Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    Thanks, John. Makes sense the way you explain it but it still stinks.
    
    I'm envisioning being one card short (say Darryl Irvine) and having to
    pay 50 cents for it. Jeez, sure takes the fun out of it.
    
    Rich
    

    
  >
  >                                  Dealers for the  most  part probably
  >  don't even  know  baseball,  especially  when  you  see them do this
  >  rookie pricing with some guy who's 30 years old  and finally made it
  >  to the majors.
  >
    
    The only reason dealers charge a premium for nameless rookies, even
    30 year old rookies who can never become hall-a-famers, is because of
    us, ***** the collectors ******, who are stupid enough to pay the
    premium prices the dealers charge. 
    
    No one puts a gun to collectors heads ...the "Industry" doesn't set
    prices ... we do.  If we pay the high price, we set the high price.
    
    Greg

    
    RE: .3
    
    	No the *COLLECTOR* wants one or two for his COLLECTION.
    
    	If all that were out there were COLLECTORS, the dealers would
    have rookie cards galore (which they do anyway, but that's another
    soapbox) available.
    
    	As it is, because of INVESTORS, who buys these unknowns up
    by the bushel full, looking for thaat next great "penny stock",
    the dealer prices them for whatever he can get.  The investor
    still buys 'em, it's the collector who gets it in the end -- having
    to pay more than a nickel (common price) for unproven rookies.
    
    	Try trading for your the cards you need.  I almost always
    manage to finish my sets WITHOUT going to a dealer by trading
    with people in here.  I know that John and I have helped fill
    many many want-lists for free, or occasionally charging common price
    for a large lot.
    
    	There are alternatives ...

    re;5
    
    But Mike, where do you do business to pick up bulk cards at
    a good price.  I've tried this approach with 2 local dealers
    with cards and they want Becketts price as soon as they are
    released.
    
    Newc

    
    Ha!  And Beckett's says they get their prices from talking to
    dealers and shops.
    
    Nothing fishy here huh guys?
    
    Every year when the new cards come out, the hottest rookies
    show up for $2.00-$2.50, the semi-hot rookies for $1.00-$1.50
    the career-journeyman and everyone else deemed a rookie shows
    up for anywhere from a dime to a buck.
    
    Part of it is people willing to pay this amount, part of it is
    dealers wanting to get their end of the long-term money on these
    players.
    
    For example.  A couple of years ago, all the price GUIDES had
    87F Will Clark listed for $3 -- ask John Damiano.  He was crying
    for people in here to buy them for him (he's on the west coast
    where they were going for $8-10).
    
    But if you asked a dealer if they had any.  Oh no!  Geez, wish I
    had some.  Sorry guy.  Let me know if you find any.
    
    You know why?  They knew that eventually he was going to be HOT.
    And hot translates into dollars.
    
    So they hoarded them.
    
    Is this wrong?  Is this illegal?  Is this immoral?  Nope.  It's
    their cards, and they have every right to do with them as they
    please.  They don't like that the market is scoffing them up?
    Hold out for a price more to your liking.
    
    Now that all the price GUIDES have it upwards of $25-40, you can
    see these cards everywhere.  Did Fleer suddenly print some more?
    More likely, one of two things happened:
    
    	- Dealers could get a really good price for their cards,
    	  so the price had reached a point where they'd rather
    	  sell it than hold on to it (which should be a lesson
    	  to people buying at that price)
    
    	- Mike Kelly sold his lot ... 8^)
    
    But for every Will Clark or Don Mattingly, there's a Bill Benes,
    a Joe Charbonneau, and believe it or not a Bo Jackson (after his
    first season, when he was in the minors, and creating windgusts
    with his whiffs his cards were as cold as ice).  But because the
    potential is there for BIG return, people are willing to buy a
    bunch of Bill Benes cards for pennies apiece.
    
    So, if everyone keeps their Bill Benes cards priced at a nickel
    apiece, and everyone wants 'em, what happens?  Why they disappear.
    So dealers begin elevating the price until it reaches a point
    where some people buy, some people don't, and they're able to keep
    some in stock.
    
    Is this a concious effort on their parts.  I really don't believe
    so.
    
    But back to Beckett's.  I can't count the number of times cards
    have appeared in Beckett's before we've even seen hide or hair
    of them out here.  And the price guide that's applicable on the
    west coast, is nowhere near applicable down south or in the
    northeast.  Different regions, different demands, different
    economies.  But Beckett's takes care of this a sweeeping disclaimer:
    "Remember, local and regional trends may affect prices in your area".
    
    I actually had a dealer tell me once, when looking over a stack
    of 1970 commons; "The Red Sox will be double-book, because we're
    New England".
    
    (Boy, have I gone off on a tangent or what? 8^)

>    (Boy, have I gone off on a tangent or what? 8^)

Ya, but it made for good reading :-)

>    I actually had a dealer tell me once, when looking over a stack
>    of 1970 commons; "The Red Sox will be double-book, because we're
>    New England".

Just once?!  I get this all the time when it comes to Bruins cards (I 
collect only hockey).  Drives me crazy!  It can even be worse than twice
as much...for example, Ray Bourque's 2cd Topps card has a Beckett price
of $4.  I've seen it going around here for $12 to $20!  That's ridiculous.
So when I was in Pennsylvania I stopped at a shop and picked up 5 of them
for $2.50 each (ended up giving them to a few friends)...  And we all
know this is how dealer's get the local favorites for decent prices.

Of course this is not just local to Boston.  I do some trading with 
people from around the country because they have the same problem.  I send 
them their local team, and they send me Bruins (at a reasonable price).  

...but I've digressed even further from .0

Cheers,
Dan

    RE: .8 (87F Will Clark)
    
    Gee, Roy, I don't think I was crying!  8^)
    
    FWIW, I ended up with about 15 or so, mostly by calling shops around
    the country (and a few noters). I never did find any around here for
    "book", but when they hit $40.00 all of the sudden every shop, table,
    and loon imaginable had a fistfull to sell. The card was blazing hot
    for about a month (during which time I traded 3 for a mint 1960 Mays,
    another for a mint 1952 Bill Rigney, and another for a mint 1955 Dusty
    Rhodes) and then the demand was satisfied with a glut. Everybody that
    wanted one had it, and the price slipped. Now they are collecting dust
    on the dealer shelves, but the price remains fairly steady. After a few
    other deals, I ended up with about 6 left, and they aren't sellable
    right now.
    
    So what I guess I'm saying is I agree with you, Becketts is bullbleep,
    at least on a national level. Regions are *extremely* different in
    price, depending on the card in question. That's why I usually confine
    my major aquisitions to out of state trips; Mays doesn't sell as well
    in South Dakota as he does here in NorCal.
    
    And even when you pick the right rookie, timing is critical. Even when
    a card is valued a high price, if all the dealers have a couple in
    their inventory, they won't buy yours unless you give them away, and
    only if you are civil while doing it.
    
    But them again, I'm not a skilled investor, and don't like doing it
    much. But, if you make the right move, you can enhance your collection
    a bit.
    
    Now, speaking of tangents, how was that?
    
    John D.
    

    RE: .11
    
    Following along on the receipt angle, I'm no expert but I'm willing to
    bet a single card sold at a shop is subject to sales tax. I don't
    recall ever getting a receipt or paying sales tax, with the exception
    of new packaged stuff.
    
    John D.