Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    When will these packs be on the market?  This is great.  I also think
    they do an exceptional job reprinting these old sets, the paper stock
    is better than the original, and print is usually clearer, they usually
    use one color ink.  

    
    This is great news.  For collectors.
    
    For those of us (and I number myself among them) who have an older
    set which they were watching appreciate, it's not so great.
    
    There will still be a number of people who insist on having the
    originals, but it will be a very small percentage of people.
    
    The same thing happened in the comics market.  Marvel (the Topps
    of comic books) began offering reprints of most of it's old
    issues, or deluxe reprints.
    
    This combined with the fact that there were so many NEW titles
    coming out (does this all sound familiar), left very little extra
    $$$$ for people to buy back issues with.
    
    I guess I can finally own a Clemente rookie.
    
    (Of course, this ruins my April Fools' joke for this year, but
    that's another story! 8^)

    
    As a pure collector I think it is great idea.  I'd rather have
    originals but given my limit of $20-$25/card ... reproductions is my only
    hope for the old stuff.
    
    However, I do have empathy for those who bought hoping for
    appreciation.  It's tough if the rules change in the middle of the
    game.
                

    
    I don't really mind (RE: my '70 set and appreciation).
    
    I didn't build the set to watch it appreciate.  I built it
    for very nostalgiac reasons.  And the building of the set itself
    brings back some very vivid memories.
    
    The fact that it's appreciated from the $600-900 range it was when
    I started it was nice to know, but to be brutally honest it just
    made me more upset with this hobby.  I couldn't afford to build
    that set now.
    
    Anyway, I'm very glad Topps is doing this.  VERY.  I hope (but
    doubt) it's more than one set a year.  More likely it's one set
    a year (so that today's sets can be archives in 28 years! 8^).
    
    At least we don't have long to wait for that '62 set John.  10
    years?  8^)

    Maybe the reprints will help people come up with different types of
    collecting strategies.  People could buy the reprint set and then want
    to build a set of the originals, but not really give a darn about the
    condition of the originals...because they already have a "mint" set.
    They could put the original and the reprint side-by-side in a book
    for comparison.  Someone could have fun like trying to find the WORSE
    posible specimens for their original set.  The wanted note could read:
    
    WANTED:  1953 Topps in any condition.....looking to downgrade my set of   
             1953 Topps.....cards must be in Fair condition or worse.
    
    Then everyone's junkpiles would be of some trade value instead of
    rotting in some 800 count box.
    
    Of course this would open the door to sleazes again......soon you would
    be hearing stories of someone who takes cards in Good condition and
    manually downgrades them in some form.  
    
    Think of the possibilities.
    
    PM

    RE: .7  Worst possible specimens
    
    I know (?) you're jesting, but I knew a guy who was building a 1965
    "monster" set, and he lived by the premise you stated. It was his goal
    to build a complete 1965 Topps set using only the absolute worst
    examples of the cards he could find. He was continually "downgrading"
    his set, and took it quite seriously. Missing corners, tape, pinholes,
    tears, and creases brought tears of joy to his eyes. 
    
    You should have seen his Mantle.   8^)
    
    John D.

     Finally seen some of the archive's cards.  They aren't what I
 expected.  They are white paper, glossy laminate on both sides.  Don't
 think they would hold an autograph very well unless you waited for it 
 to dry without having anything touch in fear of smudges.  I guess I
 expected a thick heavy cardboard type of card.  Anyhow they are still 
 nice.  They cost $1.29 a pack and $45.00 a box at Sports Cards Plus in
 Worc (by the Fair on Rt.20).  I also seen them advertised in the Herald
 for, get this, $99.00 a box.  Has anyone seen them cheaper ?  

Scott P.

    
    
    	Yesterday, at a card show, I bought a box that was already open,
    	and had 32 packs in it for $1.10/pack, that would come to about
    	$40 for the whole box.  Found 2 Mickey Mantles, 1 Ted Williams,
    	1 Hank Aaron, 1 Willie Mays, 2 Jackie Robinsons.  Haven't sorted
    	them out yet, but looks like about 80% of the set was there.
    
