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Conference smurf::civil_war

Title:The American Civil War
Notice:Please read all replies 1.* before writing here.
Moderator:SMURF::BINDER
Created:Mon Jul 15 1991
Last Modified:Tue Apr 08 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:141
Total number of notes:2129

73.0. "What if the War had been avoided?...." by DKAS::KOLKER (Conan the Librarian) Sat May 30 1992 20:41

    Here is a counterpart to note 43 of this Conference.
    
    What if the War Between the States had been avoided by adroit political
    compromises.
    
    What would the country have been like.
    
    How would race relations have evolved.
    
    What would have been the effect on World Politics.
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73.1My guess...DKAS::KOLKERConan the LibrarianSat May 30 1992 20:5237
    Since I raised the question I will offer some speculation.
    
    Southward expansion into Central America under the urging of the
    Southron States.
    
    A less central government, more "States Rights"
    
    A slower rate of industrial growth.
    
    Slavery existing until the beginning of the 20 Century, then some form
    of manumission of Blacks and compensation of the former owners. This
    because mechanized farming would make slave owning less attractive.
    (BTW it could also go the other way, after all it was the Cotting Gin
    that "saved" the institution of slavery)
    
    Germany getting the upperhand in Europe and dominating Britain as a
    colonial power.
    
    No Bolshevic Russia emerges, and Communism never becomes a world
    problem.
    
    A greater Japan annexes China because Britain is in no shape to stop it.
    
    Fewer nations in the world, a few big imperialistic powers control the
    world:
    
    	Britain, U.S. (expanded into Central America),
    	Germany, Japan, Imperial Russia, and a combined Brazil and
    	Argentina control South America. Australia annexes Malaysia since
    	Britain can't prevent it, all other countries becomming clients of
    	the "biggies".
    
    The good news is there never would have been a Nazi Germany or a
    Stalanist Russia.
    
    
    	 
73.2Maybe US would be a lesser power?WMOIS::MACK_JMon Jun 01 1992 13:1323
    With less Central Government I'm not certain that the U.S. would get 
    into Southward expansion at all. The country had the opportunity in
    the Mexican War to do just that and didn't. Since the Southern states
    seemed to lean more and more (just before the war) away from a more
    powerful centralized government, "My" (Emphasizing MY) conclusion,
    based only on my reading and thoughts are that in all likelihood 
    the U.S. wouldn't be one of the powers. I do think that there would've
    still been a Hitler and Nazi Germany as well as Stalin and so on,
    because they were offsprings of Worldwar I to some extent, and
    the resulting Revolution in Russia as well as the World Depression
    would've at least opened the potentials for these types of things to
    have occured. Without the U.S. as a World Power (again "MY" Conclusion)
    perhaps those wouldn't have occurred quite that way as who knows what
    the outcome of WWI might've been. 
    
    One bit of good news might be though, with less centralized Government
    we might not have an IRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALthough I'm sure we'd still
    get the Income Taxed on a State Level. (Considering I'm in Mass that
    might've been worse right?).
    
    Just some thoughts....
    
    J
73.3If Lincoln had lost (or fudged?)?MACNAS::TJOYCETue Jun 09 1992 06:5583
    
    Since the commencement of the war was accompanied by the election
    of Abraham Lincoln as President and subsequent secession, for the
    war NOT to have happened, we would have to presuppose two things:
    
    (1) "Someone Else" winning the 1860 election - Bell, Breckenridge
         or Douglas.
    
    	Breckenridge was a sectional (southern) candidate, and his
        victory would have led to a stronger continuance of some
        trends evident in the Buchanan administration. This would have 
        been active connivance at the spread of slavery, and (to the North)
        would have been meant growth of the "Slave Power" to its
        detriment. May even have meant Northern secession at a 
        later stage. Could have meant the annexation of Cuba as
        a slave state, or parts of Central America.
    
        A Douglas victory would probably have led to a succession
        of "Bleeding Kansas" episodes as he looked to "popular
        sovereignty" in each territory to keep out slavery. Thus
        instead of a major civil war, there would have been
        several mini-wars, with less loss of life.
    
        A John Bell victory would probably have meant the same as a
        Douglas win. Slavery would have persisted far longer as it
        would continue to be the cause of conflict, and Southern
        honour would not permit them to surrender under duress.
        Bell stood for the "status quo", which was basically pro-
        South, and would not have satisfied the Republicans.
    
        In either of the above cases, the conflict about slavery
        would have persisted far longer without a clear settlement.
        No war and no Republican administration would have meant a 
        slower economic growth for the USA meaning German dominance 
        in industralisation at the turn of the century, and probably 
        victory for her in World War I.
    
        Another scenario is that Republican defeat would have led to
        a "fusion" of the main elements of that party with Douglas Democrats 
        (their positions were not that far apart), and victory in the 1864 
        election.
        I am not sure if a Douglas victory would have satisfied the
        South, and seeing "Black Republicans" throwing him their
        support (in 1860 or 1864), might also have led to secession 
        at a later stage. 
        
        The fact was that Northern power was growing at the expense of
        the South - whether the South would ever have accepted that
        peacefully is an open question.
        
    (2) A Lincoln victory with a subsequent patched-up compromise
        to avoid secession. Lincoln would probably have had to accept
        popular sovereignty to accomodate the South, but this may
        not have satisfied the Southern "fire-eaters".
    
        Lincoln would have tried to build up the Republican party
        in the South, where federal patronage, and a large white
        non-slaveowning population would have given him ample scope.
        This was of course what the slaveowners feared, but if it
        had occurred, it would have meant the death of slavery
        by the mid 1870s (probably), but with compensation.
        Douglas could also have accomplished this.
    
        It is moot how industralisation would have progressed
        under a peacetime Republican administration, probably
        more slowly, because with Southern Democrats in the
        house, low tariffs would still have been the norm.
        Also, it was the war itself that accelerated
        industralisation.
    
    (3) A Lincoln victory, but either secession allowed to take
        place peacefully, or a Confederate victory in the Civil
        War. I think we have covered this elsewhere (see "Civil
        War" topic in the History notesfile.) The most distastrous
        scenario for everyone.
    
    An interesting scenario: if Douglas won the election, it would
    have meant a "breathing space" for the South. Now Douglas died
    in 1862 (?) so he would not have completed his term. Who was
    his VP, and would he have been more friendly to the South, as
    Fillmore was after Zachary Taylor died?
    
    Toby