Conference school::sports_memorabilia

I saw a pack of these in a store yesterday that the owner/dealer had
received from Topps.  I thought they were called Topps Premier or something
like that.  Orders are limited to one case per dealer apparently.  This
particular dealer seemed to be excited by the hype, I yawned at the
proposed $1.25 per pack retail price.

jeff

    
    
    They are called Topps Stadium Club Cards. I saw the Mike Greenwell card
      
       from the set today. Looks they are real nice cards. This is Topps
    
       way of competing with Fleerultra and Donruss Elite, I guess.
    
    Lisa

    In this quarters Topps Magazine, there is a write-up on them.  I think
    they are very attractive, I saw a few of them, the fronts are all
    picture, no borders, and the backs have a ton of information on them. 
    They are running a promotion to Topps subscribers, I bet anyone can
    join, for $29.95 you will be a member of the Stadium Club, get a Nolan
    Ryan bronze card of his 300 win, and a selection of special bonus
    cards, 6 times per year, along with other membership stuff.  For the 
    novalty junkie,  I guess people will be jumping all over this, to get
    all the cards not regularly issued, and the Nolan Ryan card, in bronze.
    And also, I believe you get a years subscription to the Topps Mag. so
    your getting your moneys worth, ????

    
    I thought the backs had reprints of the players RC card, least that's
    what one dealer was telling me he saw.  
    
    jt
    

	Here it is folks ...

	According to the latest TOPPS magazine, there will be a superior
	selection of photos for the front of the cards, using a brand
	new photographic technology pioneered by Topps and Kodak,
	creating the sharpest, clearest images and color possible.

	The card backs show the new novel B.A.R.S.(Baseball Analysis
	& Reporting System) stats formulated especially for Stadium Club,
	showing chart of player's performances in particular situations
        such as how a batter hits against right handed pitchers. The
	4 color backs also picture the player's Topps rookie card.

	The first series of 300 cards will be issued to retail outlets in
	June, with a second 300 card series about 6 weeks later. The packs
        will contain 12 cards plus a special offer insert card. Retail
	price $1.25.  Most of the insert cards provide information on
	joining Stadium Club.  

	Charter members will receive a number of special Stadium Club items

	o  Charter member sets totalling 50 cards marking major events and
	   player highlights of the 90 baseball, football & hockey seasons,
	   including 32 baseball cards celebrating Nolan Ryan's 300th win,
	   the debut of Ken Griffey Jr. and Sr. together, post season award
	   winners (Cy Young, MVP, etc.)

	   9 NFL cards (Derrick Thomas and Ottis Anderson), and 9 NHL
	   cards (Wayne Gretzky and Brett Hull)

	o  About 6 times a year, members will receive special members-only
	   Stadium Club cards commemorating events and player highlights of
	   the 91 season (as they occur) in all 3 sports, including the
	   World Series, Super Bowl, and Stanley Cup cards.

	o  A limited edition 10 oz. solid bronze medallion replica of Nolan
	   Ryan's Stadium Club card front and commemorative back.

	o  A 1 yr. subscription to Topps magazine, if you already subscribe,
	   you will receive a 1 yr. renewal).

	o  Personalized Stadium Club membership card and ID number.

	Other insert cards in retail cards will offer specially produced
	books containing more extensive B.A.R.S. stats.

	Stadium Club membership is $29.95, but for a limited time (until
	October 31, 1991) you can use up to 10 proof of purchase seals from
	Stadium Club retail packs each worth $1 toward membership for a total
	discount of $10.  Application for charter membership must be received
	by October 31, 1991.     Or... for a limited time, until August 31,1991
	Topps Magazine readers can join Stadium Club at a $10 discount ($19.95).
	The address to join is:

			Topps Stadium Club, Dept. TM6
			P.O. Box 5775
			Unionville, CT 06087-5775

	For those of you who might be getting any ideas, they are only
	accepting one order per reader.  

		What is that rumble I hear ......?

	Could it be a stampede of baseball card fans rushing to join ..?

    I would like to know how some of you expert collectors feel about this
    club, and the package deal just mentioned in .6.  Does anyone feel this
    is a good deal, or will Topps put out 500M of these special club cards
    and eventually they will end up in building 19 as surplus, "no
    demand"??

	I just got off the phone with my local cards dealer. I was asking him 
	how soon he was expecting the new Topps Stadium Cards. He told me that
	he was trying to purchase and many cases as possible, but the cost to
	him was $1200 a case/$100 a box. 

	Has anyone else talked with there dealers about this subject? I'ld
	like to know more.

	Mike	

    
    
    	It doesn't make any sense at all, $100 for a box of 36 packs comes
    	out to about $2.75 a pack.  Who is going to pay that kind of money
    	for a wax pack.  Besides, Topps announced that the suggested retail
    	price would be $1.25/pack.
	

	Juan,

	I think the reason for the price hike is, 'Demand'. Topps has reported
	that this will be limited to 15% of there total Topps cards for 1991.
	I've also heard that Topps is returning checks to dealers because they
	can't fill there orders. 

	I guess we can just wait to see what happens. I really would like to
	buy a box or two, but, it's seems that the price will be ^$50, if not
	$100 a box (or more)...

	We all know want demand can do to this hobby....

	Mike 

    
    Regarding the upward price trend on baseball cards.....
    
    My friend owns a baseball card store in Needham, he is very concerned
    about the industry and how price gouging is affecting the hobby. He
    told me that topps is only allocating 1-10 cases to dealers who have
    done a great bulk of business with topps during the last business year.
    Those who haven't are not being allocated any cards at all, thus those
    who have the product, can dictate the price.....If interested in
    discussing this, you can call him at Gilberts Sports Nostalgia at
    (617) 444-1561 (his name is Gary, he really knows his stuff)
    
    eric

    
    
    
    		Dictate the price is right, yesterday at the card show I
    	went to, the dealers were selling wax packs of Topps Stadium Club
    	cards for $3.50 each, would you believe that ...?  $3.50 for one
    	wax pack !!!.  And they were asking the same price for the Upper
    	Deck Baseball Jumbo cards.  Needless to say, I didn't buy any,
    	but I saw some people buying them.

re .15

  That's not so bad.  I saw one guy at a show trying to get $5 a pack!!!

    I can top that!  At a show in San Jose they were for sale for $8.00
    per pack.  They were selling single commons for $1.25.
    
                 CRAZY

    
    
    		The dealers can ask for the moon, that doesn't mean they
    	are going to get it.  If we all refused to buy the overpriced
    	cards, and they just sit there and gather dust, you will see how
    	quickly the prices come down.

    I've seen them for $3.00 a pack in a store in Worcester. I went
    to another store in Worcester and they were talking about the cards,
    saying that the Nolan card was going for $30 and the dealer was 
    tring to get some wax boxes but can't find none. He has 4 coming in 
    and they are all sold or spoken for.
    I agree with 269.19, I think it's geting a bit carryied away, it's
    geting too expensive to collect cards as a hobby and, we should
    band together and let them sit there on the shelfs until the prices
    come down.
    
    Miguel

    
    re .20: $3 a pack is pretty good!  Can you pick me up some?
    lowest I have seen around southern nh is $5 a pack and very few
    retail dealers have any of them (yet).  Dealers are reportedly
    paying $150/box "wholesale" just to get boxes.  One dealer who had
    3 wax boxes, said he started with 2 cases 2 days ago and was down
    to 3 boxes left, retailed all of them for $175/box.
    
    I sympathize with the sentiments expressed in the last few replies,
    but I don't believe the price will come down much if at all.  There
    seems to be a market for high priced/somewhat short-printed "upper
    crust" cards.  No matter how ridiculous, the older "kids" in this
    "hobby" have extra cash they are willing to spend on perception.
    It will ultimately depend on Topps and how limited the keep the run.
    
    Not that they are worth several dollars a pack, but these cards are
    beautiful, the rookie card reproduction of the back is one of the
    greatest features ever put on a card.  There is something neat about
    being able to flip over the current year card of a player and see the
    front of his (Topps) RC.  Plus they still put alot in the way of stats
    on the back, the fronts and the ultra-gloss of the cards have to be
    seen (and touched) to be appreciated.
    
    Hype like this will be tuff to counteract with a hobbyist boycott.
    This is becoming more of a pure "stock market" type business then
    it is still a hobby.  Unfortunately, I think there are enough non
    hobbyists to keep afloat ridiculous prices for awhile to come.  It
    is a shame in a way, anybody want to get together and flip some
    cards?  winner takes 'em, don't forget and flip any special favorites.
    
    jeff
    

    Reg Note: 269.21
    
    Jeff, on the Stadium Cards I went back on Friday and there up
    too $ 3.25 a pack, if your intersted the name of the store is 
    "BASEBALL HUT" and it's located at 84 West Boylston Street,
    Worcester, Ma. his hours are Mon - Fri 1pm - 5pm the number at
    the store is 508-852-6446.
    
    Miguel

    I saw them from $3.50-$5 a pack over the weekend. Nice cards, I passed
    though...

