Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    I'm outta here next week so if you have any questions, now is the time
    to ask.
    Michael J. Kelly @ MLO
    223-2286

    Thanks to everyone who stopped to say hello.  The coffee that
    I got was a life saver !!!!!!!
    The show was less crowded and is a reflection with everything
    that is wrong with sports, the economy and the industry.
    Mike

    Hi Mike;
    
    	Can you expand on your comments a little.  Less crowded, and
    everything thats wrong.  Do you blame the collectors, the investors, or 
    the insiders and the industry people for what has happened?
    
    	I would like an insider, like yourself, someone who is close to the 
    industry to explain the demise of this hobby, trade, etc.  It seemed to
    me that everything started downhill as soon as TOPPS pulled the gum out 
    of their wax packs.  Then the industry got serious, and the fun was
    gone.  I'm sure the strike hasn't helped either.
    
    	On another note, I could not make it to the show, previous
    committments, but how were the prices for the new and old stuff??
    
    	Rick

    Thats a lot of questions.
    Wrong with the industry- to much product.  I do not believe the SRP's for
    the products produced are too high- I think that there are to many
    products.  Blame, I would prefer to ask - who isn't to blame.
    Wrong with sports-Ken Burns pointed out that there have been strikes
    many times in Baseball- same with hockey.  The work stopages are not
    wrong - they simply kill demand.
    Wrong with the ecomony-I'm not sure what Bubba sees when he repeats
    strong recovery - strong recovery - It isn't happening in my
    neighborhood. 
    Headcount-Last year 5000 - this year 4000.
    NO KIDS
    Prices-current wax was sold at distress prices.
    Old stuff is selling below book - and book keeps coming down.
    
    Unsolicited commentary-
    1-I'm on the players side (100%).  Why - Ballplayers are commissioned
    sales people.  They should not have a cap on their wages - It kills
    the incentive to excell and will eventually kill the game.
    2-I get nausious when I hear, "I can't afford to take my kids to 
    a game".  So what - you can't afford a DaVinci, an airplane, a cruiser
    and lots of other things - do you expect the owners and employees
    of those industries to cater to your needs - what's the difference.
    3-Anti trust exemption - do away with it.
    4-The small market cities can't keep up.  Too Bad - ever hear of the
    Senators, Indianapolis, NY Giants, Brooklyn Dodgers, Boston Braves.
    Why is this any different.  
    
    I have a killer idea to put things in balance - I'm serious
    1-Give the players that make the 25 man roster to start next 
      season a lump sum payment equal to 10 million dollars more than
      they earned last year.  Leave the ticket prices where they
      currently are priced.  Then have the players reimburse the 
      owners full price for every ticket not sold.
      Baseball would become very competitive on the field - 
      rivalries would fester and presto - better baseball 
    2-I really mean this - Andy Van Slyke had a great idea -
      ( don't dismiss this until you think about it for 
        24 hours ) visiting players can advance on all foul 
      balls that stay in the stadium - including the stands.
      
    end of sermon - your comments and orders are welcomed.
    MJK
       
       

I was talking to a friend of mine who doesn't collect cards.  He told me his
younger brother - age 12 - was big time into cards, always had the Beckett's
out and counting up his dollars. His parents were spending a lot of money on
cards thinking maybe it was a good investment because the price guides would
say cards were worth this much and that much. One day  his  parents took the
kid to some dealers to sell some of his cards and he was told either:

	1) I don't need any of those

	or

	2) I'll give you 20-25% of Beckett's

Needless to say the kid was disillusioned  and the parents weren't too happy
about shelling out a lot of money for stuff that was hyped and over inflated
as far as prices go. He said his brother has gone on to other things now.

I'm sure a lot of kids have learned the hard way about the value and invest-
ment in cards.  While you may think SRP's aren't that high, shelling out 40$
to 100$ for a box of cards is a lot of money and I'm sure most parents don't
have that kind of money  to  throw  around,  let alone kids. Kids that buy a
pack of 5$ cards expecting to  get  a  special  Frank Thomas  or Griffey Jr.
insert each time soon learn  that  more  often  than  not you'll get a Danny
Darwin or someone like him instead.

The investors have abandoned the card market. It takes a lot of money now to
pick up cases of cards unlike before  when you could buy a case for 200$ and
turn around and make a 100%  to  300% profit. When a case starts out at 800$
to 1000$ for a 20 box wax case,  the number  of  people willing to shell out
80$ to 100$ for a wax box drops fast.

In my area alone,  there's been five card shops that have closed in the last
two years.  You need a lot of money  to  buy cases nowadays and if you don't
buy a case you have to buy  from  a secondary market. This adds even more to
the cost that they have  to  charge  their customers. Dealers that buy cases
that do not move now have  to  unload  it  just to try and get some of their
money back.  People see this and think to themselves -  "I spent 50$ on that
stuff and now it's 25$, I'll wait from now on."
    
>>> Unsolicited commentary-
>>> 1-I'm on the players side (100%).  Why - Ballplayers are commissioned
>>> sales people.  They should not have a cap on their wages - It kills
>>> the incentive to excell and will eventually kill the game.

When there wasn't free agency etc.  it didn't kill the game. In fact I think
ballplayers probably had more incentive to excel.  I'm not saying the owners
are entirely right,  but I don't  feel  that  long term guarenteed contracts
give a player the incentive to excel either. 

