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Conference smurf::ase

Title:ase
Moderator:SMURF::GROSSO
Created:Thu Jul 29 1993
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2114
Total number of notes:7347

2049.0. "Double TruCuster configuration question" by ROMTSS::MORRONE () Wed May 07 1997 10:17

 Hi all,

 Could someone please help me to define if the following 'double TruCluster
 configuration' may work and may be supported by Digital as well :

    Mem. Channel A                       Mem. Channel B
    +---------------+                   +---------------+      Common Hw/Sw
    |               |                   |               |        info:
    |               |                   |               |       
 +--+-----+     +---+----+           +--+-----+     +---+----+  UNIX v3.2G
 |Alpha   |     |Alpha   |           |Alpha   |     |Alpha   |  TruCluster v1.0
 |8400 A  |     |8400 B  |           |8400 C  |     |8400 D  |
 |        |     |        |           |        |     |        |
 |KZPSA   |     |KZPSA   |           |KZPSA   |     |KZPSA   |
 | #1  #2 |     | #1  #2 |           | #1  #2 |     | #1  #2 |
 +-+---+--+     +-+--+---+           +-+---+--+     +-+--+---+
   |   |          |  |                 |   |          |  |
   |   |          |  |  SCSI diff. #1  |   |          |  |
  T+--------------+--------------------+--------+-----+T |
       |             |                     |    |        |
      T+---+---------+---------------------+------------+T
           |            SCSI diff. #2           |
       +---+---+                            +---+---+
       | HSZ40 |                            | HSZ40 |
       |  # 1  |                            |  # 2  |
       |       |                            |       |
       + disks +                            + disks +

 In short, Customer would install two 'independent' TruCluster configuration,
 each one made up by 2 Turbolaser systems, and at the same time he would "just"
 connect the 'shared SCSI buses' to both TruCluster systems without (obviously)
 sharing disk devices from all Turbolaser systems :

 Turbolaser system A & B                 Turbolaser system C & D
 will form one TruCluster,               will form a second TruCluster,
 and will use HSZ40 #1 Disks             and will use HSZ40 #2 Disks
 trough SCSI diff. #2                    trough SCSI diff. #1

 Any idea or suggestion will be very appreciated.

 Regards, Maurizio
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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2049.1KITCHE::schottEric R. Schott USG Product ManagementWed May 07 1997 16:546
Hi

 It is not supported...can you tell us what they are trying to achieve
or what problem they want to solve?


2049.2Customer mistrust on TruCluster solutionROMTSS::MORRONEThu May 08 1997 06:1724
Eric,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

Even it is not expressly stated within any docs, I deduced it's not supported;
in fact, I never suggested such configuration to any Customer.

The Customer, requesting that unusual configuration, would like to have the
chance to access HSZ40 disk drives managed by TruCluster A from TruCluster B
in the case TruCluster A is not anymore able to provide access to its storage;
so that, at the time of the problem, instead of physically connect a Diff. 
SCSI cable to manage TruCluster A's storage from TruCluster B Customer will
have a SCSI connection ready to be used by the surviving TruCluster.
At the base of this strange request, from the Customer point of view there is 
a lack of trust toward a single '4 Turbolaser members configuration' (..based 
on bad Customer experiences on DECsafe/ASE environment reliability..).

Could you please confirm the unsupported configuration is not valid  within a
DECsafe/ASE environment as well.

Thanks indeed again.

Regards, Maurizio
2049.3KITCHE::schottEric R. Schott USG Product ManagementThu May 08 1997 13:4925
>
>Even it is not expressly stated within any docs, I deduced it's not supported;
>in fact, I never suggested such configuration to any Customer.
>
>The Customer, requesting that unusual configuration, would like to have the
>chance to access HSZ40 disk drives managed by TruCluster A from TruCluster B
>in the case TruCluster A is not anymore able to provide access to its storage;
>so that, at the time of the problem, instead of physically connect a Diff. 
>SCSI cable to manage TruCluster A's storage from TruCluster B Customer will
>have a SCSI connection ready to be used by the surviving TruCluster.
>At the base of this strange request, from the Customer point of view there is 
>a lack of trust toward a single '4 Turbolaser members configuration' (..based 
>on bad Customer experiences on DECsafe/ASE environment reliability..).
>
>Could you please confirm the unsupported configuration is not valid  within a
>DECsafe/ASE environment as well.

It is not supported...We have not tested it and have no idea
how it might work.

Why if they are willing to have all the nodes on the same shared
buses would they not put them in the same cluster??


>
2049.4Customer doesn't trust yet any 'Cluster solution'ROMTSS::MORRONEThu May 08 1997 17:4814
Eric,

As I tried to tell you, at the moment Customer doesn't completely trust
a single 4 members TruCluster solution; he thinks there are chances that
a SW or HW problem within any 'TruCluster component' would make inoperative
all 4 systems (instead of two as in the previous configuration).
Anyway, it's at least 2 months I'm trying to convince Customer to implement
the 4 members TruCluster solution as the best configuration for their needs.
I'll let you know which will be the end of the story...

Thanks a lot again for your cooperation.

Regards,  Maurizio 
2049.5 ???BACHUS::DEVOSManu Devos NSIS Brussels 856-7539Fri May 09 1997 16:5720
    Maurizio,
    
    If the customer is not convinced by the robustness of ASE, maybe you
    can try to explain that even if ASE is not able to start or fail a
    service over, you can mount it manually with a script that I made public 
    in this notefile: "mount_service". Do a dir /tile="mount".
    
    ASE is not magic. It simply place some storage online, then start this
    storage (LSM) and finally mount the storage on mount-point. Thus, if
    ASE is down, you can still use the storage manually.
    
    Maybe, your customer can accept this 4 nodes config if he knows that
    his data can be accessed without ASE.
    
    The only precaution is to have terminators on Y-cables at the ends of
    the bus to allow the repair of any component of this bus and of course
    to have your data mirrored across two different buses. That means : no
    single point of failure.
    
    Manu.