Conference rusure::nintendo

    
    	It looks like the price on these are going to be around $200
    
    
    
    	I'm just waiting to buy up all the used regular NES stuff.
    
    	_ed-

    
     Toys "R" Us in Auburn had about 50 tickets for the Super NES on
    Saturday. Price is $199.95 before tax. If you live near NH go there
    and don't help support welfare in this state. They had two games
    available at $49 each. Pricey, but it is new and 16 bit takes a
    little more work to produce a good quality game so it washes. If
    you are wanting this for a Xmas present for little ones they will
    stamp the back of your receipt for you and you can exchange w/in
    10 days if anything is wrong FYI. I would not wait on this one
    as I think it will be a hot item and I remember what it was like
    to find a NES at Xmas a few years back. Good Luck.
    
     Bill

    
    Anyone find any Super NES games recently... like yesterday.
    I have not been having any luck.
    
    Thanks.
    

    
    Does anyone have a list of the SNES games currently available...
    or are there still 3.
    
    Super Mario World
    and the two others (the racing game and ???)
    
    Any comments on the other games?

I saw Populus at Toys R Us today.  Actraiser is supposed to be released 
this month also.


			Gary

    I saw six Super Nintendo systems at Lechmere in Woburn Mall.  Software
    Etc. had one in the window at Burlington Mall, but I did not check how
    many more they had inside.        
    
    
    				-- edp

    I take it NES software does not run on SNES

    That's true - 8  bit nintendo does not run on the 16 bit super new.
    

    Was not the original NINTENDO not a 8-bit machine.
    Thought I read somewhere in here that it was 4 ?
    
    Rick A

    
    
     
    FLAME ON:
    
    Just thought I'd comment on the new 16 bit SNES. Not only will it not
    run any of the old games, but it is also incompatible with the
    "Advantage" joystick and any other peripherals from the old NES system.
    They added an X and Y button to the new controller and changed the
    jacks that the controller goes into. I hope they rot for their greed.
    Total incompatibility with "old systems" kills computer companies, it just
    might kill Nintendo as well. 
    
    Maybe if ATARI and SEGA got together and came up with a standard format
    for games that will be used for future game units (kind of like a UNIX
    for video games) they could blow Nintendo away. Probably won't happen
    though, you know, antitrust and all that. 
    
    FLAME OFF
    
    I wonder if Nintendo plans to stop selling software for the old
    Nintendo unit. Does anyone know? Are they going to keep coming up with
    new games for the old unit? I tend to doubt it, but it may improve my
    opinion of them if they do :-). 
    
    Steve B.
     

    re. -1
    
    Even after Atari released *their* super system (the 5200) back in 1982,
    they kept supporting the older VCS because of the large installed base
    of VCS owners.  Hopefully, Nintendo will do the same - I predict rocky
    times ahead for them if they don't.....
    
    						--Eric--

The cpu in the SNES has an 8-bit emulation mode.  In fact, many
of the first Super Famicon games in Japan were games that had
been developed for the 8-bit and simply had the switch to 8-bit
mode instruction added at the start of the game.  Then they 
released them in 16-bit carts as 16-bit Super Famicon games.
Hope none of those make it to the US for the SNES.

So why don't they have an adapter?  Word is they say they are
working to bring out the CD-ROM since they think it is wanted
more.  (I think they mean higher profit.)

Wonder how we can change their mind? 

Ray T.

    I may have missed it in the earlier notes, but what CPU does the 16bit
    machine use?

    I finally saw the machines at Wal-Mart here in Colorado Springs.  I was
    suprised at the size of the box (small).  Wal-Mart had it stuck on the
    shelves with the NES stuff, and it just looked like a new extension to
    the NES rather than a whole new machine.

    Later...
        Mike

    Didn't Atari make an adaptor so that the 2600 games would run on the
    5200 game unit?

re: -.1

I don't think Atari ever made an adapter for the 2600 carts for the 5200.
At least I never saw one and I would've scarfed one had I seen it.

t

    Re .11:
    
    Nintendo added four buttons, not just two, to the new controllers. 
    There are left and right buttons on top of the new controllers.  I
    doubt both the new buttons and the old interface could have been
    supported.  Compatibility comes at a price; the price in this case
    might have been less function in the controllers and/or higher prices.
    
