Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    Did someone post the address to get the free NBA Hoops Piston card?
    If so please point me to the note.
    
    Thanks,
    John

    To get 353B Pistons Card call....
    
    1-800-NBA-1235
    
    GG

    Thanks,
    
    John

    What is the difference between 353 and 353B?  Also, what would you
    expect to pay for a complete 2nd series (301-353?)?
    

    The main difference is the back of 353B does not have a picture of the
    entire team on it.  This is just what I've heard, not to be taken as
    pure fact. 
    As far as prices for the 2nd set, $50 is a good buy.  That is with
    353A!  Subtract about $25-$30 if you want a 353B set.
    
    GG

    Thanks, Glenn, but are you serious? $50 for 53 cards? Or are you
    talking all 353 cards?

    NOPE, No Joke!
    
    The first David Robinson was released in the first 90,000 cases
    and the second Robinson was in 45,000 cases.  The Hoops company
    announced that the first Robinson is the short print.  But how 
    can something be short printed in 2/3 of the cases?  Therefore,
    I summize that there are less of the second series Robinsons.
    Dealers already know this, they are always the first to know.  :*(
    I'm sure that you already know about the Pistons card situation,
    one out of every 75 or more packs.  That means about 10 per case,
    right?  WRONG!!!!!!  I have opened/help_open about 15 cases and the
    most I have seen out of a single case is 4 whole Pistons cards.
    Now call it bad luck or whatever, the #353 is not an easy card to 
    get from packs. 
    Now to make a short story, long.  The Pistons will go for about
    $25-$35 and the Robinson will go for about $15-$20, plus all the
    other cards and it runs up to about $50 for the 300-353 set!
    
    My thought, yours are more than welcome.
    GG

    John,
    
    That's not quite the way it works.
    They printed the Pistons card on a separte sheet along with a 
    Robinsons sheet and did *NOT* print as many of these sheets.
    That is the idea behind SHORT PRINT/SINGLE PRINT.
    So, even if there is 200,000 of these cards, that number over
    the entire country is very nominal!!!!  
    It's not a price gouge or card hype.
    
    One thing, however, it is not a player card, so I don't know what
    the long term will be of the card.
    
    GG

    �  Hmmm, short printing cards on purpose. Sounds like they did
    �  it on purpose in order  to  sell their product. 
    
    Short print or no short print, wouldn't you want to sell 
    your product.  Even if they did short print this card, it has
    happened before and it will happen again.
    
    
    
    � Like I said though, where did you get this information on 
    � case #'s and also where they were short printing cards ?  
    
    At shows and from newsletters and from a rather talkative
    dealer that I know.  Plus, take a look at the basketball
    Becketts and the cards marked SP, are the Short Prints.
    
    
    � I thought that companies usually don't release that information. 
    
    They don't like to but they always do.
    
    
    � The things I read were 53 cards from the original 300 were 
    � pulled and replaced or no longer printed in order to make room 
    � for the 53 card update.  They also said the Pistons card wasn't  
    � supposed to be numbered either.
    
    All true.
    
    
    Hope this answers some questions/concerns!
    GG

	If this "Detroit Pistons" card is so scarce/rare (1 in every 75 packs,
or whatever ?), then why everytime I go to a show some dealers have a stack of
'em 10 deep ?  Anybody else out there notice/question this ?

					Tony
    

    re -1 
    
    I saw this at the NAshua show and thought the same thing. Also why
    "only" $25 - $30 for the card?
    
    John

    The main reason why they have so many, ie: 10-20 deep, is
    because dealers find out about things before the general 
    public does, on the average.  They can also speculate and
    trade the persons who come to the tables for them, even
    before the general public is aware of what they are.
    
    The reason they can do all of this is because of a national
    database/bilboard for card dealers called "Sportsnet".
    It's a real nice tool, if you have ever seen it in action.
    The dealers can buy and sell from others at a small profit,
    beacuse it is more like a brotherhood type of thing.
    This notesfile could be used in the same manner, but none of
    us are real serious, (read: main source of income), dealers.
    
    If you get a chance, check out Sportsnet!
    
    GG

    �Isn't that where the two dealers tried to
    �corner the market on the Donruss Rookies last year ?  
    Possibly, they try to do what they what they want, it is in
    fact thier market.
    
