Conference tallis::celt

    Drew,
        In the New England area, there seems to be more people of Irish
    descent than of Scottish descent.  Also, there's a greater flux
    of people to/from Ireland to US today due to the Irish economic situation.

    	But, I think, more importantly, many Irish-Americans who came
    over in the last half of the 18th and 19th century lost contact
    with their ancestors.  My grandfather who emmigrated here in
    1928 only went back in 1957 for vacation, and his wife never did.
    Subsequently, the 2nd and 3rd generation children are trying to
    re-establish their "roots" - finding out from where they came.
    I don't know if this situation parallels Scottish emmigration.
    
    	I wish to visit Scotland some time soon.  I'm particularly
    interested in visiting the Hebrides and Orkneys.  The scenery
    and castles do rival Ireland's I'm told.
    
    	Also, a few more notes.  Irish culture flourishes in Boston - 
    pubs, restaurants, fairs, shows, music, etc...  Scottish culture
    really has never had as big an impact, except for maybe music.
    
        Scotland also does not promote its tourism in the US like
    Ireland does, in local newspapers, on radio, etc...  Maybe this
    should change?

    George

    p.s.  Send me the tourist info!  Please feel free to add in the
    conference particular spots in Scotland that you feel are worthwhile
    tourist take-ins, Edinburgh for example...

    I don't think my ancestors came from Scotland (who knows), but my
    wife's did way back there.  Would like to get your tourist info.
    
    OGO1-2/F16

    Well, I tried to contact the Scottish Tourist Board yesterday only
    to find that they do not try to start "Touristing" until Tuesday
    27th April, very enterprising ! I will contact them when they open
    for the season and send out the bumf to interested parties.
    
    Drew ( Loch Ness Monster for Sale, Cheap !!!) Sharp

    
    
    	How much for the monster ??     :-)
    
    	Another problem may be that April 27th is NOT a Tuesday !!
    	(May 27th is a Tuesday)
    
    	Drew: Do you know Jim Cormier from "The States" ??
    	      He worked in Ayr for a few years..
    
    
    
    	keVin
    
    

    OOps Tuesday 27th that should be!
    
    No I don't know Jim, I only started here 2 years ago after returning
    from Calgary (good Scottish name), Alberta, Canada. - What am I
    doing back here I constantly ask myself ?
    
    Drew

    
    
    	Calgary is playing Edmonton in the quarter finals of the Stanley
    	Cup Playoffs.....
    
    	Edmonton has won 2 games
    	Calgary has won 1 game
    
    
    	keVin
    

     re .6:
     
     The Irishman has a keen eye for predicting the future.
     
     By tomorrow morning, when Edmonton and Calgary will have played
     their 3rd game (which begins at 9:30 tonight), the standings may
     very well be Edmonton 2, Calgary 1.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    Maybe the Boston Bruins should hire the Loch Ness Monster for next
    year.  Does he play offense?
    
    Send him over!!! 

    re 36.7
    
    Brother Don ... my humble apology (regret for an offense or fault)
    
    I was thinking that Drew would not read my reply until tomorrow,
    due to the "Time Difference"
                                                    
    I am willing to wager a few "jars" on the outcome of the game if
    you like, but I think you tend to agree with my prediction. ;-)
    
    As for being good a judging horseflesh, remember at "The Rock" last
    year, when I bet on 1-2-3-4 and the winner was #5.
    
    I do however know which end of the horse you are !!!  :-)
    (and it's not the end with the eyes)              
    
    

    
    
    	I KNOW ..... "If nothing else, I am consistant"  :-(
    
    
    
    
    	keVin

     Well I hope it was an Irish bookie that got our money, Bro K.
     
     But this has obscured the discussion of Scotland.  And not a one
     of you barstards have even mentioned golf.  Shame on ye.
     
     Listen up, hackers.  For a golfer, playing at St Andrews is like a
     priest meeting the Pope (or so I'm told).  And St Andrews is a public
     course, owned by the town of St Andrews. There are three courses, the
     Old Course (the first one ever), the New Course (about 100 years old),
     and the Jubilee Course, and you can always get to play on one of them.
     
     You can rent clubs from one of the many golf shops in town, though
     it's no hardship to bring your own if you're planning to tour around
     the country.  When you stop off in Ireland on the way home, you'll
     find plenty of courses there, as well.  And don't forget to bring your
     bright plaid golf attire, so that everyone will know that you're a
     Yank.
     
