Conference rusure::nintendo

    Well, in some sense, I practically live on the net these days -- I get
    my news through it, I am in contact with people around the world on
    subjects of common interest, et cetera.  It seems to me that electronic
    communication is the way of the future.
    
    But that doesn't answer question 1 -- can we make it successful?  I
    would say it _could_ be successful if we do the right things.  The
    future is definitely there.
    
    What could we offer?  Actually, I would ask what _must_ we offer.  I
    saw a videotext service once; it was pretty lame.  If we do offer news,
    make it real, not pap.  Currently on Usenet, Brad Templeton has secured
    a contract with UPI to transmit their news.  We would want something at
    least as good -- a full range of national news and features that the
    user can select from (not wait for!).
    
    Also, we must offer interesting things.  If we set up things similar to
    Notes conferences, I would suggest we seed them with writings from
    popular conferences on our network today -- maybe even invite employees
    to participate, so that customers come in to an exciting interchange
    already in progress.
    
    There's some difficult news here too.  This could take us into areas
    with which Digital will not be comfortable.  Prodigy has shut down
    flame wars on AIDS and homosexuality, and it has censored users who
    were complaining about price increases.  Also, I think the Wall Street
    Journal pointed out that new forms of communication have been supported
    by sexually explicit material -- people want it, people will pay for
    it, it has, historically, forged the way for acceptance of new media.
    That could mean sexually-oriented discussions or sexually-oriented
    pictures.  Does Digital want to get into this?  If not, what happens
    when somebody else does start supplying such material on their forum,
    it becomes more popular, and Digital loses customers?
    
    If we offer services, like banking or bill-paying, there are several
    things we must do.  First, they must be REAL, not pap.  That is, it
    can't just be a nominal service but one that is not good enough that
    anybody wants to use it.  It should provide full function services and
    appear professional, not like a game.  On the other hand, the user
    interface must be easy to learn -- design psychologists must be
    involved from the beginning.
    
    I don't know what people would be willing to pay for rates.  $10 to $15
    per month would probably be fine for me.  I would compare to what
    Prodigy charges.
    
    
    				-- edp

    One service to offer, if Nintendo is not planning it already, is the
    ability to download games to a disk drive on the Nintendo, at a rate
    cheaper than buying a cartridge.  Get their money before they go to the
    stores!                           
    
    
    				-- edp

    
    1. Do it.
    
    2. I have no ideas for new creative services.  Well, I might but I
    wouldn't give them away free ;-).  I would suggest that whatever
    services offered be or lead to entertainment and preferably
    interactive.
    
    3. I'd pop for $10 a month.
    
    Steve

    RE: .1 and .2
    
    Thank you for your response.  We appreciate the great suggestions you
    made, and also will consider and attempt to deal with the issues you
    have surfaced.
    
    Please give this more thought and let us know anything else you think
    might help us to get something going here.
    
    RE: .3
    
    Thank you also for your responses.  We will factor your 1 & 3 answers
    into our decision making process.  We regret (but can empathize) with
    your response to #2.  I have been discouraged that I had to sign an
    "intellectual property employment agreement" when I joined Digital,
    because I know that some of the ideas I have contributed to the company
    (like this one) could be worth a lot of money.  However, the company
    has been good to me and to my brother (in engineering), and I don't
    think that any individual could implement something like this anyway. 
    It will take all of Digital's strengths and relationships with other
    large companies to interest Nintendo in a partnership of this nature. 
    But I am pretty confident that if we decide to proceed, we will be
    successful.
    
    Your ideas will be used to build the case to Nintendo that it is worth
    implementing this concept with Digital instead of IBM/PRODIGY.  Please
    rethink your initial response.  We need you.  
    
    

    I would like to add my $0.023 CDN ($0.02 US) on this matter.  I
    think that there is a lucrative market for network services via
    "NiNET" if the appropriate services are offered around a successful
    strategy.
    
    First, the success of the concept must be won through a program
    initially focused on children.  They are most likely to introduce
    such a radically new idea into the home.  Once the parents cave
    in to the children's demands, the other services can be brought
    to their attention and demonstrated by the little darlin's.
    
