Conference tallis::celt

    >Anyone for devolution or independence?

You're kidding...Right???

    Leaprechauns know that the font of freedom springs eternal.
    
    Re .0
    The best of good luck to you. The best representative you'll ever
    have is yourself.
    Over here there is a Gaelic word for that concept,: Sinn Fein.
    
    Snake will support the undiluted self expression of the Celt.
    

     re .2 (et al.):
     
     > Snake will support the undiluted self expression of the Celt.
     
     Isn't the use of third-person self-reference an indication that the
     author considers himself to be a member of either the royalty or the
     papacy? 
     
     --Mr Topaz

    Leaprechauns are we.
    
    Re .3
    
    Absolutely not.
    
    Snake is only accustomed to wee-wee.
    
    
    

RE:.3, RE:.4
 I think we're off the mark a little.

RE:.0
 I was serious in my reply.  Is this just a personal opinion or a general
feeling through out Scotland.  I think it's interesting to get news about
this situation other than the opinionated tripe we hear and see on the 
nightly news as if the election only took place in London.

	Jack

    I have reported Steve Bell's words elsewhere but here they are again
    anyway- In Scotland the guinea pigs have taken over the laboratory,
    or at least they have tried though I doubt that the Tories will
    respond to all the "drool and drivel".
    
    As an Englishman my opinion on independence or devolution might
    be thought irrelevant here. However, I'm agin independence and for
    more authority being invested in local government - and that should
    involve the restoration of the metropolitan authorities and the
    GLC and the institution of regional bodies throughout Britain, not
    just in Scotland. The North of England is as badly hurt by the present
    arrangement as Wales or Scotland and as long as dickheads like Ridley
    can go around wanting golf courses to be set up I see no way that
    the Tory response to the mess they have created outside the South
    East can be regarded as anything other than cosmetic.
    
    But the superiority of Scottish education is proven once again.
    
    Phillip

RE:.6
 1) If this is to be an open and informative conference, then nobody should
consider an opinion irrelevent.  (No matter how wrong they are??);-)

2)If you are "agin" independence and for more local control, doesn't that go
against everything the British Govrnment stand for?  Isn't the British form 
of government a socialist/monarchy meaning more centralized control?

3)What is meant by "GLC"?

	Jack

    Re .7,.6: GLC: Greater London Council.
    		Denis.

    Apart from the personal opinions about declining quality of government,
    .0 was a question - do any Scots readers have any views on the
    desirability of independence/devolution, in the light of the
    north/south UK electoral divide? 
    
    I'm English myself, by the way, and share the earlier views about
    de-centralising some power in England, but I suspect that won't happen
    without 
    
    (a) pro-PR parties getting to power there (looks less likely)
    and/or
    (b) constitutional changes in England, after Scotland or Wales get some
    devolved power or independence.

    I'm not sure why the locals put up with the treatment they have been
    receiving over the last 8 years, and, to follow an earlier point, there
    are advantages in being your own representative, even if you're not,
    overall, any richer from it. 

        The fact is that Scotland was not alone in the message it gave
    to Whitehall in its election results. you could draw a a ne across
    the country at York and call it the North-South divide and, if Maggie
    could have her way,she would grant independence everywhere North
    of the line (including the North of Ireland). This would eliminate
    a huge drain on her booming Southern economy and allow her to pursue
    her policies without a moderating influence.
        We would watch our infrastructure decay from lack of funds 
    (see Eire). Companies with any would scurry back to the South.
    We would be left with our beautiful countryside and clean air -
    but no jobs! Could we live on tourism?
        Lets face it, the best we can hope for is that Mrs Thatcher
    and her Government take heed of the warnings given and start to
    redress the balance.
    
       Home rule for Geordieland - NO THANKS.
    
    John Boyle
    

    Leaprechauns have heard the economic argument.
    
    Re .10
    >We could watch our infrastructure decay through lack of funds <
    >(see Eire).
    
