Conference tallis::celt

    
    re -.1
    
Q:  How can someone who has never been to Ireland be Very Irish ??
    
A: They think they are but, unfortunately, they're not.
    
    It annoys me that a lot of Americans call themselves Irish based
    on the fact that their parents/grandparents were Irish and they
    are entitled to Irish passports. Possessing an Irish passport does
    not mean one is Irish (in the true sense of the word) it takes a
    lot more than that I'm afraid..... and I'm not just talking about
    wearing Aran sweaters and drinking Guinness !!
    
    
    Anyway,
    	  Renee don't take the above personally it's just your note
    sparked the flame. The nicest present to give someone interested
    in Ireland is a return ticket for a holiday, if it's affordable.
    
    
    		Mit freundlichen Gru�en,
    			Blob........
    

    RE .1
    
    How can you make a judgement on this guy without knowing a little
    more about him. Maybe he was born in Ireland, for all you know,
    which would make him more Irish than most people in this file. One
    way or another its not up to you to decide what he is or isn't.
    My kids were born in Ireland, and we moved to Canada three years
    ago. I would hope that they would always regard themselves as being
    Irish, if we decide to stay here for good.
    
    RE .0
    
    It really depends on how much you are willing to spend.
    Aran Sweaters are nice gifts and very "Irish". If you are not spending
    a lot of money, you could buy him some albums of good Irish music.
    There is lots of information on these earlier in the Notesfile.
    A Claddagh Ring is about as Irish as you can get, and an excellent
    gift. 
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Regards,
    
    Gerry

    Leaprechauns like the idea.
    
    Re .1
    A bit picky.... We should be proud of, and enjoy the fact that people
    like to affiliate with us no matter what their coulour or creed
    is, not to mention race in this instance. Isn't this what makes the
    17th March the day it is. 
    However you did mention two gift ideas (Aran sweaters & Guinness).
    
    You could try getting him a bottle of Irish whiskey to do the litmus
    test on Irishmen --- it dosen't make us drunk - just frisky. :-)
    Join him up with the local division of A.O.H. (ref KeVin Burns).
    
    There are many well bound volumes of books on many aspects of Ireland
    available over there in the best bookstores. Irish Folklore is a
    massive repository for humour, heroism, and horror - something for
    every taste.
    
    Snake is the real thing.
    
    

    I agree with Gerry and Snake.  To understand Irish-Americans' pro Irish
    attitudes, you have to realize that when Irish came to the US, they
    were the FIRST wave of immigrants to the new world.  They were Irish
    Catholics entering a Protestant America.  Lots of discrimination.
    Even my aunts remember "Irish need not apply" signs.
    
    The overzealous Irishness is a desire to belong to an ethnic group
    of which they feel a part and to remember their ancestors trials
    and tribulations.

    A friend of mine from West Belfast came to New York 7 years ago.  He
    told me he was amazed at these Irish-American people and how they
    were really trying to identify themselves.  He then remarked that
    if Ireland herself, had as much patriotism as these people, then
    the country would be far better off.
    
    Renee, an Aran sweater would be a great gift.
    
    Sl�n,
    -george

    It's Renee again.  Thanks for all the helpful hints.  If I get him
    the right things maybe he'll take me to Ireland. 
    
    When I said that he "very Irish"  it's not because he was born in
    Ireland it's because he's proud of where his parents came from.
     
    And there's no crime in saying I'm Irish even though your not from
    Ireland. But, Blob, there was no offence taken.
    
