T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
1588.1 | | GUESS::DERAMO | Dan D'Eramo, zfc::deramo | Wed Apr 01 1992 09:11 | 3 |
| Ooooh looks like fun! Thank you for posting this.
Dan
|
1588.2 | I probably missed something, but... | GLENN::LYNN | Lynn Yarbrough @WNP DTN 427-5663 | Thu Apr 02 1992 17:03 | 41 |
| This is probably too succinct, since I spent a lot of effort compressing
cases and eliminating fruitless paths.
For the moment, call the actual colors by their frequency, i.e. 4444 333 22.
(1) Adam must be able to see 4444 to be able to draw an inference about two
of his own colors. (If he sees RRRBBG, for example, both GGG and RBG are
possible on his own head, so he can only infer one color.)
Now Adam sees distributed on Alex and Andy, either
(1A) 4444xy, and knows he has x,y,?
(1B) 4444xx, and knows he has y,y,?
(2)
Case 1A: Alex sees on Andy/Adam
443 / 332 - he holds 442
44x / xyy - he holds 44? (valid case 1)
432 / xy? - he holds 444
44x / xxy - he holds 44y
Case 1B: Alex sees on Andy/Adam
444 / xxy - he holds 4y? (valid case 2)
44x / xyy - he holds 44? (valid case 3)
4xx / xyy - he holds 444
In all the valid cases, if Andy can't distinguish Adam's colors (i.e. GR)
he can never resolve whether his own odd color is G or R. (This may take a
while to assimilate.) So either Andy has no odd color (he holds 444) or at
least one of Adam's is B.
Checking cases:
valid case Adam Alex Andy
1 BG? BRR RR?
Can never be resolved. The ?'s are BG in either order.
3a BBR BGR GGG
3b BBG BGR RRR
3a and 3b are mutually unresolvable.
2a BRR BG? GGG ?=B/R
- also unresolvable.
Case 2b BGG BR? RRR ?=B/G
is resolvable, since Andy can distinguish ?=G from ?=B.
So BGG/BGR/RRR appears to be the solution.
|
1588.3 | | GUESS::DERAMO | Dan D'Eramo, zfc::deramo | Thu Apr 02 1992 19:34 | 13 |
| re .2,
>For the moment, call the actual colors by their frequency, i.e. 4444 333 22.
>
>(1) Adam must be able to see 4444 to be able to draw an inference about two
>of his own colors. (If he sees RRRBBG, for example, both GGG and RBG are
>possible on his own head, so he can only infer one color.)
Adam can also see three each of two of the colors. With
colors A, B, and C, if Adam sees AAABBB then he knows he
has CC?, but he doesn't know which of A or B the ? is.
Dan
|
1588.4 | rrg/bbb/ggb | DESIR::BUCHANAN | | Mon Apr 06 1992 12:04 | 89 |
| Am sees 6 stickers. Let A,B,C denote the three colours.
what Am sees: what Am knows he has: how many Am knows: Verdict:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AABBCC ? 0 Not possible
AAABBC C 1 Not possible
AAAABC BC (& B or C) 2 Possible
AAABBB CC (& A or B) 2 Possible
AAAABB CC (& B or C) 2 Possible
Now look at things from Ax's perspective. Let D,E,F denote the three colours.
From the above reasoning, Am must have (1) DDD or (2) DDE.
Case (1) Am has DDD
If Ax sees Am to have DDD, then he knows from the above, that Ax&Ay share
EEEEFF or EEFFFF.
what Ax sees on Ay: what Ax knows he has: how many Ax knows: Verdict:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EEE EFF 3 Not possible
EEF EEF or FFF 1 Not possible
EFF EEE or EFF 1 Not possible
FFF EEF 3 Not possible
Hence we know that case (2) holds:
Case (2) Am has DDE
Ax knows from the above that Ax&Ay share DEFFFF or EEEFFF or EEFFFF. If Ay
has D, then Ax will know immediately which of the 3 options in the previous line
is correct, and hence by subtraction works out his own 3 stickers. So Ay has
no D:
what Ax sees on Ay: what Ax knows he has: how many Ax knows: Verdict:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EEE FFF 3 Not possible
EEF EFF or FFF 2 Possible
EFF DFF or EEF or EFF 1 Not possible
FFF DEF or EEE or EEF 1 Not possible
Thus in summary, so far from Ax's point of view:
Am has DDE
Ax has FF (and E or F)
Ay has EEF
Now we get to the complex part of Ay.
what DEF correspond to: what Ay sees on Am: what Ay sees on Ax: unique:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
brg bb(rg) gg (and g or (rb)) Y
bgr bb(rg) (rb)(rb) (and g or (rb)) Y
rgb (rg)(rg)(rg) (rb)(rb) (and g or (rb)) N/Y
grb (rg)(rg)(rg) (rb)(rb)(rb) N
rbg (rg)(rg)b gg (and g or (rb)) Y
gbr (rg)(rg)b (rb)(rb)(rb) Y
Ay has EEF. So to know his own colours is equivalent to knowing what D,E,F
each correspond to. The only way that Ay could avoid knowing the colour
correspondence is if he can see:
(rg)(rg)(rg) (rb)(rb)(rb)
which comes from either the third or fourth row.