     --Mr Topaz 

    re. 11
    
    What do greens fees run at St. Andrews and at other comparable courses
    in Scotland?  How far in advance must one make reservations?
    
    George
    
    Are plaid pants allowed on the fareways or only on the driving
    range ?  :v))

     Last fall, I believe the weekday fees were �15 for the Old Course, �10
     for the New Course, and I dunno for the Jubilee.  You don't need
     reservations for the New Course and it's difficult to get rezzies for
     the Old (unless you apply months in advance or go with a tour group).
     However, there is a daily lottery for tee times for the Old Course --
     you sign up the day before you want to play, and a list of those
     selected is posted in the late afternoon.  One way or the other,
     you'll play either the New or Old Course.
     
     You can get more information about other courses and golfing in the UK
     by contacting the British Tourist Authority in New York. There is also
     an Irish government tourist office in New York, and they are a good
     source of information.  There are several companies that offer golf
     vacations to Scotland or Scotland and Ireland -- travel agents know
     about those.
     
     --Tommy Bolt 

    Re. Predictions Sounds like a lot of crystal balls to me !
    
    Flames scorch Oilers ! Oilers Flame out !  Were these the headlines
    in the Calgary Herald. I know, there are a few games to go, but
    YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!  Flames seem to be looking better than they've
    done for years.  I do keep up to date with AP news in VTX.
    
    Drew

    
    
    	I give Calgary credit ... They are a "hot" team at the moment
    
    	I was at the "Forum" last month, and saw them beat Montreal.
    
    	Time will tell !!!
    
    	I am hoping for a Hartford-Edmonton final
    
    
    	keVin
    

    Re 11.
    2 types of tourists readily recognized in Edinburgh,
    Japanese wear cameras, Americans are dressed in Tarton Troos.
    Get eon really well and don't get ripped off wear a Canadian badge
    in your lapel, we can't tell the diff. , unless you got a Southern
    accent (we watch Dallas and Dukes of Hazzard)
    Well I guess I've stirred it enough for today.
    
    Drew

    
    
    	 For me to say that Mr.Topaz (dressed in plaid) would "Stand Out" 
         in a crowd ... would be the understatement of the year !!
    
    
    	 I know he's out there watching   :-)
    
                                        
         keVin
    
    

     It was actually a plaid kilt I wore.
     
     An older lady, an American tourist, must have thought I was Scots, and
     she came up to me and asked, "is there anything worn under that kilt?"
     
     "Nay, maam," I replied in me best burr, "it's as good as it e'er was." 

     --Mr Topaz     

    Groan !
    
    On the subject of kilts, a few years ago a film crew scoured the
    "Royal Mile" ie between Holyrood Palace and Edinburgh Castle, looking
    for anyone wearing a kilt, the only man they could find was a German.
    
    Och aye the noo', its a braw bri'ht moonlight ni'ht the ni'ht, in
    German ?
    
    Drew

    My mother's parents were both from Aberdeen.  I took my wife there
    in 1962 on honeymoon.  We went back in 1982 with our two teen-age
    children.  We all love Scotland.  My wife is 1/8th Scottish by
    family, but about 75% by ingestion of single malt Scotch.  Funny,
    I don't like the stuff.  I stick to a pint of the mild, thanks.

    Maybe from being big, with a greying red beard, I was made to feel
    right at home there.  Maybe it was because we so obviously liked
    the place.  Sorry, though, I CANNOT ABIDE HAGGIS!, Bobby Burns or
    no!
    An ersatz scotsman, Phil Bancroft

    Well boys, throw away your crystal balls and pay your bookies !
        
              *     the FLAMES have done it !!!!!!!!     * 
              
    Certainly no Spey wifes out there ! , seriously you really didn't
    think the Oilers would do it, did you ?
                                 
    
    The only thing that bothers me now is that there is nobody over
    here who knows what I'm talking about. Sure we play Hockey over
    here, even the Oilers would take about 30 off our best teams.
    
    
    Drew
    

    Phil,
         Sorry to hear you don't like Haggis, but the Haggis will be
    happy about that, to the uninformed the Haggis is a funny creature,
    its about the size of a rabbit and has its left legs a good 2 inches
    shorter than its right legs and you can often see it running
    anticlockwise around the sides of hills, its quite a dizzy creature
    , really.
    
