Conference stubai::hiking

planning a hike to Moosilauke

> I would at least consider going up Beaver Brook, which is MUCH steeper 
> but much shorter as well.  There is often ice on the steep parts near
> the cascades, so crampons are more important here.  The trailhead is right
> on Rt 112.  This takes you past the new Beaver Brook shelter.

Just how steep and icy is this?  Would I end up front pointing if I
use this trail?  It doesn't look too bad on the map as compared to,
say, Falling Waters or Flume slide trails.

I'll probably go via the Gorge Bk. trail and I'm thinking of taking 
running shoes to expedite the road walk.

Any suggestions?

The first 1.3 miles are very steep.  The trail goes over bare rock in many
places with wooden steps hammered onto iron posts that were drilled into the
rock.  You won't need to front point, and you might not even need crampons
if the conditions are right, but I'd bring them.

Beaver Brook is a bit steeper than Falling Waters, not as bad as Flume Slide.
The problem is all the bare rock, which in the winter is just a big ice
slide.  Bring ski poles to help your balance.

 -dave-

I forgot, what road walk are you talking about?  The access road is covered
in snow and ice.  You might need snowshoes, not running shoes.

 -dave-

> I forgot, what road walk are you talking about?  The access road is covered

...oh, the access road to the Gorge Brook trail.  I guess I assumed that
just because Monadnock is one big ice flow that there is no snow
in the north country.

> places with wooden steps hammered onto iron posts that were drilled into the

Whoa!  Wooded steps?  I have this image of the wooden stairs you see
leading to a backyard deck. :)  Are they more like the ladders on
Cannon?

Since you've probably been up these trails oodles of times: 
between Beaver Brook and the Gorge Brook/Carrage/Snapper loop, which
one do you think is nicer?

There's still lots of snow in the northcountry.  I'm planning on skiing up
the Carriage Road this Saturday (conditions may suck, but that won't stop
us) and there's plenty of cover up there.

The steps on Beaver Brook are pieces of 6" x 8" pressure treated wood, cut
in half diagonally and placed every foot or so in the bad sections.  There
are a few places similar in the Whites, but none identical.  There are also
a few rebar handrails put in at the same time.  (143 steps, 8 handrails)

I prefer going up by the Ravine Lodge because I like to ski the mountain
if conditions are good.  If you choose to go this way, bring snowshoes do
you don't make post holes on the ski trails.  Beaver Brook is a fine trail,
but there really aren't any views until you get up high.  It's shorter
than Gorge/Snapper loop by quite a bit because of the access road.

 -dave-

    
    >I prefer going up by the Ravine Lodge because I like to ski the mountain 
    >if conditions are good.  If you choose to go this way, bring snowshoes do
    
    	Which trail is the best for skiing?  Often considered it, never 
    	followed through.
    

Depends on what you want to do.  The Al Merril loop (off the Asquam Ridge trail
on the Blue Ridge) is the easiest.  The Snapper trail to Carriage Rd is 
tough, but doable.  Gorge Brook is the hardest.  You'll probably need skins
for Gorge Brook or Snapper/Carriage.  The descent of Gorge is very difficult
so don't attempt it unless you are an experienced backcountry skier.

 -dave-

re         <<< Note 824.19 by 19472::metsky "I'm hysterical and I'm wet" >>>

>There's still lots of snow in the northcountry.  I'm planning on skiing up
>the Carriage Road this Saturday (conditions may suck, but that won't stop
>us) and there's plenty of cover up there.

Dave, can you post a trip report after your ski?  I'll be at Mt. Snow next
weekend (so can't get near Moosilauke)  but I'd still like to know how it
went.  

thx, Josh

Sure.  There's a much better ski report about Moosilauke from earlier this
year on my Whites Web page.

 -dave-

    
    I'd probably lug up my downhill skis.  Anything is doable as long as
    the width is 6' or above.   Don't have my trailmap handy to follow
    along right now.

Why carry heavy downhill gear on a long approach when telemark skis will get
you up much quicker and down just as fast?  Plus you don't have to carry 
snowshoes, necessary to avoid ruining the track or postholing.  I've never been 
tempted to try downhill gear on Moosilauke, or anywhere in the east.  It 
may make more sense out west, however.

Besides, most people couldn't ski a 6' wide ungroomed steep trail in New England
on alpine skis anyways.