    
    I still didn't see many here in southern NH this weekend.  One show
    $6, the next day $7.  In each case only one dealer had them.  I'm
    searching for an unsuspecting store where the candy distributers
    drop a few boxes and they are selling for $1.50-$2/pack.  This is
    definitely not the product to go to your favorite card dealer or
    store for (at least not right now).  They are participating in the
    hype full throttle.  I have one lead on some packs, if anyone isn't
    too offended by something in range up to $3/pack send me some mail.
    
    I also have some singles to sell or trade if anyone has a few and
    isn't planning on trying to make a set (guess I should move the
    'wanted' note...)
    
    jeff
    

    If they're only supposed to be in the $1.50-$2.00 price range.. can't
    someone order a case?

    
    The lastest word I have heard is that the small amount released so
    far was to the candy distributors and that supply has basically
    dried up.  Within a few days or a week, regular dealer orders for
    one case apiece should be hitting the stores.  One dealer locally
    thinks the price will dip in the next two weeks (say to a mere
    $140-$150/box retail from $175), then it will shoot back up ala
    Opee Chee premiere hockey ($10/pack most places, you thought $3
    and $5 was bad).  All this speculation falls apart if Topps decides
    to open the flood gates, but if it stays one case per dealer and
    no reorders, speculators may want to rush in during the next two
    weeks.  speculators or 'panic buyers/suckers' depending on your
    point if view...
    
    jeff
    

    
    
    I can't keep quiet anymore!
    
    Are you people intelligent lifeforms or sheep?
    
    $175 farking dollars for ONE box of baseball cards???!??!?!?!?!?!?
    
    And you think $3 isn't too bad, because they're going to go upwards
    of $10/pack.  Do you know why they'll keep going up -- because people
    pay $3, so why not charge $4, they'll pay that, why not charge $5,
    oh that's not too bad, I saw one dealer charging $7, hey I bet I
    could get $10.
    
    For the prices you're paying for this "premium" issue, with the
    mini-rookie card on back, you could BUY a lot of these players
    rookie cards!  You're talking about paying a couple of hundred
    dollars for a 300-card set!  That there's going to be MILLIONS and
    MILLIONS of!
    
    Other than small regional test issues, Topps just cranks up the
    presses and lets fly.  They print, and print and print and ...
    
    Even if they limit to 15% of their "normal" production (the magic
    number all the companies seem to be using) -- that's still one
    HELL of a lot of cards.  The Saint and I did some math yesterday,
    and you people who think this stuff is scarce, rare, etc., would
    be shocked.  No.  No you wouldn't.  It wouldn't disway you in
    the least, which is a shame.
    
    As to OPC Premiere.  All you people that are paying primo prices
    for them?  How's this grab you.  For every $120 worth of candy you
    order from one of their candy distributorships, you get one FREE box
    of OPC Hockey premiere.  That means they went back to press to print
    more.  And that means they can do it again if they want.  It also
    means these things ain't quite so scarce as people would have you
    believe.
    
    Limit of one case per dealer?  Yeah, right.  UD Hockey said the
    same thing.  Try calling Big Bob's.  He has right in his ads
    "call for prices on sets or caseSSSSSSSSSSSSSS -- PLURAL --".
    CCC (Card Collector's Co. in NY) had an ad six weeks ago, and if
    they were limited to one case, well, that must be the eternal
    case, because when I called to check their price, they still have
    'em.  One would think that a set going for $45-60 elsewhere would
    be sold out with a price of $30 advertised in a national magazine
    wouldn't one?  Especially if said dealer was limited to one case.
    
    Oh btw, how much are Stadium Club Tiffany sets going to go for?
    How about update sets?  Errors?  Variations?
    
    You people slay me ...
    
    							-rjk

.30> And you think $3 isn't too bad, because they're going to go upwards
.30> of $10/pack.  Do you know why they'll keep going up -- because people
.30> pay $3, so why not charge $4, they'll pay that, why not charge $5,
.30> oh that's not too bad, I saw one dealer charging $7, hey I bet I
.30> could get $10.
    
    	Yeah, so?  This is exactly what I was referring to when I
    	made the stock market analogy in an earlier reply.  I see
    	no problem with paying $3 to sell at $4 or $5 to a greater
    	fool.  Works right up to a peak until you run out of fools.
    	This is what cycles are all about.  It's a free market system
    	at work, with all elements of speculation and greed present,
    	along with the fundamentals of supply and demand.  Ain't no
    	use complaining about where this nice little 'hobby' for kids
    	went. 
    
    	If your point is you can't understand why people would buy at
    	these prices to collect, then I understand what you're saying and
        agree with you. I can't see buying much stadium (or OPC Premiere) for
    	myself to keep, but I'll buy it order to resell it for a profit.
    	If my timing is right I will make money, if the prices come
    	crashing down before a resell what I have, I lose.  Such is the
    	nature of a speculation in a free market system.
    
    	jeff
    
    

    
    RE: .32
    
    	I expressed an opinion about this "trend".  The opinion is
    basically -- anyone that buys into this hype, deserves EVERYTHING
    they get.
    
    	You want some recent examples of over-inflated hype, that
    proved that caution was better than reckless abandon ... ?
    
    	88UD Hi# sets.  When they came out, they were selling for
    	$75-85 -- and EVERYONE had to have one.  "Oh, it's got the
    	Walton rookie, the this rookie, the that rookie".  I regu-
    	larly attend shows (I doubt anyone in here goes to HALF the
    	shows I do), and I see it sitting on dealer's tables at
    	$15-20.
    
    	89F Billy "FF" Ripken.  Took less than a month for the card
    	to break the $100 barrier.  Now it sits on tables untouched
    	for $20.
    
    	89PS William Perry.  I saw this card for $275 (no lie) when
    	it came out.  The dealer had a stack so high, it was disgusting.
    	He obviously got some of the early boxes.  I just passed on this
    	card at a NY show (where EVERYTHING is overpriced) FOR $40.
    
    	90-1F Bk / FB.  Initially boxes were going for $45, and people
        were eating them up.  SCARCE.  RARE.  LIMITED PRODUCTION (I locked
        in on a hundred shares or so myself when I heard LIMITED
        PRODUCTION).  Took about six weeks (or about the time it took most
        of the dealers to get their shipments) for the price to be down
        to $15-20/box.
    
    	90-1 Skybox!  Here's a hoot.  I watched a guy walk through a
        show with a case of these, selling to dealers for $75 a box.  The
        dealers turned around, and SOLD OUT at $90 a box.  One month later,
        I bought my box for $28.
    
    	Hear me now, and heed me later.  Topps does not make "limited
    production" items except for the small, regional, OCCASIONALLY,
    test issues.  Ohterwise, they print enough to pay off the national
    debt.  15% of a "way too much" is still "a whole hell of a lot".  These
    cards will be out, and there will be plenty to go around.
    
    	You can buy all the packs/boxes you want now for $3/pack, in
    the hopes of finding another sucker willing to pay more.  I hope
    you do find that sucker -- I want him to spend all his money --
    so he'll get the hell out of MY hobby poor and foolish -- and I 
    wish you well.  But you'll end up regretting it a month to two
    months from now, when Woolworth's and Toy's R US have the packs
    **BELOW** SRP (suggested retail price).  And all you have is a
    lot of expensive coasters.
    
	These cards are not 86-7 Fleer basketball.  You know, sets
    that were printed when no one cared about them, so very few
    people bought them, and even fewer people bought unopened boxes
    for "later".  These are pure, grade-a, dyed-in-the-wool, 100
    percent, guaranteed, hype-driven, mass-produced, goota-have-it,
    cards.  ANYTHING produced now is producted in enough quantity
    that you can find it.  You name me something produced in the
    past two years that's become "HOT", and maintained/improved
    it's price, and I'll go in on a box or two with you.
    
    	I'm not bemoaning the loss of innocence in the hobby.  I'm
    not decrying the American Way.  I'm passing on my opinion (which
    some people seem to care about -- wish they could convince my wife
    it carries some weight! 8^) in the hopes of keeping people from
    throwing away their money.  You can take my opinion for what you
    think it's worth, and do with it what you will.
    
   	"This just in.  Topps Stadium Club Cards have dropped 1/4 point
    	 in the past half-hour.  Panic selling has set in, and prices
    	 are expected to drop even lower.  Mass suicides are being
    	 reported in metroplitan areas.  Film at 11."
    
    								-rjk

    
    Well, I was playing devil's advocate a bit there, just wanted to
    see you guys get a little riled up.  While you were getting tired
    of the stock market analogy, I was gettting a little tired of the
    'there goes the hobby' whine.  So I thought I would be a bit sarcastic
    and throw a little feul on the fire.
    
    Seriously this time...
    I really do feel the higher prices on the so-called "premium"
    cards is a niche in the hobby that's here to stay.   There are
    enough "investors" and older collectors with money to support
    an upscale niche, above your basic kid collector.  It's a bummer,
    but it's reality (in my opinion).
    