    The thing is, that I'm English (My Mom is off the Boat), and I'd
    like to know if any of you support the I.R.A. and why.  Before you
    all start to plan a lynch party let me tell you some of my views.
    I believe in the I.R.A., and some of the things their doing. In
    ways their going about it in the wrong way. War doesn't always bring
    peace.  I believe the English soldiers should leave Ireland, but....
    I believe the English citizens have the right to have protection
    and if the English soldiers where to leave then so would the English
    people to now live in Ireland.  Now the Irish may say go leave,
    but the English people have been living there for generations, why
    should they have to leave.  Just because their passports are differnt
    or that their fathers father belived in England.  But I think that
    if they stayed and the soldiers left their would be civil war between
    them.  Because if the Irish hate the English so much they would
    kill those who stayed in Ireland.  The English are probley more
    Irish then English anyway.  I just don't understand?????
    
    well i hope i get some feed back from those who read this so maybe
    I can see the other side's story.
    
    Now it's my turn to say I hope I didn't offened anyone with my
    comments. And maybe we'll all learn alittle about what's going on!
    
    thanks and regards,
    
    Renee
      

    RE .1
           FLAME ON
    
           GET REAL PAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    DON'T EVEN THINK THAT BECAUSE ONE HASN'T BEEN TO IRELAND ONE ISN'T
    " VERY IRISH ".  FOR SOME OF US AMERICANS BEING IRISH ISN'T OUR
    ABILITY TO DRINK A BREW OR WEAR A PIECE OF CLOTHING OR RELATE TO
    A FUNNY LITTLE IRISH TUNE.  BEING IRISH IS IN THE HEART,THE MIND,
    THE THOUGHT,THE SPOKEN WORD AND IN AFFECT IT TOUCHES EVERY ASPECT
    OF OUR LIVES.  IT HAS BEEN SAID ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS THAT SOME OF
    US ARE MORE IRISH THAN PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE. I INVITE YOU HERE
    TO ASSOCIATE WITH MY FRIENDS TO AT LEAST BECOME MORE INFORMED ON
    OUR ABILITY TO BE " VERY IRISH ".  
                                     FLAME OFF !!!!!!
    
    Now to the request for help.  There are a number of shops in the
    Boston area you can go to.  It would help if we knew his interests.
    Does he like  history, music, jewerly, clothing, etc.
    
    Some of my most prized gifts are history books on Ireland from 1900
    to the present 'Troubles'.
    
    paddy
      
    

    Renee there's many places in this conference where the role and
    history of the IRA and the British presence there are discussed.
    I'm sure if you look at a directory listing you'll spot them easily.
    This is probably not a good place to reopen that discussion, but
    a couple of points which are important - 
    	the troops in Northern Ireland are British, not English. As
    someone who lives with a Scots woman I have learned to differentiate.
    We English are guilty of many kinds of Imperialism, and refering
    to Britain as England is an example of our linguistic/cultural
    domineering. The Protestants who live in the North are not English
    either, they're Irish. The troops aren't there to protect a minority
    of English people who could leave if the troops left, it's a lot
    more complicated than that.
    
    Do look elsewhere Renee, one of the great things about this conference
    is the way many points of view are exchanged, but we need to control
    where they are located (Said he who had just been guilty of the
    opposite of that!)
    
    Phillip

    
    RE -.1
    
    > FOR SOME OF US AMERICANS BEING IRISH ISN'T OUR ABILITY.......
    
    Strange reading to me !!. Unfortunately you've caught me on a bad day
    and as the title correctly reads the Irish are a picky People. I
    can't understand why Americans or whatever aren't proud of being
    American or Irish-American but I just feel that people who are brought
    up in (say America for example) USA have American values, principles
    etc. which in the main don't coincide with ours. I reckon Americans
    who've been to Ireland will know what I mean. At least the instigator
    of this note respects my views as do I hers.
    
    	-- Blob the Canadian (well my parents got married there !!)

      
    Sorry, 
    	  .8 refers to .6 and not .7
    
    		- Blob

    RE Blob:  No, Ronnie isn't a Paddy, nor is he Irish-American in
    my views.  Anything but.
    