 -dave-

    
    I don't do backcountry skiing yet. The downhill equip is expensive 
    enough.  ;-)
    
    I have no problem with small chutes..etc.  As long as the there is 
    6' or greater of turn space
    

>    I don't do backcountry skiing yet. The downhill equip is expensive 
>    enough.  ;-)

Plus, downhill equipment might be a bit safer with the binding releases.

I haven't tried the tele releasable bindings yet, but I'm not going
to ski anything hairy again until I get them.  I'm starting to learn
my lesson about injuries. :(

Well, there was plenty of now as Dave said.  Unfortunately,  we left
late to avoid the rain and didn't quite make it to the summit.  But
along the way up Beaver Brook trail, we saw ski marks on the cascades.

What's the story here?  The cascades look like they'd be pretty 
extreme, even without the ice under the snow and the water poking
though.

John

I'm pretty sure the AMC guidebooks is wrong about the mileage to
the Beaver Brook shelter.  It certainly didn't feel like .3 of a 
mile!  Did it get moved after the book was written?

The shelter itself looks really nice.  I especially like the
bluebird box. :)

    
    >along the way up Beaver Brook trail, we saw ski marks on the cascades.
    
    Wow!  I know that trail very well.  Wouldn't ski it.  

Yup, we built the new shelter three years ago and removed the old one.  The
AMC Guidebook is long out of date, but the trail signs should be accurate.

No idea who skied Beaver Brook (or why).  With really good snow conditions
I know people who could ski terrain like that, but not now.  Althought I
am a bit mistified by the tracks on the cascades themselves.  I skied on
the Carriage Road on Saturday, and the terrain could compare favorably to
well-aged concrete.  We skied up to the Camp Misery Bridge, which is about
2 miles in, took some pictures for the commemoration, and snowplowed all
the way back down.  The surface was brutal; very hard and undulating from
the snowmobile tracks.

I wouldn't recommend any skiing up there until we get a good heavy snow
fall.

 -dave-

  So, did you hike in the Scarpa Invernos ?  I would expect any plastic
 double mountaneering boot to be rugged, warm, waterproof, and a good
 stiff platform for crampons.  But I'd also expect them to be hard work
 to hike in.  Scarpa claimed their ankle design made hiking easier, but
 $300+ is a lot, so I was waiting to hear a review from a hiker.

  bb

Plastic double boots can be fine for hiking, if that's what they're designed
for.  My boots are just fine to hike in, provided there's snow on the ground.
All plastic boots aren't as stiff as the vertical ice climbing boots.

 -dave-

>  So, did you hike in the Scarpa Invernos ?  I would expect any plastic
> double mountaneering boot to be rugged, warm, waterproof, and a good
> stiff platform for crampons.  But I'd also expect them to be hard work
> to hike in.  Scarpa claimed their ankle design made hiking easier, but
> $300+ is a lot, so I was waiting to hear a review from a hiker.

Yeah.  It is a lot.

I can't say it was hiking, it was more like postholing or snowshoeing. :)

Anyway, they were very nice to deal with on the way up the steep sections.
I was kicking toe holds in some places and used french technique 
in a few others.  They had the ankle support that made it easy.  There
was a bit of heel rise, but not enough to be a problem (I didn't even
get a hot spot from it).

Once on the flat surface, we booted it for a while.  This felt great
except the postholing.  :(  So we switched to snowshoes.  Again, the boots
were great here.

On the way out, we snowshoed down to the cascades.  Since I had foolishly
forgoten to change my snowshoes' crampons to the "mountaineering" from
"general purpose", I had to point my toes down to get any bite out of the
whimpy crampons.  To do this, I curled up my toes and put all my weight
on the ball of my foot.  I also forgot to relace and after we stopped I
noticed that I had a hotspot where my toes were jamming into the plastic
shell.

After taking the snowshoes off and using crampons the rest of the way down,
my feet were fine.  They still feel fine today.  I haven't really taken
a look at the hotspot, but I suspect it is just that.

Overall, they felt good.  I'm happy.  Of course, it only took me a year,
two false starts, and a few "restocking" fees to find boots that fit. :)


I wouldn't want to walk on pavement all day in these boots though.  I tried
walking up and down my street, and they force you into an uncomfortable
stride (even though there is a rocker on the sole). 