    Back to Stadium club in particular:
    
    I also agree with you both that Topps is likely to crank them out, 
    since they always have.  I maintain that longer term (like at least a year 
    from now) these cards will be nice ones to have for several reasons:
    
    1) "premeire" edition - these will always be the first year of
       stadium club and it seems to me that 1st year sets always do well
       over time.
    2) They are really well produced cards, great look, nice photo quality.
    
    Now, if you guys disagree with 1) or 2) above, please tell me why.  If
    not it becomes I matter of timing for those who do wish to *collect*
    these cards.  For those who do wish to collect or invest long term
    in stadium club, how does one judge when a good time to buy is?
    Since there is a second series coming in about 6 weeks, one can't
    wait forever, are you saying wait until they hit Toys R Us?
    
    BTW, there is a way to keep ahold of the innocence of the hobby that
    alot of us enjoyed when kids.  Collect with a kid.  Of course timing
    is everything here too, my oldest just turned 6 and he still reminds 
    me of the sheer fun of collecting when we "play cards" together.  But
    he also gets more in tune to the $ aspects as he gets older.  My
    2 year old is still into bending and flushing or dunkin', the 16 month
    old is adept at throwing and spilling things into the 6 year olds box.
    
    jeff

    For the Left Coast noters...Costco was selling the Stadium cards last
    week.
     I didn't hear what the prices were.
    
    
    
    
                              -pj-

    This line of reasoning (heard at several shows this weekend) sounded 
    pretty logical to me, series 1 could be a nice one to own long term.
    Typical dealer hype or does it make sense to anyone else?  (very
    interested in opinions from the veterans of the hobby, part time
    dealers, is this a load of dung or is the possibility there?)
    
    the theory:
    Topps realizes they need to be a player in the "upper shelf" market, 
    they have to use Stadium Club to be a player against fleer ultra, 
    OPC premeire, Leaf, & Upper Deck.  Hardly anyone wants the tons of 
    regular issue 1991 topps baseball, even topps knows they are in trouble.  
    They create (have Kodak create) a premium baseball card, release it 
    with much hype and supposed limited quantity, creating a mystic about 
    the cards.
    
    They lose all this if they produce in mass, at least with series 1 
    Stadium Club, Topps will forgo making money and will not crank these 
    out in mass quatities.  They have to in order to be a player. If they 
    do what they always have in the past (huge printing), it would be the 
    last straw for many dealers and maybe for topps itself.
    
    
    (several dealers did mention they thought factory sets were a distinct
     possibility, but more then one wanted this from topps so they would
     have something break up for singles, seeing as pack are still too 
     exspensive  to break open just for singles (still around $1200/case, 
     $115/box according to several SportsNET "jockeys/addicts", in store
     type dealers still haven't rec'd their one case))
    
     

    
    I talked to a friend of mine yesterday who is a dealer, knowing that I 
    don't collect baseball (yet) and the fact that he has been a good
    friend since being a toddler he told me straight up... This is all
    crap.  these cards were 1st shipped to stores buying over 20K worth 
    of cards from Topps consistantly. a second stage shipment of these
    cards will be done on June 17th to all other card shops  then a third 
    stage of shipment will be done in large qty's to retail chain stores 
    (ie KMart)  all three shipments are of the same cards not different 
    series... so why pay more ???? These will be around in large qty's
    soon.   He did openly admit that he got his hands on 2 boxes that he
    found in this little hole in the wall convienence store in Lowell and 
    bought them for $3.50 pk & sold them in a heartbeat for $6.00 a pack. 
    
    People are buying them for stupid prices but hey it'll only last
    another 2wks then you'll find them around at first they'll still be
    trying to get top $$ for them 
    
    Ron
       

    I too find this hype very amusing.  I believe based on the fact that
    these cards do not seem to moving in my area at all that the bottom
    will fall out.  At a Saturday show they were selling for anywhere from
    $3 to $5 a pack.  Folks, they weren't selling.  I was there for about
    three hours and at a dealer table were they were selling for 3 bucks he
    did not even move half a box.  I think if you hold out the price will
    come down and they will be abundant.
    
    RE the note who said first issues do well.  I think for some sets this
    is true.  I can think of a few that have not done well nor do they seem
    to have the potential to do well.  For example 88 score BB, Proset
    hockey, and both Fleers and Donruss's original issues have not created
    much excitement.  I realize those were issued when the hobby was in its
    infancy.  It seems that doing well on a premiere issue is predicated on
    supply and rookies.  
    
    I was curious to know just how one figures out when cards are in short
    supply.  If I listed to the dealers I would have to buy everything
    because according to them this really going to take off....  I have
    found so far that being patient is the best way to maximize my buying
    power.
    
    jon 

    RJK Welcome back-The flame thrower seems to be mounted on the back
    of Tony's old Turnip truck.  I didn't like having you as the stealth
    moderator-Your blip on the radar screen is as big as ever.
    Usually I don't have an opinion on these kinds of things, but this time
    I do:  I'm siding with Roy.
    Stop the presses.  We actually agree.  Can detente be far behind.
    
    Oh by the way-this is real.   BJ's received a tractor load yesterday.
    
    ALL of the big guy's were there at 7:45 am to be first in line.  It
    was gone by 8:15.  
    
    The dealers will crack soon and the stuff will be falling. 
    It's a strong issue.  If you got it high hold and pray.
    It will go up.
    
    Oh yes one more interesting thing-It isn't selling in the Mid West
    and Topps is diverting all follow up shipments to East Coast
    (paradise) and the West Coast (paved).
    
    Mike

    
    Thanx for the info/opinions.  I do think .41 is correct in that
    the second wave shipment won't do much to the prices, these retails
    dealers at the card shops have been drooling to get in on the high
    markup.  Also, some of them tell me that if they took only a 
    reasonable markup that the cards would be gone out of the stores
    too quickly.  With only 12 boxes to sell, they want to keep them in
    the store awhile presumably because a "hot" product draws in retail
    traffic (who may buy other things).
    
    I'll keep my eye on Toys R Us for later in the summer, at a reasonable
    retail price per pack these cards will become fun to collect (maybe
    even you'll put together a set then, eh John?  ;-)  Until the 3rd
    wave the money grubbing investors still have time to sell into the hype.
    (i better hurry :-)
    
    jeff
    

    
.43>    Oh by the way-this is real.   BJ's received a tractor load yesterday.
    
.43>    ALL of the big guy's were there at 7:45 am to be first in line.  It
.43>    was gone by 8:15.  
    
    	  Why do these guys want it so bad?  They must believe also
    	  that there is still some time before the dealers crack.  
    	  Sounds like the proverbial hand writing is on the wall, i.e.
    	  bj's is getting shipments.  Any idea what bj's was charging?
    
    	  Will Fleer Ultra put on a further damper?  One dealer who was
    	  trying to sell $115/box said he may get a few more and
    	  see how those go, but then he was going into fleer ultra's.
	    
    	  jeff
    	  

    
    	Ref.: .43
    
    		What BJ's were you referring to ?.  BJ's in Westboro 
    	doesn't open until 11 AM MON-SAT and at 12 Noon on Sunday.

    I didn't ask what BJ's (sorry).  It must have been within 50 Miles of
    Boston, but i don't know where.
    I was convulsed with laughter.  
    Don't give too much credit to the dealers.  they don't trust each other
    they will crack and quickly.  They will need to raise cash to support
    the next big win.  Most of those guys are cash poor.  I know of 4 shops
    in the Boston area that have closed.
    Mike

    From July Beckett's - TOPPS Stadium Club (Hi)
    
    Will Clark 		1.25
    Dave Justice	2.50
    Frank Thomas	7.00
    Rickey Henderson	1.00
    Alex Fernandez	1.00
    Jose Canseco	1.25
    Nolan Ryan Tux	2.50
    Bo Jackson		1.25
    Juan Gonzalez	3.00
    Ben McDonald	1.00
    Ken Griffey Jr	4.00
    Kevin Maas		2.50
    
    FWIW
    
    Pat

    OK, so where did you find them for $35 per box??  Let us in on your 
    secret place.  Are there any left.  I need a fix, I have to have a box
    of these overpriced cards so I'll have something to open this weekend.
    Come on guys, let us in on your secret source for these babies!!

    
    Yes let us in the bargain basement would you John.  I know you are
    not the money grubbing investor type, but $35 is incredible when
    they are still selling dealer to dealer at $100 plus.  Convinced
    now that these can be had much cheaper from the big retailers later
    in the summer, I sold most all the stadium club sets and cards I
    have (had).  Just yesterday afternoon I got $115.00 from a dealer
    for an unopened box I had, sold a set of 1-300 for $110.00 to the
    same dealer.
    
    I think all the baseball "upper shelf" product (ultra, opc, etc.)
    still to come will futher drive down Stadium club in the weeks ahead.
    When you combine that with the unknown production from Topps and
    what appears to be and "end user" shunning of these cards at the
    high prices, it seemed like a screaming "sell signal" to me.  You folks
    convinced me, but some dealers at least haven't cracked yet. At
    $35 a box I would certainly like to collect them, who is having
    the fire sale?
    
    jeff
    

	My local dealer is buying boxes at $75. and selling for $2.50/pack.
	Limit 6 packs., he told me to wait another month, they'll be down
	to $1.00-1.50/pack or $35-45 box. That's a dealers price, I'm sure
	BJ's, Spags and other discount store will be selling them for much
	cheaper.