    I would start with downloadable games, but I would make sure each
    game had a built-in expiry timer that would render it inoperable
    after a fixed amount of time.  This could give children the motivation
    to develop some networking fundamentals.
    
    Next, get a NOTES-like conference service that's easy for the kids
    to share 'secret' game strategies and information.  I have taught
    my 11-year old to use NOTES to scan this conference and it is
    remarkable to see how intuitive and quick to learn these children
    of today are.
    
    Once into INFObase services, VTX, MAIL and other services can be
    provided, billed either through the single monthly service, or tariffed
    by usage.  It won't be long before "NiNET" is used by all members
    of the family.  The basics need to be built before the more
    sophisticated products can be launched.  IMHO, videotex services
    are too advanced to be served up right away.

    Hope this helps.

	I too think this has possibilities..  I currently haven't been
	able to convince the family of the neccesity of have a computer
	in the house (othe than the dumb terminal for hooking back to
	the office).  However, because we already have NEC system, and
	it is used by most of us (my 1 yr old still is having a learning
	curve problem :-) ), the ease of its use for children would be
	of great concern..  I don't mean that my 5 year old would have
	free rein/access, but he should be able to understand the system
	ie.. icons maybe...

	Also, this is a side note..  I'm assuming that NEC is coming out
	(if not already available) with a keyboard..  I don't see how a
	NOTES conference or any interactive communication could readily
	happen without one..

	Csw

    First of all, is this "box" going to include a keyboard?  If not then 
    there's no way I would use the Nintendo to enter a note or send a
    E-mail message.  Typing with the Nintendo controller is very tedious 
    (I've never liked the long passwords a la Metroid).

    In any case, I do not see this as a particularly appealing option for
    most Nintendo owners.  They might be interested in getting to a notes
    file like this one to exchange game related information, but Videotex,
    E-mail and those kinds of services are probably more appealing to PC
    owners who already have access to them.  For example, edp says in .1 
    "I practically live on the net these days."  But he is much more
    sophisticated computer user than the average Nintendo owner who is
    apparently the target market for this service.  The average owner would
    probably be uninterested or even intimidated by the concept of E-mail.
    And again the people really interested in these services probably
    already have access to them through PC's or other computers.

    I think there are parallels between this idea and the idea that you can
    use a PC to balance your checkbook.  It sounds good, but in practice
    the overhead and learning curve make it unfeasible for most people. 
    I'm sure there are thousands copies of "Personal Finance" programs that
    do nothing but take up disk space on home computers (personally,  the
    last thing I want a computer to do for me is to duplicate the paperwork
    I need to balance my checkbook, a calculator is enough help :-} ).

    It seems to me that the only way this would fly is if the user
    interface was so incredibly easy to use that there would be very little
    pain for a non-computer-literate person to get on and use the service
    (Again, a keyboard would be MANDATORY).  Even if that was true, I think
    it would still be a hard sell to most people who weren't already
    exposed to these services.

    Well, that's my two cents worth.

                                                     - Dave

    KISS is extremely relevant.  Try to avoid the DEC engineering penchant
    for over-engineering.
    
    Remember:  The whole point here is a backdoor approach to getting the
    household "hooked up".   If it gets expensive to start up, you've lost
    the market, and the backdoor gets closed.
    
    Don't design a be-all and end-all interface! Design an interface that
    will be useful to today's household Nintendo owners, with little or no
    startup cost.  You *have* to make your money on usage fees (without
    driving the customer away after a few months of access, but that's a
    different problem.)
    
    A keyboard should be strictly optional, for at least some very useful
    set of services.  (IE - loading games for try-outs needn't use anything
    but a list of titles, the up/down arrows, and a selection button.) 
    REQUIRING a keyboard will kill you, unless you give them away free.
    
    Making some neat new features available with an optional keyboard is
    probably reasonable.  As pointed out, for highly textual contexts like
    notes and email it makes sense to support more efficient input, but
    even there I'll bet that an interface for the non-keyboard owner is
    highly desirable.  
    
