Conference tallis::celt

    I never heard the story about at least one grandparent being born
    in Ireland for you to obtain citizenship, I know several people
    from the states that went over and got it with no ancestry from
    Ireland at all.  I was born there and I have duel, I understand
    some think you can't do that either,  Clarify!  What are the rules
    
    Slan,  C.J.

    Hi,
    	About dual citizenship - the United States doesn't recognize
    it even though other countries do.  However when I because a
    U.S. citizen I am still British and am considered there a British
    subject which means I do not have any restrictions on entering
    and leaving the country which a normal U.S. citizen does.  For
    example length of stay stamped and the need for work permits.  I
    would image there is a similar sort of thing with Ireland.  The
    problem is the United States.
    						Hazel Donaldson

    Hazel's right.  The US doesn't recognize dual citizenship, but they
    usually don't harass one for having another allegiance, as long
    its not an eastern bloc country.
    
    Many of my friends have dual citizenship with Ireland, France, Britain,
    or wherever.  Some time ago (clarify me if I'm wrong) anyone who
    had proof of any lineage to Ireland could apply for and get Irish
    citizenship.  But now, it only applies if one of your 4 grandparents
    were born in Ireland.  Having your Irish citizenship entitles your
    children to apply for citizenship (though I'm uncertain as to what
    claims they have to make)
    
    No longer though, does Ireland have those beautiful small green
    passports with the harp on them.  To prevent tampering and to conform
    to the EEC, they now have big blue ugly passports.
    
    George

    
    By the way, there is Scottish Highland Games in Lincoln NH at Loon
    Mountain this weekend.  Looks like a good time if the weather permits.
    
    Anyone hear of the humungous fungus (mushroom) found in Listowel,
    Kerry, supposedly the size of a refrigerator?  Found on the farm of
    Gerard Long. [from Weekly World]
    
    

�	If your parents were born in Ireland, then
�	you are considered Irish, and are not allowed to apply.     

    	I'm not allowed to apply? What do I have to do then to get
    	an Irish passport?
    
    							mike

    
    
    			
    
    			"IRISH NEED NOT APPLY"
                        
    
    
    
    
    
    	keVin

    You're already an Irish citizen if your parents were born in
    Ireland.   So you can't apply for citizenship.  As far as the
    passport is concerned I'm not sure.  There must another mechanism
    for that.
    
    George
    
    Up Cork!  Any Meathians out there?

    Leaprechauns don't recognise cork.
    
    Re .-1
    Hush, my sweet garsoon, you speak too soon.
    
    Snake saw what happened.
    

    RE: .-1
    
    	Who are you?
    
    							me_haul

    What's with your man, foley.  Who the hell do you think I am.  I'm
    an Irish living in the states and by mistake.  Snake, give this
    guy a puck for me he sounds abusive.
    
    christie kate

    
    
    	What's with me? Just a wee bit of muckin' about.. My Brother
    	Shnake would only give me a pint..
    
    	I wasn't asking you who you are. Just playing with a snake.
	:-)
    
    							mike

	I think it's time for anyone who knows how to become an Irish
    citizen to admit to it and fess up. There are those of us out here
    who do not want to die of old age, never having oficially been reborn
    into the greater culture of the "old country". Seriously, what is
    the procedure? It would be nice to visit next year as a citizen
    of Ireland, not just a displaced American.

    
    
    	Thanks to Pat Culbert, I have all of the necessary info and
    	forms at home. I will post the exact wording of the cover letter
    	tomorrow....
    
    	Basically, the form states that if either of your parents were
    	born in Ireland, then you ARE an Irish citizen, and therefore
    	cannot apply for citizenship.
    
    	More news tomorrow / film at 11   :-)
    
    
    
    	keVin
    
    
    

    Leaprechauns may be able to offer a perception.
    
    I think there may be some confusion here.
    The form used by Irish embassies abroad are different than those
    used for passport applicants in Ireland. It might well be that in
    the event that YOU ARE an Irish citizen, then the formality of 
    application is different than if you are trying to ESTABLISH your
    right to Irish citizenship. Either way there is a process of
    application for a passport. 
    