    
    Well, now that a dealer has spoken, I guess it's gospel.  8^)
    
    							-rjk

    
    This just in from our news bulletin service.
    
    An error has been spotted on the Bob Welch card!  This is one of
    those sure to be fixed, very important that is, errors.
    
    On the back of Welch's card, the "comments" section states:
    
    "Dominated batters is 1991.  Made batters hit his pitch".
                       ^
                       `--- the error.  Should be "in".
    
    Latest word from cardnet has dealers buying this card for $45,
    in lots of 100 or greater only please, and selling for $75.
    
    Should you wish to see this card, stop by my office.  I have a
    stack of them, but I waiting for my broker to give me the "sell"
    recommendation before I let any go.
    
    

    So where did you guys buy them for $35..00 a box ?
    
    
            John M
    

    
    Before ANYONE buys into this "scarce" B.S., pick up an copy of
    the July issue of Tuff Stuff (Roger Clemens on the cover), and
    read the "Hooked on Hockey" article.
    
    It's all about how "scarce" OPC Premiere cards *really* are.
    
    					-rjk

    
    An Osco had them last week for $1.89 and sold out in 2 days (60
    boxes). The manager said the dealers were "camping out" for them.
    
    Lionel is also sold out ($1.49)
    
    depressed but still looking, Jim 
    

    
    My sisters boyfriend's friend got a pack at 7-11 for .75c. When
    we went back they were all gone. The price club store is getting
    them in and selling them for 26.00 a box limit is 1 box/per store
    and they are taking down names to adhere to this.

    
    It seems that TOPPS is upset with the dealers pricing of these
    cards so high. They are now releasing them to chain stores to
    help get the prices down and let the dealers know there intend
    was not to SCR*# the collectors.

    
    
    Oh, and where did this little tid-bit come from?  An upset dealer?
    Someone who paid a fortune for these cards and is now going to end
    up eating them?
    
    I'm sorry, but Topps intention all along  was to distribute to the
    chain-stores.  They were one of the first to begin doing so BEFORE
    the card-explosion, and they always will.
    
    Topps issues are not scarce, nor will they be.
    
    Topps makes their money selling their cards.  They make no more, or
    no less money when a candy wholesaler sells his alotment to the local
    shyster, er I mean, dealer.  Ditto when someone shows up at BJ's and
    buys the whole allotment.
    
    But if indeed Topps actually is making a response to try and make
    sure enough of these "scarce" cards make into the collector's hands
    then BULLY for them.  However, Topps has always been very unresponsive
    to consumer demands, and very much towards the bottom line.
    
    And the bottom line in this case is that Topps just had one of their
    worst quarters ever, their 40th anniversary celebration is a big
    flop, the only reason they sell as many cards as they do is because
    they're everywhere (read: relatively inexpensive).  If they do
    anything to piss off the minute loyal following they have, they're
    dead.  Plain and simple.
    

    Hey Roy.  Glad to see your commentary hasn't diminished much over your
    vacation from the notes file.  Just to let you guys and gals know, that
    at the BB CArd Auction last evening, a box of Stadium club cards went
    for $95.00.  The bidding was hot and heavy for them.  I guess the
    demand is still there, like the Desert Storm cards that were going to
    be scarse.  Anyway, glad your back!!  I really enjoy your articles in
    here.  You should be an editor for SCD. 

    
    (Actually, I was missing six, but the Ron Darling card a mangled
     corner, so ... )

    
    The local Toy R us got 1 box this weekend. I bought the last 5 packs
    @ $1.29 ea Series I.
    
    
    Jim

    
    Credit to The_Saint for this one ...
    
    Topps
    Stadium
    Club
    
    T
    S
    C
    
    Tough
    Sh*t
    Collectors
    
    								-rjk

    
    Now you can buy TSC "proof" cards.  (I could see no discernible
    difference at a glance, maybe someone in the know can shed some
    light on what the difference between a regular premium card and
    a proof premium card is).
    
    Frank Thomas was the prominent one I saw this weekend for $150.
    
    Believe it or not, more of the dealers had "proof" cards than
    had the regular cards.
    
    Oh John?  I need a Frank Thomas to complete my set, you wouldn't
    happen to have a dupe would you ... ?  8^)

    I think that the Proof ( I prefer to call them poof as your money goes
    up in smoke) Cards are the ones stolen from the Southboro Printing
    Plant that don't bave the crown in the logo.
    Mike

    re 269.72
    Proof cards ( I call them poof cards because they make your money
    go poooooooooooof ) are the cards stolen from the Southboro printing
    plant before their last print run.  The crown is missing from the logo.
    This stuff is all over the place-
    Mike

    
    Some kids had alot of this stuff a couple of weeks ago at a show
    here in ABO. They said they were prototype cards and were asking
    big bucks. My first impression was that they were shipped without
    ever going through the whole process. Mike makes a good point,
    maybe they were stolen before they had a chance to finish them.
    The gold crown piece must be the last step.I have a Trevor Wilson
    with the gold stipes and crown in the middle of the card, maybe
    I can get $100 for it :)
    
    Jim

    
    Thanks for the info on poof cards Mike (I think you shoulld 
    trademark that ... 8^).
    
    The only amazing thing to me was that so many people had the
    poof cards -- much moreso than the "real" cards.
    
    And in NJ no less ...

    200 complete sets in sheets were available at $ 10.00 a sheet.  
    95% of the dealers that were approached passed on the opportunity
    because they were   TOASTY.
    

    re .78
    I really try to stay out of these rat holes.  I'm not good at it.
    John, How do you know that the dealers didn't tell Topps, the Cops
    and the hobby rags?
    By the way, do you write down the plate numbers of all of the cars
    that speed past you on the highway and tell the staties?
    Do you know anyone who cheats on their income tax ?
    Do you tell the feds?
    Many dealers contacted and were contacted by the police through Topps.
    Save your rocks for your own house.
    Mike

    re .80
    John, Did you tell the Police about the cards?
    

    
    Any of you west coast noters see stadium club series I popping up
    recently?  I heard a tale that hobby dealers/distributors on the
    west coast were just recently getting their original orders.  Seems
    a bit late, but perhaps this would confirm that either topps did
    print more or someone is trickling out some of their hoarded supply.
    
    Series I took a big leap in the new Beckett's, from $90 to $140 for
    the series I set.  It is interesting that the reported flood and
    great oversupply by Topps that folks were claiming would happen by
    July never happened.  
    
    Where is series II?
    
    jeff
    

    
    Sorry Jeff, but TSC **did** hit retail stores, just as we predicted
    they would.
    
    **But** -- you can imagine how long they lasted.
    
    Most every dealer at card shows has them now.  It's all a question
    of whether or not you want to pay for them.
    
    If people don't pay, the price will come down.  If people pay, the
    price stays conistent or goes up.  Supply/demand.
    
    I really think there are a lot more out there than you're giving
    credit for.

    
>    Sorry Jeff, but TSC **did** hit retail stores, just as we predicted
>    they would.
>    
>    **But** -- you can imagine how long they lasted.
    
	What I was referring to were replies like .41 and .53 in this
    	note.  Clearly this did *not* happen.  
        
>    Most every dealer at card shows has them now.  It's all a question
>    of whether or not you want to pay for them.
    
    	I don't see that at shows in southern NH, typically only one
    	or two dealers still have boxes and only two or three boxes
    	per dealer (at least that's all they bring to the shows).
    
>    I really think there are a lot more out there than you're giving
>    credit for.
    
    	Perhaps, but you do have to admit they never showed up in the
    	mass quatities in retail stores that some claimed they would.
    	And the bottom certainly hasn't fallen out.  Now we have Beckett's
    	confirming the high prices for everyone.  
    
    	jeff
    

    
    I dunno.  Until series II hits the stores (bwah ha ha ha ha), there's
    always time for more series I to come out.  8^)
    
    
    The big problem is that Topps did not offer these to all the dealers
    who normally order from them.
    
    They only offered them to dealers who had done so much business with
    them during a certain period of time.  Measured in thousands of
    dollars.
    
    So if you're a part-time dealer who orders a couple of cases, or a
    show-owner, who sells two or three cases of Topps product -- you
    ain't getting none.
    
    What does mean to us, as (ahem) collectors?
    
    It means that the biggest dealers, with the biggest bankrolls, and
    most likely the MOST advertising space in SCD (sounds like, but may
    not be ... Rig Rob's, Flew Cork Hard Company, Shot Hard VTB),
    control most of the available stock.
    
    And well, shoot, if they print that it's "hot", "scarce", "sliced
    bread", it has to be true doesn't it?
    
    Of course the fact that these franchises control a large part of
    the available stock and are dribbling it out into the hobby at
    outrageous prices, only makes their claims truer and truer.
    
    I don't buy into it.  I still contend -- 15% of a whole hell of a
    lot is still a hell of a lot.

