Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    Walt,
    
    I don't know where you live, but the owner of Great American Baseball 
    Cards, in W. Concord, Mass. does appraisals.  His number is 508-371-2300.
    
    Regards,
    Denny
    

    Walt keep us informed on how this works with MetPay i'd be smart to
    insure my cards also but would like to know how they figure out the
    cost.
    
    Thanks
      Al

    Ok, thanks... maybe I can do this in Acton.  I've had friends ask me
    how much money I've got tied up in this thing and when you start adding
    it up, it gets kind of scary.  Payton rookie here... TSC FB set
    there... Yount and Brett rookies all add up after a while...

    Walt.
    
    Yea I'm interested in how you make out also. I should probably 
    have my collection appraised. Let me know how you make out and 
    what the costs and stipulations are if any. Good Idea!
    
    SteveO'

    I was told by MetPay they will not insure cards, or sports memorabilia
    of any kind.  Wonder why they changed their tone all of a sudden?? 
    They said because it could not be replaced, if there rare cards or
    special one of a kind items, a value could not be placed on them. 
    Better check this out again before you go spend alot of money on an 
    appraisal.  By the way, the appprasial will consist of a computer 
    listing of  all your items, at FMV.  So you may want to start a list,
    using a current price list and go into the appraiser with that, it may
    save some money, and also be a control for what you are giving him.
    They specifically told me no-go on my home owners policy on baseball
    cards.  
    

       What makes cards different than say, antique furniture? There ARE
    values on the cards. Just axe Doc Beckett!! I'd fight my insurance co.
    like hell if they tried to pull that after a loss. I've got one of
    those inventory programs, i'd just turn in a printout with my claim.
                                      Denny

    Denny, is that on a PC?  What program is that?
    

    
    	I had a similar experience with my Homeowners insurance company,
    	I tried to insure my collectibles and they wouldn't do it,
    	they said that stuff like that is covered under a policy
    	clause that covers personal property losses up to a specified
    	dollar amount limit.   Check your individual policies.
    

    
    Most insurance companies require what's known as a "rider" to cover
    collectibles such as baseball cards and comic books.
    
    I looked into w/MetPay about 8 yrs back when I wanted to include my
    comic collection and blossoming card collection.  I was told I would
    have to carry an additional rider on my policy.
    
    This would require an itemized list of what was in the collection,
    along with an appraisal from someone approved by the insurance
    company.  This would of course, with a growing collection, require
    continual updating.
    
    I looked into getting my comics appraised.  Remember now, this was
    about 8 years ago, and comic books might be vastly different than
    what cards require in terms of appraisal.
    
    The lowest rates I could get from any appraiser approved by MetPay
    was:
    
    	- $40/hour (picture someone taking every comic out of every
    	  bag, checking every cover and page ... and multiply by that
    	  by the nearly 12,000 comics I had ...
    
    	OR
    
    	- 10% of the appraised value.  They appraise it $10,000 you
    	  give them $1,000 for their appraisal.
    
    There are insurance companies setup that specialize in collectibles
    and maybe they're not so hard to deal with.  I don't know if MetPay
    is worth your effort Walt -- but I would be very interested in
    hearing how you make out.
    
    -rjk

    I specifically made an appointment with MetPay on this topic, and the 
    kid said they would not insure baseball cards, or memorabilia.  Then
    I through a twist into it, and said, how about if the cards are
    attached to a business, (business assets).  He then said that the cards
    and whatever could be covered under a liability policy as business
    assets.  Anyone in business may insure there collectibles as inventory
    or assets.  It may be a way to get a better price on the premiums, or 
    even get insurance period.

    Walt,
       The program is called The Card collector. It's supposedly sold in
    S/W stores. I ended up buying it direct from the maker, AbleSoft
    1-800-545-9009. Their ad is $49.95. Egghead and Software Etc. were
    supposed to sell them but said they hadn't gotten them in yet (2 months
    ago). I called AbleSoft and told them that and they apologized and said
    the new version was taking longer than they thought. They sold it to me
    for the price Egghead was going to sell for: $34.95. That's for
    baseball only. Each additional sport is $19.95, all 3 others for
    $49.95. Updates available monthly for $60/yr, Quarterly for $24/yr and 
    singly for $6 a shot. I went for the quarterly deal. The sets they
    don't have yet, Classic, Front Row and a couple others will be able to
    be downloaded in the future. Some sets, such as Topps archives will be
    in the next update. It's for IBM compat. and takes up 2-3 mb on your
    hard disk. I like it!
                                          Denny 

    OK, I'll keep everyone advised.  

    
    Once upon  a time I spoke with a shop owner about insurance, he doesn't
    have any because to get insurance on cards/memorabilia it is required
    by the insurance compoany that you provide them monthly updates on
    your complete inventory and its current value.  Else no insurance.
    