    A pint of mild ?, we don't drink Mild in this country, only the
    silly English drink mild, we drink Light, Heavy, Lager, Stout and
    of course the real Big G, Guinness (Irish , but it can't be helped)
    You can tell that it's Irish because their promotional Sweatshirt
    is labelled Front on the front, Back on the back and the sleeves
    are suitably marked as well. Before you proud Irish-Americans get
    really uptight, I'm serious it great advertising, not so silly after
    all.
    
    re your beard and build, everyone probably thought you were auditioning
    for the part of Rob Roy McGregor
    
    Pleased to have you , I don't feel so outnumbered now.
    
    Drew

    
    	Re 36.21	
    
    	I have destroyed the crystal ball !!
    
    	I'll never buy anything from the "Tinkers" again	:-)
    
    
        
    
    	keVin
    
    
    	

    RE: .22
    I have tried stout.  Tastes great.  It just bothers me to have
    a drink you have to chew.
    Seriously, the food content of stout is too high for me, I am
    attempting to get back under 200 pounds (about 14 stone).
    Actually I got to sample a bunch of different brews by saying
    to the landlord "I'm a Yank, and would like to learn about your
    ales/beers, what would you recommend?  My wife wants to try your
    single malt whiskys too."  They were universally friendly and
    (hic) helpful.
    Phil

    If you know any Scots in your location, here's a simple experiment
    to find out which coast they come from.
    
    Mention to them that Glasgow Celtic won the Scottish League
    Championship beating Hearts into 2nd place by the margin of 2 more
    goals scored (equal om points). The results on saturday which caused
    this were     St. Mirren 0  Glasgow Celtic 5
                  Dundee     2  Hearts         0
    
    If the person bursts into tears then he is an East coaster and if
    he cheers then he is a West coaster.
    
    Re the East coaster, stay away from him for a few days.
    
    Drew

    Hi,
    	I will probably  be in Scotland this year to see my family and
    do some traveling around.  I have heard of walking holiday called
    Albannach organized by Sandy Grant Mitchell in Strathpeffer.  He
    has walks on the mainland and walks on the islands .  I was wondering
    if you (Drew Sharp) have heard anything about him.  I planning to
    visit Orkney with my family but a walking holiday might be nice
    as well.
    	I am Scottish but since I have spent most of my life in California
    I usually get asked if I am Canadian There are a number of older
    Scots in California and they have groups such as the St Andrews
    Society and a clan system.  There are also a number of Highland
    gathering held.  For example in Santa Rosa Calif. the games last
    for 2 days and usually have a large gathering of pipe bands from
    U.S. and Canada.  These games are usually held first week of September
    when the teperature is almost 100 degrees F (sorry not up on C)
    and all these people show up in their heavy woolen dress - it is
    a sight to be seen!   There are a number of younger people coming
    to the Santa Clara Valley of British origin because of the computer
    industry but there seem to be more English than Scots.
    	How is the Aberdeen Dons doing this year in the football scores?
    
    						Hazel Donaldson

    Re the Dons, they beat Hearts last Saturday , 3-0 , in the Scottish
    Cup Final, finished 3rd in the League, behind Celtic and Hearts.
    Scottish National Team flew out to the States for High Altitude
    Training before going on to Mexico for the World Cup. You should
    get that on Tv next month, they are in the same section as
    West Germany, Uraguay and Denmark, games are on the 4th,8th and
    13th June. I don't give much for their chances. For the Irish,
    Northern Ireland will also be there, as well as the english, what
    a shame I can't get any smaller character sets to type "english".
    
    Re the Strathpeffer Walkabouts, I'll try and get some info.
    
    You exiles should be trotting of to Mexico to support your local
    team, BTW, Canada made it to the finals as well, in fact they beat
    
    Wales in a "friendly" ,2-0, the other day, pretty good as Scotland
    struggled to beat them when we qualified for the finals.
    
    Any questions about the World Cup, please feel free to ask.
    
    Drew

    Hello again Hazel, 
                      I know that they're not the Dons but Dundee will
    be in L.A. this month playing about 6 games, and Scotland will be
    playing a "friendly", against L.A. Heat on the 30th May, I believe
    that all but 1,000 of 12,500 tickets have been sold, the 1,000 will
    be going on sale on the day of the match. I'm waiting on the Scottish
    Board coming back to me on "strathpeffer".
    
    Drew

    Good news for football in Southern Calif - there are a number of
    Scots in the area.  I'll need to see if any my friends plan to attend.
    Do you know who will be on the Scottish World Cup team this year
    and who is the manager?  Cannot go to Mexico and Scotland in the
    same year.  Digital is not that generous with the vacation time
    :-[
    						Hazel Donaldson
    

    Alex Ferguson (also Aberdeen manager) is the caretaker manager
    following the death of Jock Stein during a qualifying match against
    Wales, as for the team I can't name all 22 players in the squad,
    but I'll have a go, the rest of the conference will have to bear
    with me.
    