    
    Yeah, I think series II has a chance of showing up in some serious
    quantities, now that topps has seen what happened with series I.
    If not series II, then certainly football and hockey.
    
    In the latest Topps magazine, they admit to being suprised as heck
    at the demand for stadium club, they claim to have way underestimated
    the demand for these cards at $1.25/pack.  In the same blurb, they
    say they are running the presses 24 hours a day/seven days a week.
    I think this will show up as larger availability of series II baseball,
    as well as football and hockey.  But I would real suprised at this
    point to see wide availability at the retail level of series 1.
    
    jeff
    

    
    Start looking for series 2 this week, my source is telling me his
    will be here Aug 19. I got series 1 from him too, he got those about
    a week after I saw them at the shops.
    He told me there was a delay but did not no why, I speculated  that
    Topps was probably updating the update, I hope ( Ivan Gonzales,
    Jeff Bagwell, and Ryan's 7th no no).
    Supposedly series 1 sets were going for $175-$225 on the "net" last
    week so we'll probably see the Beckett prices continue to move up
    for the next few months.
    Personally I like these cards and am surprised and impressed that
    Topps was able to market this set as well as they have. To me the
    series 2 contents are going to be critical for an overall successfull
    set . I would imagine it will be rookie pack. I would suspect it
    will be very hot and will command $5 and $10 prices for the likes
    of Cedeno,Scott, Plantier, Mo Vaughn , Knobluach and Lewis. And
    $20 - $30 for Van Poppel and Erickson
    
    Jim
      

    I'm guessing ----- but here is the way I think it will go
    
    Why does Topps say they printed lots and lots and it's still high 
    priced?  I think that the dealers that bought in at 90-100/box
    can't lower there prices.  Therefore they hoard and buy up
    everything that comes along.  Joe consumer sees high prices 
    based on availability.
    
    Was it, will it be shipped to retail chain stores? YES
    
    Do I trust Topps?
    No.  Would it be a surprise to anyone if
        - A third series called update were printed that contained cards
    from Series 1 and 2
        - All stadium club members could order factory sets?
        - Topps decided to keep printing Series 1 because they are
          good citizens.
    I still havn't bought one pack-I've seen the cards and love them,
    but I'd feel like a chump if they came out super cheep after I
    spent big bucks.  I'm holding.  And hoping.  I'll know by
    the Shriners show in November.
    
    

    
    The appeal of this card is ...
    
    	- the nice photo selection
    	- the rookie reprint on back
    	- the high-gloss, high-quality appearance/feel
    
    And not the "limited" nature of it's availability.  To Me.  To
    investors, they know that because of all of the above, collectors
    really want this set.  They wanted Topps to give them something
    they could like about Topps, and Topps delivered.  Now the
    investors, and mega-dealers are taking advantage of the fact that
    there is a very desirable set out there.
    
    I tend to think these cards would've sold no matter what -- just
    like John.  It's a lot like video-tape sales.  Would you rather
    sell 10 million copies of E.T. @ $24.99 or half a million at
    $100.00?  You still make tons of money, but you have a lot more
    satisfied customers (something Topps sorely needs) if you price
    it lower, and make it available to 99% of those who want it.
    
    Instead they cut out the little dealers, dealt with the Rig Rob's
    of the world, and alienated a WHOLE lot of people.  Not to mention
    generating a whole lot of negative press for themselves in the
    trade papers (hyped up ads aside).
    
    -rjk

    
    In any kind of collectible production you'll find that a "limited
    production" marketing strategy is employed. In dolls, plates, coins,
    or art, this IS what makes these more valuable and inherintly more
    collectible. Topps took a look at the success of the '90 leaf set
    and appears to have followed that formula only with better quality
    and what appears to be compareable distribution. I know there are
    many opinions as to the distribution , however it appears Topps
    has stuck to the marketing plan. 
    When these first hit we saw prices like $5-$5.50/pack, then when
    the dealers scarfed up the inventories at Price Club, Osco,ect
    the prices fell to $3.50, now with short supply we are back up to
    $6-$6.50 and some thing tells me they will introduce series 2 at
    around that price figuring that series 2 will eventually go over
    $6.50 anyway, especially if Topps sticks to the plan like they did
    with series 1 and there is no reason to think they won't. 
    
    
    Jim
    

    
    Re: .-1
    Would that be complete sets, series I and II?  I can see the rabbits
    and pavement pounders stalking Sears and JC Penny's already.
    
    jeff
    

    
    The Christmas catalog will be out the first part of Sept., I just
    called Sears.
    
     
    

    
    Yes!  Mail order, that will be very nice, I have had good experience
    mail ordering cards from Sears.  The one time the cards arrived 
    opened with the most exspensive cards removed, I had no hassles
    returning them to my local Sears store for a full refund.  This
    eliminates potential worries about shipping damage, they will make
    it right if it arrives in less than "mint" condition.  I know what
    I'll be putting on my xmas list!
    
    jeff
    

    
    Hey Jeff ... ?
    
    I think you owe a certain couple of noters an apology ...
    
    Or at least an "awright, so you were right ..."  8^)

    
    
    	At the card show I went to over the weekend, I heard 2 dealers
    	talking about the coming Factory sets due in December, one of
    	them was saying:  Yes, I heard they are due to come out in
    	Christmas, I'm not too happy about that, but I don't think
    	that is going to affect the price of the wax packs.  I don't
    	plan to lower the price of my wax packs.

    
.102>    Or at least an "awright, so you were right ..."  8^)
    
     
    'awright', youz guys were at least partially right :-)
    
    The best line about this I heard in the last week was that the BCN
    article was wrong, the repeated word off the "net/wire" was that someone
    had been on a radio talk show to deny it and BCN was going to print a
    reaction next issue!   Yeah, and I'm sure whoever is spreading this gem
    is holding a single box of the stuff.
    
    Hey I've heard that TSC cards go great with milk, yum, yum. Tell all
    the dealers you know! (present dealer company excluded, of course).
    
    jeff
    	

    
    I've got the Pennys Christmas catalog right here. There are lots
    of cards, Auto balls, Lithos, and bats offered but no std clb.
    
    	limited ball (ball point pen on sweet spot)
    
    	Ryan	$50
    	Bench 	$50
    	both Griffeys	$50
        Mantle	$80
    	Mays, Aaron,Clark,Clemens,Griffey jr, Rose, Jackson, Fielder,
    	and more $40
    
    	Bats
    
    	Schmidt and Canseco $190 ea
    	Mays Jackson Griffey jr, and Aaron $150 ea
    
    	Footballs
    
    	Montana $180
    	Taylor	$140
    
    
    Jim
    	

    
    And I thought HSC was over-priced .... *whew*
    
    -rjk

    According to Sears they ordered 200,000 sets to be delivered
    to stores and homes through the catalogue by Thanksgiving !!!
    
    Clarification-
    Sears ordered 200,000 sets.
    They want them in their stores by Turkey Day
    They will start shipping via mail order after Turkey Day.
    
    I want it to be so, but it doesn't make sense.  If the buyer at
    Sears were competant wouldn't they buy 2 zillion sets?
    
    This will be fun to watch
    

    
    Sears is VERY cash-poor right now Mike.  How much is each of
    these 200,000 sets costing Sears?
    
    If they're costing $10 each -- that's $2 million that Sears
    owes Topps.
    
    -rjk

    
    I hope they set a limit on these , because all you need are 1000
    dealers ordering 200 sets each and poof, good-by prices.
    
    
    Jim
    

    
    re: .107
    Mike, did you find out from Sears when they were available to be
    ordered (via the catalog dept.)?
    

    If Sears is cash poor this could work for them.  
    Buy "x" number of sets to be delivered by Thanksgiving.  Get them for
    30 bucks each with 30 day terms.  Sell most of them (catalogue) within
    one week, keeping a very limited # for each store (15) and have a 
    very positive cash flow from the profit and the use of the money 
    owed to Topps for three weeks.  
    + this allows them to suck the unsuspecting parent and child into their
    store to buy cards that don't exist just in time to see all of the
    toys that they have for sale for Christmas.  There is also a
    possibility that the parent will buy something else for "Johnny"
    when they see how disappointed he is.
    
    
    Personal Note:
    I try not to be naive or cynical, however I'll bet 10 Jack Clark
    commons that this is the way that it will unfold.
    
    Scrooge Mc Duck is alive and well and lives at Sears Tower with
    his nephews Huey, Dewy (not to be confused with Dwight Evans)
    and my favorite SCREWyoue  

    
    Ah, but Mike -- how many of the people who get those sets from
    Sears are going to put them on the handy dandy Sears credit card?
    
    They don't even bill you until they're able to fill your order,
    so they don't MAKE any money on this.
    
    Then, when they DO fill the orders, how many people are going to
    pay it off right away?
    
    One other thing -- I've never been able to find one card in a
    Sears store -- only in the catalogs.  I used to order my football
    sets from them (Sears) in the early-mid 80's because it was so hard
    for me to find someone carrying them!  But I never saw the cards in
    a store.
    
    So advertising that they have them IN THE CATALOG isn't going to lure
    Johnny, Mr & Mrs Johnny, all into Sears, only to not find it, and buy
    something else.
    