    
    
    �Also at the beginning of the year when the  Donruss Ryan errors 
    �were so high, I heard a dealer say that 'so and so' was offering 
    �25$ for a Ryan error on Sportsnet and that's why it was so high 
    �in the beginning.
    �I hope that guy ate it bigtime if he paid 25$ for them back then.
    This is the big flaw of Sportsnet.  The dealers are creating a 
    'false' market.  The prices on there are only based off of dealer,
    read: poor, speculation, not what the public is willing to pay.
    There is a shop here in Colorado Springs, that is outrageously
    priced.  Example is the '90 Score Baseball "BO", the one with the
    bat and shoulder pads, is priced at $9.50!!!  Noticed I said "priced".
    And they sell just enough to keep the price there.  I have grown to
    hate this store.  The people who run it are real good friends, but
    when it comes to cards it's a different story.  
    This all stems from the NET, IMO!!!!!!!
    I would love to sell my "BO's" for $9.50, but my conscience would 
    get the best of me.  :*)
    
    
    
    �I like your  comment  about  'trading with the public before they
    �know about it'.  Does that  translate  to  'pulling a fast one on
    �them' ?
    Yes and No.  
    If the customer is willing to part for said price then it's a good
    deal.  But taking "kids" to the cleaners is another question!  
    Regarding the "BO's", above, I witnessed a kid sell above card to
    my dealer friends for 50�, needless to say I had a cow!!!!  Hell,
    I would have given him a $1.    :*)
    
    GG

	As far as this being like "Sports-net" (sounds like somethin that fruity
card dealers wear on their legs), I consider OUR conference a place where we can
strategize "against" the dealers.  We (COLLECTORS) can help one another by shar-
ing our collecting knowledge, and protect each other from getting ripped-off.  I
bet they don't talk about ways to help out collectors or provide better, more 
courteous service in "Sports-net" ???  The only thing they're "serious" about is
makin the almighty buck.  Don't waste your time sticking up for dealers in here.

	Personally ... I hate card dealers.  Most of them I've dealt with over 
the past 9 years are extremely unqualified and arrogant as hell.  They've got 
the personality of "lint".  And, did you ever hear a dealer talk positively a-
bout another dealer ?  These people have got to be the worse back-stabbers in 
the world !!!  

	I think all card dealers (full and part time) should be forced to attend
some type of public relations course and be licensed by some national organiza-
tion.  Any collector receiving "bad" service, could send a complaint to this or-
ganization.  With enough complaints, the dealer looses his license.  A dealer 
would not be allowed to set up at a show (or anywhere) without a license.  That
would put an end to their bullsh*t !

	Getting back to "Sports-net" ... I wish I could log in there and give 
the dealers in this country a little piece of my mind.  They'd be givin Mantle 
cards away once I got done with 'em.  Enough said ... I'm ruining my new "nice
guy" image 8^) !!!

					Tony
    

    Re. .20
    
    I'm not a dealer, but I have met a few who hate the new card mania as
    much as anyone. I go shopping for 60s KC A's commons and get great
    service and respect even though the cards are only $.40 each. I don't
    make these guys rich. What I have found is that there are some dealers
    who still have an appreciation and respect for the cards, the hobby and
    why people collect. When I ask about supposedly "scarce" cards I'm
    told, "Nothing new is scarce." 
    
    My kids go to school and get the news that the Bo score Nike football 
    bat card is worth $10.00. So I take 'em down to the corner candy store 
    and buy 4 packs of '90 Score Baseball cards for a grand total of $2.00 
    and get 2 Bo Score Nike Football bat cards, plus a whole bunch of others. 
    My kids love having $10.00 cards even if they are only worth $.50. Will 
    they spend $10.00?..No. Will they sell them for $10.00?.. No. 
    
    
    Will there be more '87 Fleer Clarks? maybe Do you buy them when they're
    $10.00 each? No. When do you stock up? When they are still .20 each.
    
    So what's my point?
    
    There are dealers and shop owners who aren't crooks. But, hey, this is
    a commodity market and commodity markets run on rummor and speculation.
    Including the rumors like the "SportsNet" conspiricy.
    
    And there is a difference between worth and price. Sometimes my worth
    will match your price, sometimes it won't.
    
    NT 

    re .20 and .22
    re note 1
    "The original desire for this notes file was for a common place to
     discuss baseball..."
    The 89 Pistons were "BAD" the 90 Pistons are "BETTER".
    The 89 Tony was "BAD" the 90 Tony is worse.  
    

    	Spoken like a true "big time" card dealer !
    
    				Tony 8^)

    	... your checks in the mail John 8^) !!!
    
    				Tony

    I share alot of the same feelings about what Tony and John
    have both stated in the last few replys.  As far as dealers,
    like I said a few back, I have some good freinds that own a 
    shop here in town, and when they are out of the shop they have
    a collectors approach to sports cards, but in the store is 
    another thing.  They seem to really care about what goes on in
    the card biz, but when the all mighty dollar is in front of there
    face, their eyes roll back in their heads, claws and fangs appear.
    I don't know, I guess we can all be tha way sometimes.
    