    Interesting piece of nonsense John, our infrastructure (we need
    a definition here), is now much better than when the British left.
    (I presume you mean Eire to refer to the Republic of Ireland, even
     though you ACTUALLY refer to the island of Ireland).
    It is one of the great falsehoods that infrastructure was much better
    when the British were here, but the historical fact is that this
    is just not true. Irish roads are not up to international standards
    but the ratio of road miles to population is higher in Ireland is
    higher than anywhere in western Europe. Beyond that though, given
    our traffic densities, the road standards are not that bad at all,
    except in the remoter parts where things are much improved since
    the days of the great white Raj. In other areas for instance, our
    telecom system is much better than your British one, yours needs
    a 30 Billion pound upgrade, to get close.
    
    Snake will set the record straight.
    

    Leaprechauns fire the passing shot.
    
    In view of the results of the recent general election and the "dilemma"
    facing Scotland, I am somewhat amazed at the argument doing the
    rounds, that were Scotland to set up a devolved parliament that
    the British Labour party would be decimated. It has been reported
    here in Ireland that Mr. Neil kinnock (leader of the Labour party),
    would be opposed to this development in the interests of his party.
       Is it not appalling that party political interests come before
    those of the people.?????
    
    
    Snake knows that Scotland is trying to find its roots, but 1746
    and Culloden slit the throat of self expression, a cultural renaissance
    is needed first.

     re .11:
     
     Gimme a break.  Let's assume that you didn't make up the statistic
     about the ratio of road miles to population being higher in Ireland
     than anywhere in western Europe.  That statistic is less a reflection
     on the miles of roads in Ireland than it is about the paucity of
     people there.  
     
     Snake set the record straight, on a course to Fantasyland.
     
     --Mr Topaz

re .13:

Are you suggesting that the length and quality of roads needed in an area
is independent of the number of people who use them and how they use them?

In Wales last summer, I noticed that the quality of the roads, on an
absolute scale, was quite a bit below Massachusetts.  And yet, due to
various factors, including the much lower traffic densities and the
greater courtesy of the drivers, I felt that driving in Wales was
overall safer than driving in Massachusetts.  

Still, road quality is side issue in the question of the economic 
effects of independence.  To take the Republic of Ireland as the 
example, is the ratio between spending on the infrastructure of
Ireland and England greater or less than it was back when Ireland was
part of Great Britain?  That might be a truer measure of whether 
Ireland is doing more for itself than Great Britain did for it before
independence.

	Larry

    Hi,
    	As an Americanized Scot with most of my family in Scotland a
    few points:
    
    	Scotland has been receiving this type of "treatment" for much
    longer than 8 years and to change the situation would take a strong
    national will.  It seemed to be starting when they was interest
    in the oil money but that was settled by when there was profit
    it when to London and the Scots having to deal with increased local
    costs - especially the northeast area.  I suppose the only ones
    in Scotland to profit from it were the solicitors that handled
    land/housing deals and contracts.
    	I have for a long time supported devolution.  I think it would
    give a great spurt of activity if power could be located within
    Scotland.  On the other  hand I would not want to happen in
    Scotland what we see in Ireland and I know that attitude is felt
    by a large number of Scots.
    	It is clear that Labour and Conservative party care little about
    the problems in Scotland because they gain their power and influence
    in the London Parliament.  Some of the same problems that Scotland
    has is experienced in the U.S. and Canada but the local State
    legislatures help to meter it a bit which I think could be the
    same function that a Scottish Parliament would provide.
    	Anyway these were just a few wondering thoughts caused by a
    strong desire to see changes in the country that would stop it
    from becoming so dependent on tourist income and let Scots do
    for their own country what they seemed to be forced to do in others.
                                        
    					regards,
    						H.Donaldson
    
    					

>================================================================================
>Note 222.15                 Scottish election results                   15 of 15
>SKYLRK::HAZEL                                        32 lines   1-JUL-1987 18:16
>                         -< Devolution would help!!! >-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    	I have for a long time supported devolution.  I think it would
>    give a great spurt of activity if power could be located within
>    Scotland.  On the other  hand I would not want to happen in
>    Scotland what we see in Ireland and I know that attitude is felt
>    by a large number of Scots.
>

    ...and what do you see in Ireland?
    
    Mike