    Perhaps this is doable for an individual using some inventory software,
    but even then you can imagine it is a time consuming task.
    
    jeff
    

           
       	I had a similar experience with my Homeowners insurance company,
    	I tried to insure my collectibles and they wouldn't do it,
    	they said that stuff like that is covered under a policy
    	clause that covers personal property losses up to a specified
    	dollar amount limit.   Check your individual policies.
    
    
    Juan,
    
    I have been told the same thing, collectibles fall under the
    clause that covers personal property losse. I still think
    that it would be hard to put particular values on items that are rare
    and etc. It probably makes sense to take photographs of the items
    within your collection to have proof of what was lost.
    Just an idea.
    
    SteveO'

    How about the Lloyds of London,they'll insure anything,and you'll 
    have to pay big $dollar$ for insurance. I would relly like to insure
    my investment.
    
    John M.
    

    Talked to the guy from Great American Card Company last night.  He
    charges $50/hour for appraisal.  He said to make it worth my while,
    I'd be better off just getting the higher value stuff appraised.  Most
    later 80's and later stuff probably wouldn't be worth paying him for.
    Since I have some early 70's Mays, Rose, Ryan's and rookie cards of
    Largent, Payton, Yount and Brett among others, what I'll probably
    do is not get the later sets done and just do the ones with a book
    value above a certain amount...  
    
    -Walt

    How does one go about being approved as an appraiser of Baseball
    Cards / Memorabilia  and  so  forth ? I take it they must have a
    license of some type.
    
    John

    Don't bet on it.  I know that Hall's in Arlington is certified
    apprasier, but for the rest of these guys around saying they will
    do apprasials, there probably going to a current Becketts book for 
    prices and put it on a zooped-up computer program to come up with a 
    total value.  I'm sure 99% of us in this file could do that ourselves.
    
    For Memorabilia, your going to have to get an independent fair value
    or Market value, not what some card shop owner is going to charge the
    a retail customer for.  The insurance company is not going to pay you
    replacement value based on this.  And another thing, its like antique
    and sports cars, an insurance company will insure anything for any
    amount, but be prepared to pay for it.  All they required from me was
    a certified apprasied value of my car, and they set the premium based
    on replacing it.  And it wasn't cheap!! 

    Well, this is what Metpay told me they needed.  I'll see what happens
    as things progressed.
    

    I don't get the connection here.  Can you have *anyone* appraise the
    cards or does the insurance company provide a list of names.  Why
    should they take anyone's word for the value of the cards, are
    appraisers lisenced in some way?  It appears to me as if this would be
    a great opportunity to defraud the insurance industry.  
    
    Jon

    Hey, what an idea.  This may be our chance to get back at the Insurance
    companies for riping us off all these years on health and auto
    insurance.  Who wants to play the baseball card insurance card fraud
    game??

    Hey, you forgot the bigest scam of them all "Life insurance".....

    Its only a SCAM if you don't die.  Otherwise, your loved ones are
    better off if you have that $1M life insurance policy paid up.  Anybody
    else found out anything on this collectibles insurance, and whether
    they really do offer something.  It would seem to me some money could
    be made in this area, (non-business of course).

    
    I just asked MetPay about this last week, and they told me that
    I needed an appraisal. I asked another agent about it this week,
    he checked with the "office", and now he tells me that they will
    not insure sports cards. They will do coins, stamps, art, etc, but
    not cards. He suggested trying to locate an agency that might 
    specialize in card stores or something. 
    
    The other option is a safe deposit box or something. But then,
    there's not much fun in having cards when you have to keep them
    locked up.
     
 

    FWIW, what I did was go to the local hardware store and buy a 2.2 CU FT
    fire-proof safe. It cost me about $150.00.
    
    That way, they are locked up in case of burglary or fire (safe weighs
    200 lbs.), and I can drag them out to look at them any time I want.
    More secure than a shoe-box, and more convenient than the bank vault.
    
    The way I figure it, most break-ins are done by kids and drug addicts,
    and they're probably looking for something easier to carry than a heavy
    block of iron.
    
    
    John D.

    
    	John D.
    
    		I had been thinking about buying one of those fire-proof
    	safes, but the problem is that they are too small, for most of
    	us who have tons of sets and boxes, one of those safes wouldn't
    	even make a dent of all the stuff we collect, what we need is
    	a fire-proof wharehouse for under $500.  I know I can use one,
    	and I don't have as much stuff as most of the guys here.
    
    			Juan
                                                                

    Juan,
    
    You're right about size. I can't stuff everything in there, but I do
    have a shoe box full of Mays-McCovey cards that are in for sure. The 
    sets and stuff I leave out on the bookshelf. I'd be pissed about losing
    my 1987 Fleer set, or my 1983 Topps, but I'd live. If somebody got to
    my Mays collection however, it would be a much different story. Those
    cards were just too hard to find to leave lying around. 
    
    I coudn't afford the insurance, either.
    
    John D.

    Re: .27
    
    Your Mays collection along with your New Kids on the Block collection ;-)
    
    John

    I traded the NKOTB collection for a really boss "Yo, MTV Raps" set.
    
    John D.