    Big question, is this about cards or money?
    
    GG

	Its about principle.  I think collectors need a "sacred" forum for them-
selves.  As far as I'm concerned, if alot of dealers started infiltrating our 
conference, I think it would be useless.  When I put "tips", etc in there, I'm 
doing it for collectors, not dealers.  I think it exists primarily for us col-
lectors.  I don't think Roy intended the conference to be like a "Sports-net" 
type of thing when he started it.  They've got their thing, and we've got ours.
He did it to help collectors (and to finish his 1970 set 8^).  Maybe its time 
for a little conference charter update Roy ... whatta ya say ?

	How about a contest ?  We can submit our "proposed" Sports_Memorabilia
charter updates to Roy, and he can pick one for a new conference charter.  Or, 
maybe we can list 'em in a note and vote on 'em.  Anyway, I think its time our 
moderator took a stand.

					Tony
    

    Tony, are you proposing that people who "deal" cards to other noters
    should be banned from the conference?  What a shame. I'm really going
    to miss reading the Danieleisms.  Come to think of it, I wouldn't be
    there to read them anyway, because I'd be banned too.  As would most of
    the others!
    
    Rick "I'm not a dealer" Jacunski

    John, how am I going to get a rise out of Tony if you insist on being
    so reasonable? BTW, are there any Hoops cards for sale in variety
    stores, etc. out there?  The last I saw outside of a card dealer's shop
    or a show were back in December.

	No Rick ... you gotta read between the lines.  John just said it best.  

					Tony


ps. You're strictly small "pa-day-does" anyway 8^).  
    

	Thats right !  People assume they are getting a good deal in here ...
and they should !  I've been selling "stuff" in here for along time and I
never sell above book (or rarely even at book !).  If I can't give somebody a 
deal in here, it doesn't get posted here.  Thats the way it should be.  None 
of this "get whatever you can get" shit.  Thats the crooked dealers mentality.

					Tony
    

    I agree with .34 and .35 but I wonder if anybody is actually buying the
    stuff that's being advertised in here at book, above-book, or
    "latest-fad-frenzy" prices. Maybe in here our use of "book" prices
    should only be in relationship to trading for equal value.    

    John
    
    The rumor I hear is that Nike is suing Score for printing the BO FB/BB
    card without permission.  That same picture is on a Nike poster so it
    sounds like copyright infringments.
    
    joe

    I saw the Factory Sets in Collector's Heaven in Manchester.  Has anyone
    purchased one and opened it?  Latest Beckett has the set at $30 and
    The Bo Ad card for $8.00.  If I had $8 to waste on a card I opt for a
    51 Bowman Red Sox card in ex+ condition.

    Factory hoops sets?  Or is the another discussion I didn't go back
    and read?
    

    	My son got the "free" Detroit Pistons card in the mail yesterday
    ... what a disappointment.
    
    					Tony

    Why the disappointment ?  It's free and the back is the same as the
    original.  Also I hear its a "short print" slightly less than
    10,000,000 printed. Bet at the next show you go to they will be going
    for $1.00 a piece.
    
    

    	Actually, my son was disappointed.  I thought they could come 
    up with something better than a "logo".
                                        
    					Tony

    I also received mine, and thought it was about the ugliest thing this
    side of Dennis Rodman.
    
    I agree, Hoops was playing a game the whole time trying to drum up
    sales, and it worked.
    
    I'm not sure if I agree with the whole idea. It did make it funner to open
    each pack hoping this one would be a winner.  But I think Hoops could
    have gotten the same effect had they just said up front "there is a
    short printed card, buy lots of our packs, and you could get the lucky
    card!"
    
    well, maybe next year they can think of something better when the 
    Pistons repeat. 

    Does anyone know what their getting for the Hoops #352 Championship
    Pistons Card and the extended check list?  Those are the ones you send
    or call away for.

    
    
       ref .52>    I believe should be 353
    

    Where does one buy hoops cards?? I haven't seen any anywhere??
    
    Help????

    I don't think the 90-91 sets are out yet... I've seen 89-90's
    still at most shows... kind of expensive though...
    
    -Walt

    Anyone seen a Hoops All-star set?  Not the all-star game subset
    but it looks like a subset of cards from the 89-90 hoops set.
    It's offered in the Sports catalog at Sears.  It would be
    real interesting if they had Robinson cards in it.  Has anyone
    else seen them out anywhere?