>>> 1-Give the players that make the 25 man roster to start next 
>>>   season a lump sum payment equal to 10 million dollars more than
>>>   they earned last year.  Leave the ticket prices where they
>>>   currently are priced.  Then have the players reimburse the 
>>>   owners full price for every ticket not sold.
>>>   Baseball would become very competitive on the field - 
>>>   rivalries would fester and presto - better baseball

Some stadiums have more  seats  than  others. Some payrolls are already much
higher than others.  I'm not sure what giving players 10 million more $ will
do. While you say who  cares  about  small market teams, you have to realize
that not everyone can move and I think eventually you'll reach a point where
some teams will fold and where will those players go in that case.

>>> 2-I really mean this - Andy Van Slyke had a great idea -
>>>   ( don't dismiss this until you think about it for 
>>>     24 hours ) visiting players can advance on all foul 
>>>   balls that stay in the stadium - including the stands.
      
And I thought you were against the DH ... Who'd want to  go  to a game where
chances are the home team will lose with a rule like this.

John
    

    John I'm not computer literate enough to be able to get all opf this on
    one screen sorry.  
    First the Van Slyke Rule.  It would fill the parks to capacity-
    people would be involved in the game waiting for their chance to
    retrieve a foul ball and throw it back onto the field so that 
    the advancing runners could be tagged out.  The concept isn't that the
    runners advance without risk-the runners advance at their own risk
    because the fan that retrieves the ball can " get an assist ".
    can you imagine a great bunter dragging the ball foul on purpose
    so that the runners can advance - it changes everything.
    Apparently MLB has decided to try this at two minor league parks
    during the upcoming exhibition season.  The backstop is out of play.
    
    The part about the kid:
    Investing in anything is a risk.
    There are an equal number of products that are cheap and have 
    very saleable chase cards and autographs - UD Heroes of Baseball -
    Classic four sport.
    Personally I think five bucks a pack is the right price of
    cigaretts - not cards.
    
    Small Cities-there are 100s of cities the size of Minneapolis
    that don't have a team - 
    
    Small Stadiums - Usually have lower payrolls so it is a sliding
    scale.
    
    
    

    I am also against long term contracts ( more than one season ).  
    MJK

    Van Slyke rule -
    
    So if you're rooting for the visiting team, grab the fould ball and
    hang onto it  till  they  circle  the  bases. Or if you see someone
    getting ready  to  throw  it  back in, get in their way or grab the
    ball from them. Seems like there could be some liabaility issues in
    this new rule.
    
    Cheaper products --
    
    UD's Heroes of Baseball Wax Boxes were 32-36$.  Sets could be found
    for 10$ at the show. Everyone wanted the Archives.
    
    John

    Van Slyke rule -
     Stupidest thing I've ever heard... 
    
     JMHO 
     Rp

    You just don't get it.....
    Imagine Municiple Stadium ( I know its closed ) with 70,000 empty
    seats every night. The park would be full of kids with their gloves
    waiting to get that visitors fly ball snd throw it back on national TV
    - or ESPN 
    
    Honestly I love IT....
    
    
    Think about the same rule in Hockey-the fans can throw the puck back
    across the dasher in any direction even into the net.  We could go to a 
    game and one of us get a puck then pass it to each other outside the
    dasher and bounce it past Roy for a goal -- You would have your own
    insert card -- "PLOURIDE SCORES"
    

Wow, Mike,you're serious - you really *do* think this would work!

I mean I understand the concept, to draw more local fans to actually
help out the local team to a win...

But fans are unruly enough now (yes, even fans routing for the same team) - 
never mind getting them physically involved in the games.

Hmmm, can the ump throw out a fan?  Or maybe a fan penalty box would be
needed :-)

--------

What would draw me to more games?  Plain and simple... cost!

Dan

    Hey Mike, have you taken one to many blows to the head.  This is the
    craziest idea I have ever heard of.  I mean, I would love it to happen,
    but think of the reality of the idea.  Say the ball comes rocketing
    toward some kid, or women, for that matter some guy and he catches it
    right between the eyes.  I don't think fans in general realize how fast
    the ball comes at you.  The liability of such a thing would be
    astronomical.  Lloyds would not insure it.  The scumbag lawyers would
    have a field day with this idea.  The scumsucking attorneys are ruining
    the game now with all these negotiations,  think of this complication
    on  top of it.  I really hope they resolve the issues soon.  I'm
    getting spring fevor already with this great fall weather.  I NEED
    baseball to start on time this April.  I think baseball needs some kind
    of fan participation, maybe through an electronic means at your seat,
    but this idea would lead to riots.  If the ball was hit to me, I would 
    prefer to keep it, then what happens??  This would never work.

    Comon Mr G.  let the left side of your brain function.  I'd love to
    see a fan catching Canseco going home from the box seats.  Think
    of the force plays.  I can see the right field line packed with serious
    guys that want there one chance to play in a major leage game.
    Think of your own insert card - your dressed in your mantle jersey,
    with your yankee cap and yankee glove and the foul ball come to you and
    you throw out Greenwell doggin it at third -
    
    WOW this is great

    I've had longer than 24 hours to think about it  and it's still a
    stupid idea.  The DH generates  enough  controversy.  Can we post
    your note over in the Baseball conference to see what their input
    is ?
    
    John

    YES-
    How do I get to that file ?
    Mike

    That notes file is HUMANE::BASEBALL
    
    John

>
>    Old stuff is selling below book - and book keeps coming down.
>
    
    Terrifc news for the true collector IMO
    
    Greg
    

:-)

I can see it now!  Most likely in Yankee Stadium or Shea.  A foul ball goes
into the stands and 500 come flying onto the field from every direction!

That would be hillarious!

Dan

    In regards to old stuff selling below book - this week's SCD had an ad
    from a reputable company.  They were  selling  several 1960's sets for
    some pretty decent prices.  I called  to  order the 1962 Topps set for
    1,800$ and they told me all the 60's sets they had advertised had sold
    out.
    
    John