    	I'm glad that Topps decided to reprint these, I don't care if
    	they are reprints because I want them to keep them, not to sell
        them, and I would have never been able to have this set otherwise.
    
    	In fact, I rather have this set because all the cards are mint,
    	and they have a nice glossy finish, and the stock is much better
    	than the original ones, and they include players that were left
    	out from the original release.

    I just saw these cards this weekend. The dealers around here are
    selling them for $70.00 a box, and are hyping the sh!t out of the
    *scarcity*. One claimed he read an article that stated Topps disclosed
    their production run #'s at only 18,000 cases for the whole country,
    period. He quoted the article saying only dealers, no retailers like
    Toys R Us, will get them.
    
    The cards are nice, but at $70.00 a box, I can't justify it. At $40.00,
    maybe, but I'll have to find them. A friend bought a couple of boxes,
    and I got a chance to look 'em over. I like them. My friend said that
    you'd probably need two boxes to complete the set.
    
    John D.

    If anyone has connections and can get a case at a good price, I'm good
    for two boxes.
    
    John D.

    RE: The math
    
    Yeah, I know.....
    
    I tried explaining it to him, but it fell on deaf ears. He had a
    kind've feverish look in his eyes, and started to talk faster and
    louder, so I shut up. 
    
    Like I said, I'd like a set, but they're too expensive right now...
    
    John D.

    Oh, yeah, I've heard that a local shop is charging $10.00 for the
    Mantle card...
    
    John D.

    
    Is this a fact that reprint sets have had a negative effect on the
    value of the originals?  I can't see why.  The people who are
    interested in collecting the originals aren't affected by reprints in
    the slightest and those who aren't interested in the high price of 
    originals might even develop an appreciation for the older stars (which
    in turn might marginally increase the value of older star cards, which 
    appear to be woefully underpriced relative to today's latest rookie 
    "phenoms").
    
    I'd think this idea is a winner all the way around.  I'd probably even
    collect the nostalgia series if I could find them (I saw some joker
    selling the cards for $3/pack in the mall the other day...)
    
    glenn
     

    
    I bought one pack of these this weekend.  Dealers were charging
    $1.75-$2.50/pack.  Bought one to check it out.
    
    I was not impressed.
    
    They are nice cards, don't get me wrong.  But I'm not impressed.
    
    I told John it was more like holding a mini-photograph than a
    baseball card, but I like his description of a credit card just
    as well.
    
    I wish they had done them like they did the '52s.  No ultra-high
    UV gloss, just plain old cardboard reprinted cards.
    
    And the "cards that never were".  Look at the latest Beckett's
    (Fielder on the cover).  Go to the price guide.  Look at the
    Clemente card at the top of the '63 Fleer column.  That is
    EXACTLY what the Duke Snider '53T "card that never was" looks like.
    
    And dealers had taken the "stars" (Mantle, Mays, Williams, etc.)
    and put them in their display cases, in hard plastic, with price
    tags of $10-15 each.
    
    Puh-lease.
    
    Unless I can get a really good deal (well below SRP of $1.25/pack,
    $45/box), I won't bother with these.  
    
    -rjk

    Did they use the other paper to keep dealers from "forging" the
    new cards as old ones?
    

    
    	I don't think anyone can forge these Archive cards for the old 
    	ones, because these new ones are smaller, and besides, on the
    	back of the card, at the bottom, it says Topps Archives

    
    Like Juan says ... the cards are smaller, they used white stock
    (the old ones had grey stock), and at the bottom of the back of
    each card it says something like"
    
    	"1953 Archives
      The Ultimate Cards"
    
    And the new ones have an additional line that says
    
       "The Ones That Never Were"
    
    The new ones are not done as paintings in the same style as the
    originals.  The ones are black and white photos, with tinted
    (one color) backgrounds.  I honestly wish they hadn't bothered
    with the "ones that never were" if they weren't going to do it
    right.
    
    -rjk
    
    ps: The wrappers have "Proof of Purchaes" coupons on them.  I'd
        recommend holding onto them until we'll sure there won't be
        some kind of "Stadium Club" type offer available with the POP's.