What is supposed to be different about the Scarpa ankle design?  It looks
pretty much the same as the rest of the boots that I looked at...

> No idea who skied Beaver Brook (or why).  With really good snow conditions
> I know people who could ski terrain like that, but not now.  Althought I
> am a bit mistified by the tracks on the cascades themselves.  I skied on

The tracks were old.  I don't know how old, but they looked like the ski
tracks that had been snowed, and than rained on (at least they look
like the tracks that were in my backyard).  Whoever did it, really knew the 
trail well.  You could see where they swerved into the forest and
onto the trail to avoid fallen trees across the cascades.

I'm in awe of whoever did it.  That's a hard trail to snowshoe down,
never mind ski!

> the way back down.  The surface was brutal; very hard and undulating from
> the snowmobile tracks.

Hey!  Isn't that called groomed, packed powder at the ski areas? :)

OK, so I couldn't deal with the previous week being my last ski trip to 
Moosilauke this year, so I went back this past Saturday.  Starting at
9:30 from the Carriage Road with two friends in the fresh falling snow, we 
used wax to make it up to the Camp Misery Bridge.  There were some 
snowmobile tracks from the previous day, but quite a bit of fresh snow had 
fallen on top and none of the snow had hardened up.

Two snowmobiles passed up about 2.5 miles up.  They were the only ones we
saw on the mountain.  The skins had no problem holding on the fresh snow
but my heels were getting a bit raw.  There was probably about 15 inches of
fresh snow, with more falling.

We saw no tracks on the Snapper trail, and were tempted to try some skiing
down there on the way back, but we wanted to summit first.  The snowmobiles
turned around (one went beyond the turnaround, asshole!) and passed us
headed down.  They turned around when the deep snow made it impossible to
continue.  There was little wind but the snow was still falling.  We
skied over the 6 foot tall rock wall (the snowmobile trap) without even
noticing it.  There's lots of snow up there.

At the Glencliff trail junction three other skiers caught up to us.  They
had come up the Gorge Brook and Snapper trails, and said that they had passed
a few other skiers on Snapper.  Then we headed across the ridge, breaking
trail along the way.  It was a bit windier, but not too bad.  The summit
cone was rocky, but we kept skis on just for the heck of it.

At the summit, the three other skiers arrived just behind us, then two more
who came up behind them.  We hung out a bit, drank hot cocoa, took a bunch
of photos, and absorbed the view (none).  The other skiers all headed down
Gorge Brook, and we retraced our path back to Carriage Road, walking the very
top section.  The sun tried to come out, and we got a few small views but
the clouds and snow came back quickly.  After the little climb to Middle Peak, 
we took off skins and started the real fun part.

The trip down was fantastic.  The snow was increadibly forgiving, allowing us
to recover from caught edges, bumps, pole plants and everything.  The narrow
section down the the snowmobile trap was a bit hairy, but then things open up
and we began linking tele turns and enjoying the deep light snow.  We could
use our uphill tracks to pick up some speed and then take turns in the deep
powder on either side.  Granted, we fell a few times, but the falls never
hurt.  Kenny and I took nearly a roll of film each on the the descent.

Down past the Snapper trail junction, the snow got a little heavier as the sun
began to hit it.  We were getting tired, and the falls came a bit more often
but no one got hurt.  We met some snowmobilers who were trying to get to
Woodstock and convinced them that over Moosilauke was not the way to go.  We
saw a few skiers who were just out for a smaller trip and stopped to catch
our breath.  Then the final drop to the parking lot, arriving around 4:30.

Two of the people we met at the bottom invited us to their house just up the
road for some hot cider and a snack, which we quickly accepted.  A fine day.
Look for a trip report with pictures coming soon.

 -dave-

Sounds awesome Dave...

I happened to be up there on Sunday.  I took the Gorge brook trail
this time... It was a fantastic day, nice and sunny, etc... there
were a bunch of skiers on Snapper.  But once again, I underestimated
the amount of time it takes to travel with snowshoes and didn't make it
to the summit.  :(

Gotta try skis next time.  :)

When do you expect the snow to melt out?

> When do you expect the snow to melt out?

Who knows?  There's ususally snow up there well into June.  When we do the
spring trail clearing in May, the upper mountain often has several feet of
snow left.  There's more snow coming in the next few days.

 -dave-