    As I have said several times before, I do not see what the complaints
    are about.  There IS an adapter available to run Nintendo games even if
    you have a Super Nintendo Entertainment System.  The adapter costs
    about eighty dollars, most NES owners already have one, and the adapter
    is called a "Nintendo Entertainment System".  That's right, if you own
    an NES, it will CONTINUE TO WORK even if you buy a Super Nintendo
    Entertainment System.  Why do you need a separate adapter?
    
    The NES is cheap; it is not like a computer system where you NEED to
    run both old and new programs on the same machine at the same time.
    The reasons that make compatibility desirable on bigger computer
    systems do not apply to video games.
    
    
    				-- edp

    
    re .18
    
    The problem with incompatibility is that if they had just changed the
    base unit and made it compatible with the old cartridges, then people
    who had spent hundreds of dollars on the old games could use the new
    system AND have a huge collection of games to get started. Also, it is
    unlikely that Nintendo will use much energy to make any NEW games for
    the old system, thus effectively making the old system obsolete. VCR's
    have a standard format (VHS), computers have a couple of standard
    formats (floppy discs, 3.5 inch discs, CD-ROM etc) that can be used on
    several systems. Isn't it time for the video game manufacturers to do
    the same? That would really open up the market for video games.
    Apparently that is NOT what Nintendo wants. Nintendo probably doesn't make 
    all that much money on the systems themselves, they probably make MOST of 
    their money on the games.   
    
    Steve B.
    

    flame on  (This note attacks non-computer-literate people.  Hit KP3 to
    skip it.)
    
    
    I guess I'm amazed at the lack of technical understanding that
    accompanies gamers.  (But what do you expect from a group that routinely
    calls hard plastic cartridges with no moving parts "tapes?")  This *is*
    a computer company, right?
    
    Look, edp makes a great point.  If you have "hundreds of dollars of old
    games" for the original NES, you probably have one of those as well,
    right?  Why would you bother buying an adapter if you already have a
    box you can play the games on?  Do you think that the old games are
    going to have better resolution, stereo sound, faster graphics just
    because they run on the 16 bit box?
    
    Now I *do* think there is something technical about all of this that
    some folks are missing.  JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN PLUG SOMETHING IN DOESN'T
    MEAN IT'LL WORK!  The VCR standard format is fine -- until you try to
    play your first S-VHS tape on a standard VHS deck (Or Hi-8 on standard
    8mm.)  And the 'couple of standard formats' for PCs -- does anyone
    actually believe that the same program can be run on different machines
    just because the *disk* fits? 
    
    There has been some discussion about how nice it would be to have any
    game running on any system, and it seems like some folks believe that
    all it'll take is some work on cartridge size or magical electronic
    adapters of some sort.  Folks, we're talking about computers here, and
    software which pushes (hopefully, at least) the limits of the hardware. 
    It is an axiom of computing that any programmable machine should be
    able to emulate any other programmable machine.  It is entirely crazy
    to believe that the emulation would run at acceptable speeds.
    
    There will surely be new games for 'plain old NES' just as there are
    still blades available to fit safety razors.  There will probably even
    be some exciting new game development because the market is so huge.  I
    think what we're seeing is a layering of the marketplace.  As Lexus
    came in to challenge Mercedes, so is there room for competition at the
    high end of the game market.  But people still buy lots and lots of
    Chevy's, and you can still get seatcovers for all of 'em.

    Since Nintendo has not allowed anyone to produce games without their
    approval, I don't see anyone in the near future picking up the slack
    producing 8 bit games when Nintendo starts concentrating on 16 bit
    games.  Nintendo only makes limited production runs of the 8 bit games
    as it is.  I wouldn't be in the least surprised to see them totally
    concentrating on the 16 bit market.
    
    edp makes a good point about most folks in here already have an 8 bit
    NES.  Compatability shouldn't be an issue for these folks.  But many
    people will be buying 16 bit machines without ever owning a NES.  16
    bit game availability will be very limited at the beginning.  There are
    many good 8 bit games available.  Why not make them playable on the 16
    bit system?  Perhaps Nintendo will rewrite their old software at some
    point and introduce a line of NES classics for play on the 16 bit
    system.
    
    The logic used in .20 is driving many computer companies into
    bankruptcy.  Open systems seems to be the watchwords of the future. 
    DEC has even realized this and is involved in an OSS consortium and has
    even embraced UNIX.

    re -.1  Could you be a little more specific about the logic I used
    which is driving computer companies into bankruptcy?  Are you assuming
    that a piece of software written for one UNIX system will run on any
    other?  What a bill of goods *that* is...
    