    Has anyone seen these Archive cards yet at a reasonable price per box?  
    I got one pack in my stocking for Christmas and got the Ted Williams 
    "additional" card.  I wouldn't mind collecting these cards if they're
    available.
    
    Exactly how does this business work now where you can't get cards
    unless you're a dealer and if you're a dealer you can charge upwards of
    two times SRP?  Do the card manufacturers endorse this practice?
    
    glenn
    

Hiya Glenn!

I've seen the Archive packs at the Dugout of Amherst on 101A just west of,
and across the street from the Greenhouse Cafe.  I've also seen them at the
card store on the Milford Oval, but he doesn't hold the inventory that
other shops do.  Sorry, I can't remember any prices.  

I feel the same frustration about card collecting.  The dealers are charging
as much as the people are willing to pay.  I've got a feeling that people
who are buying new cards today as an investment are in for a big surprise.

Dan

    I saw these at a show this weekend for $2.50 a pack $85 a box $20 for a
    Mantle. Needless to say they were not selling too quickly. Two things
    concern me about the price of these falling 1) only the dealers have
    them ( it seems as though candy wholesalers i.e BJs won't be getting
    them ) 2) the first issue of these new types of sets i.e Topps Stadium 
    UpperDeck BB usually hold their value for some reason. I don't know for
    sure that BJs won't be getting them but a candy wholesaler I know
    doesn't think he'll be getting them.
    
    John

    
    These are indeed only available through hobby dealers.
    
    -rjk

    Will the new Wal-Mart, Sam's Club in Westboro, opening 1/27/92 be 
    carrying cards??
    
    So the majority of everyone thinks these cards will hold there value.
    Why?  Are they being produced in limited quantities, or is Topps only
    letting them out in small dribs and drabs, until the demand peaks for 
    this issue.  $20 bucks for a Mantle card and going up.  Come on.  I bet
    next year, this card will be selling under $8 bucks.  Saw a Ripkin 
    error card for $7.00 , remember when these were going for over $45 ? 
    Rare.  Limited Quantities.  Just like the Desert Storm Cards.
    This is a bunch of hype!!  I bet if everyone cleaned out there closets
    of boxes and cases of cards, there wouldn't be any shortage of any
    cards produced in the 80's, including the 89UD Griffey.  RAre my A_S!
    Rare and Limited is in everyones mind.  I wonder what next year will
    bring.  The evolution of the baseball card industry in the 1990's. 
    Someone should write a book about it.  When I saw Mr. Mint selling
    everything he had in his inventory, I knew then that the business had
    no long term stability.  Guess What?  Its all down hill from here on.

    >>     Will the new Wal-Mart, Sam's Club in Westboro, opening 1/27/92 be 
    >> carrying cards??
    
    They do in South Carolina.

    
    	RE: -1
    
    		If you know it, could you tell us how much they are selling
    	the Topps Archives boxes at Sam's in South Carolina ?.

>>    cards. First of all it shows you just how much the dealers are ripping
>>    people off  and it helps keep prices lower than what they could really
>>    be if only dealers controlled it.
>>    
>>    John


	If dealers where the only means of buying cards, the hobby would have
	fewer collectors. I being one of the them. I can't afford to go to
	dealers anymore. Warehouse and Shows are the ONLY way to go. Anyone
	still buying from the dealer should be shot!

    
    	Yeah, it's really interesting how the dealers build all this hype
    	about the scarcity of these cards, and why they are such a good
    	investment.  I regularly get, on the mail, a newspaper called
    	"The Coin & Sportscard Wholesaler" from Chattanooga, TN, I got
    	one last night, and on the front page, there is an article about
    	the "Mickey Mantle legend... always popular... That's why we
    	like his cards", and it goes on to say why the 1953 Archives
    	Baseball sets continue to boom, etc.
    
    	Then... they put an ad next to the article advertising the Mickey
    	Mantle card alone for $49.  That's right, $49 !!!.  Here is a
    	little paragraph from the paper:
    
    	"That's it folks, only $49 for the greatest card to hit the street
    	 in a decade.  Keep in mind that there are only 300 thousand cards
    	 ever printed.  Delaying an opportunity such as this one will only
    	 means that the card will cost more in the next few months.  That's
    	 why we strongly recommend you get out your checkbook, and order
    	 now one of these new issue Topps Archives Mickey Mantle cards.
    	 Remember, it is only $49.  How else can you own a piece of early
    	 American baseball history ?."
    