    RE Paddy and Blob:   I understand what Blob is referring to in that
    Americans (be it Irish or otherwise) have different customs than
    Irish people.  But Irish-Americans are still really Irish even despite
    a few have lime green pants, polyester track suits, and somewhat
    less subtle mannerisms.   Irish-Amer. are a culturally distinct group in
    the US who have, as Paddy puts it, Irish in their thoughts, words,
    views, beliefs, etc.  If you grew up in a melting pot of every
    imaginable ethnicity, you would understand better what I mean.

    My kids are 7/8ths Irish and 100% American with a German name.
    The Irish is from all over and includes the landed gentry from
    Tyrone and the meat cutters from Cork.  But we're proud of it
    all.

    
    
    re. .10
    
    
    	I thought "Ronnie" had roots in Bally-Poteen !!   8=)
    
    
    
    	keVin
    

         ONLY, if you're as blind as he, and intellectually capable
    of accepting an altered Birth Register!

    Renee,
    
    	If your boyfriend likes Irish music, there are many choices:
    
    Traditional:	The Chieftains
    
    Ballads:		The Dubliners (drinking songs etc)
    
    Punk!:		The Pogues (opps maybe they're not irish;-)
    
    Christy Moore:	Christy Moore
    
    Duelling tin-whistles:	Mulligan & O'Sullivan (keVin Burns can
    				give you a first hand account of this
    				underrated and extraordinary talent)
    
    Body noises:		Don Topaz (Hot Dogs, chips and beer
    					   a speciality)
    
    and many many more...

    Surely that mysterious figure, noter of noters, Mr_Topaz is not
    Irish?! Crikey, I thought he was a figure of someone's imagination.
    
    Who/where/what is he?
    
    Perplexed of Welwyn

    
    
    
    	re . 14 & .15 
    
    
    
    	Just remember   "You asked for it"	:-)
    
    
    
    
    	keVin
    

       To all of my brothers of Erin, and to Mr O'Sullivan as well -- 
       
       I am confused.  I'm not at all sure about lineage, but in my
       coffee cup, in my laundry basket, and in the kitchen sink there
       are lots of green things.  I think that makes me part Irish. 
       
       L'chaim,
       
       --Mr Topaz

On being Welsh:

Sorry to shift the subject, but hey!  There are no notes in this conference
on Wales!  Aren't there any Welsh out there at all?  

But what I was going to say was, that there are surely many ways of being
Irish, just as there are many ways of being Welsh.  I found out that
simply visiting Wales can be enough to make you Welsh - we fell in love
with the land and people and were promptly adopted by all and sundry.
At the Eisteddfod they have a "Wales and the World" ceremony in which
all the wandering Welsh present get to go up on stage.  They tried to
get us to go, even though my <1% British background is almost certainly 
English.  But in their eyes, just coming and trying to speak Welsh was 
enough to make us Welsh.  

So be careful.  It happened to me, it could happen to you.  

	Enjoy,
	Larry

PS - A lot of people thought we were English - so perhaps Americans aren't
quite so obvious as the stereotypes lead one to believe.  I was impressed
how many Welsh nationalists treated us nicely even though they thought
we were The Enemy.  I guess the Welsh share the English trait of hating
their enemies in the abstract, but being nice to them in person.

    An Aran Jumper is very dear, How much do you like this guy??
    
    P.S. Don't worry about these slurryhead's comments, I know from
    experience that just about anything will get the lads started on
    a marathon verbal volleyball... I was born in Killarney, so I
    have often been the brunt of many a Kerry joke.. However, Irish
    are those born and raised in the unique environment of Ireland
    Irish_Americans are those raised in the great boiling pot of
    America desparately trying to understand there Irish parents.

    < Note 302.16 by STEREO::BURNS "Britannia Waives The Rules" >
    
                -< Clear the track, I think I hear a train ... >-
    		
    		Another man who has progressed since I last *heard*
    		him.
    

    Dermot forgot to mention Mary Black. She has just issued a new album.
    	regards
    	Martin