    Snake has to do it (once every ten years --- for �30).
    

    
    				IRISH CITIZENSHIP
				=================

	

	The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956, Article 6 (2) states
	that every person one of whose parents was an Irish citizen at the
	time of the person's birth, is an Irish citizen. Under the provisions 
	of the Act a person, any of whose grandparents was born in Ireland,
	shall on registration of his birth in the Foreign Births Entry Book
	maintained at an Irish Diplomatic or Consular Mission, become an Irish
	citizen.

	

	In order to qualify for citizenship in this fashion the Irish 
	authorities do not require that the appliciant renounce any other 
	citizenship which he/she may have held or holds at the time of the
	application, however U.S. citizens should check with the U.S. 
	authorities at to the official U.S. attitude on their acquisition of
	Irish citizenship.


	To effect registration of one's birth in a Foreign Births Entry Book
	it is necessary that the applicant submit the following documents:

	1.	The applicant's birth certificate in the full form, showing the
		name and birthplace of both parents.

	2.	The birth certificate in the same form of the applicant's 
		parent through whom citizenship is derived (and parent's 
		marriage certificate if derived through the mother).

	3.	The birth certificate of the applicant's grandparent through
		whom Irish citizenship is claimed (and grandparent's marriage
		certificate if derived through a grandmother).

	The fee for registration is $72.50 for those 18 years of age or older.
	The fee is 23.25 for those under the age of 18 years.
	A certificate of the registration cost an additional $3.00

	We require original or certified copies of all documents together with
	a set of photocopied documents for our files.

	Consulate General of Ireland
	535 Boylston Street
	Boston Ma. 02115
	(617)267-9330

    Snake,keVin etc....I am unsure of facts so please correct
    
    1. My wife Mary was born in Boston ( by Irish parents) and returned
    to Ireland at the age of twelve where she has lived until our move
    to Reading two and a half years ago.
    
    2. She holds dual nationality - American/Irish - so depending on
       which passsport she travel under.. Irish today.. she must leave
       her American passport with the American Embassy. If she wanted
       her American passport back she would have to surrender her Irish
       passport to the Embassy.
    
    3. To keep dual nationality she is  prohibited from voting in either
       American OR Irish elections. Once she votes in either country
       she THEN becomes a citizen of that country and loses her dual
       nationality......So as the Department for Foriegn Affairs told
       Mary three years ago Yes you can hold dual nationality but you
       can only be a citizen of ONE country.
    
    Can anybody (Snake??) tell us if this has changed?
    
    At the moment it is handy if I want to go the U.S. because I can
    get a green card.
    
    Regards,
    
    Derek.
    
    

    
    
    	I'll let the "Snake" or someone else attempt to answer your
    	questions as the issue of passports/citizenship appears to be
    	rather complicated. 
    
    	The forms required for obtaining an Irish Passport
        are being sent to me in the US mail, and if they contain any
        valuable information, I will post it here ....    	
               
    	                    
    
    
    	keVin

    Leaprechauns need more.
    
    re.15
    1. Your wife Mary is entitled to U.S. citizenship by birthright.
    
    1a. As her parents were Irish, she is therefore entitled to Irish
        citizenship. As there are no questions as to whether she is
        a U.S. citizen first, then she should possess and renew her
        Irish passport.
    
    2. With regard to dual-nationality the Immigration authorities (U.S.)
       need never be aware of her Irish citizenship (taken out later
       remember she became a U.S. citizen at birth.)
    
    2a. I cannot countenance the U.S. embassy requiring her to surrendur
        her Irish passport to them -- I don't think they have any right
        to it at all at all. This demand would seem to be very wrong
        and even insulting.
    
    3. Your wife cannot vote in an Irish election without being on the
       register of electors. In Ireland anybody (including U.S. citizens)
       can be on the register on condition that they are domiciled here.
       THerefore the business of voting in an Irish election does NOT
       carry any consequence for dual-nationality from an Irish
       perspective.
    