    And yes Mike, Sears is in a major cash crunch right now.  Believe it.
    I own them.  8^)

    	I went to a card store in Worcester on Saturday and the
    dealer had a box of Stadium Club 2 for $6 a pack. Said that a 
    friend of his picked them up in Maine for $110 a box.
    
    Miguel

    
    Yeah, and that justifies $6 a pack ($216/box) -- 100% markup.
    
    -rjk
    
    
    (I guess I should buy all the bread in central mass, and charge
     double for it, huh?)

    Re back a few...
    
    Sears, like all financial institutions sell its recievables (what
    you owe) at a premium. The buyer pays for some portion of the 21%
    interest that Sears charges you. They don't wait around for you to pay
    the bill.
    
    NT 

    
    Anyone hear what the delay on series 2 is being caused by?
    
    
    Jim

    
    Yes, I saw some yesterday at a card shop, the owners had gotten
    their one case direct.  They were going for $3/pack.  Not many big
    name stars in series II, I assume loads of rookies since there were
    not that many rooks in series I.  Series II has Clemens, Erickson,
    Bagwell, Ripken and alot of players I have never heard of.
    
    jeff
    

    
    Jeff,
    
    	Did you see the Bagwell card? If so, what did the rookie card
    on the back look like? I wasn't aware that he had a topps card yet,
    unless they are putting the '91 updates on the back.
    
                                            
    Jim
    
    

    
    Good question, I didn't actually see a Bagwell, the shop owner
    said he was in series II.  I did see a Clemens and Erikson.
    
    Must be the 91 update if anything, I'll let you know if I see one.
    
    jeff
    

     
    Maybe topps went ahead and printed the '91 update before series2.
    This would make sense marketing wise and would explain the delay
    on the first shipments.
    
    Jim
    

	OK Guys, I have good news and bad news.  I'm afraid it's more bad
	than good.  The good news is that the Sears Christmas catalog is
	out.  Here is the bad news:

	On my way home from school today, I stopped at the Catalog booth
	at the Natick Mall, the new Christmas catalog was on display.
	I picked one up, looked up baseball cards in the index, they were
	supposed to be on page 566, but there was nothing resembling
	baseball cards on that page or the next one.  Back to the index,
	there was another entry for basketball cards on page 467, I looked
	there, and that's where the baseball cards were.  

	They have complete sets of Upper Deck, Topps (regular cards), Score,
	and many other cards and supplies, but no trace of any Topps Stadium
	Club anywhere.  I inquired with the clerk there, she didn't know
	anything about it.  I asked her for a number that I could call and
	talk to the Catalog people, she gave me 1-800-366-3000, I called
	the number, and inqured, the person didn't know anything about it
	either.  I asked her to talk to her Supervisor; she did, and told
	me that her Supervisor had already received a couple of calls
	inquiring about the same subject, and other than that, she didn't
	know anything either; if it isn't in the catalog, it's not available.

	I hope this is not a cruel hoax, and I hope there is some rational
	explanation.  If there isn't any rational explanation, and it turns
	out to be a hoax, whoever started it better gets out of town  FAST !!!
	because he's going to be in a lot of trouble when we catch him,
	'cause I'm in a KILL KILL KILL mood right now.
	
	Where is the PANIC button... ???
			

Hmmm...baseball and basketball.  Notice any Hockey sets in that
Sears catalog?

Dan

    
    Does anybody think that the fun is taken out of the hobby if you 
    can go to Sears and buy a complete set of anything you are looking 
    for (except Stadium club cards Juan)?  Where is the collectors part 
    in this ?  also if you can go by the stuff from Sears do you really 
    think that it will appreciate in value ?  There must be sooo many 
    cards out there that Topps and others are selling 3 times more than 
    they had ever imagined and there won't be any cards from this day in 
    age worth $5K....
    
    
    Ron
    
     

	One of the many rumors circulating about the Sears/Stadium Club 
	connection is that the BCN article was based on rumor, and that
	Sears never consummated a deal with Topps in the first place...

	I tend to believe this one for one simple reason: I haven't seen
	a single article in SCD, Beckett's, etc. that mentioned any SC
	sets being sold by Sears; if Sears were selling them, all the rags
	would be telling us about it.

	Ron O.

    
    Not to change the subject on anybody, but regarding .120 and
    the Bagwell RC question, a dealer I spoke with last night at an 
    auction says the Bagwell back has none other than Bagwell's first
    Topps issue:	a reprint of his stadium club card!  Same picture
    in minuature on the back as on the front!  Apparently this is true
    for several other cards in the series too.
    
    jeff
    

    RE: .126
    
    � Does anybody think that the fun is taken out of the hobby if you 
    � can go to Sears and buy a complete set of anything you are looking 
    � for (except Stadium club cards Juan)?
    
    There's very little FUN to found in the "hobby" anymore as it is.
    I prefer IMMENSELY to build my sets through wax packs.  If it weren't
    for opening wax packs, I'd probably be gone in a minute.
    
    But sometimes, in fact many times lately, it's much easier, and
    cheaper to buy the complete set -- no matter WHERE the source.
    If I have to buy a box of Leaf cards for $80, and then purchase
    additional cards to finish the first SERIES, or I can order the
    whole set from someone for $50 -- guess which I'm gonna do.
    
    Sears has been selling complete sets for a long time!  Long before
    this current "fascination" with the hobby by major retail stores.
    And at extremely reasonable prices.  Hell, they were my only source
    for FB cards for a loooooong time.
    
    � Where is the collectors part in this ?
    
    collectors are pretty much non-existent, and even so, they are most
    likely happy about this circumstance.  if a major retailer can
    provide the sets at reasonable prices, and cut out the (sorry Mike,
    I know I'm going to anger you, but the majority of them are, so ...)
    scumbag dealers -- I'm all for it.
    
    � also if you can go by the stuff from Sears do you really 
    � think that it will appreciate in value ?
    
    Do I really care.  I collect for the enjoyment.  Check out any price
    guide for recent sets (produced in the gazillions), and you see that
    NONE of it has retained it's price very well.  And in the long-term,
    none of it will ever reach the prices realized for the older, more
    scarce, harder to find in nice condition cards -- except in dealers
    minds.
    
    �  There must be sooo many 
    � cards out there that Topps and others are selling 3 times more than 
    � they had ever imagined and there won't be any cards from this day in 
    � age worth $5K....
    
    All the card dealers could cut their production by 50-75% and there'd
    still be more cards than there are collectors.  It's going to be the
    investors who are in for a shock when 20 years down the road they
    try and sell a case of this year's topps, and realize -- it ain't
    worth diddly -- cause there's very little interest in it now.
    
    People are in this hobby for nostalgia.  I feel like a kid again
    when I open wax packs, trade cards, sort my cards, break 'em out
    to look at during a game .... there ain't no nostalgia tied to today's
    cards for me.  8^(   So why will there by in 20 years?
    
    a few years ago, the '84 Donruss set was selling for near $250, and
    the Mattingly rookie was fetching $125-150 of it.  It was supposedly
    the second scarcest set behind the '84 Fleer Update.  The president
    of Donruss was asked what he thought of all this.  He was astounded.
    Said they'd printed enough of those Mattingly cards to retire the
    national debt at that price!  Imagine how many that must be boys and
    girls.
    
    The reason older cards reach the values they do is many-fold:
    
    	- there are a hell of a lot less of them available THEN and
    	  NOW.  moms threw them away, kids traded, flipped, and lost
    	  'em.
    
    	- how many of you have a soft spot in your heart for a player
    	  from the 40's, 50's, 60's, or perhaps even the 70's?  how
    	  many of you consider any of today's players worth mentioning
    	  never mind attaching any kind of hero-worship to?  i collect
    	  clement items, the saint collects koufax, rick gasparoni and
    	  tony-the-turnip collect mantle stuff.  all far scarcer and
    	  desirable than the rookie card of frank thomas.
    
    Ah hell, forget it.  Not worth any more of my time.  I'll sum it
    up this way:  I love the fact that I can buy today's cards for a
    reasonable price from a retail store (when the scumbag dealer hasn't
    cleared out their supply) -- and I'm a collector.  I think ALL
    COLLECTOR'S rejoice at this prospect, while investors cringe.
    
    -rjk

>    
>    also if you can go by the stuff from Sears do you really 
>    think that it will appreciate in value ?  There must be sooo many 
>    cards out there that Topps and others are selling 3 times more than 
>    they had ever imagined and there won't be any cards from this day in 
>    age worth $5K....
>
    as John Lennon would say ... imagine ... a world where collectors can
    afford any card they want and the investors have moved on to another
    hobby ... sounds great to me!
    
    
    Ron it's just a matter of how you view the world 
    ... on one side you have investment value (limited # & shortages) and
        appreciation
    ... on the other side I would have a complete run of Mays, Aaron,
        Clemente etc.
    