Both Alex and Adam know the mapping from {D,E,F} to {b,r,g} (since each
can see someone with a "GGH" configuration.) Based on Ay's claim, then Am &
Ax think the following (independently).
what DEF correspond to: what Am knows: what Ax knows: Verdict
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
brg Ay truthful Ay truthful Not possible
bgr Ay truthful Ay truthful Not possible
rgb Ay lying Doesn't know Possible
grb Ay lying Ay lying Not possible
rbg Ay truthful Ay truthful Not possible
gbr Ay truthful Ay truthful Not possible
Thus the only way that Am can know that Ay was lying, whilst Ax doesn't
know is if row 3 is the case. So D,E,F correspond to r,g,b respectively.
Ax has bb and either g or b. We know that Ay *saw* Ax as (rb)(rb)(rb). So
Ax has bbb.
The complete solution is:
Am has rrg, Ax has bbb, Ay has ggb.
The final information, that Ay *can* now identify all the stickers, is
redundant. We could deduce that he now had that power. However, it rounds
of the story dramatically.
yours non-Daltonianly,
Ay.
|
1588.5 | Not so fast there... | CIV009::LYNN | Lynn Yarbrough @WNP DTN 427-5663 | Mon Apr 06 1992 14:20 | 5 |
| >Case (1) Am has DDD
>If Ax sees Am to have DDD, then he knows from the above, that Ax&Ay share
>EEEEFF or EEFFFF.
Why not DEEEFF or DEEFFF?
|
1588.6 | result agrees with EDP's answer in BOGGLERS | DESIR::BUCHANAN | | Tue Apr 07 1992 07:04 | 10 |
| >>Case (1) Am has DDD
>>If Ax sees Am to have DDD, then he knows from the above, that Ax&Ay share
>>EEEEFF or EEFFFF.
>
>Why not DEEEFF or DEEFFF?
Because then Am could know none of his stickers, contrary to his
assertion.
Andrew.
|
1588.7 | | BEING::EDP | Always mount a scratch monkey. | Mon Apr 13 1992 09:24 | 9 |
| Re .4, .6:
Yes, you're answer does agree with the one I got in the Brain Bogglers
conference, so I'll assume your reasoning is correct. It was fun to do
that problem the first time, but I don't relish trying to figure it out
again!
-- edp
|
1588.8 | another | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Oct 27 1994 18:56 | 23 |
| Three men are lined up facing a wall, perpindicular to that wall.
There is a bin with 3 tan hats and 2 black hats. The men are blindfolded
and 3 hats are taken out of the bin and one is placed on each of their
heads. The blindfolds are removed, but each man can only see in front
of himself. The first man is asked what color hat he has on. He sees
the two men in front of him and says, "I do not know what color hat I'm
wearing." The second man is asked the same question and he sees the first
man in front of him and replies, "I do not know what color hat I'm
wearing." The third man is asked and he says, "I *know* what color hat
I'm wearing!"
1. List all possible hat color combinations for the three men as an
ordered triplet (#1,#2,#3).
2. What are the possible combinations after the first man's statement?
3. What are the possible combinations after the second man's statement?
4. What color hat is the third man wearing and why?
If you give up, let me know.
Mike
|
1588.9 | | HANNAH::OSMAN | see HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240 | Fri Oct 28 1994 16:28 | 30 |
|
In order to make this solvable, you have to include these 2 statements:
The 3 men *know* that the starting assortment is 3 tan and 2 black.
The 3 men can hear what each other answers.
The men are arranged like this:
O -> o -> o ->
1 2 3
1 says he doesn't know. If he were looking at 2 black hats, he'd know his was tan.
Hence he's looking at at least 1 tan hat.
After 1 speaks, 2 and 3 both know they're not both wearing black hats.
So, if 2 is looking at a black hat, he'd know his was tan. But says he doesn't
know what his is. Hence 2 is looking at a tan hat.
Now 3 knows he has a tan hat.
(I solved this one years ago, but I don't remember who gave it. Maybe Martin
Gardner in Scientific American magazine?)
/Eric
|
1588.10 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Nov 01 1994 22:57 | 5 |
| That's correct. There are 7 total possible combinations. After #1's
statement, there are 6. After #2's there are 4, with #3 all having a
tan hat.
Mike
|