    3a. As for voting in a U.S. election - I don't know their rules
        for registration, but I assume it involves proof of citizenship
        (e.g. A U.S. Passport). Something which your wife should have
        as her birthright. Anyhow few Americans vote compared to the
        European averages.
     
    
    Finally remember that if you emigrate to the U.S. and pay social
    security all your life, and then retire your remuneration/pension
    is severly limited by your "non-U.S. citizen" - green card alien
    status. THis is something my sister told me about (she' a green
    card). But that is another day's work.
    
    Snake says there are professional/legal consultants for this type
    of query. If you think the green card is worth it, you should pursue
    it. 
    

    re.14
    
    Let me get this straight.  
    
    If my mother was Irish, I would have to prove that she was married. 
    [same with grandmother].
    
    On the other hand, if my father or grandfather were Irish, no such 
    proof would be required. [?]
    
    Isn't this a bit backward?  I've never heard of the *maternity*
    of a child being in question [well at least not before the whole
    surrogate brouhaha]
    
    Or is there something that I'm missing?
    
    Annie

    
    
    	That's what the cover letter states ....
    
    
    	Would you like a copy ?
                                
    
    
    	keVin

    My wife and children (grandaughter and great-grandchildren of an
    Irish citizen) applied to the Irish consolute in New York on Dec.
    15, 1986.  At that time they said it would take at least 6 months
    to process the paperwork.  The only communication I have had with
    the consolute since then was a request by me to have them return
    my wifes US passport, so that she may travel.  The passport was
    one of the required pieces of documentation.  They promptly returned
    it and said it would take several more months to process the
    application.  The reason for the long backlog was due to the flood
    of requests generated by the expiration of the provision for
    great-grandchildrens ability to apply.  The application had to be
    recieved by them before Dec 31, 1986. This fact recieved a tremendous
    amount of press in the US and caused everyone to scramble in lat
    Nov and early Dec.
    
    PS Before they applied, I called the State dept. to ask about dual
    citizenship.  The person I talked to was very indifferent about
    it and did not mention anything about the restrictions talked about
    a couple of replys back.  As far as they were concerned, they could
    care less.
    
    
    Hope this helps
    
    Regards,
             Joe D
    

    I was born in a village near Armagh, in the occupied Six Counties,
    which makes me an Irish citizen.   I now live in Reading, England.
    
    Would anybody like my Irish citizenship?   It's yours if you send
    me an 11 by 8 envelope. 
    
    Shane

    How RUDE!  Snake, send him the envelope.

    Leaprechauns have the proper answer.
    
    Re .21
    
    It would suit some of us if you WERE to do exactly as you have
    indicated. Then we could report you and you'd get a nice cosy cell
    for a while. :-)
    
    Snake is nice.
    

    I remember an American friend who had dual-passport/citizenship
    (I'm not sure which) telling me the only restriction he had was
    that he could only travel on one of the passports (I think it had
    to be the U.S. one).  This was quite a few years back so may not
    be up to date information (not to mention inaccurate).
    
    Christ this is some hangover...
    
    -Dermot

    Did not mean to be cause offence - apologies.
    
    Just out of interest, what reasons do people have for wanting
    to become Irish citizens?   Maybe earlier contributors
    would like to have a shot at explaining.
    
    Shane

    Ther are several reasons my wife and chilren claimed their Irish
    citizenship.
    
    1. She believes (and I concur) it will spark additional interest
    in our children about their heritage.
    
    2. If I were to accept a TDY in any EEC country it would allow her
    to get a green card more easily.
    
    3. It would be great to have for St. Patricks day parties here in
    the states.
    
    4. Why not!  Because of the timing restrictions on great-grandchildren
    we didn't have a lot of time to analize the pros and cons.  We deceided
    it would be better to apply and figuire out what to do with it later.
    
    	Hope this helps.
    
    Regards,
    	JOE D