    Goalkeepers
    Leighton  - Aberdeen
    Rough     - Hibs
    Money     - Oldham
    
    Outfield Players
    Albiston -  Manchester United
    Strachan -   Ditto
    Nicol    -  Liverpool
    Miller   -  Aberdeen
    Gough    -  Dundee United
    McLeish  -  Aberdeen
    Sturrock -  Dundee United
    Souness  -  Glasgow Rangers (newly appointed player/manager)
    Archibald-  Barcelona
    McStay   -  Glasgow Celtic
    Sharp    -  Everton
    Aitken   -  Glasgow Celtic
    McAvennie-  West Ham
    Nicholas -  Arsenal
    
    I can't think of the rest at the moment.
    
    You could always go to see them playing L.A. Heat, funny names for
    football (sorry Soccer) teams. They're acclimatising in Santa Fe,
    New Mexico at the moment (N. Ireland are in Abulquerque (? spelling)
    and England are in Colorado Springs, they played the Local Air Force
    team and beat them 11-0. And don't forget, folks, Canada qualified
    as well, goodness knows where they're training at altitude, probably
    Banff/Lake Louise - joke.
    
    Drew

    HI GUYS (SCOTTISH,IRISH AND AMERICAN)
    JUST TO INTRODUCE MYSELF,
    I AM IRISH,BORN IN DUBLIN.MY WIFE IS AMERICAN,BORN IN BOSTON.
    I HAVE TWO DAUGHTERS,ONE BORN IN DUBLIN,THE OTHER IN AYR.
    I WORK FOR THE GAO PLANT,BUT AM TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO AYR(I YEAR)
    HOW IS THAT FOR A MIXTURE??
    MY ADVICE TO ANYONE FROM THE U.S. IS;VISIT BOTH SCOTLAND AND IRELAND.
    THE PEOPLE HERE IN WEST SCOTLAND ARE FRIENDLYAND TERRIFIC SCENERY.DONT
    MISS EDINBURGH!!I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THE WORST SUMMER AND WINTER
    IN LIVING MEMORY,SO TAKE MY ADVICE IN THE TITLE!!

	Ever been to "The Diggers"?  I met up with a Scot in Torremolinas,
	Spain last weekend and he said the place is THE place to go..

							mike

    Re 33   The only "DIGGERS" I know of is the Athletic Arms at the
    top of Gorgie Road in Edinburgh, its called the Diggers as its next
    to a graveyard, and the gravediggers drink there. The Beer is superb,
    hand drawn, a few pints and you're off, they have a system where
    the overflows from the beer taps goes into a barrel Heavy/Special/Stout
    /etc and they serve that up again, sounds disgusting, I could never
    pluck up enough courage to try it. At least thats the way it was
    at least 6 years ago I haven't been there for a while.
    
    Re 34  I mean , what can I say, don't think that the civilised parts
    got that, the mountains usually get some snow during the summer,
    all it did was drop a 100 feet lower than usual, btw after lots
    of rain it was 25 C in Prestwick today.
    
    I don't care I'm off to Munich on a course next week anyway, I just
    hope the sun shines there.
    
    Drew

	RE: .35

	Thanks! Sounds like the place.. I'm not to sure I could
	go for a barrel of backwash and overflow but.....

							mike

    This conference is really getting to be quite quiet, is everyone
    of to Ireland for their vacation, nobody seems to want to come to
    Scotland, sigh, we've got the warmest rain in Europe at the moment
    !! The weather will get better, it's just that the British Open
    Golf Championship is being 15 miles down the coast, and the weather
    is never good when it's on.
    
    Drew

    re .37
    
    I've been *trying* to get back to Scotland for a visit for quite
    some time!
    
    [The husband that I wouldn't trade for anything thinks that the
    English spoken by my people is a foreign language  -- he should
    talk, he's from Houston, Texas]
    
    There is hope.  He keeps talking about the 'dream vacation' to see
    the Open.  <sigh>  [I've always liked the rain -- it doesn't burn
    the skin.]
    
    Annie J

    Hi all,
    
    Just thought I'd introduce myself now. (I'll catch up with the
    'unseens' at a later date.
    
    I'm proud to say that I'm a true Scot - born in Dalmellington (know
    where that is Drew) brought up in Galloway (*NOT* Galway), went
    to Uni' in Glasgow, and moved South ('(&%"$&) English) to find a
    decent job.
    