    DO what I did, I put an alarm in my house and have my alarm 
    monitored for $25 a month.
    My bedroom were my cards are the door is alarmed.
    If someone opens the door it goes off.
    
  DAVE

BusinessWeek -  March 7, 1994  (reprinted without permission)

p.130  Got Your Collection Covered?

   Lost forever amid the rubble of the recent California earthquake were
rare baseball cards, autographs, jerseys, and other treasurers collected
by sports memorabilia fans.  But several who had thought to buy insurance
from Cornell & Finkelmeir in Wapakoneta, Ohio, were not totally bereft:
They will receive up to $10,000 each in claims from the company that bills
itself as the nation's largest insurer of sports memorabilia.
   Insuring collectibles can be an expensive proposition.  A sports 
memorabilia policy with a $250 deductible typically costs $1.35 for
every $100 worth of coverage, and the minimum premium is $500 a year.
But if your hoard of comic books, coffee spoons, or old jelly jars is
truly valuable, special insurance might make sense.

Fair value.  Of course, what holds value for one collector could be
worthless to another.  So the first step is to find an expert who can
decide whether you've got something worth insuring-against damage, loss,
or theft.  "Literally anything can be appraised, though it may have little
or no value," says John Lanterman, an appraiser in Bethesda, Md.  Collectors
clubs can often put you in touch with reliable professionals in your 
region.  The Appraisers Association of America in New York (212 867-9775)
and the American Society of Appraisers in Herndon, Va. (800 ASA-VALU), or
any of its local chapters will also be able to guide you.  The ASA, for
example, publishes a free geographic directory of appraisers by specialty.
   Appraisals can run into thousands of dollars.  You can sometimes cut down
the rates by taking your own photographs and compiling your own inventory.
(Store these records in a safe place outside the house, in case you later
have to submit an insurance claim.)  It is considered unethical for 
appraisers to charge a percentage fee.
   Moreover, you should quiz appraisers to determine their level of
expertise in the types of collectibles you want insured:  A Chinese-ceramics
expert may know nothing about antique dolls.  These days, insurance
companies are likely to investigate claims, says Elin Lake Ewald, chief
executive officer of O'Toole-Ewald Art Associates in New York, a
personal-property and antiques-appraisal firm.  Therefore, "if appraisers
put $80,000 on something, they better explain the basis for doing so."
   Once you are satisfied with an appraisal, present it to your insurance
agent. (Depending upon the collectibles, a bill of sale is sometimes also
required.)  You might already have adequate protection under your existing
homeowner's policy, although many insurers slap coverage limits of
$1000 or more on such items as silver and jewelry.
   Other companies don't have a cap per se, but many include an ambiguous
clause that limits their liability on "items of rarity and antiquity."  That
means you may have to add a rider to your homeowner's insurance or a 
separate personal-articles policy.  Very scarce pieces can be "scheduled" or
insured individually - sometimes at the request of the insurance company.
Since the amount scheduled is what you'll get back under a claim, you
should update policies on collectibles that appreciate in value.  "It's
often a good idea to insure only the most expensive items in your
collection," says Harry Rinker, editor of Warman's Antiques and Their
Prices ($14.95; Wallace-Homestead). For instance, oenophiles might be
better off protecting a few rare bottles of their wine against breakage
than insuring the entire cellar.

Set and Match.  It's crucial to find out how a settlement is made.
For example, if you're insuring "pairs" or "sets," your policy may include
explicit language on what kind of settlement can be reached if you lose,
say, a single volume from a set of rare books.  At Chubb & Son Inc., a
Warren (N.J.) insurer, a customer has the option of surrendering the
rest of the book set in return for the price of the entire collection.  Be
wary of companies that say they will try to match up and replace your
missing item.
    It's likely that you'll have to pay a bigger premium if you display
your valuables at trade shows or exhibition.  Under some policies, you'll
pay more for "mysterious disappearance" coverage, which may cut down on
the hassle of explaining how your items were lost of stolen.
    Some companies limit reimbursements for damages to your collectibles
outside the home.  Cornell & Finkelmeir will pay a maximum of $2500
for items damaged at shows or out on consigment and 25% of your total limit
on theft losses.
    Other insurers may issue policy discounts if your collectibles are kept
locked in safes or if they are backed by security systems.  In some cases,
the insurer may specify how your valuable must be protected.  For example,
on stamp collections with a value of more than $25,000, State Farm requires
that at least 75% of the goods must be stored in a fire-resistant receptacle.
Luckily, the company doesn't specify how often you may open the box to
admire them.

    
    	I resently had water damage to many of my cards...I had a pipe
    burst upstairs in the bathroom and before knowing about it, the water
    had come through many places in the 2nd floor and onto my card
    collection.  Many of my cards are protected...sheets...(Indians, Cavs
    and Browns)...but many open packs were stacked.  Metpay wanted a list
    of all the cards and their value.  I listed high end beckets and was
    reinbursted every penny.  I pay no extra insurance.
    
    	Hal