be interested
in either event, then could you get in touch with me please.

Alternatively, for the Scottish Gaelic, you can get in touch with John
Angus Macleod at:

5 Berkeley Crescent, 
Lydney, 
Gloucestershire, 
England
GL15 5SH  
Tel: 0594 842750

    Craig,
    
    You are a man after my own heart. It is great to see that people are
    beginning to learn or trying to learn the Gaelic again.
    
    We are trying to get something going here in France/Switzerland.
    
    Best of luck.
    
    Slainte
    
    Rene

Scottish Gaelic (G�idhlig)

I'm organising a one day Scottish Gaelic seminar in Reading, this will
be held on Saturday the 3rd of August and will cost �5 inclusive of
tea, coffee, biscuits and buffet. The aim of the day will be to allow
learners of all levels to gather together, exchange information, learn
a few Gaelic phrases and maybe sing a song or do some poetry. The day
will be led by a fluent native speaker (ie not me!!) and will run from
about 10am to 6pm. If you're interested, or know anyone who might be
interested in this, could you put them in touch with me please. 


Irish Gaelic (Gaeilge)

I know various people who are keen to get Irish classes going on a 
weekly basis, if you know anyone who is interested in attending or
teaching these classes, can you put them in touch with me please.


Welsh (Gymraeg)

Reading Adult College is getting quite a few enquiries from people
who are interested in learning Welsh. If you know anyone who is 
also interested in learning, or who could teach such a class, can
you get them to contact Mrs Lilian Waites at Reading adult college
on (0734) 575575

thanks/ moran taing/ Go raibh maith agat / (sorry, I don't know the Welsh
for thanks!)

Craig

    Well, I took Craig's advice (.11) of three-and-a-half years ago and
    rang Mrs Lilian Waites on 01734 575575 and asked about Welsh lessons. 
    
    They started YESTERDAY!!
    
    There are still vacancies on the course. Here are a few details:
    
    It takes place on Wednesday evenings in Reading, Berkshire, England, at
    the Wilson Centre, Wilson road, Reading. It's from 7:30 to 9 pm. The
    cost for a term of ten lessons is apparently UKP 33.10 .
    
    Wilson Road is apparently somewhere near the football (soccer) ground.
    

    Could someone list the Irish pronouns?  Particularly second person
    singular and plural, meaning the equivalents for the English "you" and
    "you".
    
    The real question is, does Irish have a different word for "you" plural
    than it has for "you" singular?
    
    Thanks,
    
    -- Jim

me'	I/me
tu'	you (s)
se'	he
si'	she
sinn	we
sibh	you (pl)
siad	they

    
    .God bless the EC.....An italian giving a (perfect) translation of
    Gaelic -)
    
    MAuro,..where did you pick it up..????
    

>.God bless the EC.....An italian giving a (perfect) translation of Gaelic -)
Go raibh math agat

>MAuro,..where did you pick it up..????
That's one of the very few things I've learnt from a booklet-course I bought
some years ago in Ireland...  the thing that most discourage me from learning
more is the pronunciation that takes a double bounce through english ...

Sla/n

I wonder if there is a Gaelic word for second-hand and/or flea-market ?

Just curious,
Go raibh maith agat.

mf

Ar athreic = second-hand.
E.g. Cheannaigh m� an gluaiste�n ar athreic (I bought the car second-hand)

The idea of there being a difference between new and second-hand goods, though,
is a capitalist marketing ploy which the Irish (on whom there are no flies) never 
fell for, and there is no particular value in Ireland of boasting that you got a new 
car rather than a second-hand one (in fact, many people will look at you pityingly, 
as if you'd never learned the facts of life). There is certainly no (simple) term for 
a market where just (or mainly) second-hand goods are for sale. However, you can
sell *anything* at a market (even *new* goods). Market = margadh. If you really 
want to specify that it's a market for second-hand goods (I don't think fleas can
withstand Irish winds), you can say "margadh do earra� athchaite", a market
for (re-)used goods, or margadh bric-a-brac if the goods are particularly
flea-bitten.

    Ta "midges" agam :v)
    
    That's one thing which always amazed me Brendan, was that second hand
    goods, cars in particular, sold at much higher prices in Ireland than
    here in the US, all things being equal. As you stake it strikes of a
    much deeper difference in the culture, extreme market-driven capitalism
    versus how do say, a society built on acceptance, pragmatism,
    functionality. Although this is changing in Ireland too. Each trip
    I notice Ireland becoming more like the US, for better or worse.
    
    I'll tell you though the Irish are much more adept at fixing cars!
    
    /g
                                                          

    Anyone know the gaelic word for 'Wheat'
    
    Thanks,
    
    Gerry

    >  Anyone know the gaelic word for 'Wheat'

      The Irish word for Wheat is cruithneacht

                      Mark

    Thanks Mark
    
    Why I was asking was that a friend of mine just got an Irish Wheaten
    dog and wants an appropriate name for it. I don't think that
    cruithneacht will fit too well.  
    
    Any suggestions ???
    
    Gerry

    
    
    
    Gerry,
    
    What's a Wheaten dog? Never heard of that.
    Give us a brief description (color, size) of "Wheaty".
    
    We had an Irish Terrier named "Fondee" because the Cork relatives
    would say to us when we were leaving "...just give us one
    more fondee...", meaning kiss. Anyone ever heard that? 
    
    I suppose "Sucking Diesel" isn't appropriate.
    
    :v)
    

    I believe they are a Terrier of some sort, the same colour as wheat,
    and about 14-15 inches at the shoulder. They have a short tail and long
    hair.
    
    I believe that they originated in Ireland as a farm dog. Maybe they are
    called something different over there.
    
    Gerry

    
    
    "Maybe they were called something else over there ....."
    
    Gerry thats one that really begs a response, like they are called
    ..... but this is a Notesfile.

    >>I believe they are a Terrier of some sort, the same colour as wheat,
    >>and about 14-15 inches at the shoulder. They have a short tail and long
    >>hair.
    
    Is this the dog that was with you and your son when you came across the
    bear?
    
    Maybe you should call it, "Dances with bears".
    
    Or, sticking with the wheat theme:
    
    		Marquess
    		Durum semolina
    		"graine"  ;^)
    
    Pat

    I like Pat's suggestions of "Gra/inne" the best.
    
    
    Others: how about "Maize", not the prison, but Corn.  :v)
    
    Or "Coirce" meaning Oats and similar sounding to that great county.
    
     

    Thanks Pat and George
    
    No Pat it's not the same dog. Anyhow thanks for the suggestion. I think
    Gr�inne might fit very well. I'll pass it on.
                         
    	Gerry