    For those of you planning to visit Scotland, I would like to bring
    to your attention that wonderful part of the country called Galloway.
    NO jagged, hard to climb mountains; only quiet, peaceful, hills.
    I love the place.
    
    Stew
    
    P.S. Glasgow's Miles Better

Hi,

I've just returned from my first trip to Scotland and I want to go
back!!

I'm not of Scottish descent, but since my husband and I are both
golfers . . . where else could we possibly go?

I won't bore you with details of "How I Spent My Summer Vacation."
But I will say that Scotland is the most beautiful place I've
ever seen.

We rented a car and took off on our own . . . stopped where and
when we wanted to.  We stayed at Bed & Breakfasts and I would
highly recommend them.

I loved the people and the scenery. There was no commercialism . . .
no neon signs, no billboards, no condos.  Just miles of rolling
hills, dotted here and there with sheep. Castles (lots of them), some
restored and some in ruins (Urquhart Castle on Loch Ness will always
remain my favorite).

The only "fault" I could find was the weather. Cold and Rainy!!

It's now been 2 weeks since we came back to the states and I'm still
homesick . . .  for Scotland.

Someday I'm going back.

Grace

    Glad you enjoyed your trip.  While you were away, a new notesfile
    conference on TMCUK2::GREAT_BRITAIN was started.  If you don't feel
    up to writing a "how I spent my summer vacation" would you at least
    be willing to share some recommendations on some of those great
    little Bed & Breakfasts?
    
    To add the conference to you directory press KP7 or SELECT.
    
    The B&B topic is note #(I forgot, but it's near the top).

Yes, I just found out about the new notesfile. Wish it was started sooner.
However, I'll be glad to share our experiences.

This trip was planned over a year ago. We planned it all on our own and it
was a combination of England and Scotland. I can definitely provide
input on:

-- B&Bs (both England and Scotland)

-- London

-- Edinburgh

-- Road maps/routes

-- "Open to View" ticket

And I'm sure I can come up with others.

Grace 

    I'm glad you enjoyed your holiday up here, the weather, well, what
    can I say ? Really the weather isn't always as bad as that.
    Haste ye back Grace.
    Drew

	Well Drew, it looks like I'll be comming back to Ayr (for my
    	home visit) at the end of October, so that should give you
    	plenty of time to save a few bob for the heavy.
    
    	Oh, I almost forgot to let everyone know that I am also
    	Scottish and I remember paying for that last round we had
    	in December '85
    Joe

    I GOT THE LAST ROUND, you're on the bell ! I obviously have a better
    memory than you have. Have you perfected peeling an orange in your
    pocket yet, I haven't , but I can bring cigerettes already lit out
    of the packet , I've been practising a lot.
    
    Harry Lauder has a lot to answer for.
    
    contact CEMTRY:lauder :-)
    
    Drew

    For all you folk out there, sitting in your air conditioned offices,
    wishing the heat would go away, we had our first frost this morning,
    I don't think I want to be here anymore, anyone for an exchange
    visit, say, 25 years ? at least until the ice age passes?
    
    Drew

    Ah, what do you want?  Scotland's pratically
    in the Artic circle :-))
    
    George
    (BTW, Massachusetts has the same latitude as Portugal)

    Drew, any news on that proposed Digital plant in Scotland?
    (is it Glasgow?)

    
    Hi folks,  my name is Addie Escarcida and I will be leaving DEC
    soon....ISP victim.  To celebrate my leaving I have decided to visit
    Scotland and Ireland maybe even Great Britain.  My intent is to tour
    by BIKE which should be very exciting.  Can anyone tell me or advise
    how cyclists are treated....especially women traveling by them selves.
    
    I would like to visit the Hebrides, Edinburgh (sp), Ayr,the highlands but 
    I might have to get to certain places by train.
    
    I'm looking forward to it all .....I love Celtic music, the people,
    everything.  I must have been so in previous lifetime.
    
    Anyway.....I'm looking forward to my trip in June through July.
    
    Addie

    To get to the Hebredes, a boat would also come in handy ;-)
    
    By the way, a fairly large proportion of Scotland's 
    inhabitants are pleased to be part of Great Britain, 
    although most would prefer a greater degree of decentralised
    government.
    
    As for women travelling alone, I guess there is a risk wherever you
    are. It is no worse in Scotland or Ireland than anywhere else.
    
    The scenery in both countries is stunning.
    
    Enjoy your visit.