    My friends, when commodities are the rule, price is king.  And when
    price is the sole determining factor, DEC, with the overhead it takes
    to build 'quality' into its products, will close its doors.  The key to
    survival in this business it *differentiation*.  I am not defending
    Nintendo's position, nor am I even claiming that they have done a good
    job here.  But pleeeeeeeeeeeeeze, let's not fly the flag of 'openness'
    as a way for survival.
    
    And what makes anyone believe that Nintendo will start concentrating on
    16 bit games?  Sure, they need a pallette large enough for folks to buy
    the SNES, but they make money on virtually every game sold -- why
    would they possibly abandon their installed base?  It would be stupid
    for Nintendo not to continue to sell the original NES -- just like GM
    sells Chevy and Cadillac.

    The consumer is clamoring for compatibility.  Witness the boom and the
    amount of money being made in the networking area.  The consumer is
    tired of having machines rendered obsolete in a short time.
    
�    And what makes anyone believe that Nintendo will start concentrating on
�    16 bit games?  
    
    I didn't see Atari cranking out a slew of 2600 games after introducing
    the 5200.  How many games are being made for the old Sega system now
    that they have a 16 bit machine?  Nintendo's widely acclaimed Baseball
    Stars is no longer in production.  Neither is Arkanoid.  The
    availability of 16 bit games is going to drive down the profit margins
    on the 8 bit games.  It's happening already.  Also look at what
    happened to LP prices when CDs hit the shelves.  If you can make more
    money on a 16 bit game vs an 8 bit game, why make the 8 bit game? 
    Customer loyalty?  Nintendo hasn't shown any yet.

    
    
    
    	Why all of a sudden, is everyone so worried about Nintendo
    	not producing games for the 8-bit NES??? Just because they 
    	now have a new machine out to compete with the other 16-bit
    	consoles out there doesn't mean the 8-bit is dead!
    
    	If you look at any of the gaming mags out there including 
    	Nintendo's own Nintendo Power, you will see there are tons
    	of new 8-bit games comming out between now and xmas
    
    	The mag, GamePro (soon to have its own tv video show)listed
    	over 40 new games comming for the 8-bit NES!
    
    
    	Nintendo Power lists these games as "soon to be released"
    
    	Games like The Flinstones,Adams Family,StarWars,Die Hard,Pirates
    	Smash Tv,Barbie,Home Alone,Hudson Hawk,Star Trek,Tiny Toons,Uforia
    	Where's Waldo,Wolverine,WURM,Kick Master,Bio Force Ape,Nightshade.
    
    	So whats the problem??  I just listed 20 games, does it look
    	like the 8-bit is dead?  
    
    	I wouldn't worry about Nintendo forgetting about the 8-bit
    	home base it has, after all if it wasn't for the 8-bit the big "N"
    	wouldn't be where it is today.	 
    
    	You got a 8-bit NES why would you need an adaptor
    
    
    	No Sega didn't forget about the Master System users, there are some
    	great games for that as well, Strider,Mickey Mouse,Golden Axe
    	Dick Tracy,Gouls and Ghost,Moonwalker,Shinobi, Paper Boy,Psycho Fox
    	Super Monaco GP.
    
    	Allmost all these games were 16-bit when they started out and then
    	Sega poted them over to 8-bit to help revieve the Master system
    
    	Wayne

    
    I think we are forgetting one minor insignificant itty bitty little
    detail.  Nintendo like any other company that produces goods to market
    will first test the market and budget its future productions
    accordingly.  If you guys really want to see more 8 bit cartridges,
    then don't buy the Super NES system so you won't even have to think of
    spending money on the 16 bit cartridges.  On the other hand, if you
    believe that the new model is indeed so much superior to the old NES
    system and is worth the money, keep voting for the new Super NES and
    sure enough, Nintendo will comply willingly.  Makes sense no?
    
    
    							Justin

Well, I'll add another perspective to this argument....

Our NES system is 6 years old and having problems. After finding it would cost
me $50 plus shipping to get it repaired, or roughly $80 to get a new one, I
decided to wait to see what they would do with the new one.  Well, at $200, it's
pretty pricey, especially with so few games at the moment (at outrageous
prices).

My kids have close to 60 8-bit NES cartridges, most of which still get
played at some point in time during the year, and some which get played
very regularly.  Except for birthdays, etc, the kids had to earn the money
for these cartridges, buy them used (several through this notes file), on
sale, etc.  They payed for close to 2/3's of all the games we have.