    - Chris

    There are a couple options currently available that could possibly be
    used in place of a keyboard.  The power glove and the other one is some
    sort of grid (?  I don't own and am not familiar with either).  I
    imagine something could be worked out.  Only makes sense if enough of
    these have been purchased.  Put the keyboard on the monitor and type
    away with a pair of power gloves - appeals to me.
    
    Steve

    Great ideas!
    
    Did anyone see the "futuristic" user interface devices we featured at
    DECworld in "The Office Of The Future" exhibit?  Some of these might
    offer potential for use with the Nintendo System and our networked
    services.
    
    If there is potential for this Nintendo/DECnet, we will definitely
    re-engineer VTX, Notes and other products to be easier to use and will
    design these services to be highly object oriented and requiring
    minimal keyboard (or other I/O device) interaction.
    
    The entries in this Notes conference will be used in part to build a
    case for pursuing this project.  We will be initiating formal market
    research, as well.  Your input is valued and will be used in our
    decision making.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    
                           

I would agree that keyboards be an option. Also it should 
use what is available as much as possible. That includes the
powerglove (tm) if someone wants to make it work for text entry.
Would it work like a Chord Keyboard (a one handed thing-a-ma-jig)?

I would also say keep the environment as much like the current things
as possible, (ie, familiar). This means move a pointer to select from
a menu, and using buttons to select different menus.

I vote for pay per use for services that normally charge, ie personal
mail. This could be charged monthly to a credit card registered with
the system. However here again make things as "normal" as possible, 
hence personal mail goes to people's names, not some arbitrary user
number. i know there are lots of John Simth's even in the same city,
but still that is the way we know them so include street if need be.

One kind of note file that might have wide appeal even for folks that 
have read only (ie, havent got a typing in device like a keyboard). 
That is notes on what the government is doing. suggestion, is that 
when the person wants to have access (at least write access), then 
his name is checked agains the voter registration list to make sure
that he/she is a real person. Then the personal name field carries
that person's name and city (or burough) so that people will feel 
accountable for what they are saying in what is truly a public forum.
The Senator/Congressman/etc would be invited to assign a person to 
be moderator of some of the conferences. Rules would have to be 
enforced (by removing the reply) Blatant violators could after warnings
have their write priveleges suspended for a period of time. 

It would be an environment that would allow our elected officials to 
have a much better feedback of what the people want. It would also
give them a good place to sya what they really believe, should they
actuall desire to do such a radical thing. (Content free diatribes 
would be quickly analysed by the public and branded for just what
they are).

I would also suggest that this be an environment for sending mail to 
the officials. It is much more likely that a letter be written if one
is able to be reviewing information on a subject, then when the urge
strikes, they merely need to start typing.

There could be standard mailing lists as well as personal ones. then 
people might figure out that a message mailed to all members of the
House is considered differently than one sent to your own representative
only.

This forum would also need access from normal computers (for those that
have grown quite used to 80 char/line) but I think it would not
detract from the marketing value of a serious program to allow us to
be in touch with our elected officials in a manner that most of the 
households of america could easily support (the nintendo thing).

Consider that the congressional record was a means to make the public
debate of the congress available to all, well anyone that could afford
the time and money to access such a prodigious document. Then C-Span
brought that to those that only have the time to listen to it all. This
notes file (plus perhaps on line access to things like congressional
record) could bring a realistic access to not only what the leaders are
saying but also to what our neighbors say about these subjects.

Thanks for your Nintendo/DEC idea, hope this might help.

Len

    
    	I agree a keyboard should be optional.  To get more people join
    	the service, which should be the first goal, you need to keep
    	two things in mind.  Cheep entry cost/investment and cheep service
    	fees.  The first can be accomplished by minimal extra hardware
    	needed, like rom/ram and modem package.  The service could be
    	set up to be mostly menue driven so the game controller that
    	comes with the Nintendo system is all you really need.  A keyboard
    	could be an option offered to make entering game notes easier.
     	To help defray the cost of connect time you could take the same
    	track as Prodigy does and get companies to advertise on or sponsor
    	services.  For example on Prodigy, Mobil has their logo displayed
    	in the upper right of the weather service.  Well that's just
    	my two cents.
    