    IMO - I'd rather be able to afford any card I wanted and give up the
    appreciation.  Coins and Stamps have had a boom and bust cycle and I'm
    hoping the same happens to sports cards so I can grow my collection
    (without considering it an investment)
    
    Greg
      
    

    
    re.128
    
    Thanks Jeff,
    
    	It sounds like they found a way to include alot of the new players.
    I for one am happy to see guys like Bagwell, and hopefully Ivan
    Rodriguez get in this set. 
    	I can't wait to get my box and open those wax packs uh Roy?
    :-)
    
    Jim

    
    I love finding those good cards in the bargin box. Last weekend
    I got and '89 fleer rck pack for $1, Got a Griffey
    
    I love picking up the over looked  cards, cards the dealer might
    not be aware of, Bagwell ,Chamberlan, ect
    
    And I love to open packs with my son.
    
    
    Jim
    

    
    
    	RE: .126
    
    	Ron:
    		Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I was in school this week,
    	and I was also too upset to do it.  I was just waiting for the Sears	
        Christmas catalog to come out to order a couple of sets of Stadium
    	Club cards, because I hate paying the over-inflated prices that
    	the dealers are charging, and now, the whole thing was a rumor.
                                                  
    		Most of what I was going to say has already been said by
    	Roy and John and others, so I'll just say that I agree with them,
    	and I just want to have my set and not pay more than I have to,
    	and I don't buy them just to make money.  If the set happens to
    	appreciate in value, and sometime in the future I find myself
    	having to sell it because I need cash, that's fine, but that is
    	not my primary goal, and if it doesn't appreciate at all, well,
    	that's not so good, but it doesn't bother me.

    
    Thanks for the call John.  I went down to get some, but some
    guy laughed in my face, and told me to go back to the turnip farm
    where I belong.  Said his business, Boomtown Bozoes was buying
    them all.  8^(
    
    -rjk

    I took a ride out to the K-Mart in Chelmsford for lunch but,
    didn't see any there.
    One store has them for $4.00 a pack in Chelmsford.
    
    Miguel

	Yesterday, I received my Topps Stadium Club Charter Member cards
	set, there were 9 Football cards, 9 Hockey cards, and 32 Baseball
	cards, typical Stadium Club quality and format, except that the
	backs instead of the usual statistics and photo, have like the
	front page headlines of a newspaper called "Stadium Club Herald"
	and huge headline letters about the event in question, for example,
	one of the Nolan Ryan cards reads:  A NO-HITTER FOR THE AGES,  the
	Hockey Gretzky card reads: GRETZKY TAKES NO. 2000, and the football
	cards reads: DERRICK THOMAS SETS SACK MARK.

	Another thing that is unique to these cards is the caption at the
	bottom that reads:  CHARTER MEMBER in gold letters.  At the card
	show I went to today, there was a delaer that was selling these
	cards individually for $1, $1.50, $2, depending on the player.
	
	I was talking to this dealer about the cards, and I mentioned to him
	that I had received my set on the mail yesterday, and he asked me if 
	I wanted to sell my set.  How much are you paying for it ?, I said. 
	$50, he said.	What did I say ...?.  No, thanks, I want to keep
	my set.  You can bet that if he is willing to buy them for $50, they
	are worth a lot more than that, and all I had to do to get them was
	to join the TOPPS STADIUM CLUB, and it only cost me $20 because
	I sent my request in before August 31, 1991.  If you want to know
	the details on how to join, see note 269.6

    
    You can join AFTER August 31.  That was the offer issued through Topps
    magazine.
    
    The offer issued WITH the Stadium Club cards, is the exact same
    offer, except the price is $29.95
    
    However, you can get a dollar per "TSC proof of purchase" off of
    the membership pruice -- up to $10 (10 POP = $10 off = $19.95
    membership -- same offer).
    
    This offer is valid through October 31.
    
    Anyone wishing or needing one of the TSC I insert cards to take
    advantage of this offer, send me a SASE, and I'll send you a card.
    (Sorry, I only saved enough POP for myself).
    
    	Roy J. Karlson
    	PO Box 224
    	Clinton, Mass. 01510-0224
    
    -rjk

    
    I heard there was a limit on the number of members, is this true?
    I saw these at a show here yesterday, they are sharp! One dealer
    said he sold the Griffey for $40. That sounded high to me, but
    $1 and $2 sounds too low.
    
    Jim

    
    Nothing on the insert card, except "limited time offer".  The
    limited time is until 10-31-91.  It says nothing about "or while
    supplies last".
    
    Some dealers are spreading rumors about this (I had one flat out
    tell me that the absolute deadline was 8-31-91 this weekend), but
    I'm going by the black and white information on the insert card.
    
    If they cash my check, we'll know it's legit.  Otherwise, I
    complain.  And ask anyone -- I really know how to complain!  8^)

    
    	After reading my original note 269.6, it says that they are only
    	accepting one subscription per reader.  I interpret that to mean
    	only one membership per household, although I'm not 100% sure.

BTW, I believe the membership numbers are sequential, so someone who signs
up late, say from now or into Oct, should be able to tell us approx.
the total memebership (and therefore the total quantity of "charter" cards).

jeff

    Is stadium club membership cut off.  I had a dealer tell me this
    weekend that Charter Membership Applications are being mailed back
    with the checks.
    
    Has anyone else heard this?
    Mike

    Or more than 1 per household?
    

I received my membership letter last week.  I don't remember the exact number
but I know it was over 79500.  I mailed it in back in August.

db

    
    They'll print as much of this stuff as they have to inorder to
    satisfy the demand. I'm sure they will honor any app. post marked
    Oct.31. 
    
    Jim

    
    Any word on Std. Clb. football yet, ain't seen hide nor hair a dem
    rascals 'round these here parts yet.
    
    Jim

    $2.50/pack there... Seen them in shops between $3.25-$4.00/pack...

Hi,

I'd like to join this club.  Are you able to join after October 31??
How can I get order form?

Thanks 
Nancy

nemail::lundn
221-5864

    I got my letter back last week that I sent in mid-October.  I'm
    number 139,xxx...
    
    

    
    The majic # of regular issue std clb must be 1mill then.
    6x160k=.96mill.
    I sent mine in on mon. oct 28 and I'm #153xxx.
    
    Jim
    P.S. I the club honored both of my kids applications too (same address)
    
    
    
    

    
    Oh, but guys!  A reputable dealer in SCD has in his advertisement
    that there are only 10,000 or so of these charter membership
    kits available, so you can get one from him for $49.95
    
    You people with numbers in the 100 thousands must be mistaken.  This
    dealer wouldn't purposely mis-represent the true number, would he?
    
    (I've also seen the cards for sale for $75 and $150)
    
    -rjk

    
    I talked to a dealer at the last show, he said he had already recieved
    9 sets of the charter member cards all for fictitious members of his 
    family. He plans to sell all but 1, therefore there will probably be
    more like 100k on the open market.

    
    Yeah, I know Jim.  We have someone in here who just got his
    letter, and he was in the 153 thousands.
    
    There's going to be a LOT more than 10k out there.  LOTS more.
    
    -rjk

    
    I forgot to mention that the letters state that if you change your
    address, they will send you your cards to the new address if you send
    them your member #, name, and old address. So if any one is thinking
    about still getting in on this there probably is a way to do it.
    You would have to purchase the member#, name, and old address from
    someone who has a number of fictitious memberships. They may or may not
    have the cards already. I applied in late Oct, got the letter last
    week, and was told in the letter the cards will ship in Dec. Additional
    cards will be sent out thoughout the year.
    
    Jim

    
    Yesterday I received a Bronze "No Hitter" Nolan Ryan Baseball
    card. I also got a keychain from the Charter Stadium Club. It
    is a good investment, I seen the Charter cards going for a 
    good penny for now?? And got one issue of a Topps magazine since
    joining the Club. I think its a good investment. I seen a special
    offer for special cards from Upper deck in their blister packs.
    
    
                        TEMPE::RABINO
    

    anyone have the latest prices handy for these puppies?  i bought a pack
    today - and got a griffy jr!
    
    availability seems to be down (at some shops anyway).  what prices have
    you seen for packs or boxes?
    
    -jb

    
    The latest Becketts (Jan. '92) has it at $12-16.
    
    All TSC prices seem to be dropping EXCEPT TSC I.  Prices are
    remaining high on TSC I.
    
    -rjk

    I also received my Nolan Ryan Bronze card today, pretty heavy.
    I also got the key chain and found the empty slot and took it for
    granted that it was for the first set of cards we got. 
    
    Miguel

    Did you guys already receive your cards?  I got the box but no cards...
    
    -Walt
    

    
    I haven't got diddle except my first issue of Topps Magazine.  And
    the letter said they'd be mailing my membership package in
    November.
    
    Two letters have gone unanswered, and the address for TSC is a PO
    Box, so I have no idea how to get a phone number for them.
    
    Anyone ... ?
    
    -rjk

    
    Run my mouth off, and I get the following in the mail y'day.
    A form-letter, but there was a hand-written note inside that
    said "Medallions shipped 12/23.  Cards to ship in Jan.".
    