And the worst of the descision process is the Advertising Campaigns aimed
at  getting the kids to go for the new SNES.  It makes them want the new
stuff, without telling them that their old stuff won't work on it.  I know
the Ads don't say it will, but to the kids, Nintendo is NINTENDO, and
they just assumed that the new machine would let them run their old games,
plus the new ones.  I have had a hard time convincing them otherwise and
they are very disappointed and upset.


If Nintendo does not come out with an adapter, then my kids are being
given the choice of

	1.  Sell off all their games, proceeds of which go towards the
	    purchase of SNES.

	2.  We'll repair the old unit, and no SNES.

If Nintendo does come out with an adapter, then we will make them sell
off the least used games, proceeds going towards the new unit, since it
is so expensive.

My compatability adaptor is broken and I don't want to pay for a
new obsolete model....

Alice

Look in the want advertiser.  Used systems tend to go for about $50
with no games, with the new NES prices dropping and SNES out there you can
probably get one for even less.

Neal

     
    re .20  This note doesn't attack anyone - it's just a bunch of 
            passive letters.  ;-).
    
    First, people branded the ROM catridges "tapes" like a nickname, I
    don't think that people actually sat there and said "Wow, I wonder if I 
    can play this on my reel to reel...".  Now that they are going to CD's 
    I guess we can all just call them CD's.
    
    I think that your response (as well as edp's) doesn't take a broad
    enough outlook at the problem that we are discussing.  I own the NES so I
    really don't have to complain about creating an adapter...but..
    I think that anyone who thinks that the incompatibility of NES and SNES 
    is "O.K." is not consumer friendly (and remember your the consumer).
    
    Hey all that having no adapter does for me is clutter up the entertainment
    center and add to the clump of cables behind it, plus my NES isn't going 
    to last for ever and I would like to be able to scrap it and buy an
    adapter.
    
    We also forget that Nintendo's leading competitor created an adapter
    from 8bit the 16bit (SEGA) and they didn't seem to have any gobledee gook 
    frequency modulation parameter problems...:-)).
    
    IMHO I think that NES WILL create an adapter.  I just think that they
    want some up front 16bit game sales or something like that.
    
    Ron.

I for one don't have room for 2 NES boxes, 4 controllers, 2 joysticks, 
extra cables, etc., etc. My kids have 40+ NES carts, and of course 
they want the SNES since they want Super Mario Land. I absolutely 
refuse to buy one of these unless it'll use the 8 bit games... my wife 
is so mad at Nintendo that she doesn't even want to buy any more 8 bit 
games. 

Nintendo said they didn't include compatability mode 'cause it would 
have increased the price of the SNES by $50. That would have been 
worth it to me - I could have sold the old NES for $50, broke even, 
and only have to worry about where to put one game system.

I think Nintendo did not include compat mode for 2 reasons:

1) Greed - they want folks to buy the SNES, then buy new versions of 
   all the old games that will be re-released in 16 bit 

2) Greed - new games will be released for both 16 bit and 8 bit 
   systems. If they had compat mode, there would be no market left to
   sell the old 8 bit NES anymore. They want people to buy and have
   both systems.

I hope no-one buys the SNES until Nintendo realizes that not everyone 
enjoys being ripped off.

I think -.1 is onto why we don't have an adapter. Greed.  People with
8 bit NES will sell their system and most of the games to get money
for 16 bit SNES.  That would destroy the 8 bit market for systems and
games.  This is exactly why I need an adapter.  My son has already sold
his 8 bit system to get money for 16 bit games.

In answer to the question a while back about what chip -
	NES 8 bit uses 6502
	SNES 16 bit uses 65816 

Ray T.

    I just bought a new NES game. At $50+ per game I might have to 
    wait for the SNES games I want.  Up to now I just have SMW and F-Zero.
    
    Having two game decks with controllers is a mess but is cheaper than
    getting an adaptor that might or might not work on all games.  One of
    the main reasons I got a SNES deck is Nintendo's marketing.  I still
    have a very good Beta tape player.  Nintendo will make it work no
    matter how dirty they have to play.  
    
    Keeping the old deck and finding discount games lets me get a good
    selection at a resonable price.  When there is something I really want
    for the 16 bitter, I will buy more games for it.  
    