    							Jim
      

    How about coin-op games by telephone?  Down load games that require
    charging for more lives just like at an arcade. Or as mentioned 
    before, a sort of video rental, where games have a built in timer.
    And how about - design your own game?  Write a generic game generator
    that can create a game based on responses to questions.  Even allow
    a person to send in a photo of themselves that can be scanned and used
    in the game, so that they are the main character!  Allow users to play
    each other over the net.  Have contests with the highest scores in
    certain age brackets getting prizes and their names mentioned.
    
    A very active Notes file moderator would help.  Not everybody is
    willing to wade through some of the convuluted answers and mis-
    answers in Notes and Prodigy.  Learn from the mistakes of Prodigy.
    
    I hope it flies!
    
    Ray T.   

    the real issue in my mind is can Digital be an effective player
    in the consumer marketing networking arena. People who play games
    need to be entertained, do notes, e-mail and vtx entertain people,
    don't know. I thought that Steve Wozniak was inventing a home
    entertainment unit that would also be an extension to the network.
    This may be the greater reason for the SONY and Apple discussions,
    multimedia as it applies to the home entertainment market.
    
    Until we have ISDN to the home and better hi-def video this won't
    happen in quantity. How does a color tv or NES game system handle
    the additional demands for video display, programming and selection.
    
    Digital could play a key role as a network services provider in
    helping Nintendo plan their network service. Thats where the initial
    investment needs to be made by our sales organization. The jury
    is still out if Trintex (IBM/Sears aka Prodigy) is successful. We
    know they have their fair share of moral majority and up tight types.

    Ed Jennings
    (Is the sage::murphy, mary murphy by any chance, if so hello from
    CT!)

    
    I was under the impression that Nintendo was already working on a 
    net with Masashita (sp?)........
    
    to my understanding their strategy is to link the NES to an inexpensive
    PC which is connected to the telephone.... I'll have to see if I can
    remember where I read this........
    
    
    re.� -.1
    
    just for the sake of keeping this proposed venture informed, ISDN, high
    definition television sets, and existing television sets adaptability
    to video display are moot points as far as being -major- obstacles. 
    
    Bri.

	I suspect that a keyboard is NOT a viable option.  A good keyboard
    costs more than the entire NES control deck and a bad keyboard is worse
    than useless.  Don't count on high resolution TV either.  Don't count on
    high baud rates.  The cost of the in home equipment should be kept as low 
    as possible and the reliability as high as possible.

	So what can you do without a keyboard?

	First, games.  Multi-person games.  The simplest would be chess.  But
    the games have to have a fairly good stand alone mode also.  
	Team games - buy a cart, get your friends to buy one, then call up and 
    battle it out with the kids from the other side of town or from the other 
    side of the world...
	Real high score data bases - So you think you're pretty good at SMB 9?
    Well, prove it.  Register your top score.  But it better be secure.  Some
    hacker breaking in and adding a couple zeros to the end of his otherwise
    ordinary score would ruin the whole thing.
	Game rental -  Buy a cart with a battery, RAM and a rental clock.  Then
    call up and rent The Adventures of Link VII for a week.  If you like it,
    rent it for another week.  If you are absolutely hooked, go out and buy the
    ROM cart.
	On-line games - where the game is played on the central system with 
    only a small part of the information getting to the home unit.  These 
    could be single player or multiplayer.

	Second, shopping.  You'd need to tie in with the home shopping networks,
    but a cart that would down load pictures of things you could buy and a
    menu to let you select what you want might make it a little easier to use
    than the current fare.  You would need to be able to get a Customer Service
    Rep on the phone and be able to talk to them as well as listen to what they
    have to say.  This may or may not be possible with the equipment Nintendo
    intends to sell.

	Tele-info.  Like 900 code service.  Complete with all the sleeze that
    goes with it.  Everything from dial-a-date to dial-a-joke to dial-a-prayer.
    Including pictures.  You'll have to put the equivilent of a warning label
    on a good deal of this stuff or end up with government censorship.  You'll
    probably want to throw in a few public service offerings like a clasified
    ads and local area public anouncements.