    Here's the information for the rest of you:
    
    JANUARY 1992 --- STADIUM CLUB INFO BULLETIN #3
    
    Dear TOPPS CHARTER AND STADIUM CLUB MEMBERS,
    
    In order to answer questions that have arisen from our membership,
    we are producing this info-bulletin.
    
    FACTS--
    
    1. The 1991 club membership goes through Hockey season.  We will be
       mailing materials through August 1992.
    
    2. The components of the membership are being sent as produced;
       Charter member 50-card set, kit + medallion + key-chain,
       membership card, approximately 50 member only cards, a 1-yr
       subscription to Topps Magazine, and member only offers.  The order
       in which you recieve the components may vary from member to
       member, depending on location or production plans.
    
    	ALL MATERIALS WILL BE FULFILLED TO EACH MEMBER
    
    3. The "empty space" in the kit is for the 50-card set -- it will
       be shipped seperately.
    
    4. If you have not received your 50-card set, we will be mailing
       additional sets in January.  It is a small box being shipped
       bulk mail.
    
    5. You will receieve approximately 5 10-card sets -- as they are
       produced.
    
    6. Membership cards will be produced seperately and included
       with product offers or renewal information.
    
    7. Offers will be distributed with bulletin or product.
    
    8. 1991 Stadium Clubmemberships are available through 1/31/92.  All
       benefits of Charter membership (except 50 card Charter Member
       sets and medallions) will be included.  Membership is $29.95 or
       $19.95 + 10 proof of purchases from Stadium Club products.
       Membership requests MUST be postmarked by 1/31/92, and the first
       mailings for any subsequent memberships will begin in February.
    
    Changes of address, errors in names, or other problems can be mailed
    to:
    		TOPPS STADIUM CLUB
    		BOX 5775
    		Unionville, CT 06087-5775
    
    We realize that you are very excited about your STADIUM CLUB
    CHARTER MEMBERSHIP.  We are making every effort to provide you with
    your collection of great moments and special players.  Your patience
    during this period of product distibution is greatly appreciated.
    
    [end]
    
    FYI, here's the list of what membership entitles you to:
    
    	o Members-only commemmorative cards
    
    	o A personalized identifcation card with membership number
    
    	o Topps magazine subscription (a 1-year, 4-issue subscription).
    
    	o Opportunities to participate in MEMBER ONLY offers such as
    	  MERCHANDISE OFFERS, >>>>>> DIRECT SALES OF STADIUM CLUB CARDS
          AT SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE <<<<<< and many more exciting
          benefits throughout the year.
    
    -rjk

    
    Wasn't "suggested retail price" $1.29/pack?  I'll take a few boxes
    of series I baseball please.  I can currently get football for less,
    the hockey not quite, but close.
    
    jeff
    

    I thought the Baseball insert card said that memeberships were only
    good until something like Oct 31st?  I guess if you join thru the
    Hockey insert card it said Jan 31st?  From this message it sounds like
    there is just one club and the 50 cards are from all sports (BB, FB,
    and Hockey)?
    
    -jb

    Charter Memberships expired Oct 31st I thought... You can join and
    get the future stuff, right?
    

    
    Walt's got it exactly right.  CHARTER membership expired on 10/31/91.
    
    Anyone can still join through 1/31/92 -- you just won't get the
    initial 50-card charter member card set, or the nolan ryan bronze
    medallion (and keychain?).
    
    SRP is/was $1.25 or $45 a box Jeff.
    
    -rjk

    re: -1 
    
    ya, i read .172 wrong!
    
    -jb

    I have a question reguarding membership. On my card it say's that the
    membership is vaid thru 12/91, dose that mean we have to renew the
    membership? or will Topps send something out to that effect.
    
    Miguel ( Member since 6/91 )

    
    
    	When I received my membership card, I also noticed the valid thru
    	date, and since I joined back in June, I thought I was being
    	cheated out of half a year subscription, so I wrote them a letter
    	saying just that, and asking them if I would have to renew again   
    	this year.  You know what... ?.  They never answered my question. 

    Has anyone rec'd their plaque,I am still waiting for mine,and my
    childrens.So far I have only rec'd  1 card like a credit card,and
    2 boxes of the cards.This has to be the best investment for 10 wrapprs 
    and $19.95.
    
    John M.
    

    I've got my plaque...

    
    	John, I think when he said plaque, he was probably referring to
    	the Nolan Ryan medallion, it's so big and  heavy that you could
    	easily call it a plaque.  I got my Nolan Ryan medallion in  the
    	mail yesterday, and it looks like they mail them to the different
    	zip codes in some kind of order, either ascending or descending,
    	judging by what other noters had said about when they got it.

    I just recieved my 3 Nolan Ryan Bronze cards,I called up last week
    and they told me that New Hampshire was mailed out 2 weeks ago I
    guess that they mail by zip codes.
    John
    

    
    What does the credit card look like? 
    I recieved my Nolan Bronze card, but
    not my credit card. What does the card
    purchase? Has anybody recieved anymore
    magazines, I have recieved only one so
    far...just a wondering. Thanks
    
    Ted

    
    The credit card front has a black background with a reproduction
    of the ryan, griffey jr & jr ortiz stadium cards on it, along
    with your name, member since 1991 and member # in raised gold
    lettering.  So far topps hasn't let us know what specifically
    you can use the card for, although in the magazine I believe
    they mentioned you will be able to purchase "exclusive" merchandise
    available only to club members (which we hope includes cards @ SRP :-).
    
    I got my credit card long before the bronze ryan and key chain box
    showed up, fwiw.  John M, what number did you reach them at?
    
    jeff
    

     
    
    Yeah, I sure would like to have access to that 
    number so I can give them a call or two :>).
    

    
    Jeff,Noters,
    Here is the number to call if you have any questions,oh I almost
    forgot,you better have your membership number ready,thats the first
    thing that they will ask for and once you have them there pretty good
    to talk to.I talked to a girl by the name of Maryann Khrishanda if that
    will help you.
                                
                         Customer service 800-489-9149
    
    Good Luck
    
    

    FYI:  I sent mine in on the LAST possible date(10/31). I recieved my
    box-keychain-medallion last week and I recieved the cards 2 days ago.
    
    My membership # is in the 188,000's.
    
    Bill
    

    I called Topps (Stadium Club) this morning and I was told that all 
    the cards were mailed out 1-15-92,(nation wide),so if you don't
    get them within a week or two you better call the 800 number listed.
    
    John M.
    

      Does anyone know what the Charter Member sets are worth, unopened??
    Or what the single Charter Member cards are selling for?? I haven't
    seen very many.         Bill

    
     Thats not a bad deal $60.- $70. since we paid considerly  a lower
    price than that. I recieved my Card,roughly about 25 cards,and some
    info on how to renew my membership. Its one of those should I or 
    should'nt I? Are any of you folks gonna renew your membership? I 
    believe it runs about $30. some out bucks.
    
    			Ted 

    For all you Charte Members,here is the latest scopp on our Goodies.
    You will all be recieving 3 more sets of cards,thats right 3 more
    sets,the first set will be sent out the middle of March and the 
    2nd & 3rd sets will be mailed out the end of March. There will be 
    a new application in one of the packages,if you want to renew your
    membership it will be $29.95 or,send in 5 insert cards and a check 
    for $24.95. You will also have buying oppertunities through Topps.
    The first will be 1992 Topps stadium Club cards for $1.75 each,other
    deals will be mailed out when they are available.
    you will also recieve 1 issue of Topps Magaziene free,a new set of 
    Charter cards (50),and a new I.D. Card.
    
    The last three sets of cards for the 1991 membership will be,
    
                        1st. pkg.   10 cards
                        2nd. pkg.   20 cards
                        3rd. pkg.   20 cards
                    
                        all total   50 cards
                                                             
    Hope that this info satisfies you................ John M.
    
    
    
    
     
    
     

    
    Well, for those who are interested, last year's charter member
    package (medallion, keychain, 50-card charter member set, display
    "presentation" box) seems to have settled fown to the $50-60
    range for the entire package.
    
    Considering it originally cost $29.95 to join, those of you who
    missed out on the "charter" portion, can "catch up" for a just a
    little more than what it originally cost.
    
    -rjk

    Latest SCD had an ad for the 50 Card Charter Member set for 37$.
    Cheaper if you wanted to buy more than 10.
    
    John

    Does anyone know the specs. in the Orida giveaway? (address, # of
    POP's).  I'll buy the tater tots but the offer seems only to be on the
    huge bags of french fries.
    
    
    picky,picky,picky
    Bill
    

    you've got to have the form for the give-away, reproductions
    are not accepted. You need three POP's as well.
    
    Try the hashbrowns, they are superb.
    
    

    
    to quote from Topps Magazine:
    
    'Consumers must send in three proofs of purchase from any Ore-Ida
     frozen potato product accompanied by a completed official certificate.
     Consumers can submit as many requests as they wish.  Certificates are
     available only in specially marked packages of Ore-Ida products.  Send
     certificates and proofs of purchase to:
    
    	Ore-Ida Baseball Card Offer
    	P.O. Box 8712
    	Young America, MN 55551-8712
    
    Offer good until Oct 31, 1992 or while supplies last.