    	Would you believe that..?  $49 for the Mickey Mantle card!!!.
    	I have seen it at the card shows for $20, and didn't see anyone
    	buying them.  The sad part is that some people believe all this,
    	and will pay that outrageous price.  
    	

    Doesn't that just make you throw-up.  $49 bucks for a new card, which 
    cost about, .00001 cent to make.  (Mike K. verify that for me) .  Its 
    all hype.  I was at a show in Marlboro last weekend, saw a new Mantle
    '53 and asked how much.  The dealer said $20 bucks, its my last one,
    and I haven't raised the price yet to the going $25.  Its yours for
    $20, otherwise, I'll have to increase the price for the next sucker
    that asks me.  You know, the awful part is, I'll finally break down
    and buy this reprint for $20 someday.  I just have to have everything
    that has Mantle's face on it.  Anyway, the dealers I saw at the
    Milford, Ma show a couple of weeks ago were all discussed with business
    in general, and preferred to be home watching the football playoffs. 
    Business is off, and competition is verrrry stiff.  Good for us.

    
    Hey Rick?  You got the sportsflics disc of Mantle they issued back
    in '86/'87 timeframe?
    
    Was only available as part of a series of the sportsflics discs?
    
    -rjk

    One dealer had the Mantle at the show last weekend for $25.  When a
    friend and I asked him why so much, he said that it was...LIMITED.  He
    was serious, of course.  My friend said, "Yeah, limited to 18,000
    cases."  So this guys pulls out the calculator and 30 seconds later
    says that there are 324,000 Mantles.  Given the millions of collectors,
    $25 is reasonable, he added.  I said something about how the glossy
    coating was ridiculous but he liked it, course.  What did we do?  We
    looked at him and laughed.  Of course.

    
    Well, I finally got my boxes from Larry Fritsch last night!
    
    Opened one, and I got the Mantle, the Mays, the Aaron, Theodore
    Samuel Williams, Campanella, Jackie, Billy, Whitey ... wahoo!
    
    Fell only 30 cards short of a set (the biggest names being Feller
    and Slaughter).
    
    I know some of you have already completed this set, but if you're
    interested in helping me with the final 23 cards I need, send me
    mail.  I have a short want-list, and using the 1% of Beckett's
    guideline that a lot of dealers seem to be using, the most any
    card is worth is $1 (the Feller -- @ $105) -- so I don't need any
    of the BIG names.
    
    -rjk

    > Well, I finally got my boxes from Larry Fritsch last night!
    
    What's he charging, rjk? (I thought you didn't like these cards!;-) )
    I'm still moderately interested but having heard nothing but how the 
    price of the cards is continuing to rise, I sort of gave up.  Thought
    for a while that this set might break my running ten-year resolve not
    to collect new card sets, but it was not to be...
    
    glenn
     

    
    Now now Glenn -- go back and read my comments -- I also said that if I
    had to pay above SRP (suggested retail price) for them, I would write
    them off, and not collect them.
    
    Fritsch was charging $39.95/box, and $49.95 a set (which had changed to
    $69.95 by the time I called -- considering what dealers are charging
    for Mantle, Mays, Aaron, and Williams -- $49.95 is a bargain -- and
    now that I regularly see prices of $100-$125 for them, even $69.95 is
    /was a bargain).
    
    I called last night (a noter had asked me if they still had them at
    that price).  The answer is NO.  I asked what they were charging now.
    They're not.  SOLD OUT.
    
    They have received two shipments of 250 cases each (that's roughly
    6% of the cases produced for thos interested) -- and they've sold
    them both out.
    
    -rjk

    
    Saw this issue listed in the new annual baseball Beckett:
    Set $80
    Mantle $25
    Mays $12.50
    Aaron $9
    commons start at $.12 and go up to .$20
    
    these are listed with the '91 topps stuff
    
    Jim