	There is a large number of options that combine all of the above.
    For example, you could have a dial-a-story service that allowed the caller
    select actions that changed the course of the tale.  The simpler offerings
    in this catagory would fit the tele-info model, but the more complex ones
    could get into the on-line game category.

Nintendo announced this product over a year ago.  The modem will have a
built-in keyboard.  The price hasn't been announced, but will probably
be under $100.  They have signed an agreement with AT&T to provide the
network, and Fidelity will provide financial services.  The initial
offering over the network will be games and financial services.  Note
512 is an article from the Wall Street Journal that mentions this.  My
info comes from someone who works for Nintendo.

    
    re: .17
    
    Hum...  If AT&T is providing the network, where does Digital's
    leverage come from?  Simular products like NOTES, VTX, and mail
    are used by AT&T already.
    
    re: .0
    
    Well on to answer these questions (and not repeat all of what the last 17
    have said).
    
    1) Marketing must look at this from at least 3 seperate angles, the NES
    user (families & most of all kids), Cable TV viewers (All NES owners
    have a TV, a large portion will also have Cable TV), and computer
    users (attract some of Prodigies marketshare).  These markets overlap
    greatly and provide a broadbase for differing kinds of services.
    
    As they stand VTX, NOTES, and EMAIL (including the All-In-One
    version) are beyond most common people, and therefor beyond the
    the largest portion of the target market.  The interface *MUST* be 
    as close to playing the games as possible.  Where the user just needs 
    to move a pointer and select options.  Charging for this service must 
    be kept very low to the end user (families).  Stratigies for capturing 
    other revenue from other sources must be thought out.  A system like 
    what MC and VISA use is a simple approach, but it works.  As another 
    noter pointed to, what would Digital's liability be if *open* notes got 
    out-of-hand (explicit sexual materal, racist material, ect...), would 
    Digital then be liable for what some groups would call "outrages", 
    "imoral", ect?  
    
    Bottom line - Yes, a set of services like this can be made profitable, 
    but how much would Digital, it's executives, and it's culture be at 
    risk (or enhanced) by this move to the consumer marketplace?
    
    2) Ignoring the keyboard for a moment.  Yes, I believe read only
    services for both news and home shopping can be profitable.  Some of the 
    income from home shoping can be derived from the seller ala VISA or MC.
    The downloading of games would be good (if technically sound, noone has
    said anything about "local" storage).
    
    With the keyboard (providing it is at least touch-typeable) NOTES and
    mail become useful.  Imagine sending mail to mom (or the kids) no
    matter where they are in the US in just a couple of minutes, or for
    a *small* fee a postcard from local nextday US mail (say maybe 30
    cents).  Being able to send mail to anyone (regardless if they own
    a NES or not) could be a profitable service, I'd use it.
    
    Getting local banks (whew! what a task) and major creditors to support
    bill paying is a must to get this service off the ground.
    
    Being able to get to the same "NiNET" (as someone else coined) from
    computers would also enhance the market for these services.  Using
    the NES TV interface should keep the speed of the I/O to a reasonable
    pace.  The phone lines are just to slow for a totally PC like graphical
    interface (Prodigy is painfully slow).
    
    3) A flat rate would be fine for a certain level of service.  Teared
    rates based on services rendered might be more attractive to the
    business types.  Having News, Shopping, Notes, and mail (ect...) for 
    a basic charge of $15 with unlimited access is probably the limit for 
    most homes.  Adding a small fee (say $2/mo for Dow Jones) for other
    services (all with unlimited access) will provide yet more revenue and
    provide a vehicle to enhance the system, test-market services, and
    give-aways for new subscribers (like cable TV).
    
    
    I believe you can make a case that the market exists and is ready to
    pay for a set of services, Digital would have to put up the big bucks
    to modify it's current products (and to create new ones) for the
    consumer marketplace.  Digital would also have to learn how to advertise 
    to the consumer market.
    
    ...gene