    

    
    JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN PLUG SOMETHING IN DOESN'T
    MEAN IT'LL WORK!  The VCR standard format is fine -- until you try to
    play your first S-VHS tape on a standard VHS deck (Or Hi-8 on standard
    8mm.)  And the 'couple of standard formats' for PCs -- does anyone
    actually believe that the same program can be run on different machines
    just because the *disk* fits? 

	Re: S-VHS vs. VHS (.20)

	But my S-VHS deck can play all of my old VHS tapes thus
	preserving my investment in VHS software. I bought
	my S-VHS deck well after my VHS deck.

	I'll be damned if I'm going to allow my kids to throw their
	significant investment in NES software down the tubes.

	Ken

    
    I haven't had a chance to try the new Nintendo, but, for a fee ( I
    think it's 1$ for 15 minutes)  The Music Forum in Gardner allows people
    to play it.   They setup the machine inside a video game box.
    
    I heard that they also rent the new systems.  
    
    time for a taste test.....
    
    Ron.

    Does the new snes deck have the same mechanism for the cartridges? The
    old NES systems are designed to fail so that you will get them fixed
    every couple of years.
    
    Frank

>                      <<< Note 659.34 by CTOAVX::CHASE >>>
>                          -< mechanics are the pits >->>>>
>
>   Does the new snes deck have the same mechanism for the cartridges? The
>    old NES systems are designed to fail so that you will get them fixed
>    every couple of years.
    
    
    
    I don't know if the new system is better but it is different.  The SNES
    loads from the top (doesn't work on the VCR shelf), just press the game
    in firmly.  It has an interlock so the game can not be removed with the
    power on and an eject button.  If the plug stays clean this should
    allow more positive contact.  Time will tell if it can handle postive
    kids.
    
    Roger

    I have a friend who just bought the 16 bit system and it doesn't work
    with his large screen Magnivox TV.  He called into Nintendo and they
    are aware of the problem but have not provided a fix in 4 weeks.
    
    				buyer beware!

	... or a new Nintendo, but the phrase "doesn't work" is a bit
broad, and tweaks my curiosity! :>)

	Is the picture out of H or V sync?  Are the connections incompatible?
Sound messed up?

	Inquiring minds want to know!  :>)

    As it turns out they were really super in the way they handled it.  It
    was an old Magnivox rear projection,  The sent someone to pick it up
    and returned it fixed for free, about ten days later. I'm impressed.
    I believe the problem was with the horizonal sync.  

    	I'm looking for an update on prices for these new Super Nintendo
    systems.  Christmas is approaching and I want to pick one up before
    they all sell out.
    	I priced one last night at K-Mart in Fitchburg, MA for $189.00.
    
    	Anybody have any other prices and locations?  Especially NH?

    Re: .39
    
    I seriously doubt you'll find much price movement on the SNES,
    especially as we approach the Christmas countdown. The regular NES
    (w/light gun) was priced at $99 for as long back as I can remember; I
    don't ever recall seeing it on sale until the SNES came out, and even
    then, I only saw a $5-$10 price break.
    
    IMHO, if you want one for Christmas, and can find a place that has them
    in stock for $189, grab it. (or buy it in NH, to save the $9.45 sales
    tax). Also keep in mind that if you find one cheaper than $189 between
    now and Christmas, you can pick that one up and return the one you
    bought for $189.
    
    Just my $.02
    
    Freddie

    On the second level of the Mall at Rockingham there is an electronics
    store that has SNES on sale for $159.00. I almost bought it..backed
    off.
    
    Toys R Us in Manchester has NES system for $88. Also has the Game
    Genie for $49. It's $59 at kaybee in the Mall of NH.
    
    Ken

     
    Ken,
    
    What store? We bought one thru the JC Penney Catalog store for 
    199.00 (ouch)
    
    Tim

    
    	I just bought my daughter SNES for X-Mas from Service Merchandise for
    $179.  But I've never seen it for $159!
    
    	I also bought her a game called Fantasy ? - which went around $65. 
    It looks like a good game though.
    
    	I don't quite understand though, why are people selling off their
    NES systems?  I think a lot of the games are great and, naturally, our
    SNES library won't contain much for some time.
    
    
    
    

    
    
    
    
    Hello Nintendo Fans:
    
    I need to know the diference between the Super Nintendo and the
    original nintendo. I also need to know how the super nintendo
    cost.
    
    Thank you 
    Jackey

    You'll probably have better luck asking in YUPPY::SUPER_FAMICOM. 
    That's the conference for discussing the Super NES.